over 700 billion !! thats what the US spends on NATO annually !!

[Dschrute3]

NATO is obsolete. The world has changed dramatically since its creation. The EU is made up of very wealthy powerful nations. Europe is more than capable of defending itself at this point. I stopped supporting NATO the day it transitioned from a defensive entity into an offensive entity.

NATO is now an aggressor. It's all over the world bombing and starting wars. It's bombing nations that are absolutely no threat to Europe and the US. So it's no longer serving the purpose it was created for. Europe can defend itself at this point. Time to disband NATO.

 

[Dschrute3]

although other stats say the US spends only 400 billion a yr !!! even if that is true thats nearly half a trillion bucks a yr !!! so if thats true why the hell is it wrong do demand better trade agreements and lower tariffs on our goods sold in the same countries we spend 100s of billions to protect ?? shouldnt we at least get a fair deal ??

maybe we should just pull out of NATO and invest the money in our own country !!

Yes, it's time.

 

[healthmyths]

we spend 3.5 % of gdp on NATO thats a lot of money !

No where near 700 billion by a loooooong shot but proportionally we're twice to fifteen times the size of all the other members. so it's relational.

That’s because we are idiots obsessed with having the biggest dog on the block

The irony of all this is, that nearly half the left-wingers here have at one point or another, said we need to cut the defense budget.

But if we actually were to cut our defense budget by that much, NATO is gone. And with the departure of NATO, Europe will end up under the control of Russia, or China. Maybe not directly like Ukraine, but Russia will have unbelievable influence.

So, you think that China or Russia is going to physically invade Europe if it were not for NATO?

The basic premise of the Reagan/BushI post-cold war defense policy was that if countries practice free trade, as defined by Friedman-Thatcher-Reagan, we will guarantee the trade routes stay open.

I think Trump's view, in a nutshell, is that we got screwed with this policy. I believe the figures show Trump is wrong.

United States GDP | 1960-2018 | Data | Chart | Calendar | Forecast | News

So you have NO problem with these following "trade agreements"..
A Jeep Wrangler can cost $30,000 more in China than in the United States — and the reasons illustrate a growing point of tension between the two countries.
Manufactured in Toledo, Ohio, the Wrangler is a descendant of the jeeps that were used by American forces in World War II. Equipped with a 3.6-liter engine and a five-speed automatic transmission, the Rubicon edition of the Wrangler has a suggested retail price of $40,530 in the United States.
But in China, the same vehicle would set a buyer back by a hefty $71,000, mostly because of taxes that Beijing charges on every car, minivan and sport utility vehicle that is made in another country and brought to China’s shores.
China’s Taxes on Imported Cars Feed Trade Tensions With U.S.

 

[Cellblock2429]

although other stats say the US spends only 400 billion a yr !!! even if that is true thats nearly half a trillion bucks a yr !!! so if thats true why the hell is it wrong do demand better trade agreements and lower tariffs on our goods sold in the same countries we spend 100s of billions to protect ?? shouldnt we at least get a fair deal ??

/-----/ I'll tell you what's wrong. It was President Trump's idea and not President Hildabeast's. And I have proof of the Leftard's fake outrage. Obozo said the exact same thing and no one on the Left said BOO.
“I want to take this opportunity to commend Greece for being one of the five NATO allies that spends 2 percent of GDP on defense, a goal that we have consistently set but not everybody has met,” Obama said. “Greece has done this even during difficult economic times. If Greece can meet this NATO commitment, all our NATO allies should be able to do so.” Obama urges NATO members to pull their weight

 

[healthmyths]

I thought we had stopped your foot chewing compulsion. Back to square one.

we spend 3.5 % of gdp on NATO thats a lot of money !

No where near 700 billion by a loooooong shot but proportionally we're twice to fifteen times the size of all the other members. so it's relational.

That’s because we are idiots obsessed with having the biggest dog on the block

We are the biggest dog on the block....... for now........ Who do you want to take our place?

We spend 46 cents of every military dollar on earth

I don’t think we have to fear anyone

First of all WHERE did you get that number? Please for more credibility provide a link ok?

Per the below article:
Basically, no one has looked at this total cost.
I was able to find that Congress asked the military to on a yearly basis calculate the total costs of maintaining troops and bases overseas and they would come up with a
figure of about $21, $22 billion every year.

And the only other global estimate that I was able to find was one from an economist that showed a total of $250 billion a year. So this is a huge spread between about $22 billion and $250 billion, and so I decided to really try to dive into the Pentagon’s numbers and look for spending that they might have been ignoring in their reports to Congress.

And by my calculation, and this was a very conservative estimate, we’re spending around $100 to $150 billion, billion with a b, every year maintaining troops and bases overseas. And I used the pentagon’s congressionally-mandated methodology in my calculations. And this more money than any government agency except the Pentagon itself.
The Costs and Benefits of U.S. Military Bases Overseas

 

[healthmyths]

NATO is obsolete. The world has changed dramatically since its creation. The EU is made up of very wealthy powerful nations. Europe is more than capable of defending itself at this point. I stopped supporting NATO the day it transitioned from a defensive entity into an offensive entity.

NATO is now an aggressor. It's all over the world bombing and starting wars. It's bombing nations that are absolutely no threat to Europe and the US. So it's no longer serving the purpose it was created for. Europe can defend itself at this point. Time to disband NATO.

Then I take it you support President Trump's current efforts?

 

[Andylusion]

A war monger country?
You stupid ass.

Ever heard of Iraq.


Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com

yeah the same country that invaded Kuwait ...an ally of the US !

So, we invaded Iraq because they invaded Kuwait 10 year prior and got their ass kicked when they did so...yep sounds like war mongering to me

We had an agreement with Iraq to disarm, that ended the war in 1991.

Iraq failed to uphold their end of the agreement. Additionally, based on the intelligence data we had available at the time, we had reason to believe that Saddam was continuing their WMDs program. This conclusion was validated from several sources including European sources.

The fact we did not find massive operational WMD programs in Iraq, does not change the fact that prior to, all the evidence we had at the time suggested they did.

Regardless of what you can say with 20/20 hind sight, doesn't change the fact that a president must go based on the evidence he has, not the evidence he might theoretically have in the future.

This is also why Bill Clinton, Hillary Clinton, and a host of democrats throughout government, all support taking action in Iraq, and only started the "bush lied and people died" routine, when they found it was politically favorable to do so.

Just like all the anti-torture people in Congress, were fully aware and supportive of "enhanced interrogation" prior to it becoming a political win.

 

[rightwinger]

A war monger country?
You stupid ass.

Ever heard of Iraq.


Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com

yeah the same country that invaded Kuwait ...an ally of the US !

So, we invaded Iraq because they invaded Kuwait 10 year prior and got their ass kicked when they did so...yep sounds like war mongering to me

We had an agreement with Iraq to disarm, that ended the war in 1991.

Iraq failed to uphold their end of the agreement. Additionally, based on the intelligence data we had available at the time, we had reason to believe that Saddam was continuing their WMDs program. This conclusion was validated from several sources including European sources.

The fact we did not find massive operational WMD programs in Iraq, does not change the fact that prior to, all the evidence we had at the time suggested they did.

Regardless of what you can say with 20/20 hind sight, doesn't change the fact that a president must go based on the evidence he has, not the evidence he might theoretically have in the future.

This is also why Bill Clinton, Hillary Clinton, and a host of democrats throughout government, all support taking action in Iraq, and only started the "bush lied and people died" routine, when they found it was politically favorable to do so.

Just like all the anti-torture people in Congress, were fully aware and supportive of "enhanced interrogation" prior to it becoming a political win.

We needlessly killed 6000 Americans and 100,000 Iraqis over silly fear mongering

 

[bendog]

A war monger country?
You stupid ass.

Ever heard of Iraq.


Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com

yeah the same country that invaded Kuwait ...an ally of the US !

So, we invaded Iraq because they invaded Kuwait 10 year prior and got their ass kicked when they did so...yep sounds like war mongering to me

We had an agreement with Iraq to disarm, that ended the war in 1991.

Iraq failed to uphold their end of the agreement. Additionally, based on the intelligence data we had available at the time, we had reason to believe that Saddam was continuing their WMDs program. This conclusion was validated from several sources including European sources.

The fact we did not find massive operational WMD programs in Iraq, does not change the fact that prior to, all the evidence we had at the time suggested they did.

Regardless of what you can say with 20/20 hind sight, doesn't change the fact that a president must go based on the evidence he has, not the evidence he might theoretically have in the future.

This is also why Bill Clinton, Hillary Clinton, and a host of democrats throughout government, all support taking action in Iraq, and only started the "bush lied and people died" routine, when they found it was politically favorable to do so.

Just like all the anti-torture people in Congress, were fully aware and supportive of "enhanced interrogation" prior to it becoming a political win.

Please. No one paying attention thought Saddam had operational womd programs when W invaded. It was NOT over womd. It was about nation building and installing a democracy. And neither turned out to be the total loss critics like me expected.

 

[Dschrute3]

NATO is obsolete. The world has changed dramatically since its creation. The EU is made up of very wealthy powerful nations. Europe is more than capable of defending itself at this point. I stopped supporting NATO the day it transitioned from a defensive entity into an offensive entity.

NATO is now an aggressor. It's all over the world bombing and starting wars. It's bombing nations that are absolutely no threat to Europe and the US. So it's no longer serving the purpose it was created for. Europe can defend itself at this point. Time to disband NATO.

Then I take it you support President Trump's current efforts?

Well, he is right to demand more money from European nations. The EU consists of very wealthy powerful nations. They can contribute more. If that helps US Taxpayers, than he should go for it. But overall, i'd like to see NATO disbanded. Europe is very capable of defending itself at this point. NATO is an obsolete entity.

 

[busybee01]

Christ sake, it's like some of you don't know how to use the internet.
View attachment 204130

You are using total defense spending for the US. You are using the internet to deceive.

 

[KissMy]

Clinton & Obama reduced US spending on NATO. Bush & Trump EXPLODED SPENDING!!!

 

[Andylusion]

I thought we had stopped your foot chewing compulsion. Back to square one.

we spend 3.5 % of gdp on NATO thats a lot of money !

No where near 700 billion by a loooooong shot but proportionally we're twice to fifteen times the size of all the other members. so it's relational.

That’s because we are idiots obsessed with having the biggest dog on the block

The irony of all this is, that nearly half the left-wingers here have at one point or another, said we need to cut the defense budget.

But if we actually were to cut our defense budget by that much, NATO is gone. And with the departure of NATO, Europe will end up under the control of Russia, or China. Maybe not directly like Ukraine, but Russia will have unbelievable influence.

So, you think that China or Russia is going to physically invade Europe if it were not for NATO?

We already know the answer to this. At least in my mind we do.

Why did Russia invade Ukraine? To prevent them from joining NATO. You don't see Russia messing with any other country that is part of NATO or the EU. Georgia, no problem.

There's a reason Russia has made threatening moves towards Sweden and Finland, but not Norway or Estonia. Norway and Estonia are part of NATO.

Now do I think that Russia will invade immediately if the US leaves NATO? Of course not. They'll have to have a reason, and context, and make up some false aggression, and maybe have some plight of Russians in other countries to claim to be defending. Who knows. But it won't be immediately.

Also you have to realize that attitudes will change as well. When Europe realizes the US isn't going to 'snap to' when they call anymore, they will be more appeasement oriented like Chamberlain. It's possible Russia will get all the concessions they want, without firing a shot, simply because Europe already knows they will most certainly fire shots if needed.

 

[busybee01]

A war monger country?
You stupid ass.

Ever heard of Iraq.


Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com

yeah the same country that invaded Kuwait ...an ally of the US !

So, we invaded Iraq because they invaded Kuwait 10 year prior and got their ass kicked when they did so...yep sounds like war mongering to me

We invaded Iraq because they were reaching out to terrorists and were getting weapons of mass destruction.

 

[Andylusion]

Clinton & Obama reduced US spending on NATO. Bush & Trump EXPLODED SPENDING!!!

Yeah, and Bush had to rebuild our military because Clinton gutted it. Obama almost hallowed out our military, which is why Iraq and Afghanistan both ended up in chaos, under his supervision.

 

[Harpy Eagle]

A war monger country?
You stupid ass.

Ever heard of Iraq.


Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com

yeah the same country that invaded Kuwait ...an ally of the US !

So, we invaded Iraq because they invaded Kuwait 10 year prior and got their ass kicked when they did so...yep sounds like war mongering to me

We invaded Iraq because they were reaching out to terrorists and were getting weapons of mass destruction.

 

[Dschrute3]

NATO is no longer a defensive entity. It's an aggressor now. It's been bombing countries that are no threat to Europe and the US, for many years. That's not what it was set up for. So it's time to end it. Bring the cash home to US Taxpayers.

 

[Harpy Eagle]

Clinton & Obama reduced US spending on NATO. Bush & Trump EXPLODED SPENDING!!!

Yeah, and Bush had to rebuild our military because Clinton gutted it. Obama almost hallowed out our military, which is why Iraq and Afghanistan both ended up in chaos, under his supervision.

Iraq and Afghanistan were in chaos before he was even elected, that is how they were handed them. He did not do anything to make anything in better, but he cannot be blamed for the chaos, that falls 100% on Bush II and his string pullers.

 

[Ringel05]

I thought we had stopped your foot chewing compulsion. Back to square one.

we spend 3.5 % of gdp on NATO thats a lot of money !

No where near 700 billion by a loooooong shot but proportionally we're twice to fifteen times the size of all the other members. so it's relational.

That’s because we are idiots obsessed with having the biggest dog on the block

We are the biggest dog on the block....... for now........ Who do you want to take our place?

We spend 46 cents of every military dollar on earth

I don’t think we have to fear anyone

Oh....... so you actually think this will last........ Okie dokie.......

 

[jillian]

although other stats say the US spends only 400 billion a yr !!! even if that is true thats nearly half a trillion bucks a yr !!! so if thats true why the hell is it wrong do demand better trade agreements and lower tariffs on our goods sold in the same countries we spend 100s of billions to protect ?? shouldnt we at least get a fair deal ??

So you want to give Vladimir what he wants and cede our power to him and to china.

Good going.