Outrage Grows After Undocumented Father Arrested in Front of Daughter Near School

[The Breeze]

Wtf are you talking about? lol
Isn't this thread about a guy who was here illegally? A guy who was also caught driving while drunk?

The DUI was dealt with decades ago to the satisfaction of a court.

So that makes everything good?

As far as an historical DUI conviction, that case is closed.

His criminal activity wasn't. That started when he entered the US illegally.
The DUI was just another crime he was caught committing while he was here.

Do these people need to kill someone before they meet your approval for deportation?

Entering the USA without a visum is probably not a crime.
The historic DUI is a closed case. In the USA there is a principle of Double Jeopardy protection.

So by you reasoning I can choose to ignore the law and you'd have no problem with it, maybe even cheer me on?

 

[owebo]

I addressed the fact that he is undocumented but he did not hurt anyone. No harm was done. I have also mentioned a few times in this thread that he was brought before a judge for a DUI twenty years ago. Why was he not deported then? He was allowed to stay and in the meantime he has been rearing four children, two now grown.

Sucks to be here in America, ILLEGALLY AND WITH A DUI and several other convictions.

"MacLean said Avelica-Gonzalez was convicted of misdemeanor DUI and misdemeanor driving without a license in 2008. Another misdemeanor conviction, in 1998, was for receipt of stolen property when he bought a non-DMV-issued vehicle registration tag. Before 2015, immigrants living in California illegally could not get driver’s licenses."

Immigrant arrested by ICE after dropping daughter off at school, sending shockwaves through neighborhood

Old misdemeanor closed cases.

Wait? Is he legal or illegal?

 

[Dschrute3]

Also; are you suggesting we wait until he kills someone while driving drunk before we deport him?

Should people caught speeding be given a life sentence for the people they might kill in the future? Hardly.

Wtf are you talking about? lol
Isn't this thread about a guy who was here illegally? A guy who was also caught driving while drunk?

The DUI was dealt with decades ago to the satisfaction of a court.

So does he have a DUI conviction?

The historic DUI case is closed.

I'm sorry, but an Illegal Alien committing other crimes, isn't a good scenario for the host country. Why would that country want them to stay? I mean, they're already breaking the law being here. But then they go out and commit other crimes? Sorry, but the host country has every right to boot them. In fact, i fully expect my Government to do that.

 

[emilynghiem]

I can relate to both sides to this.
I once was given the orders to go fire a teacher who had stolen confidential information / property to use
to take clients from a school for a competing tutoring business.
Clearly this was a violation of school property and grounds for dismissal.

but the way I went about it, I confronted and removed the teacher
in front of very upset students. The parents and students and teacher
were crying to each other over the phone afterwards, because no advance
warning was given and it was very traumatizing. We could have called in the parents with the
teacher and let them know what was happening right after telling
the teacher in private, and reduce the shock and upset.

So there are ways to take action civilly and orderly
where it doesn't have to traumatize the children affected.

Police coming to get parents who have violated parole
or probation often run into these confrontations that
make the kids "hate the police," so it causes severe damage
unless people plan ahead and set up better procedures.

The added benefitsd: by setting up agreed processes to begin with
not only are the community members made knowledgeable of laws and policing,
but the real problem people will get screened out if they have no
intention of complying ad cooperating with authorities. So the police
will already know which people are able to be law abiding
and which ones are truly criminally abusive, so they don't confuse the two.

So there are ways to take action civilly and orderly
where it doesn't have to traumatize the children affected.

His kids knew he was an illegal immigrant

They were willingly aiding and abetting a fugitive

A crime doesn't stop being a crime because
you consider it to be stupid or unfair.

They were all aware of the risk of getting caught
but, why worry bout it, the laws aren't enforced

He didn't worry about being removed from the country
or his family, when he foolishly decided...yeah,
being an illegal and driving drunk is a smart thing to do.

I think it was a good thing, the way it went down
It's important for children to realize...choices have consequences
Not agreeing with our laws doesn't make them above the law!

School of Hard Knocks-101

I didn't say or imply ANY of that keepitreal

I am saying to avoid escalating the confrontations by having a procedure set up in advance, where all residents agree to follow the laws and process.

I am saying to obey the laws and teach/train all community members to comply.

Sorry this wasn't clear. it is possible to be compassionate for both the citizens and govt/law enforcement AND uphold and enforce laws to deter and correct any breaches. It's not like one has to compromise the other.

Good govt is like good parenting.
You don't wait until you catch the kids breaking rules to suddenly ditch all kinds of scary punishment to deter them. The proper way is to teach, mentor and model the standard that you want to see enforced.

If we SKIP that step and don't teach people the laws and set up means for people to follow lawful process, can we wonder why people get thrown in jail with charges BEFORE they ever read what their rights are?

When we run classrooms, the teacher has all the students write out and ESTABLISH the rules of the classroom from DAY ONE.

We don't teach people the process of laws and enforcement processes, and don't require them to go through training, pass tests and sign agreements to follow the laws. We do this for drivers to get licenses. Why not do this for people to have rights and privileges of citizenship? Don't you think teaching people the laws and the responsibilities for compliance in advance might work to reduce problems? And that's why teachers do this in schools, and that's why we test and license drivers before letting them drive on the roads?

Why not do the same with law enforcement?

Teaching undocumented residents the laws will not change their status.
There is an inherent lack of justice in deporting ordinary law-abiding residents especially after living for decades as a law-abiding person and going on to marry and becoming a parent.
The federal government should understand this.
When Donald Trump said he wanted undocumented persons (normally Mexicans and others from Central America) deported, even he specified he meant career criminals (those guilty of murder, armed robbery, rapists, etc.) but over-zealous uniformed Immigration and Naturalization personnel are sweeping quite ordinary people into the net. The people were told by the president that it would be mean hombres who were to be targeted but something else, something inherently in-American, something ugly is happening instead.

There is nothing "ugly" about removing people that don't belong here. These are not "ordinary law biding citizens" these are people who illegally came to this country or illegally overstayed their Visa.

I don't know of any law or part of our immigration system that says if you sneak in, stay out of trouble for a few decades, all is well with us. If there is such a law, please post it with a link. Until that time, if you are not supposed to be here, you can and will get kicked out no matter how much trouble you do or don't cause.

Your inability or refusal to empathize with the child and her father is why you see no ugliness in this event.
By all accounts, the father was an ordinary law-abiding person. A DUI conviction being used to portray him as a criminal is unreasonable when there are murderers, armed robbers, and rapists on the loose.

Judges do take into consideration a previous record before passing judgement. It would be cruel to do otherwise. This is not a law but it is common jurisprudence. Judges do not look at people in an absolutist way but take into consideration mitigating circumstances, for example if an offender has been staying on the right side of the law for decades and has been responsible with a life in the United States, married and raising a family. Treating a good father-of-four the same as a career criminal is unjust.
Mitigating Circumstances in Sentencing
The father has done no harm and has a clean record for two decades. A judge will sentence accordingly.

Dear Eloy Enabling both types of lawbreaking, by immigrants or by natural born citizens,
is equally bad. It sends the wrong message about lax law enforcement and invites more abuse and disregard for the laws.

Both types of violations need to be policed to restore respect for law and order.
Democrats need to step up the game on this one.
If all the prison ministries, nonprofits and advocates for reform
collaborated on plans to make the correctional system work effectively
by preventative education, deterrence, and treating and curing criminal illness
to stop addictions and disorders from escalating to civil and criminal violations,
we could turn this ship around.

For all the campaign promises on prison reform,
ifDemocrats are h eld to make good on their own platform,
turning prisons into mental and medical treatment programs
would also solve the health care crisis by freeing up resources
for public health that are currently wasted on a failed criminal
justice and mental health system that profits off addictions instead of curing them.

Go Democrats! It's time to reinvent the party,
reorganize the workers and leaders, teachers and police unions,
and clean up these messes instead of putting them on govt and complaining
nothing is getting done. Of course not, the solutions need to come from
the people and the states, before we can see progress collectively on a national scale.

 

[OKTexas]

I didn't say or imply ANY of that keepitreal

I am saying to avoid escalating the confrontations by having a procedure set up in advance, where all residents agree to follow the laws and process.

I am saying to obey the laws and teach/train all community members to comply.

Sorry this wasn't clear. it is possible to be compassionate for both the citizens and govt/law enforcement AND uphold and enforce laws to deter and correct any breaches. It's not like one has to compromise the other.

Good govt is like good parenting.
You don't wait until you catch the kids breaking rules to suddenly ditch all kinds of scary punishment to deter them. The proper way is to teach, mentor and model the standard that you want to see enforced.

If we SKIP that step and don't teach people the laws and set up means for people to follow lawful process, can we wonder why people get thrown in jail with charges BEFORE they ever read what their rights are?

When we run classrooms, the teacher has all the students write out and ESTABLISH the rules of the classroom from DAY ONE.

We don't teach people the process of laws and enforcement processes, and don't require them to go through training, pass tests and sign agreements to follow the laws. We do this for drivers to get licenses. Why not do this for people to have rights and privileges of citizenship? Don't you think teaching people the laws and the responsibilities for compliance in advance might work to reduce problems? And that's why teachers do this in schools, and that's why we test and license drivers before letting them drive on the roads?

Why not do the same with law enforcement?

Teaching undocumented residents the laws will not change their status.
There is an inherent lack of justice in deporting ordinary law-abiding residents especially after living for decades as a law-abiding person and going on to marry and becoming a parent.
The federal government should understand this.
When Donald Trump said he wanted undocumented persons (normally Mexicans and others from Central America) deported, even he specified he meant career criminals (those guilty of murder, armed robbery, rapists, etc.) but over-zealous uniformed Immigration and Naturalization personnel are sweeping quite ordinary people into the net. The people were told by the president that it would be mean hombres who were to be targeted but something else, something inherently in-American, something ugly is happening instead.

There is nothing "ugly" about removing people that don't belong here. These are not "ordinary law biding citizens" these are people who illegally came to this country or illegally overstayed their Visa.

I don't know of any law or part of our immigration system that says if you sneak in, stay out of trouble for a few decades, all is well with us. If there is such a law, please post it with a link. Until that time, if you are not supposed to be here, you can and will get kicked out no matter how much trouble you do or don't cause.

Your inability or refusal to empathize with the child and her father is why you see no ugliness in this event.
By all accounts, the father was an ordinary law-abiding person. A DUI conviction being used to portray him as a criminal is unreasonable when there are murderers, armed robbers, and rapists on the loose.

Judges do take into consideration a previous record before passing judgement. It would be cruel to do otherwise. This is not a law but it is common jurisprudence. Judges do not look at people in an absolutist way but take into consideration mitigating circumstances, for example if an offender has been staying on the right side of the law for decades and has been responsible with a life in the United States, married and raising a family. Treating a good father-of-four the same as a career criminal is unjust.
Mitigating Circumstances in Sentencing
The father has done no harm and has a clean record for two decades. A judge will sentence accordingly.

By all accounts, the father was an ordinary law-abiding person

Except the DUI... And the stolen car... And coming here illegally ( and probably using a stolen ID and SS number)...And ignoring his initial deportation order.
I'll miss him when he goes back to Mexico. He sounded like a swell guy.

The DUI and a car not properly registered two decades before is far from murder, armed robbery or rape.

Nothing in the law gives you a pass if you haven't committed a violent crime, he ignored two previous deportation orders.

 

[Weatherman2020]

Romulo Avelica-Gonzalez was dropping off his daughters at school in Los Angeles on Tuesday when he was arrested by U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement. His 13-year-old daughter, Fatima, sobbed as she recorded her father being handcuffed in front of her and her mother.

Avelica-Gonzalez, 48, who has been living in the United States for over 20 years, had just finished dropping off his 12-year-old daughter in the Highland Park neighborhood when he was detained. His 19-year-old daughter, Jocelyn, who was at work during the incident, told the LAist that a car had been following her father since the moment he left the house.

“My dad dropped off my first sister and then when he turned around, they turned on their light,” Jocelyn said. “My dad was really scared. He didn’t want to pull over, but he did. As soon as he did, one car went in front of his truck and one in back of his truck. They took him out and they arrested him.”

In the video, Fatima can be heard loudly weeping as her father is detained by men wearing jackets and vests marked “POLICE.” (Los Angeles officials have asked ICE agents to stop identifying themselves as such.) Her mother asks one of the officers in Spanish how to proceed before turning to her daughter and telling her: “Don’t cry, honey. Don’t cry. We have to be strong.”

Avelica-Gonzalez, the father of four U.S. citizens, was detained over a DUI conviction nearly 10 years ago and a two decade-old incident involving an incorrect registration sticker, according to a local ABC affiliate.

Harrowing Video Captures Teen Sobbing As ICE Arrests Her Dad On The Way To School | The Huffington Post
-------------

Welcome to Trump's America, ripping families apart to create fear.

How I long for the Clinton days.

 

[Eloy]

Should people caught speeding be given a life sentence for the people they might kill in the future? Hardly.

Wtf are you talking about? lol
Isn't this thread about a guy who was here illegally? A guy who was also caught driving while drunk?

The DUI was dealt with decades ago to the satisfaction of a court.

So does he have a DUI conviction?

The historic DUI case is closed.

I'm sorry, but an Illegal Alien committing other crimes, isn't a good scenario for the host country. Why would that country want them to stay? I mean, they're already breaking the law being here. But then they go out and commit other crimes? Sorry, but the host country has every right to boot them. In fact, i fully expect my Government to do that.

The crimes you refer to were old misdemeanors and closed cases. They cannot even be used again according to the principle of double jeopardy.
Not having travel papers is not a crime.

 

[owebo]

Wtf are you talking about? lol
Isn't this thread about a guy who was here illegally? A guy who was also caught driving while drunk?

The DUI was dealt with decades ago to the satisfaction of a court.

So does he have a DUI conviction?

The historic DUI case is closed.

I'm sorry, but an Illegal Alien committing other crimes, isn't a good scenario for the host country. Why would that country want them to stay? I mean, they're already breaking the law being here. But then they go out and commit other crimes? Sorry, but the host country has every right to boot them. In fact, i fully expect my Government to do that.

The crimes you refer to were old misdemeanors and closed cases. They cannot even be used again according to the principle of double jeopardy.
Not having travel papers is not a crime.

Is he legal or illegal?

 

[Correll]

Wtf are you talking about? lol
Isn't this thread about a guy who was here illegally? A guy who was also caught driving while drunk?

The DUI was dealt with decades ago to the satisfaction of a court.

So does he have a DUI conviction?

The historic DUI case is closed.

I'm sorry, but an Illegal Alien committing other crimes, isn't a good scenario for the host country. Why would that country want them to stay? I mean, they're already breaking the law being here. But then they go out and commit other crimes? Sorry, but the host country has every right to boot them. In fact, i fully expect my Government to do that.

The crimes you refer to were old misdemeanors and closed cases. They cannot even be used again according to the principle of double jeopardy.
Not having travel papers is not a crime.

He wasn't being charged with those crimes again. He was just being sent home.

 

[Rustic]

Wtf are you talking about? lol
Isn't this thread about a guy who was here illegally? A guy who was also caught driving while drunk?

The DUI was dealt with decades ago to the satisfaction of a court.

So does he have a DUI conviction?

The historic DUI case is closed.

I'm sorry, but an Illegal Alien committing other crimes, isn't a good scenario for the host country. Why would that country want them to stay? I mean, they're already breaking the law being here. But then they go out and commit other crimes? Sorry, but the host country has every right to boot them. In fact, i fully expect my Government to do that.

The crimes you refer to were old misdemeanors and closed cases. They cannot even be used again according to the principle of double jeopardy.
Not having travel papers is not a crime.

A free ride always cost somebody something…

 

[tycho1572]

Wtf are you talking about? lol
Isn't this thread about a guy who was here illegally? A guy who was also caught driving while drunk?

The DUI was dealt with decades ago to the satisfaction of a court.

So does he have a DUI conviction?

The historic DUI case is closed.

I'm sorry, but an Illegal Alien committing other crimes, isn't a good scenario for the host country. Why would that country want them to stay? I mean, they're already breaking the law being here. But then they go out and commit other crimes? Sorry, but the host country has every right to boot them. In fact, i fully expect my Government to do that.

The crimes you refer to were old misdemeanors and closed cases. They cannot even be used again according to the principle of double jeopardy.
Not having travel papers is not a crime.

Try selling that to the dept that took him into custody, dumbass. lol

You really are an idiot. It's obvious you have no f'ing clue about what's actually happening.

 

[Dschrute3]

Wtf are you talking about? lol
Isn't this thread about a guy who was here illegally? A guy who was also caught driving while drunk?

The DUI was dealt with decades ago to the satisfaction of a court.

So does he have a DUI conviction?

The historic DUI case is closed.

I'm sorry, but an Illegal Alien committing other crimes, isn't a good scenario for the host country. Why would that country want them to stay? I mean, they're already breaking the law being here. But then they go out and commit other crimes? Sorry, but the host country has every right to boot them. In fact, i fully expect my Government to do that.

The crimes you refer to were old misdemeanors and closed cases. They cannot even be used again according to the principle of double jeopardy.
Not having travel papers is not a crime.

I feel there's more to this story. I don't think a past DUI conviction alone, would have prompted them to issue a Deportation Order. There has to be more. That's my gut feeling.

 

[OKTexas]

I didn't say or imply ANY of that keepitreal

I am saying to avoid escalating the confrontations by having a procedure set up in advance, where all residents agree to follow the laws and process.

I am saying to obey the laws and teach/train all community members to comply.

Sorry this wasn't clear. it is possible to be compassionate for both the citizens and govt/law enforcement AND uphold and enforce laws to deter and correct any breaches. It's not like one has to compromise the other.

Good govt is like good parenting.
You don't wait until you catch the kids breaking rules to suddenly ditch all kinds of scary punishment to deter them. The proper way is to teach, mentor and model the standard that you want to see enforced.

If we SKIP that step and don't teach people the laws and set up means for people to follow lawful process, can we wonder why people get thrown in jail with charges BEFORE they ever read what their rights are?

When we run classrooms, the teacher has all the students write out and ESTABLISH the rules of the classroom from DAY ONE.

We don't teach people the process of laws and enforcement processes, and don't require them to go through training, pass tests and sign agreements to follow the laws. We do this for drivers to get licenses. Why not do this for people to have rights and privileges of citizenship? Don't you think teaching people the laws and the responsibilities for compliance in advance might work to reduce problems? And that's why teachers do this in schools, and that's why we test and license drivers before letting them drive on the roads?

Why not do the same with law enforcement?

Teaching undocumented residents the laws will not change their status.
There is an inherent lack of justice in deporting ordinary law-abiding residents especially after living for decades as a law-abiding person and going on to marry and becoming a parent.
The federal government should understand this.
When Donald Trump said he wanted undocumented persons (normally Mexicans and others from Central America) deported, even he specified he meant career criminals (those guilty of murder, armed robbery, rapists, etc.) but over-zealous uniformed Immigration and Naturalization personnel are sweeping quite ordinary people into the net. The people were told by the president that it would be mean hombres who were to be targeted but something else, something inherently in-American, something ugly is happening instead.

There is nothing "ugly" about removing people that don't belong here. These are not "ordinary law biding citizens" these are people who illegally came to this country or illegally overstayed their Visa.

I don't know of any law or part of our immigration system that says if you sneak in, stay out of trouble for a few decades, all is well with us. If there is such a law, please post it with a link. Until that time, if you are not supposed to be here, you can and will get kicked out no matter how much trouble you do or don't cause.

Your inability or refusal to empathize with the child and her father is why you see no ugliness in this event.
By all accounts, the father was an ordinary law-abiding person. A DUI conviction being used to portray him as a criminal is unreasonable when there are murderers, armed robbers, and rapists on the loose.

Judges do take into consideration a previous record before passing judgement. It would be cruel to do otherwise. This is not a law but it is common jurisprudence. Judges do not look at people in an absolutist way but take into consideration mitigating circumstances, for example if an offender has been staying on the right side of the law for decades and has been responsible with a life in the United States, married and raising a family. Treating a good father-of-four the same as a career criminal is unjust.
Mitigating Circumstances in Sentencing
The father has done no harm and has a clean record for two decades. A judge will sentence accordingly.

There is an existing deportation order. He won't get to see a judge.

He's like Whitey Bulger who lived an exemplary life in Santa Monica.

Can there be a deportation order without the signature of a judge?

He got that in 2011 and it was signed by a judge.

 

[OKTexas]

That's why i wait till the whole story comes out. The report was designed to illicit a knee-jerk response against Immigration Officials. More 'Fake News.' He may have been wanted for other crimes. If not, i'm a fair-minded person. Something reasonable could be worked out.

We have the whole story. There are cruel and heartless people who back-up the police every time, contrary to your belief.

We have the whole story.

Then why the kidnapping lie?

I saw the man being kidnapped in the video made by his distraught American daughter.

How do you "kidnap" a crimminal.

The father is not a criminal no more than you are for your speeding tickets.

He violated the law every day he remained in the US and again every day he went to work. How many thousands of violations are you willing to give a pass on?

 

[OKTexas]

By all accounts, the father was an ordinary law-abiding person

Except the DUI... And the stolen car... And coming here illegally ( and probably using a stolen ID and SS number)...And ignoring his initial deportation order.
I'll miss him when he goes back to Mexico. He sounded like a swell guy.

The DUI and a car not properly registered two decades before is far from murder, armed robbery or rape.

You forgot to mention being here illegally.

I addressed the fact that he is undocumented but he did not hurt anyone. No harm was done. I have also mentioned a few times in this thread that he was brought before a judge for a DUI twenty years ago. Why was he not deported then? He was allowed to stay and in the meantime he has been rearing four children, two now grown.

He wasn't deported because we had a president who didn't give a shit about Americans. Now that we have one who does care, he's being sent back.

Is that hard for you to understand?

His wife and four American children see it differently than you do.

The wives and families of bank robbers share their POV, doesn't make either correct.

 

[my2¢]

I feel the illegal alien was being responsible for getting the hell out of corrupt Mexico, just as I would feel about somebody getting himself out of South Chicago. If this Mexican had no other problems than a DUI 20 years ago, I wish in his place we could give his identity to somebody sitting in a U.S. jail who speaks Spanish. If the prisoner is willing to play along, keep his mouth shut and trade his jail cell for a free trip to Mexico I'd figure that's a win-win at least for us.

 

[rhodescholar]

You're an idiot, Eloy. I'm not surprised you're an obama supporter.

It's a scumbag troll; it does the same shit in the Israel forum. Just kick it in the face a few times, then ignore it.

 

[OKTexas]

There was no other information. I am going only on the report you read.

And because of that you decided that entering this country illegally is NOT a crime? Or is that just an indoctrinated liberal response? Or do you think that deporting this criminal and his child seeing the LAW being enforced is a bad thing or do you think the action of enforcing the LAW is somehow a racist thing or WHAT is the point you are tossing up but not posting.

What does that have to do with the crime he was arrested for?

My argument is clear.
I am not a lawyer so I cannot express an opinion about entering a country without a visum is part of American criminal law. I doubt it.

It can get you up to 6 months in jail for the first offense plus fines.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Your inability or refusal to empathize with the child and her father is why you see no ugliness in this event.
By all accounts, the father was an ordinary law-abiding person. A DUI conviction being used to portray him as a criminal is unreasonable when there are murderers, armed robbers, and rapists on the loose.

Judges do take into consideration a previous record before passing judgement. It would be cruel to do otherwise. This is not a law but it is common jurisprudence. Judges do not look at people in an absolutist way but take into consideration mitigating circumstances, for example if an offender has been staying on the right side of the law for decades and has been responsible with a life in the United States, married and raising a family. Treating a good father-of-four the same as a career criminal is unjust.
Mitigating Circumstances in Sentencing
The father has done no harm and has a clean record for two decades. A judge will sentence accordingly.

By all accounts, the father was an ordinary law-abiding person

Except the DUI... And the stolen car... And coming here illegally ( and probably using a stolen ID and SS number)...And ignoring his initial deportation order.
I'll miss him when he goes back to Mexico. He sounded like a swell guy.

That's why i wait till the whole story comes out. The report was designed to illicit a knee-jerk response against Immigration Officials. More 'Fake News.' He may have been wanted for other crimes. If not, i'm a fair-minded person. Something reasonable could be worked out.

We have the whole story. There are cruel and heartless people who back-up the police every time, contrary to your belief.

We have the whole story.

Then why the kidnapping lie?

I saw the man being kidnapped in the video made by his distraught American daughter.

Taken into custody by legal authorities is not kidnapping.

 

[rhodescholar]

Try selling that to the dept that took him into custody, dumbass. lol You really are an idiot. It's obvious you have no f'ing clue about what's actually happening.

Your mistake is assuming that trolling asshole trash has an interest in a rational discussion, it doesn't. It is here solely to troll with stupid comments that go against any sane thought to get a rise out of thread participants.