Orthodox Christianity, False Teachers, Faith, and Reason

[Foxfyre]

Having had, in recent weeks, some interesting, mostly cordial but also a few contentious exchanges over matters of faith:

I have to believe that those who are convinced that others of us are false teachers, false witnesses, false prophets are speaking from sincere conviction.

I have to believe those who are convinced that others of us are headed straight for hell are speaking from sincere conviction.

I have to believe that those who are convinced that some of the rest of us are not 'saved' are speaking from sincere conviction.

I have to believe the fundamentalists and Bible literalists who are convinced that other interpretations are error, heresy, and/or evil are speaking from sincere conviction.

I have to believe the agnostics and non-religious who enjoy joining in religious discussions are sincere in their interest.

And I have to believe the Atheist, non-religionist, non-believer who come to religious threads are also speaking from conviction, at least conviction they want validated.

So. . . .

So are those who cannot put their intellect, reason, and logic aside in matters of belief, conscience, faith, and their understanding of the Scriptures all to be considered infidels? Delusional? Heretics? False prophets? False teachers? False witnesses?

Is there no room for differences of opinion? Different interpretations? Different understandings? To believe something that doesn't jive with our childhood teachings? Must we all believe exactly the same in order to be orthodox or the real deal or to love or worship the one true God?

I am of the school that faith, from whatever tradition, is blessed and used by God. And I also believe our intelligence, our ability to study and understand, to research, to embrace deeper truths, to reason and apply logical conclusions to evidence are also gifts of God that can bless us and will be used for his purposes. We do not have to put logic, common sense, and the evidence before us on the back burner in order to be children of God.

It is that last concept that I would like to discuss - cordially and without rancor please - in this thread.

In the words of the prophet Isaiah, "Come let us reason together."

But fox, what you ask for works only if one portion of those you described puts their beliefs on the back burner to accommodate others' opinions. Our belief includes not doing that. Christians aren't called to compromise their positions so as to consider the beliefs of others, or even to tell you, "To each his own". For us, in this area, it is the opposite. We believe your life depends on Christ.

When John the Baptist was in the dungeon screaming at the top of his lungs for the King to leave his brother's wife alone, it CERTAINLY wasn't for John's benefit. His concern was for the man that was about to cut John's head off. It is that important to us.

I could say to you, faith, in any form is all good. Or that as long as you believe in something that's all that matters, and if it works for you, God will honor it. The school that taught you that did you a grave disservice. The Biblical God never, never included faith in idol worship, or any other God before Him as acceptable, no matter how strong your faith in the idol is. According to you, those who believe that the sun is God, will be blessed by the Biblical God of Abraham for their trust in sunshine. (if that's the God you are referring to as the one who will accept any form of faith) The opposite is true. He will leave your fate to the sun.

Christians are followers of Christ, We are called to inform the world of His faith in us. Not the other way around. On any other subject I would welcome any knowledge you have to offer. When it comes to your salvation however, I can't be compelled to consider any other alternative except that which places your eternal soul safely in the hands of our Father. You're my sister. I'm rigid in that regard.

But Irish, whatever gave you the idea that I EVER said that the "Sun is God?" Or that it was okay to believe that? Or that it is okay to believe whatever you wish? What did I say that gave that impression? I need to know so I am careful not to say it again.

I can say absolutely with strong conviction that the Son is God because he said that he was. So if he is not, then Jesus of Nazareth was delusional and a false prophet himself and faith in him would be of no value to anybody.

At the same time, I can't believe that God would condemn somebody because their belief is that Jesus was divine and the messiah and by his life, death, and resurrection he offers us eternal life - BUT - the Christ is a separate being from the Father. So whether we believe One God in three persons, or three persons = one God, I just don't think God puts a great deal of importance on such technicalities.

Such concepts--especially those of doctrines of the Trinity--tore the church asunder for centuries. Obviously, if you read the words of Chuckt and Jeremiah here, such technicalities still do.

I am of the school that I put my life and future in Jesus's hands and trust him to do what is best with that. And, as he leads, I am given opportunity to introduce him to others who need to know how much he loves them and the eternal life that he offers.

And he sometimes finds the dangest ways to make that happen. I am not given authority to save anybody. Just license to arrange the meeting with somebody who is.

But where you and I might find an area to amicably fuss about, is whether that Sun (sun not son) worshipper or others who do not yet know the living Christ are blessed by God. Are loved by God. Regardless of their beliefs at the time, God has sure called a lot of really wierd and strange people into his service. I like to think I am one of them.

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

The terms of friendship is that relationships are reciprocol or complimentary.

God commanded, “love thy neighbor as thyself”. He did not put any stipulations on it. It would be a selfish God who would command we love only those who reciprocate their love. I interpret the commandment to mean love thy fellow man in the sense we value and appreciate our fellow beings.

I would appreciate your input, FoxFire. Count me in as one who very much enjoys reading your thoughts on these subjects.

It does not surprise me that you seek out fellowship with Foxfyre and applaud his teachings, as a man is known by the company he keeps, Pacer. The workers of darkness prefer fellowship one with another just as the saints of God prefer each others company.

Pacer, The Holy Spirit pointed you out to me some time ago - that you are one such as Bar Jesus whom the Apostle Paul did rebuke openly in Acts 13: 9,10. By your own writings on this board you have openly denied the Lord Jesus Christ, mocked God and the Written Word of God, denied the very existence of God according to Scripture, stood in the way of others who desired to hear the Gospel of Jesus Christ and now come onto this thread presenting yourself as an angel of light!

Truly the pit you and those like you have dug for others on this board is the very one you, yourselves shall fall into. So be forewarned.... If you should decide to go forth with provoking the LORD to anger by these actions of yours, the Prophet Ezekiel has a warning that is for all who do what you have done and are even now doing:

It is written:

He said to me, "Son of man, stand up on your feet and I will speak to you." As he spoke, the Spirit came into me and raised me to my feet, and I heard him speaking to me.

He said, Son of man, I am sending you to the Israelites, to a rebellious nation that has rebelled against me, they and their fathers have been in revolt against me to this very day. The people to whom I am sending you are obstinate, stubborn, Say to them, This is what the Sovereign LORD says, And whether they listen or fail to listen - for they are a rebellious house - they will know full well a prophet has been among them. And you, son of man, do not be afraid of them or their words. Do not be afraid, though briers and thorns are all around you and you live among scorpions. Do not be afraid of what they say or terrified by them, though they are a rebellious house. You must speak my words to them, whether they listen or fail to listen, for they are rebellious. - Ezekiel 2: 1 - 7

And again,

It is written:

He then said to me: Son of man, go now to the house of Israel and speak my words to them. You are not being sent to a people of obscure speech and difficult language, but to the house of Israel - not to many peoples of obscure speech and difficult language,whose words you cannot understand, Surely if I had sent you to them, they would have listened to you. But the house of Israel is not willing to listen to you because they are not willing to listen to me, for the whole house of Israel is hardened and obstinate. But I will make you unyielding and hardened as they are. I will make your forehead like flint. Do not be afraid of them or terrified by them, though they are a rebellious house.

And he said to me, Son of man, listen carefully and take to heart all the words I speak to you. Go now to your countrymen in exile and speak to them, Say to them, This is what the Sovereign LORD says, whether they listen or fail to listen. - Ezekiel 3: 4-11

And here now is the warning to the House of Israel and to this Jew who like Bar Jesus opposes the Gospel of Jesus Christ and has yet to realize he is not striving against a man nor a woman but rather the Spirit of God Almighty!!

It is written,

Son of man, I have set thee as a watchman for the house of Israel, so hear the word I speak and give them this warning from me.

When I say to a wicked man, You shall surely die, and you do not warn him or speak out to dissuade him from his evil ways in order to save his life, that wicked man shall die for his sin, and I will hold you accountable for his blood.

But if you warn the wicked man and he does not turn from his evil ways, he will die for his sin but you will have saved yourself.

Again, when a righteous man turns from his righteousness and does evil, and I put a stumbling block before him, he will die. Since you did not warn him, he will die for his sin. The righteous things he did will not be remembered, and I will hold you accountable for his blood. But if you do warn the righteous man not to sin and he does not sin, he will surely live because he took the warning and you will have saved yourself. Ezekiel 3:17-21


Now I say to you, Pacer, turn from your wickedness and live. Repent and the Lord shall forgive you.

And to Foxfyre, I will give this final warning about one who turns from the Lord and spreads false teachings to those who are unaware of the craftiness that is being used to lure them in.. turn from your sin now and repent unto the Lord and he shall be merciful and forgive you.

I have delivered the warning and know that the Lord will not hold me accountable for whatever transpires after this.

My prayer is that both of you will heed this warning from the Lord, repent and be saved.

- Karen

I want to make sure both of you have read this.

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

I wonder how many people have refused or turned away from accepting Jesus the Christ because of the hateful or unpleasant way he was introduced to them? I rather think telling folks they are unacceptable or vipers or are headed straight to hell is not the best way to gain their interest.

So true.

So now you are both judging Jesus Christ for telling the Pharisees they were vipers, white washed tombs and children of the devil. Those were the words of Jesus Christ I quoted. Not my own. Wow!!

You accuse Jesus Christ in order to justify yourselves in spreading false teachings. You are both unbelievable. ( quite literally! )

 

[Foxfyre]

But I ask again, where do those who accuse you (and me and others) of being false teachers, false prophets, false witnesses get their authority to do so? I have asked several times now in various ways, and nobody seems to be willing to address that.

Without a following, there would be no need for a teacher. Therefore, I believe it is the following which determines the authority and can take it away. As for determining who the false teachers/false prophets may be, I believe it is an individual determination. I would be more interested in reading your views on this subject.

Oh no. Not letting you off the hook. I am no authority--just ask Chuckt --because I haven't written 50 books and I haven't founded Christian universities. Okay I'm being facetious as I sometimes am when confronted by such concepts.

I do believe the flock will follow the true shepherd; those who hunger for knowledge will seek out the true teacher; and the true witness will attract a following . . . .but. . . .

David Koresh had an impressive following, but I do not believe what he taught to be God's gospel.

Jim Jones had a mega church that he built from scratch, but who among us would not say that he was a cult leader and was not teaching God's gospel.

Those who have acquired followings but who should never be followed are legion.

The Apostle Paul, giving wise counsel, strongly warned his flock about giving their allegiance to this leader or that leader or of claiming to be disciples of Paul or of Apollos or of Peter etc. Even when the allegiance was to him personally, he saw danger in exalting a leader to the point that he overshadowed the living Christ. The Judaizers, the Gnostics, and others of Paul's day all had followings and were determined to uproot and destroy the gospel Paul himself preached.

I believe God raises up teachers, leaders, missionaries, prophets, and other workers in the Kingdom. And some of these teach us and inspire us and we admire them greatly. But we must be ever careful not to make idols out of them.

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

In wrapping things up here, I will close on the scriptures the Lord gave me earlier..
It is written:
Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God, He that abideth in the doctrines of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son. 3 John 1:9

Throughout this thread you will see that Chuck and I have been abiding in and defending the doctrine of Christ while the enemies of Christ have not abided in the doctrines of Christ nor defended them but rather accused Chuck of not walking in love because he used the truth of scripture to prove their doctrine was not of Christ ( Satan is the accuser of the brethren - which is why these men attacked Chuck ) yet the truth is that God is love.

God hated Esau but loved Jacob he loved. What shall we say of this? Is God evil? Does not the scriptures declare God is love? Yes, in 1 John 4: 8. And Jesus called the Pharisees who opposed him, serpents, white washed tombs, Liars, brood of vipers and what are we to say of Jesus Christ? Does not the bible teach us to walk as Jesus walked? Was he not walking in Love by telling the children of the devil they were the children of the devil? And Paul called Simon Bar Jesus, the Jew who opposed the Gospel of Jesus Christ a child of the devil, full of all subtilty and all mischief and enemy of all righteousness who never ceased to pervert the right ways of the Lord! Was the Apostle Paul not walking in love? Ha! Ha! Of course he was! God never told any us to deny the truth! If you see a false teacher rebuke him to his face and know that God is fully pleased with your doing so!

Listen, Gods Word is very clear as to who and what a false teacher is! They are exactly what Chuck pointed out in this thread! Not hold to the doctrines of Jesus Christ! They do not hold fast to the Doctrine of Christ! Foxfyre does NOT teach the doctrines of Christ. Pacer does NOT teach the doctrines of Christ. That is all the evidence you need!

What does the bible teach us about this?

It is written:

Whosoever transgresseth,. and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath the father and the son. If someone isn't teaching the doctrines of Christ you are not supposed to receive that person into your house nor are you to bid him Gods speed! Don't believe it? Have a look at this!

It is written:

If there come any unto you and bring not this doctrine ( the doctrine of Christ ) receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed.
For he that biddeth him God speed is a partaker of his evil deeds. - 3 John 1: 10


So how can you identify a false teacher? They don't teach the doctrines of Christ. What should you do with a false teacher? Stay away from them. Do not receive such a person into your house. Should you bid him God's speed? No. The bible warns you do not bid him Gods speed or you will be a partaker of his evil deeds. Stay away from such men, O Christian!

Jesus said, Come out from among them and be ye separated. Let us obey the Lord.

 

[pacer]

I believe God raises up teachers, leaders, missionaries, prophets, and other workers in the Kingdom. And some of these teach us and inspire us and we admire them greatly. But we must be ever careful not to make idols out of them.

You are obviously a wonderful teacher. How did you recognize your calling?

 

[pacer]

I can say absolutely with strong conviction that the Son is God because he said that he was. So if he is not, then Jesus of Nazareth was delusional and a false prophet himself and faith in him would be of no value to anybody.

Jesus may have inferred he was the Son of God depending on ones interpretation but he never actually said it. What is your opinion. Here are a few of the passages.

There are many occasions on which Jesus states his identity with God.
1. John 8:51-59 Jesus says

John 8:58 (NIV) "Before Abraham was, I am"

This is a clear reference to the name of God. Even if there were any doubt that this is the reference the reaction of the Pharisees clearly indicates that (in their eyes) this is a blasphemous claim.

2. Matthew 9:1-7 Jesus claims to forgive sins, which the local officials (correctly) believed to be the perogative of God only.

3. Thomas the apostle calls Jesus "My Lord and My God", which Jesus does not correct or deny.

4. Also, we see this in John

John 14:9b, 10a (NIV)

... Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father... Don’t you believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in me?

5. Matthew 26:63-64

The high priest said to him, “I charge you under oath by the living God: Tell us if you are the Messiah, the Son of God.” “You have said so,” Jesus replied.

Does Jesus ever claim to be God, or the son of God? - Christianity Stack Exchange

 

[Foxfyre]

I believe God raises up teachers, leaders, missionaries, prophets, and other workers in the Kingdom. And some of these teach us and inspire us and we admire them greatly. But we must be ever careful not to make idols out of them.

You are obviously a wonderful teacher. How did you recognize your calling?

Well thank you. When I was in highschool, at a Christian mountain youth camp, I committed my life to full time Christian service. I figured that meant I had to go to Africa and preach to pygmies or something, but my life has taken a very different direction.

I went on to college, got married, had kids, and at times thought God had let me off the hook about all that. But nope. I kept finding myself driven for more education, more instruction, and found myself in the unlikeliest situations that I could both learn and research and write and I was also given a gift and opportunity to teach which I loved. At one point I was given the opportunity to travel much of the country leading workshops and seminars on Christian communications. And give my personal testimony.

The wierd thing is that except for about three years or so, none of this was with the church denomination where I had my church membership. I've worked with the Baptists, the charismatic groups, Methodists, Episcopalians, Roman Catholics, and Presbyterians. None of them held it against me that I wasn't one of 'them' but indeed knew that we were all brothers and sisters in Christ.

And a whole lot of it was also when I was technically employed in secular jobs but it turned out God was there too.

He indeed works in mysterious ways.

 

[Foxfyre]

I can say absolutely with strong conviction that the Son is God because he said that he was. So if he is not, then Jesus of Nazareth was delusional and a false prophet himself and faith in him would be of no value to anybody.

Jesus may have inferred he was the Son of God depending on ones interpretation but he never actually said it. What is your opinion. Here are a few of the passages.

There are many occasions on which Jesus states his identity with God.
1. John 8:51-59 Jesus says

John 8:58 (NIV) "Before Abraham was, I am"

This is a clear reference to the name of God. Even if there were any doubt that this is the reference the reaction of the Pharisees clearly indicates that (in their eyes) this is a blasphemous claim.

2. Matthew 9:1-7 Jesus claims to forgive sins, which the local officials (correctly) believed to be the perogative of God only.

3. Thomas the apostle calls Jesus "My Lord and My God", which Jesus does not correct or deny.

4. Also, we see this in John

John 14:9b, 10a (NIV)

... Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father... Don’t you believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in me?

5. Matthew 26:63-64

The high priest said to him, “I charge you under oath by the living God: Tell us if you are the Messiah, the Son of God.” “You have said so,” Jesus replied.

Does Jesus ever claim to be God, or the son of God? - Christianity Stack Exchange

Exactly as you have quoted here. Support for that point of view. But just enough ambiguity to leave open other possible interpretations.

Then again we always have to realize that there is more than one translation of the ancient Hebrew, the ancient Aramaic, and the ancient Greek from which the scriptures we have were translated. Is "One" a literal single thing or "one in Spirit" as the 'separate but equal' trinitarians interpret it?

For me it is one thing and that makes the most sense to me. Most especially when John's Gospel begins with "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." All translators translate "the Word" from this passage to mean 'the Christ."

But do I think the church should have been ripped apart as it was due to inability to agree on whether God and his Son were two beings or one? It is hard for me to think that did not grieve the Spirit, but then again, maybe it was necessary for the Church to fan out and reach all the world as it has done. I don't pretend to know the answer to things like that.

 

[Foxfyre]

Oh, and Pacer, since Chuckt is still speaking to you but I have been discarded as unworthy, refer him to the whole text of Matthew 23 for that 'brood of vipers' thing. It's pretty informative.

 

[pacer]

Oh, and Pacer, since Chuckt is still speaking to you but I have been discarded as unworthy, refer him to the whole text of Matthew 23 for that 'brood of vipers' thing. It's pretty informative.

Chuckt can get a little passionate at times but I do not believe he discards anyone as unworthy.

 

[Foxfyre]

Oh, and Pacer, since Chuckt is still speaking to you but I have been discarded as unworthy, refer him to the whole text of Matthew 23 for that 'brood of vipers' thing. It's pretty informative.

Chuckt can get a little passionate at times but I do not believe he discards anyone as unworthy.

Well maybe not but it felt that way when he held up his church as the final word, his authority as superior to mine, his teachers as superior to mine, and culminated with 'we don't need you' meaning me.

 

[pacer]

Oh, and Pacer, since Chuckt is still speaking to you but I have been discarded as unworthy, refer him to the whole text of Matthew 23 for that 'brood of vipers' thing. It's pretty informative.

Chuckt can get a little passionate at times but I do not believe he discards anyone as unworthy.

Well maybe not but it felt that way when he held up his church as the final word, his authority as superior to mine, his teachers as superior to mine, and culminated with 'we don't need you' meaning me.

Yes, I saw that post. I would overlook it. In the meantime, I will post Matthew 23...

Matthew 23

New King James Version (NKJV)

Woe to the Scribes and Pharisees

23 Then Jesus spoke to the multitudes and to His disciples, 2 saying: “The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses’ seat. 3 Therefore whatever they tell you to observe,[a] that observe and do, but do not do according to their works; for they say, and do not do. 4 For they bind heavy burdens, hard to bear, and lay them on men’s shoulders; but they themselves will not move them with one of their fingers. 5 But all their works they do to be seen by men. They make their phylacteries broad and enlarge the borders of their garments. 6 They love the best places at feasts, the best seats in the synagogues, 7 greetings in the marketplaces, and to be called by men, ‘Rabbi, Rabbi.’ 8 But you, do not be called ‘Rabbi’; for One is your Teacher, the Christ, and you are all brethren. 9 Do not call anyone on earth your father; for One is your Father, He who is in heaven. 10 And do not be called teachers; for One is your Teacher, the Christ. 11 But he who is greatest among you shall be your servant. 12 And whoever exalts himself will be humbled, and he who humbles himself will be exalted.

13 “But woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you shut up the kingdom of heaven against men; for you neither go in yourselves, nor do you allow those who are entering to go in. 14 Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you devour widows’ houses, and for a pretense make long prayers. Therefore you will receive greater condemnation.[c]

15 “Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you travel land and sea to win one proselyte, and when he is won, you make him twice as much a son of hell as yourselves.

16 “Woe to you, blind guides, who say, ‘Whoever swears by the temple, it is nothing; but whoever swears by the gold of the temple, he is obliged to perform it.’ 17 Fools and blind! For which is greater, the gold or the temple that sanctifies[d] the gold? 18 And, ‘Whoever swears by the altar, it is nothing; but whoever swears by the gift that is on it, he is obliged to perform it.’ 19 Fools and blind! For which is greater, the gift or the altar that sanctifies the gift? 20 Therefore he who swears by the altar, swears by it and by all things on it. 21 He who swears by the temple, swears by it and by Him who dwells[e] in it. 22 And he who swears by heaven, swears by the throne of God and by Him who sits on it.

23 “Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have neglected the weightier matters of the law: justice and mercy and faith. These you ought to have done, without leaving the others undone. 24 Blind guides, who strain out a gnat and swallow a camel!

25 “Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you cleanse the outside of the cup and dish, but inside they are full of extortion and self-indulgence.[f] 26 Blind Pharisee, first cleanse the inside of the cup and dish, that the outside of them may be clean also.

27 “Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you are like whitewashed tombs which indeed appear beautiful outwardly, but inside are full of dead men’s bones and all uncleanness. 28 Even so you also outwardly appear righteous to men, but inside you are full of hypocrisy and lawlessness.

29 “Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! Because you build the tombs of the prophets and adorn the monuments of the righteous, 30 and say, ‘If we had lived in the days of our fathers, we would not have been partakers with them in the blood of the prophets.’

31 “Therefore you are witnesses against yourselves that you are sons of those who murdered the prophets. 32 Fill up, then, the measure of your fathers’ guilt. 33 Serpents, brood of vipers! How can you escape the condemnation of hell? 34 Therefore, indeed, I send you prophets, wise men, and scribes: some of them you will kill and crucify, and some of them you will scourge in your synagogues and persecute from city to city, 35 that on you may come all the righteous blood shed on the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah, son of Berechiah, whom you murdered between the temple and the altar. 36 Assuredly, I say to you, all these things will come upon this generation.

Jesus Laments over Jerusalem

37 “O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the one who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing! 38 See! Your house is left to you desolate; 39 for I say to you, you shall see Me no more till you say, ‘Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord!’ ”[g]

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

Pastor Benny Hinn Confronts False Teacher Joel Osteen Publicly. This is how you expose a false teacher! Watch this!


[ame=http://youtu.be/azqoBksweZA]BENNY HINN CONFRONTS JOEL OSTEEN & OPRAH Larry King - YouTube[/ame]

 

[The Irish Ram]

I'm willing to address it Fox, if that's ok.. We believe that we get our authority from our Father, and our Savior, Christ. Not to accuse or condemn, but to let others know what we believe will change their life both here and for eternity, and the possibilities the future holds.
We are not to judge or curse those who teach or preach or witness falsely, That is not our job. We are to discern through God's Holy Spirit what is true and what is not, address the false doctrine that leads away from Christ, and expose the person doing it. It makes the teacher/preacher aware of his error (for his sake) and prevents his flock from being lead astray. Rick Warren is a perfect example. He built up a following based on Christ and is now leading them to a new new direction of a concocted "Chrislam." Christians have an obligation to point chrislam out as a corruption and an apostasy.
In other words, we are to scream at the top of our lungs when we see you in danger. It is our obligation to our family, and our service to our Father, through Christ.

Pace, you are leaning on your own understanding. It isn't an individual determining what false prophets may be. God clearly establishes the criteria, for preaching, teaching, and witnessing, and the results of relying on self to try to rewrite what He already knows and has shared.
Do you reinterpret Bach, or Plato, or the Constitution?

 

[Foxfyre]

I'm willing to address it Fox, if that's ok.. We believe that we get our authority from our Father, and our Savior, Christ. Not to accuse or condemn, but to let others know what we believe will change their life both here and for eternity, and the possibilities the future holds.
We are not to judge or curse those who teach or preach or witness falsely, That is not our job. We are to discern through God's Holy Spirit what is true and what is not, address the false doctrine that leads away from Christ, and expose the person doing it. It makes the teacher/preacher aware of his error (for his sake) and prevents his flock from being lead astray. Rick Warren is a perfect example. He built up a following based on Christ and is now leading them to a new new direction of a concocted "Chrislam." Christians have an obligation to point chrislam out as a corruption and an apostasy.
In other words, we are to scream at the top of our lungs when we see you in danger. It is our obligation to our family, and our service to our Father, through Christ.

Pace, you are leaning on your own understanding. It isn't an individual determining what false prophets may be. God clearly establishes the criteria, for preaching, teaching, and witnessing, and the results of relying on self to try to rewrite what He already knows and has shared.
Do you reinterpret Bach, or Plato, or the Constitution?

As a student of music, yes, Bach MUST be interpreted or it will be played badly. I have taught college level classes on the teachings of Plato and he too absolutely must be interpreted or he will be more misunderstood than he usually is anyway. And my goodness gracious, are you seriously suggesting that the Constitution must not be interpreted?

It is HOW such interpretation is done--the integrity to understand original intent--that is the issue.

Is Bach interpreted in a way to be faithful to HIS intention of how his music should be played? Not as how we might prefer it sound?

Is Plato interpreted as he most likely intended within his culture and experience? Not as what we might think he meant through our eyes?

Is the Constitution interpreted as the Founders intended it as we are informed by the extensive writings and documents they left for us? Not as we might wish it said.

For me the Bible must be approached in the same way. For me, true Bible study is to see through the eyes of those who wrote it. Not what we wish the Bible said but what they actually intended.

But you did not answer my question please. What did I specifically say that compels you to think I am in danger?

 

[Chuckt]

Oh, and Pacer, since Chuckt is still speaking to you but I have been discarded as unworthy, refer him to the whole text of Matthew 23 for that 'brood of vipers' thing. It's pretty informative.

Chuckt can get a little passionate at times but I do not believe he discards anyone as unworthy.

Well maybe not but it felt that way when he held up his church as the final word, his authority as superior to mine, his teachers as superior to mine, and culminated with 'we don't need you' meaning me.

Matthew 7:24 ¶ Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:
Matthew 7:25 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.
Matthew 7:26 And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand:
Matthew 7:27 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.

That is why I don't want to have much to do with you, Foxfyre. I don't want people who depart from the word of God because God has all authority and I don't want you on my team because not only will your words be sinking sand but:

1 Corinthians 5:6 Your glorying is not good. Know ye not that a little leaven leaveneth the whole lump?

Leaven is symbolic for sin so when people depart from the word of God with their own interpretations or forsaking the word using some reasoning, I don't take kindly to it because you seem to be an authority to yourself and there is God who is the only authority in my book.

My God's words are superior to your words. I depend on God because I'm under His authority and not yours.

 

[pacer]

Pace, you are leaning on your own understanding. It isn't an individual determining what false prophets may be.

The Irish, thank you for pointing it out. Perhaps I should clarify. I do not concern myself with determining who may be a false prophet. I decide who I choose to listen to. I take what is good and leave the rest. I do not discriminate against the whole for the sake of the few. I do not discriminate against all of Bach's works for the sake of the few that do not measure up to my expectations.

 

[Foxfyre]

Pastor Benny Hinn Confronts False Teacher Joel Osteen Publicly. This is how you expose a false teacher! Watch this!


BENNY HINN CONFRONTS JOEL OSTEEN & OPRAH Larry King - YouTube

Benny Hinn in his own words. Perhaps the Bible scholars here might find some really REALLY strange interpretations of the scriptures.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pQKCMl2XzTs]False Prophet Benny Hinn - YouTube[/ame]

 

[pacer]

Ramming ones beliefs/opinions down people’s throat, name calling, and telling people they are doomed to go to hell is not God’s words. It drives people away. As previously pointed out, “do not turn with venom and hatred against those who disagree with you.” I very much enjoyed your posts, Foxfyre. You have a very eloquent facility with words. Ignore those who are envious of your God given capacity to teach scripture. They are 'an authority unto themself’.