Open Minded Agnostic Atheist

[Grumblenuts]

I was a big believer in government giving ALL couples the same rights while at the same time being vehemently against government involving itself in marriage.

Cognitive dissonance.

 

[Grumblenuts]

Isn't that odd that most of the people you know don't hold the same religious beliefs that you do?

For the record, when I was a theist, I was very much like you. A very liberal theist.

A liberal is someone in favor of reform, not someone who encourages a traditional way. The way I follow goes back over two thousand years.

Well the way we all remember Christianity 100 years ago is people took the bible literally and they would throw their kids out of the home for being gay. Or tell non christians they are going to hell.

Christians seem a lot more liberal today don't you think? Like gays getting married.

I know that this post was to Meriweather, but I just wanted to say.... true Christianity has not changed. It has never changed.

Just in case this needs to be stated....as politically incorrect as this may be, homosexuality is just as much a sin today as it was 3000 years ago. That has not and will never change.

But since the time of Jesus, we are under the covenant of Grace, which means there is forgiveness for ANY sins, but that forgiveness isn't automatic. What I mean by that is that one must receive it and choose to follow Jesus and live life in a different way...God's way, not the ways of this corrupt, fallen world.

As for how one should take the bible, it's not a one size fits all. The bible is a collection of 66 books, and there are many different types (or genres) of writing. Meriweather and I might part ways on this, but some of it is to be taken literally, and other parts are poetry or parables or figures of speech, etc.

As for evolution, I used to agree with it but I've since realized that evolution is one of the biggest lies ever perpetuated on mankind. So I strongly disagree with Meriweather on that. But I don't want to get sidetracked here, plus I am just popping in from time to time when I have a bit of time.

Horrible.

 

[Meriweather]

Pessimist.

Or someone who adores potato salad.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

But it's without any doubt a correct form of logic.

Right, but anything can be argued using valid logic. Anything at all.

 

[Grumblenuts]

Sealy, it's true. Because they "study" and "believe" they shall always be holier than thou (and me)

 

[Grumblenuts]

But it's without any doubt a correct form of logic.

Right, but anything can be argued using valid logic. Anything at all.

Where do you get that?
It's not "valid" here in any case since the premises are always found to be flawed. And, of course always will be. Else, they won't justify the (wishful) conclusion.

Ah, I see. The "Else," is all you're saying. Indeed. Sorry, never mind then. (walking away.. sheepishly..)

Validity und Soundness!

 

[Meriweather]

Just in case this needs to be stated....as politically incorrect as this may be, homosexuality is just as much a sin today as it was 3000 years ago. That has not and will never change.

To be clear, I agree. However, I still think government should give all couples equal rights.

Yes, I do draw the line at jumping on the band wagon and encouraging people to choose a homosexual lifestyle. The reason for that? First the Bible advises against it. As I happen to be one who thinks the Bible was written by intelligent people and inspired by God, I think they had good reason for stating this. Here is what modern society knows about homosexuality: First it can leave one open to physical ailments. Second, even in places where homosexuality has been accepted for decades, depression and other psychiatric disorders are still prevalent. The question remains, will having a homosexual life partner be the better choice? No guarantees.

Therefore, I think society is out of its collective mind to steer teenagers (worse, children) in this direction. This is an adult decision. We all have free will. All the same, while I don't condemn it, the last thing I do is celebrate homosexuality or encourage people to go ahead with it. Instead, I tell them to consider the risks and whether there may be benefits in foregoing those urges.

 

[BreezeWood]

.
all three desert religions have abandoned the eternal religion of antiquity through deception and the same for those they attempt to sway to their misguided persuasion.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

It's not "valid" here in any case since the premises are always found to be flawed.

No, you have your terms confused. "Valid" logic (arguments) can have false or dubious premises. "Sound" arguments are valid arguments for which the premises are "always true".

Valid argument:

Dogs have 27 legs.
My pet is a dog.
Therefore, my pet has 27 legs.

 

[Grumblenuts]

Jesus was probably gay

..by the way

 

[Grumblenuts]

Man, how'd I miss this bandwagon "encouraging people to choose a homosexual lifestyle." My mom badgered the shit out of my brother and forced him to see psychiatrists for years. A true genius.. he died alone and miserable. Small wonder they don't win the Pollyanna awards, huh! wtf!!?

 

[buttercup]

[ off topic ] I just sat on my only reading glasses, which means that it's really hard to type because I have to hold up my now arm-less glasses with one hand, causing me to have to hunt-and-peck type with my other hand. I guess I'll use the dictation thing until I can go to the store to get new reading glasses. Or just take a break from this site for a while. [ / off topic ]

 

[ding]

You can't be an agnostic atheist.

I would say you are an agnostic secularist

• Atheist - There is no god.
• Nihilistic - Life has no meaning.
• Secular - Lack of religion.
• Agnostic - There may or may not be a god, but open to know more.
• Gnostic - Belief that the God (or gods) we worship are in fact evil tricksters and that a secret knowledge is preventing us from the true God.
• Animistic - Belief that all things contain spirits.
• Deist - There is a God who created life, but just watches and does not intervene.
• Theist - Belief in a higher power and at least one god.
• Polytheist - Belief in more than one god.
• Monotheist -believing in a single God - ie. Judaism, Christianity, and Islam.
• Apostate - A person who leaves a religion.
• Misotheist - A person that hates God or the Gods.
• Dustheism - Belief that God or the Gods are not totally good.
• Macioism - Belief that God is a Demiurge and wrathful, malicious evil creator. Similar to Gnostic.
• Euthesim - Belief in a totally good God.

What do you mean life has meaning? What is the meaning? What is our purpose? I think we could master the universe if we weren’t so primitive. Still warring with each other rather than working as one planet to get to mars and mine the meteor belt. Then build a ship the size of a planet that can also survive interstellar travel. Then we might have a purpose.

If we stay on this Rock eventually we will die of some natural cause. The planet will still have other creatures who survive this mass global extinction but even they too will die when the water goes or the sun burns out. If we go with the planet, what was our purpose?

We are a way for the universe to know itself. Amazing.

There is no purpose to life.

And if the universe is trying to know itself through humans it could do better since we only have an understanding of about 5% of it.

Sure there is... to become the best version of yourself and to pass it on. There's your meaning.

Simply put, evolution is when anything moves from a less advanced state to a more advanced state; a less complex state to a more complex state. Since the beginning of time matter has evolved and will continue to do so. Your purpose, your meaning in life is to evolve in consciousness and pass it on to the next generation.

That's your meaning.

You have no business telling my what mine is.

According to you, you don’t have one, right?

But according to Darwin the meaning of life is to pass down functional advantage to the next generation.

No not really

I know that what I do here while I'm alive will have little effect in the grand scheme of things.

And again that's Darwin and he has no more right to tell me what my purpose is than you do.

The human race has been here for but a blink in cosmological time and less than a minute in the earth's geological time.

We will be gone in but another few blinks of time as far as the cosmos is concerned.

Nothing anyone has ever done or will ever do will matter.

Yep, you're a nihilist alright.

As i said.

You have a fatalistic attitude, my friend.

I know.

Better a realist than some naive idealistic Pollyanna

No. A realist isn't a fatalist. A realist does not believe that life is without meaning. A realists accepts situations as they are and deals with them. Whereas a fatalist believes nothing matters (i.e. life is without meaning).

realist: a person who accepts a situation as it is and is prepared to deal with it accordingly.

fatalist: a person who believes all events are predetermined and therefore inevitable.

nihilist: a person who believes that life is meaningless.

I'm not a fatalist I do not think anything is predetermined. In fact I am just the opposite as I think events are totally random and chaotic.

And I can be a realist and a nihilist as the 2 are not mutually exclusive.

A realist is not able to say "everything is an illusion". Something has to produce this illusion. Cogito ergo sum.

In fact I do accept things the way they and deal with the way things are on a daily basis but in the really big picture I can also accept that those same things are meaningless

It's meaningless to say things are meaningless. Nothing what's real is unimportant. A minimal cause is able to produce a maximal effect. Example: A mutation of a virus starts a pandemic.

Where did I ever use the word "illusion"?

You used the word "nihilist" and a nihilist thinks everything is an illusion - that's why it is meaningless what we think and do.

And all that man does, feels, thinks or believes in the cosmic scope is meaningless.

So you are a nihilist - but not a realist. To be a realist excludes it to be a nihilist.

No a nihilist thinks life is meaningless.

Definition of NIHILISM

a viewpoint that traditional values and beliefs are unfounded and that existence is senseless and useless; a doctrine that denies any objective ground of truth and especially of moral truths… See the full definition

www.merriam-webster.com

You'll notice in the definition there is nothing about nihilism thinking life is an illusion.

So yes I can think life is meaningless and therefore be a nihilist and I can also be a realist and accept things the way they are

Nihilism | Internet Encyclopedia of Philosophy

www.iep.utm.edu

It is often associated with extreme pessimism and a radical skepticismthat condemns existence. A true nihilist would believe in nothing, have no loyalties, and no purpose other than, perhaps, an impulse to destroy.

The impulse to destroy is your interpretation.

I have no impulse to destroy anything. I do not condemn existence I just know that it the cosmic scope of things our lives are meaningless.

And yes I am an extreme cynic and pessimist. I would rather expect something bad to happen and be ready for it ( realist) than expect only good things to happen and then be sucker punched by the bad shit.

Good fortune is nothing but random luck just like tragedy is nothing but random bad luck.

There is no meaning in the good or bad that happens to anyone.

I disagree with one thing. There is Sometimes more to Good fortune than just luck. It also takes effort and talent.

Take for example my brother is a vp for a Fortune 500. He agrees luck played a part but he also worked very hard and was good at what he did.

But then there’s the person who just buys a lottery ticket and they become a millionaire.

Oh, so you believe a cynic and a pessimist is a realist then?

Sounds like that who's on first bit. Oh so you're a pessimist then? Based on something I said. Then I say something else and you say, "oh then you're a cynic? And I say well yea but and I explain more and you say, "oh now you're a realist?

I don't care much which one I am at any particular moment. Sometimes I think the world is going to hell and sometimes I think it's heaven. Yea, you can be more than one of these things or one day be one and the next another. Sure. Why not?

I didn't ask you what you were. I asked you if you believe a cynic and a pessimist is a realist because by definition they are mutually exclusive. Now if if you want to argue that people are different things at different times, sure.

But someone who says they are a realist while being cynical and pessimistic is full of shit.

 

[ding]

View attachment 346571

We all know you don’t agree with the black Christian community on this issue. How is it they read the same holy book you do yet you disagree so much on black lives matter?

I loved it when people started attacking colin kaepernick for his protesting of how his people were being treated.

We know you loved attacking kappernick

Now of course I'm not talking about all black people but when us whites say we don't want blacks moving into our communities, this is the reason why.

So I'm in the Tim Horton drive thru and this black girl is not in line but decides without even acknowledging me she was going to cut in line in front of me so I honk at her. Instead of gesturing to me that she's sorry or to say thanks for letting her cut in front, she flips me off and says FUCK YOU! So I flip her off and I say some things when she's ordering like, "hey honey do you need me to pay for you? Because you don't look like you can afford it, you stupid ugly bitch".

Just as she's leaving, I honk one more time flip her off and say FUCK YOU BITCH! She backs up and rams her car into mine. Not hard, and I already have damage to the front of my car so she didn't cause any damage, but my question is, "who fucking does that?" Are black people uncivilized? Are they unable to use their words? She could have just said fuck you back and drove off. But the animal in her made her back up and ram me.

Hey black people. Do you know how to act out in public? You think you can just cut in front of someone and not even acknowledge them? But that's not even a big deal. A white person could do that too. The amazing thing is that she had the animal instinct to back up and ram me. I wish so bad I could have fucked her up.

And why the chip on the shoulder? Why so angry? Why so ready to flip me off rather than say sorry or excuse me? Rude fucking bitch! I should have chased her down and called the cops because you just know she didn't have insurance or registration. And she would have given them attitude and probably ended up hanging herself 3 days later in jail. See, this is what happens to blacks when they run into cops. They get into altercations like this only with cops and the cop doesn't have to let it go like I do.

And you know if I would have rammed into her car she would have called the cops. Does she think she has immunity? Is DWB a good thing now?

Hey black people. Don't come out to our neighborhood if you don't like white people and you have a ghetto mentality. Or at least don't be surprised that we don't want you. I know you will say you don't care, but we all know you do.

And I know you are a protected species right now but everyone at work says I should have pulled her out of the car and beat the shit out of her. I would never go to Detroit and be disrespectful to black people. I'd get my ass kicked.

This is why blacks are getting shot by cops. Blacks simply do not know how to act.

And I bet you that her attitude intimidates a lot of whites but it didn't me. I went back at her just as loud as she did me. Fuck me? No fuck you bitch!

Doesn't mean I don't stand with the black community. Do I want ghetto blacks with chips on their shoulders or who are criminals moving out of Detroit and into the white suburbs? No I don't. That's another discussion for another day. I don't think the black community is perfect but I at least understand why it is what it is. You blame black people, I blame sestemic racism perpetrated by you white conservatives.

I want affirmative action and diversity programs, you don't. That's a huge difference between you and me. I may have dogged that black woman who acted like a bitch and shown my racism but I didn't say anything you haven't thought to yourself. If I'm wrong, why don't you go reopen that Tim Horton thread and defend her. Let me see you be a voice for black people. I bet you can't fake it anymore than you fake being a real christian. We will all see right through you ding.

And on that thread, I'll admit it when you show me I said something racist. And I'll apologize. But we know you don't really side with black people, ever. For example were you for Trevon or Zimmerman?


And I don't want cops killing them when they pull them over.

I will say this. Cops singling out black men in the suburbs of Detroit is why black criminals don't venture outside the city. They are afraid of dwb. I don't mind cops running plates and seeing that the person is from the city and following them. But don't pull them over and kill them for "bwb".

I think you are full of shit. I think you are an idealouge who's only concern is promoting the Democrat Party.

And you don't know what I think, buddy.

 

[ding]

View attachment 346571

We all know you don’t agree with the black Christian community on this issue. How is it they read the same holy book you do yet you disagree so much on black lives matter?

I loved it when people started attacking colin kaepernick for his protesting of how his people were being treated.

We know you loved attacking kappernick

Now of course I'm not talking about all black people but when us whites say we don't want blacks moving into our communities, this is the reason why.

So I'm in the Tim Horton drive thru and this black girl is not in line but decides without even acknowledging me she was going to cut in line in front of me so I honk at her. Instead of gesturing to me that she's sorry or to say thanks for letting her cut in front, she flips me off and says FUCK YOU! So I flip her off and I say some things when she's ordering like, "hey honey do you need me to pay for you? Because you don't look like you can afford it, you stupid ugly bitch".

Just as she's leaving, I honk one more time flip her off and say FUCK YOU BITCH! She backs up and rams her car into mine. Not hard, and I already have damage to the front of my car so she didn't cause any damage, but my question is, "who fucking does that?" Are black people uncivilized? Are they unable to use their words? She could have just said fuck you back and drove off. But the animal in her made her back up and ram me.

Hey black people. Do you know how to act out in public? You think you can just cut in front of someone and not even acknowledge them? But that's not even a big deal. A white person could do that too. The amazing thing is that she had the animal instinct to back up and ram me. I wish so bad I could have fucked her up.

And why the chip on the shoulder? Why so angry? Why so ready to flip me off rather than say sorry or excuse me? Rude fucking bitch! I should have chased her down and called the cops because you just know she didn't have insurance or registration. And she would have given them attitude and probably ended up hanging herself 3 days later in jail. See, this is what happens to blacks when they run into cops. They get into altercations like this only with cops and the cop doesn't have to let it go like I do.

And you know if I would have rammed into her car she would have called the cops. Does she think she has immunity? Is DWB a good thing now?

Hey black people. Don't come out to our neighborhood if you don't like white people and you have a ghetto mentality. Or at least don't be surprised that we don't want you. I know you will say you don't care, but we all know you do.

And I know you are a protected species right now but everyone at work says I should have pulled her out of the car and beat the shit out of her. I would never go to Detroit and be disrespectful to black people. I'd get my ass kicked.

This is why blacks are getting shot by cops. Blacks simply do not know how to act.

And I bet you that her attitude intimidates a lot of whites but it didn't me. I went back at her just as loud as she did me. Fuck me? No fuck you bitch!

Repeatedly repeating posts without comment other than "

"?
Dragging someone's posts in from elsewhere?
Could one ignore forum rules and behave more like a troll?
Maybe Jits, I doubt it though.
OMG, look, sealy lost his shit and posted racist road rage 4 years ago!
Others currently posting far worse on this MB every damned day..
What, where's ding?
No ding? Really?

Ahem,

Don't feed it.

Don't forget my siggie.

Grumblenuts intentionally denies examination because he is irrational. There is no formal defined socialism of Grumblenuts. Instead there is only a vague, rosy notion of something good, noble and just from Grumblenuts beliefs: the advent of these things will bring instant euphoria and a social order beyond reproach. Grumblenuts seeks equality through uniformity and communal ownership. Grumblenuts has an extraordinary ability to be inspired, incited and inflamed by social movements. Grumblenuts dismisses his defeats and ignores his incongruities. Grumblenuts desires big government and wants big government to implement his morally relativistic social policies. Grumblenuts dogma is based on materialism, primitive instincts, atheism and the deification of man. He sees no distinction between good and evil, no morality or any other kind of value, save pleasure. Grumblenuts practices moral relativity, indiscriminate indiscriminateness, multiculturalism, cultural Marxism and normalization of deviance. Grumblenuts worships science but is the first to reject it when it suits his purpose. Grumblenuts can be identified by an external locus of control. Grumblenuts religious doctrine is abolition of private property, abolition of family, abolition of religion and equality via uniformity and communal ownership. Grumblenuts practices critical theory which is the Cultural Marxist theory to criticize what he does not believe to arrive at what he does believe without ever having to examine what he believes. Grumblenuts confuses critical theory for critical thinking. Critical thinking is the practice of challenging what one does believe to test its validity. Something Grumblenuts never does.

You've lost it.

The beauty of it is that it totally describes him. And you too.

 

[ding]

View attachment 346571

We all know you don’t agree with the black Christian community on this issue. How is it they read the same holy book you do yet you disagree so much on black lives matter?

I loved it when people started attacking colin kaepernick for his protesting of how his people were being treated.

We know you loved attacking kappernick

Now of course I'm not talking about all black people but when us whites say we don't want blacks moving into our communities, this is the reason why.

So I'm in the Tim Horton drive thru and this black girl is not in line but decides without even acknowledging me she was going to cut in line in front of me so I honk at her. Instead of gesturing to me that she's sorry or to say thanks for letting her cut in front, she flips me off and says FUCK YOU! So I flip her off and I say some things when she's ordering like, "hey honey do you need me to pay for you? Because you don't look like you can afford it, you stupid ugly bitch".

Just as she's leaving, I honk one more time flip her off and say FUCK YOU BITCH! She backs up and rams her car into mine. Not hard, and I already have damage to the front of my car so she didn't cause any damage, but my question is, "who fucking does that?" Are black people uncivilized? Are they unable to use their words? She could have just said fuck you back and drove off. But the animal in her made her back up and ram me.

Hey black people. Do you know how to act out in public? You think you can just cut in front of someone and not even acknowledge them? But that's not even a big deal. A white person could do that too. The amazing thing is that she had the animal instinct to back up and ram me. I wish so bad I could have fucked her up.

And why the chip on the shoulder? Why so angry? Why so ready to flip me off rather than say sorry or excuse me? Rude fucking bitch! I should have chased her down and called the cops because you just know she didn't have insurance or registration. And she would have given them attitude and probably ended up hanging herself 3 days later in jail. See, this is what happens to blacks when they run into cops. They get into altercations like this only with cops and the cop doesn't have to let it go like I do.

And you know if I would have rammed into her car she would have called the cops. Does she think she has immunity? Is DWB a good thing now?

Hey black people. Don't come out to our neighborhood if you don't like white people and you have a ghetto mentality. Or at least don't be surprised that we don't want you. I know you will say you don't care, but we all know you do.

And I know you are a protected species right now but everyone at work says I should have pulled her out of the car and beat the shit out of her. I would never go to Detroit and be disrespectful to black people. I'd get my ass kicked.

This is why blacks are getting shot by cops. Blacks simply do not know how to act.

And I bet you that her attitude intimidates a lot of whites but it didn't me. I went back at her just as loud as she did me. Fuck me? No fuck you bitch!

Go back to that thread and show me where you stood up against me in defense of black people. Secretly you agree with me most likely on my bigotted views. Us Liberals aren't impervious to being bigots. We can be prejudice too you know. Just not more than you.

Show me where I supported you. You don't know what I think.

You showed your true colors and got called out. Own it.

 

[BreezeWood]

View attachment 346571

We all know you don’t agree with the black Christian community on this issue. How is it they read the same holy book you do yet you disagree so much on black lives matter?

I loved it when people started attacking colin kaepernick for his protesting of how his people were being treated.

We know you loved attacking kappernick

Now of course I'm not talking about all black people but when us whites say we don't want blacks moving into our communities, this is the reason why.

So I'm in the Tim Horton drive thru and this black girl is not in line but decides without even acknowledging me she was going to cut in line in front of me so I honk at her. Instead of gesturing to me that she's sorry or to say thanks for letting her cut in front, she flips me off and says FUCK YOU! So I flip her off and I say some things when she's ordering like, "hey honey do you need me to pay for you? Because you don't look like you can afford it, you stupid ugly bitch".

Just as she's leaving, I honk one more time flip her off and say FUCK YOU BITCH! She backs up and rams her car into mine. Not hard, and I already have damage to the front of my car so she didn't cause any damage, but my question is, "who fucking does that?" Are black people uncivilized? Are they unable to use their words? She could have just said fuck you back and drove off. But the animal in her made her back up and ram me.

Hey black people. Do you know how to act out in public? You think you can just cut in front of someone and not even acknowledge them? But that's not even a big deal. A white person could do that too. The amazing thing is that she had the animal instinct to back up and ram me. I wish so bad I could have fucked her up.

And why the chip on the shoulder? Why so angry? Why so ready to flip me off rather than say sorry or excuse me? Rude fucking bitch! I should have chased her down and called the cops because you just know she didn't have insurance or registration. And she would have given them attitude and probably ended up hanging herself 3 days later in jail. See, this is what happens to blacks when they run into cops. They get into altercations like this only with cops and the cop doesn't have to let it go like I do.

And you know if I would have rammed into her car she would have called the cops. Does she think she has immunity? Is DWB a good thing now?

Hey black people. Don't come out to our neighborhood if you don't like white people and you have a ghetto mentality. Or at least don't be surprised that we don't want you. I know you will say you don't care, but we all know you do.

And I know you are a protected species right now but everyone at work says I should have pulled her out of the car and beat the shit out of her. I would never go to Detroit and be disrespectful to black people. I'd get my ass kicked.

This is why blacks are getting shot by cops. Blacks simply do not know how to act.

And I bet you that her attitude intimidates a lot of whites but it didn't me. I went back at her just as loud as she did me. Fuck me? No fuck you bitch!

Go back to that thread and show me where you stood up against me in defense of black people. Secretly you agree with me most likely on my bigotted views. Us Liberals aren't impervious to being bigots. We can be prejudice too you know. Just not more than you.

Show me where I supported you. You don't know what I think.

You showed your true colors and got called out. Own it.

Show me where I supported you. You don't know what I think.

.
oh,

Socialism intentionally denies examination because it is irrational. ...

you have it tattooed all over yourself - - just an honest observation from someone who cares ... and christianity is not irrational in the least. for a believer. bing.

 

[zaangalewa]

New Age - for buttercup's reference

Again. Agnosticism is a philosophy. Atheims is is a belief

No. Again. Atheism is lack of "belief" - period!
"bye bye"
Bubbye!

no comment

 

[zaangalewa]

... Now I understand. What you are saying is that atheism is just my belief, and it is real, and to a theist, their religion is real to them? Yes, I agree. Spirituality is a feeling people get and it is very much real. Forgive me you are right about that.

Now you understand my problem with atheists. The problem is not atheism per se. Faith is a thing which comes from god - so it's only a little sad, if someone did not get this gift. The problem is the growing number of "artificial" atheists - you are an excellent example on your own for this "species" - who think their way to think is the only possible way. But there are many ways - while the same time not everything is a way. Your "open minded" looks in my eyes more "narrow minded" and when you fight then you fight against chimeras and not against real problems.

Why there is no god

Responses to common theist arguments

whynogod.wordpress.com

The existence and non-existence of a god are not equally probable outcomes. The majority of things we can possibly imagine do not exist.

But existence exists. Why? Nothing in this world here is able to create existence. (Energy is not able to be created or to be destroyed. It is only able to be transformed.) So what is your god "empirism" working with in this context, if it compares "the creator" with a human idea which is not materialistic existing within creation? We are not able to leave the created world and to take a look there!

Thus, belief is not as valid a position as skepticism when dealing with unsupported or unfalsifiable claims. Agnostic atheism is the most rational position.

Again. Agnosticism is a philosophy. Atheism is a belief and as a belief one of the results of the philosophy agnosticism. You are an atheist = a believer in atheism, who does not like to know what the philosophy agnosticism is.

And now "bye bye". I will not answer any longer. To discuss in never ending circles is a kind of prototype of sin. For me it was totally senseless to try to speak with you.

I agree. You seem senseless to me too. If you want to prove your god is real you'll have to get better at it and try again later.

Can you tell us why existence exists? Why? You know why? Well then WHY? Please enlighten us. And don't talk in foreign riddles. Speak plain english.

I can tell you a lot about how existence exists. You know, the big bang, dark matter vs regular matter. How stars formed from gas, blew up and flung their inners out into the universe where they created planets around newer younger stars. Blablabla. It's all in The Cosmos. They explain as much as science can explain.

But they also admit there are things they don't know. And I'm sure you are asking the questions that they can't answer. But just because they don't know doesn't mean god exists. That's God of the Gaps. Ever hear of it?

I love it. Your religion tells you that it's a sin to talk to an atheist for too long. LOL. Are they afraid I might shake your faith? Are you afraid?

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[zaangalewa]

But it's without any doubt a correct form of logic.

Right, but anything can be argued using valid logic. Anything at all.

No. What you would know if you had read, what I had written here about the philosophy agnosticism. We are not able to think or to say god exists and not exists the same time - although god could really exist and not exist the same time. On the other side: God is not a liar. That's why reality is indeed reality and we do not live in a matrix; Life is real.