Palestinian children tortured, used as shields by Israel: U.N.

[Kondor3]

"...facts are facts."

So far, we have seen no 'facts' that reinforce the idea that Palestinians would not choose Option (2) rather than Option (1), if properly motivated with an appealing, just outcome.

And we have seen no 'credentials' from you that would lead a reasonable person to believe that the dogma and opinion which you spout should be viewed as superior and decisive.

Repeat after me:

"OK, OK, OK, godammit, ya got me on that one. I still believe in what I said, but, in the end, it's just personal opinion. Still, like you, I can hope that I'm proven right, if it ever comes to that."

See? Now THAT would not have been so painful, would it? Try it sometime.

But that's all part of the maturation process... we learn by doing.

 

[HistoryBefore67]

Its a fact that every right-wing Zionist in this forum has called for Israel to exile the Palestinians, and one them called for all Gentiles in Israel to lose their citizenship.

Here's the problem...

I'm pretty sure that you'd regard me as a "right-wing Zionist" (I'm certainly a Zionist, though I don't know about the "right wing" part). And yet, I've NEVER called for Israel to exile the Palestinians or to take away their citizenship.

So, if you can answer a direct question rather than continuing your tap dance, how do you justify your comment about "every right-wing Zionist" in the face of this contradiction?

 

[Hyrcanus]

"...facts are facts."

So far, we have seen no 'facts' that reinforce the idea that Palestinians would not choose Option (2) rather than Option (1), if properly motivated with an appealing, just outcome.

And we have seen no 'credentials' from you that would lead a reasonable person to believe that the dogma and opinion which you spout should be viewed as superior and decisive.

Repeat after me:

"OK, OK, OK, godammit, ya got me on that one. I still believe in what I said, but, in the end, it's just personal opinion. Still, like you, I can hope that I'm proven right, if it ever comes to that."

See? Now THAT would not have been so painful, would it? Try it sometime.

But that's all part of the maturation process... we learn by doing.

Considering what the Nazis, Pogroms, Crusaders, and Inquisition did to us, its sick that you're fantasizing about exiling millions of Palestinians.

 

[HistoryBefore67]

We're waiting for a direct answer.

 

[Hyrcanus]

If the UN knew that Israelis would be fantasizing about exiling millions of Palestinians, stripping Gentiles of citizenship, and murdering all Palestinians that refuse to leave, they would not have allowed the creation of Israel or made them a UN member.

 

[ForeverYoung436]

"...facts are facts."

So far, we have seen no 'facts' that reinforce the idea that Palestinians would not choose Option (2) rather than Option (1), if properly motivated with an appealing, just outcome.

And we have seen no 'credentials' from you that would lead a reasonable person to believe that the dogma and opinion which you spout should be viewed as superior and decisive.

Repeat after me:

"OK, OK, OK, godammit, ya got me on that one. I still believe in what I said, but, in the end, it's just personal opinion. Still, like you, I can hope that I'm proven right, if it ever comes to that."

See? Now THAT would not have been so painful, would it? Try it sometime.

But that's all part of the maturation process... we learn by doing.

Considering what the Nazis, Pogroms, Crusaders, and Inquisition did to us, its sick that you're fantasizing about exiling millions of Palestinians.

Kondor isn't Jewish. He's a Christian Zionist.

 

[HistoryBefore67]

 

[ForeverYoung436]

Its a fact that every right-wing Zionist in this forum has called for Israel to exile the Palestinians, and one them called for all Gentiles in Israel to lose their citizenship.

Here's the problem...

I'm pretty sure that you'd regard me as a "right-wing Zionist" (I'm certainly a Zionist, though I don't know about the "right wing" part). And yet, I've NEVER called for Israel to exile the Palestinians or to take away their citizenship.

So, if you can answer a direct question rather than continuing your tap dance, how do you justify your comment about "every right-wing Zionist" in the face of this contradiction?

I don't consider Arabs who are citizens of Israel proper to be Palestinians. They're Israeli Arabs. The Arabs who live in the West Bank and Gaza are Palestinians.

 

[MHunterB]

"I don't have any particular credentials on the subject that render my opinion superior to that of any of my colleagues here."
[/SIZE]
Concession noted and accepted... better luck next time.

facts are facts.

This tautology adds nothing of value: it's simply spitting defiance.....

I think it's a fact that none of the Jewish posters here is willing to believe that 'Hyrcanus' is "Jewish" in any more than some technical sense of having had a Jewish parent. This is because of the breathtaking ignorance his posts have displayed of Jewish history of ALL centuries and areas, among many other factors.

 

[HistoryBefore67]

Here's the problem...

I'm pretty sure that you'd regard me as a "right-wing Zionist" (I'm certainly a Zionist, though I don't know about the "right wing" part). And yet, I've NEVER called for Israel to exile the Palestinians or to take away their citizenship.

So, if you can answer a direct question rather than continuing your tap dance, how do you justify your comment about "every right-wing Zionist" in the face of this contradiction?

I don't consider Arabs who are citizens of Israel proper to be Palestinians. They're Israeli Arabs. The Arabs who live in the West Bank and Gaza are Palestinians.

Oh, I agree with you... There is definitely a distinction between those Arabs who have peacefully become part of Israel's society, and those who call themselves "Palestinians" seeking to "liberate Palestine from river to sea."

I'm just trying to get Hyrcanus to substantiate his broad, sweeping accusation.

Clearly, he can't do so.

 

[MHunterB]

If the UN knew that Israelis would be fantasizing about exiling millions of Palestinians, stripping Gentiles of citizenship, and murdering all Palestinians that refuse to leave, they would not have allowed the creation of Israel or made them a UN member.

Since Lipush is the only Israeli citizen I know of posting here - you'd better show where she's ever suggested anything of the sort. Unless you'd prefer to apologize to her?

 

[MHunterB]

I don't consider Arabs who are citizens of Israel proper to be Palestinians. They're Israeli Arabs. The Arabs who live in the West Bank and Gaza are Palestinians.

Oh, I agree with you... There is definitely a distinction between those Arabs who have peacefully become part of Israel's society, and those who call themselves "Palestinians" seeking to "liberate Palestine from river to sea."

I'm just trying to get Hyrcanus to substantiate his broad, sweeping accusation.

Clearly, he can't do so.

I agree,: those who accepted Israeli citizenship may be 'ethnic Palestinians', so to speak - but they function as Israeli citizens and there should be no distinction beween Israeli citizens of different ethnicity OR religion. I do not think the law makes any such distinction.

 

[Hyrcanus]

Ive listed several comments by right-wing Zionists calling for the Palestinians to suffer ethnic cleansing.

And I have posted the comment by the right-wing Zionist who wants all Israeli Gentiles to lose their citizenship.

 

[MHunterB]

...If we wanted to hear from a Muslim Propaganda Fountain, we would have asked one of your female colleagues to turn-on the spray.

There's no need to be uncivil.

Yanno, while standing in the pit that's been dug by every 'right-wing Zionist' and 'NeoZionist' - not to mention the *multiple* threads of a trollish yet whining nature! - it's quite difficult to get on that high horse and presume to have the high ground morally.

Just a thought, should you truly desire to continue this 'wounded innocent' ploy......

 

[Kondor3]

"...Considering what the Nazis, Pogroms, Crusaders, and Inquisition did to us..."

Who is "us"?

And how does this render your opinion any better or worse than anyone else's.

"...its sick that you're fantasizing about exiling millions of Palestinians."

Ah, I was wondering when you were going to try to single-me-out...

I DID send a shiver up your spine a couple of days ago, didn't I, in speculating about something which you had not yet considered?

I recall speculating upon the End Game between Israel and the Palestinians, with Israel paying them off and helping to move them elsewhere as they condemn, annex and re-task more and more land.

I also recall stating that by subjecting the Jews to decades of suicide bombings and rocket attacks, the Palestinians had left the Israelis with little choice other than to neutralize the viper in its midst, and that juggling populations was a more humane way of doing this than outright killing them.

I also recall stating on multiple occasions throughout that sequence that I was not a stakeholder nor calling for such measures but merely speculating on a likely End-Game strategy as this struggle draws to a close.

I also recall stating that the Israelis would probably be obliged to utilize Police and Military to clean-up any final resistance in wrapping-up this 65-year-old undeclared war.

I also recall mentioning that war produces casualties, and that this was a war, and that the Muslim-Palestinians had blown dozens of opportunities for a better deal and that it was now probably far too late to revisit many or all of those old negotiating-table bullet-points.

I also recall mentioning that if, by some chance, there WAS still some slim chance for a negotiated peace, that it would be a meeting between Winners (Israel) and Losers (Palestinians), and that the Winners set-down the terms, and that the Loses accept the terms, and that, if there was still a chance, that the Palestinians had better STFU and cut a deal while they still could, and that a crappy deal was better than none.

I also recall you becoming increasingly agitated at the time as my speculation about End-Game tactics became more detailed - something that delighted me to no end at the time.

You confuse political speculation with fantasizing, but I understand that it is in your best interests, and those for whom you advocate (the Palestinians), to attempt to portray it as something else.

But, given your rude penchant for labeling your colleagues as Ultra-Right-Wing Zionists, we really should expect very little of you; certainly not accuracy in labeling them (not that it is given to you to label them, anyway).

Now, feel free to treat us to several pages of Dogmatic Diarrhea and whining about why your opinion should be given more weight (on this matter, as well) than that of any of your colleagues.

 

[HistoryBefore67]

Since Hyrcanus has run away with his tail between his legs, I'm going to clarify a point.

I have stated in another thread that I believe that Israel has the right to deport seditionists. Giving Hyrcanus the benefit of a doubt that he hardly deserves, perhaps he misinterpreted that to mean that I would advocate deporting all "Palestinians" (that would be an absurd reading of my comments, but given his poor reading comprehension skills, it is possible that this is where he got off the rails).

Let me provide an illustrative example. Assume Israel were to discover that the Al Asqua Martyr Brigade had established a secret base just outside Netanya... and they clearly were working on a plot to engage in a plot to attack government facilities... what would Israel's right be with respect to these seditionists?

They could send them to prison, certainly. But could they also deport them?

I say yes. Absolutely.

Does that mean I'd apply a "guilt by association" mentality and deport all "Palestinians"? Of course not.

But, Israel, like any sovereign nation in the world, has no obligation to tolerate sedition within its borders.

 

[MHunterB]

Ive listed several comments by right-wing Zionists calling for the Palestinians to suffer ethnic cleansing.

And I have posted the comment by the right-wing Zionist who wants all Israeli Gentiles to lose their citizenship.

Indulge us: what is your 'definition' for 'right-wing Zionist'? And then you can give us the list of ID's who you feel are contained in that category here.

Incidentally, you DO know that there's a precedent for that idea, don't you? I am assuming that you feel it was wrong of all those Arab nations to legislate away the citizenship of their entire Jewish communities and appropriate everything they owned....is that accurate?

If not, you'll need to explain to me why .

 

[Hyrcanus]

Ah, I was wondering when you were going to try to single-me-out...

I DID send a shiver up your spine a couple of days ago, didn't I, in speculating about something which you had not yet considered...

I recall speculating upon the End Game between Israel and the Palestinians, with Israel paying them off and helping to move them elsewhere as they condemn, annex and re-task more and more land.

I also recall stating that by subjecting the Jews to decades of suicide bombings and rocket attacks, the Palestinians had left the Israelis with little choice other than to neutralize the viper in its midst, and that juggling populations was a more humane way of doing this than outright killing them.

I also recall stating on multiple occasions throughout that sequence that I was not a stakeholder nor calling for such measures but merely speculating on a likely End-Game strategy as this struggle draws to a close.

I also recall stating that the Israelis would probably be obliged to utilize Police and Military to clean-up any final resistance in wrapping-up this 65-year-old undeclared war.

I also recall mentioning that war produces casualties, and that this was a war, and that the Muslim-Palestinians had blown dozens of opportunities for a better deal and that it was now probably far too late to revisit many or all of those old negotiating-table bullet-points....

So you support the Israelis eventually trying to "cleanse" the land of all 2.1 million Palestinians.

 

[Kondor3]

"...So you support the Israelis eventually trying to 'cleanse' the land of all 2.1 million Palestinians."

I have not indicated support nor opposition. I have speculated on what is probably going to be necessary as the last of the land is condemned, annexed and re-tasked.

 

[Hyrcanus]

I have not indicated support nor opposition. I have speculated on what is probably going to be necessary as the last of the land is condemned, annexed and re-tasked.

oh, so you don't think it will be right or wrong.

it will simply be "neccessary".