Palestinian children tortured, used as shields by Israel: U.N.

[HistoryBefore67]

Your sole contribution here is insults - you claim something is bogus, ignore multiple sources - offer not a thing in response to refute those sources and then step back and have the audacity to claim "this is no longer a discussion"

Amusing.

Why don't you simply be honest about it and say you can't refute it?

It's one simple little question: can you show proof that the UN report and those articles are wrong on the use of human shields by the IDF?

There's nothing to refute. What you are calling sources (1) involve definitions of the term "human shields" that are entirely different from Hamas' obvious use of its own people to protect its fighters/weapons from Israeli retaliation, (2) are unsubstantiated claims by "Palestinians," who constantly fabricate these types of claims, reported by organizations that have a predisposition against Israel, and (3) frequently involve isolated incidents that - if true - would be contrary to Israeli policy.

So keep posting links rather than answering a simple question:

If a rocket is fired from a civilian area in Gaza, and Israel is unable to secure the evacuation of the civilians that are present, should it:

a) Attack the target nonetheless to protect its own people; or
b) do nothing.

I'm sorry that pointed questions that are based upon real scenarios seem to insult you.

 

[SherriMunnerlyn]

Thought we all agreed on that Al-Durah was not killed by the IDF> ?

Or are there still morons out there who believe otherwise?

No, Palestinians and human rights groups have been reporting he was killed by the IDF since 9/30/2000.

 

[SherriMunnerlyn]

What I'm saying is that children who are part of the infrastructure of terrorism are valid targets for liquidation, or in some cases, for arrest and interrogation. They are certainly not eligible for due process rights in such circumstances.

None of these statements have any basis under intl law.

 

[toastman]

Your sole contribution here is insults - you claim something is bogus, ignore multiple sources - offer not a thing in response to refute those sources and then step back and have the audacity to claim "this is no longer a discussion".

Amusing.

Why don't you simply be honest about it and say you can't refute it?

It's one simple little question: can you show proof that the UN report and those articles are wrong on the use of human shields by the IDF?

Is it possible that some soldiers have used Palestinians as human shields? Yes.
But like HB67, it is absolutely positively NOT a policy of the IDF. Do you agree with me on that part ?

 

[toastman]

Thought we all agreed on that Al-Durah was not killed by the IDF> ?

Or are there still morons out there who believe otherwise?

No, Palestinians and human rights groups have been reporting he was killed by the IDF since 9/30/2000.

Did you see an IDF soldier shoot him ? Did anyone see an IDF soldier shoot him ? NO and NO.
Was there a bullet removed from his body that is the same that the IDF uses? No

Palestinians will ALWAYS use incidents like this to demonize Israel. But there is no evidence to prove he was shot by an IDF soldier.

Stop pretending like you were there Sherri

 

[Coyote]

Your sole contribution here is insults - you claim something is bogus, ignore multiple sources - offer not a thing in response to refute those sources and then step back and have the audacity to claim "this is no longer a discussion"

Amusing.

Why don't you simply be honest about it and say you can't refute it?

It's one simple little question: can you show proof that the UN report and those articles are wrong on the use of human shields by the IDF?

There's nothing to refute. What you are calling sources (1) involve definitions of the term "human shields" that are entirely different from Hamas' obvious use of its own people to protect its fighters/weapons from Israeli retaliation,

This is the definition:

human shield
n.
1. A person who volunteers or is forced to take up a position at a likely military target as a means of forestalling an enemy attack.
2. A person who is used as a shield by someone in a confrontation with the police in order to prevent capture.

Using a child to enter a building ahead of the soldier is certainly within #1 and is certainly as reprehensible as Hamas' use of human sheilds.

(2) are unsubstantiated claims by "Palestinians," who constantly fabricate these types of claims, reported by organizations that have a predisposition against Israel, and (3) frequently involve isolated incidents that - if true - would be contrary to Israeli policy.

Read the articles - they are not unsubstantiated.

It may be contrary to "policy" but it happens, and it happens more than a few times.

So keep posting links rather than answering a simple question:

Make up your mind on what it is you want. First you ask for sources and proof, then you say that isn't what you want?

If a rocket is fired from a civilian area in Gaza, and Israel is unable to secure the evacuation of the civilians that are present, should it:

a) Attack the target nonetheless to protect its own people; or
b) do nothing.

The answer is a) - with particular consideration in the degree of force to be used given the presence of civilians.

I'm sorry that pointed questions that are based upon real scenarios seem to insult you.

I'm not in the least insulted. Your constantly moving targets and lack of any actual info is simply exasperating.

Now, perhaps you can answer my questions and show me proof that these claims that the IDF uses human sheilds are false. Or, you can keep dodging.

 

[Coyote]

Your sole contribution here is insults - you claim something is bogus, ignore multiple sources - offer not a thing in response to refute those sources and then step back and have the audacity to claim "this is no longer a discussion".

Amusing.

Why don't you simply be honest about it and say you can't refute it?

It's one simple little question: can you show proof that the UN report and those articles are wrong on the use of human shields by the IDF?

Is it possible that some soldiers have used Palestinians as human shields? Yes.
But like HB67, it is absolutely positively NOT a policy of the IDF. Do you agree with me on that part ?

I'll say what I said earlier: IDF have engaged in this a number of times, in defiance of court rulings and when caught punishment is light. So, while it's not the official policy and it is illegal - is it an unofficial policy? Shouldn't the punishment be more severe if they truly do not want their solders doing this?

 

[Sweet_Caroline]

Thought we all agreed on that Al-Durah was not killed by the IDF> ?

Or are there still morons out there who believe otherwise?

No, Palestinians and human rights groups have been reporting he was killed by the IDF since 9/30/2000.

It has been disproven. Al-Durah was NOT killed by the IDF. Keep up with the news.

 

[toastman]

Your sole contribution here is insults - you claim something is bogus, ignore multiple sources - offer not a thing in response to refute those sources and then step back and have the audacity to claim "this is no longer a discussion".

Amusing.

Why don't you simply be honest about it and say you can't refute it?

It's one simple little question: can you show proof that the UN report and those articles are wrong on the use of human shields by the IDF?

Is it possible that some soldiers have used Palestinians as human shields? Yes.
But like HB67, it is absolutely positively NOT a policy of the IDF. Do you agree with me on that part ?

I'll say what I said earlier: IDF have engaged in this a number of times, in defiance of court rulings and when caught punishment is light. So, while it's not the official policy and it is illegal - is it an unofficial policy? Shouldn't the punishment be more severe if they truly do not want their solders doing this?

Why? Just to please Palestinians and their supporters ?

 

[HistoryBefore67]

Let's make this really simple.

If you present me with the findings of an objective third party supported by credible evidence, I'll respond.

If you present me with the findings of a biased third party supported only by the unsubstantiated allegations of "Palestinians," I'm not going to waste my time "proving a negative."

If Israel's goal was to inflict maximum casualties, it hardly lacks the means to to so. To the contrary, Israel's conflict with the "Palestinians" has resulted in fewer Arab casualties since its inception than the Syrian Civil War has inflicted in approximately 3 years. The reason for this is, despite your efforts to assert otherwise, Israel has utilized extreme restraint in the face of continual attacks on its civilians.

That's my response. If you don't like it... oh well. Its not going to change becuase you post additional links.

 

[Coyote]

Is it possible that some soldiers have used Palestinians as human shields? Yes.
But like HB67, it is absolutely positively NOT a policy of the IDF. Do you agree with me on that part ?

I'll say what I said earlier: IDF have engaged in this a number of times, in defiance of court rulings and when caught punishment is light. So, while it's not the official policy and it is illegal - is it an unofficial policy? Shouldn't the punishment be more severe if they truly do not want their solders doing this?

Why? Just to please Palestinians and their supporters ?

No. If they are going to claim some sort of moral highground, which they are - then they need to make darn sure they have that moral highground or stop going on about Hamas' use of human shields and just admit that they all do it.

 

[toastman]

I'll say what I said earlier: IDF have engaged in this a number of times, in defiance of court rulings and when caught punishment is light. So, while it's not the official policy and it is illegal - is it an unofficial policy? Shouldn't the punishment be more severe if they truly do not want their solders doing this?

Why? Just to please Palestinians and their supporters ?

No. If they are going to claim some sort of moral highground, which they are - then they need to make darn sure they have that moral highground or stop going on about Hamas' use of human shields and just admit that they all do it.

LOL. Does Hamas punish their 'fighters' for launching rockets?
Common Coyote, you're making no sense.

 

[Coyote]

Let's make this really simple.

I will type slowly for you.

If you present me with the findings of an objective third party supported by credible evidence, I'll respond.

What you consider "objective" and I consider "objective" may not mean the same thing.

If you present me with the findings of a biased third party supported only by the unsubstantiated allegations of "Palestinians," I'm not going to waste my time "proving a negative."

*YOU* make the blanket statements that it's all bogus then claim you can't show it's bogus. I offered multiple sources - an article, UN, B'tselem. You offer nothing .

If Israel's goal was to inflict maximum casualties, it hardly lacks the means to to so. To the contrary, Israel's conflict with the "Palestinians" has resulted in fewer Arab casualties since its inception than the Syrian Civil War has inflicted in approximately 3 years. The reason for this is, despite your efforts to assert otherwise, Israel has utilized extreme restraint in the face of continual attacks on its civilians.

I totally agree - Israel is far more careful, and more conscientous of civilians then any of it's opponents. That doesn't mean it isn't over the top at times and the use of human shields and the use of WP are two examples.

That's my response. If you don't like it... oh well. Its not going to change becuase you post additional links.

I don't expect any change. You demand sources and proof. I offer it up. You offer none. You are entitled to your opinion and I am entitled to reject it because, like my own - it's only an opinion.

 

[Coyote]

Why? Just to please Palestinians and their supporters ?

No. If they are going to claim some sort of moral highground, which they are - then they need to make darn sure they have that moral highground or stop going on about Hamas' use of human shields and just admit that they all do it.

LOL. Does Hamas punish their 'fighters' for launching rockets?
Common Coyote, you're making no sense.

No they do not. But I am not defending Hamas' actions.

 

[toastman]

Even if these soldiers were to receive greater punishment, Palestinians and their supporters will still find something about it to complain about, that's for sure. They're never pleased

 

[Coyote]

Even if these soldiers were to receive greater punishment, Palestinians and their supporters will still find something about it to complain about, that's for sure. They're never pleased

Who cares what they complain about?

Aren't there higher concepts involved here?


Doesn't it bother you that the IDF acts like Hamas and uses human shields? Doesn't it bother you that the only punishment is a demotion and 2 months for letting a 9 yr old child be a bomb target?

We all know Hamas has no ethics.

 

[HistoryBefore67]

Let's make this really simple.

I will type slowly for you.

What was that you were saying about trolling and insults?

What you consider "objective" and I consider "objective" may not mean the same thing.

So you thing the definition of "objective" is subjective?

*YOU* make the blanket statements that it's all bogus then claim you can't show it's bogus. I offered multiple sources - an article, UN, B'tselem. You offer nothing

You don't offer sources. You offer reports of accusations. Those accusations are unproven, so there is no reason for me or anyone else to respond to them. You don't seem to understand the difference between an "allegation" and a "fact."

I totally agree - Israel is far more careful, and more conscientous of civilians then any of it's opponents.

Then why not spend your time trying to fight against the source of the violence - i.e. the "Palestinians" (mostly in Gaza).

I don't expect any change. You demand sources and proof. I offer it up.

No, I have not demanded sources and proof, because you clearly don't know what those terms mean. These discussions are about you raising "strawman" arguments and then demanding that I DISPROVE them.

Its not my job to disprove every claim the "Palestinians" fabricate.

 

[toastman]

Even if these soldiers were to receive greater punishment, Palestinians and their supporters will still find something about it to complain about, that's for sure. They're never pleased

Who cares what they complain about?

Aren't there higher concepts involved here?


Doesn't it bother you that the IDF acts like Hamas and uses human shields? Doesn't it bother you that the only punishment is a demotion and 2 months for letting a 9 yr old child be a bomb target?

We all know Hamas has no ethics.

There is absolutely no similarity between Hams and the IDF, please don't ever compare the two

 

[SherriMunnerlyn]

I have difficulties seeing similarity between Hamas and Israel too. Only Israel has killed 1519 children since 9/30/2000.

 

[SherriMunnerlyn]

Hamas does not use civilians as human shields. As addressed in the You Tube video over 300 human rights groups written reports about Cast Lead have found no evidence Hamas used children as human shields. But Israel did.