Partial Birth Abortion Ban

[Moi]

Originally posted by janeeng
Ok, Mr. Liberal! I have dwelled on whether or not I should post my personal life on this board, I even took a ride - and I decided to go ahead and post - I will bow my head right now in shame and hope that the friends I have here, will remain just that and understand what I will post here.

I haven't performed any abortions, no I haven't watched any, no I haven't read any pamphlets, the truth is, I had an abortion at a young tender age of 17 - Yeah, I murdered, and I have read or learned what I know now, no, I wouldn't have done that. Why? because it is MURDER!!! I made a BIG mistake in my life, and didn't no who to turn to, should it have been my parents? too scared the shame I would show them. You talk CHOICE?? I had no choice, so I thought, for fear, embarass to my family, friends, etc.. and to me - so I made my choice, and the choice was to do what I thought was right - I went and did and had EXACTLY what I stated before, the being put to sleep, the dialation, the jar that I looked at before being knocked out, to the tears! when I woke, I cried for days! I know what I did, I KILLED!!! I took life! you can sit and say it's not a life, well let me tell you my friend, until you have carried something in you, don't you DARE tell me it's not a life - I live daily with the pain, the pain of my mistake, the pain of not knowing who or what I would have had, a Daughter/Son, and I took that life and threw it in a jar. I have gone to priests asked for forgiveness, on my hands and knees cried in hopes to have a child someday - yes, I feel I was forgiven, I have 2 children, 1 that I nearly lost because, I had her at 6 months, 6 months, and you say a fetus can't live outside a womb, how wrong you are, 6 months isn't that young, but young enough that she couldn't come home with me, small enough to have to have tubes running throughout her, blood transfusions, tests, medicines, monitors, and death at one point to be brought back! Another little girl, didn't even weigh one pound, now you tell me, how long do you think that fetus stayed in a womb to be born less than a pound, not long, but you know what, SHE SURVIVED!!!!! You talk about all this crap on abortion, and yeah, everyone has an OPINION, let me tell you, I HAVE THE FACTS!!!! and the fact is, IT is MURDER!!! and the murder that I will live with for the rest of my life, until the day that I can finally come to see what I gave up, yes, I believe that I will meet my Son/Daughter someday, and I hope to be forgiven for what I did.

Abortion, well, if a Mother's life is in danger and she could die, then I suppose the choice is hers! but, to go out and do a stupid thing, there are other choices!!!!

Ok, maybe none of this made sense to any of you, but it does to me. Now, i will bow my head and shame, and I will excuse myself for the night! should I have the courage to come back here, then all I ask is that some that gotten to know me, understand that I made a stupid mistake, a mistake that I live with, but can't sit here and read these posts on here anymore, without giving you the FACTS!!!

Sorry to those that know me..and to my family who read on here, I appologize!

Oh Janeen. No one I know, whether they believe abortion should be legal or not, at any stage of a pregnancy, has the right to make you feel bad. What you did, no matter how they feel about the issue, was legal at the time you did it. As for guilt and shame, screw them. If your entire life comes down to one moment then we're all in for it. Because not one of us has lived a life so pure as to not have done something we regret or don't want our kids to know about.

It's also possible that your perspective changes throughout your life so that what's acceptable today isn't acceptable tomorrow and vice versa. We can only do the best we can and hope that we learn from our experiences and become better people for it.

No apologies necessary, Chiquita.

 

[Creek]

I'm holding you sweety,and will help dry your tears...
It took alot of strength to say what you did....I think you're beautiful,and wonderful.....and have the most soft heart in the world....God strengthens us from our mistakes,he forgives you..and so do we....I know this aint the time to say this...but I wouldnt hold one of your hands...I'd hold both.....(hugs)....We all love you...and care for you.....so much...(hugs)...

 

[Keebs]

Actually, it isn't the way you've said things. It's what you've said. Furthermore, for what, exactly, are you requesting proof? My posts have been about how I do not believe my tax dollars should be used to support causes that I don't believe in. Never once in my posts have I said one word about my feelings towards abortion, in general or specifically 3rd trimester.

Okay, so now we are talking about tax dollars? If you haven't stated an opinion on abortion in anyway, then what is it that you want from me? I posted my reasons behind the right to choose. People jumped in, except you. You've just stated your opinion on me as a debater. If you haven't voiced your opinion on abortions, then why are you in this thread?

My posts defencing people who feel a moral tie to the sanctity of life was in direct response to something you said. You said it's about choice and that a fetus is not alive. When asked what you deem alive, you've stated viability outside the womb. Not only is that inapplicable to 3rd trimester abortions but we've proven that viability can also be applied to all sorts of situations: infirmity, injury, etc. So that can't possibly be the argument you're going to stick with, is it?

Did I say the fetus was not alive? A deer is alive, we eat them, a catapiller is alive, but it is not a butterfly. I will stick with this arguement.

President Bush's law to ban "partial birth abortion" is bad. It keeps anyone who will DIE if they deliver the baby. It takes away rights from anyone having an abortion after 12 weeks. Anyone who can add can see that 12 weeks is not in the 3rd trimester.



Of a headstrong little girl, honey you are a threat to no one, it is just when someone is so obsessed with something, there is a reason.

Of a headstrong old man, honey you aren't listening to anything anyone says. If I am no threat, why are you bothering to comment to my posts? If this shit really doesn't matter, why are we even talking?

There are no contradictions in my posts, I have said over and over that if a women life is in danger it is ok to have this done. Is this repeated in every one of my posts, no, most people are smart enough that it is not necessary.

No contradictions? Anywhere?

What about this? "I think we can all agree that once the brain is formed, it is a child. No longer is this a womens choice, at this point it is murder. Plain and simple."

and this?
"After this point the only time I can see an abortion is if the life of the mother is a risk. Here you are trading one life for another and we should not force women into this position. "

Now, its murder, but not plain and simple. Now we can choose who we want to live.

And then again...
"Furthermore we are talking about partial birth not abortion in general, I women can choose until a certain point, after that it is murder, plain and simple."

I'm sorry, that is inconsistant.

Ok, Mr. Liberal! I have dwelled on whether or not I should post my personal life on this board, I even took a ride - and I decided to go ahead and post - I will bow my head right now in shame and hope that the friends I have here, will remain just that and understand what I will post here.

Mr.? Surely that was a typo and you mean Mrs.

I'm not going to pick apart your story. It's your personal life and I'm glad that you felt like you could share it. I'm sorry you had such a rough time with it.

You said you didn't have a choice, but, if abortion had been illegal what would you have done?

I KILLED!!! I took life! you can sit and say it's not a life, well let me tell you my friend, until you have carried something in you, don't you DARE tell me it's not a life

*sighs* Listen, I really do feel bad for the pain that you feel inside of yourself. You're the one that is going to deal with it for the rest of your life, not me. But, just because it wasn't right for you, doesn't mean it's not right for everyone. I have 2 family members that have had abortions and I have 2 close girl friends that have had an abortion. Frankly, they don't feel like you do.

I HAVE THE FACTS!!!! and the fact is, IT is MURDER!!!

You have a reason to believe it is murder. I believe your facts, you've lived them. But, what is right for one person isn't right for the whole world.

Abortion, well, if a Mother's life is in danger and she could die, then I suppose the choice is hers! but, to go out and do a stupid thing, there are other choices!!!!

My bestfriends mother had 4 abortions. Okay, that was right for her. Not you, not Bill, not sarah. Her. It's really no ones business, your story is not our business, my story is no ones business. I don't want to sound cold and heartless, because believe me, I feel your pain. But to assume because you feel one way from your experiance that everyone else should also feel the same isn't right.

I wish you would quit bowing your head in shame. And I do hope you come back. Everyone has to live their lives on their own. It matters not what any of these people think of you. Thats for you to sort out with yourself, your family, and your priest.

--------

Haven't adopted any and don't plan on it. Does that now make it ok to kill babies in the third tri-mester, because I don't have room for them?

Okay, now then. Adoption isn't a good option, what will a mother do with an unwanted child?

Nobody stated abortion should be abolished, just late term abortions.

I am assuming you mean no one on this message board.

Why your constant need to bring up homosexuality? There's a huge difference between right to life and right to anal sex.

Ohhh so now its wrong for my husband to preform anal sex on me?

Because, you're so offended that we are killing humans. Well is a Lesbian or Gay man not Human? Why would I want to bring a child into the world where people don't have equal rights.

For the record, I detest homosexuality.

Well, I'm glad that not everyone thinks like you.

I detest you, and people like you. The Rush Limbaughs. You say that I have no compassion. Right, Killer bees have more compassion than you do

 

[jimnyc]

Ok, maybe none of this made sense to any of you, but it does to me. Now, i will bow my head and shame, and I will excuse myself for the night! should I have the courage to come back here, then all I ask is that some that gotten to know me, understand that I made a stupid mistake, a mistake that I live with, but can't sit here and read these posts on here anymore, without giving you the FACTS!!!

Making mistakes and learning from them is nothing to be ashamed of. The courage to look at past indiscretions and learn from them and improve is admirable.

Lift your head back up, nobody here has the right to sit in judgement of you. But, if I did, I would tell you along with the rest of the board what a great person and mother you have evolved into.

I've seen on all too many occasions the adversity you have to face, so I have the ability to comment. You have done one helluva job with your family given the tools life has provided you. Be proud.

 

[eric]

Maybe we can all take a lesson from Janeen. We all speak as though we are experts on subjects that we have not personally experienced. This can make all the difference in the world !

Thank you Janeen for sharing such a heartfelt and courageous post.

I am truely humbled.

 

[Moi]

Originally posted by Keebs

The fact that you know 4 people who've had abortions and one person who's had 4 but none feel conflicted about it is the very reason people with an ounce of morality dislike people like you.

If they had any sort of conscience they'd feel conflicted.

And the fact of the matter is that you can say you hate conservatives but hating anyone makes you a hypocrite. If you truly had an ounce of compassion you would understand that not all people have to believe the same things. No one in this post said that they want to murder anyone or hurt anyone.

Only you. So who's the neanderthal? Those that are against killing an innocent or those that believe that sex should not have consequences, sometimes unpleasant ones, yes. But the majority of abortions could be avoided if abstinence and safe sex were practiced by the majority. There have been studies out there showing how many abortions are due to rape, incest or because of medical reasons. They are not the majority althoughthey may be the majority of late term ones.

Andy my posts have been in response to others who claim that nobody has the right to decide what's legal based on their own moral code but that they have the right to tell me that regardless of my moral code, I have to support, through taxes, actions I would not otherwise support.

 

[jimnyc]

Okay, now then. Adoption isn't a good option, what will a mother do with an unwanted child?

Who said adoption isn't a good option? All I said is that it isn't a good option for me at this time. People shouldn't be making babies if they want to abort, and people shouldn't adopt unless they can offer that person a decent life.

Adoption is a good option and there is quite a long waiting list for those interested in doing so.

I am assuming you mean no one on this message board.

That is correct.

Ohhh so now its wrong for my husband to preform anal sex on me?

Nope, completely natural, got any videos you care to share?

Anal sex between men is far from natural. This is only my opinion though, so take it for what it's worth.

Because, you're so offended that we are killing humans. Well is a Lesbian or Gay man not Human? Why would I want to bring a child into the world where people don't have equal rights.

Then you don't get pregnant if you don't want to bring a child into this cruel world! See how easy that decision is? Waiting until you are already pregnant to make that decision is irresponsible.

Well, I'm glad that not everyone thinks like you.

Me too, I'm unique in a lot of ways!

I detest you, and people like you. The Rush Limbaughs. You say that I have no compassion. Right, Killer bees have more compassion than you do

Ummm...ok, whatever. Am I supposed to be insulted because you don't like me? *boo hoo* - but you know what, late term abortion is still now illegal - deal with it.

 

[Keebs]

The fact that you know 4 people who've had abortions and one person who's had 4 but none feel conflicted about it is the very reason people with an ounce of morality dislike people like you.

Excuse me? Who died and left you in charge of morals? How dare you point fingers at the immoral?



If they had any sort of conscience they'd feel conflicted.

Once again, who the hell do you think you are? Dictating what someone should or should not feel. If you don't like ME thats fine, but you need to leave other peoples feelings out of it. You are the only person that YOU can answer for.

And the fact of the matter is that you can say you hate conservatives but hating anyone makes you a hypocrite. If you truly had an ounce of compassion you would understand that not all people have to believe the same things. No one in this post said that they want to murder anyone or hurt anyone.

Again with the no compassion. Tell me who you are in the rankings of life. Why are YOU so important that you can dictate how I am supposed to be? I understand that not everone feels like me. Is it ok for me not to like them? I think so.

Only you. So who's the neanderthal? Those that are against killing an innocent or those that believe that sex should not have consequences, sometimes unpleasant ones, yes. But the majority of abortions could be avoided if abstinence and safe sex were practiced by the majority. There have been studies out there showing how many abortions are due to rape, incest or because of medical reasons. They are not the majority althoughthey may be the majority of late term ones.

Do you abstain? Do you practice safe sex? Do you educate children on safe sex? Do you pass out condoms in high schools? Or are you one of the people that think ignorance is bliss?

Andy my posts have been in response to others who claim that nobody has the right to decide what's legal based on their own moral code but that they have the right to tell me that regardless of my moral code, I have to support, through taxes, actions I would not otherwise support.

Listen, if you don't want to pay your damn taxes, then don't pay them. But get your money out of my face and wipe your ass with it, if thats what you want to do.

Take that up with the government, I have no control over where your frickin tax money goes. I don't like the fact that my tax money is going to pay for a stupid war in Iraq. What can I do about it? Blame the Iraqis? Sheesh!

Who said adoption isn't a good option? All I said is that it isn't a good option for me at this time. People shouldn't be making babies if they want to abort, and people shouldn't adopt unless they can offer that person a decent life.

No way, if adoption isn't good for everyone, it can't be good for anyone.

Once again, I'm going to ask. Do you know anyone who wakes up in the morning and says "geeeeee I want to have an abortion soooooo bad!" ???

Adoption is a good option and there is quite a long waiting list for those interested in doing so.

Really? I always thought there were thousands of kids in and out of foster homes. Orphanages and that type of thing.



Anal sex between men is far from natural. This is only my opinion though, so take it for what it's worth

Hahaha. And why is that your opinion? You had to come to that conclusion some how.

Then you don't get pregnant if you don't want to bring a child into this cruel world! See how easy that decision is? Waiting until you are already pregnant to make that decision is irresponsible.

So, being married. If I don't want kids I'm supposed to abstain? Right. If my birthcontrol fails, then I am just forced to live with it? I don't think so.

Ummm...ok, whatever. Am I supposed to be insulted because you don't like me? *boo hoo* - but you know what, late term abortion is still now illegal - deal with it.

So, you are in favor of women dying? Because that is what that ban did. ILLEGAL.. no expections. Dying mother or not. "BItch will die, I don't care. As long as the fetus doesn't grow up to be Gay. In that case, they should be locked up"

Yes, your reasoning has made me see the light

 

[jimnyc]

Keebs, you are a fucking idiot. You come here espousing your views on us and tell us how WE are wrong, then get defensive when someone does the same in return?

I'll point a finger at you any fucking time I like, and you know what? There isn't a damn thing you'll do about it.

Go have anal sex. Go get pregnant. Go have abortions. These are all your rights. Your an idiot, but I suppose that's your right too. What a lovely set of examples your pathetic marriage sets.

 

[Creek]

Good call Jim...!!

I'll sum it up....I don't like this guy...

Just making conversation,outa converstaion with him...Came right in here attacking...instead of expressing....can't debate a guy who's set in his beliefs....therefor his posts become rubbish in my view.......

Creek

 

[Keebs]

jimnyc


You can't make one valid damn point as to why you would be more right over me. You wanna cuss at me? Hate me? Damn my soul to hell? Fine, thats your right.

But I'll be god damned if I set back and let you people take the rights away from my mother, daugher, granddaughter or myself.

So you can kiss my gay lovin, black lovin, choice lovin ass.

If you can't do anything but cuss at me and whine about how I have different points from you.. then dont read my damn posts.

YOU call ME a bleeding heart liberal, then you turn around and tell me I have no morals and no compassion. Yes, because that makes sense. I knock down everything your dumbass says, and you can't make one logical reply to it? Screw you, buddy.

 

[Keebs]

Good call Jim...!!

I'll sum it up....I don't like this guy...

Just making conversation,outa converstaion with him...Came right in here attacking...instead of expressing....can't debate a guy who's set in his beliefs....therefor his posts become rubbish in my view.......

Creek




Im a girl, is that okay with you? Or would you just like to kill me now?

I think my posts in this place were very mature and well thought out. It's not my fault if now, you can't make any valid points, you just wanna name call.

 

[Creek]

Hey Keebs...alot folks posted their thoughts,more than the debate side of their thoughts...You got more red in the face since you stared this bologna with what's right & wrong.....

We can take all your insults..and most of us here find you to aggressive...even people that aggreed entirly with you..wouldnt want you speaking for them......Move on to another topic..you're just making an arse out of yourself....You jerk....

 

[Keebs]

We can take all your insults..and most of us here find you to aggressive...even people that aggreed entirly with you..wouldnt want you speaking for them......Move on to another topic..you're just making an arse out of yourself....You jerk..

I AM A GIRL

Insults? SHOW me where I put insults into this? LOL Can you? Can you quote any of my lines where I started insulting? Did I not tell the Janeeen chick that I sympahtized with her? Or did you not have the time to read that much?

YOU move on to another topic, as long as you keep posting me, I'll keep posting you.

Wow. You start losing the war and you resort to bullying. How mature.

 

[jimnyc]

You can't make one valid damn point as to why you would be more right over me. You wanna cuss at me? Hate me? Damn my soul to hell? Fine, thats your right.

Sure I did! Why don't women decide they don't want babies BEFORE having sex? And don't give me that crap about failed methods, it's YOUR duty to ensure you don't get pregnant - not the unborn childs.

But I'll be god damned if I set back and let you people take the rights away from my mother, daugher, granddaughter or myself.

Take what rights away? Their rights to have been born as opposed to aborted?

So you can kiss my gay lovin, black lovin, choice lovin ass.

Well, that explains a lot!

If you can't do anything but cuss at me and whine about how I have different points from you.. then dont read my damn posts.

Who started with the whining? YOU DID. And I won't ignore you and I'll reply when I feel it's necessary, and there's nothing you'll do about that either! Sucks for you to have so many things to deal with.

Look, you came here and immediately started in with your trash talking. You could have debated politely and the attitude would have been returned in kind. If you don't like the responses you get, well then, tough shit!

 

[jimnyc]

I AM A GIRL

Could have fooled me. You come off as a degenerate whore who chooses abortion to keep her lifestyle.

YOU move on to another topic, as long as you keep posting me, I'll keep posting you

Excuse me? Creek is a moderator here and I think he has the right to decide when a thread has run it's course, you don't have a say in that either.

 

[Moi]

Originally posted by Keebs
The fact that you know 4 people who've had abortions and one person who's had 4 but none feel conflicted about it is the very reason people with an ounce of morality dislike people like you.

Excuse me? Who died and left you in charge of morals? How dare you point fingers at the immoral?

Okay, where in my words did I say that I was in charge of morals. I was merely pointing out to you that the cavalier attitude with which people have abortions is why those with a moral opposition to abortion dislike them. Since you do not know that I have a moral opposition to abortion, it is not logical that you would believe I was pointing the finger at you.


If they had any sort of conscience they'd feel conflicted.

Once again, who the hell do you think you are? Dictating what someone should or should not feel. If you don't like ME thats fine, but you need to leave other peoples feelings out of it. You are the only person that YOU can answer for.

And the fact of the matter is that you can say you hate conservatives but hating anyone makes you a hypocrite. If you truly had an ounce of compassion you would understand that not all people have to believe the same things. No one in this post said that they want to murder anyone or hurt anyone.

Again with the no compassion. Tell me who you are in the rankings of life. Why are YOU so important that you can dictate how I am supposed to be? I understand that not everone feels like me. Is it ok for me not to like them? I think so.

Yes, I believe it's okay that people disagree. It is you who seem to have a problem recognizing the validity of other's beliefs. It is also okay that you do not like others who feel differently than you, all I said was that it makes you hypocritical. I did not say it was illegal.

Only you. So who's the neanderthal? Those that are against killing an innocent or those that believe that sex should not have consequences, sometimes unpleasant ones, yes. But the majority of abortions could be avoided if abstinence and safe sex were practiced by the majority. There have been studies out there showing how many abortions are due to rape, incest or because of medical reasons. They are not the majority althoughthey may be the majority of late term ones.

Do you abstain? Do you practice safe sex? Do you educate children on safe sex? Do you pass out condoms in high schools? Or are you one of the people that think ignorance is bliss?

My abstinence or safe sex is not the issue. I am not the one claiming that abortion should or shouldn't be legal.

Andy my posts have been in response to others who claim that nobody has the right to decide what's legal based on their own moral code but that they have the right to tell me that regardless of my moral code, I have to support, through taxes, actions I would not otherwise support.

Listen, if you don't want to pay your damn taxes, then don't pay them. But get your money out of my face and wipe your ass with it, if thats what you want to do.

Take that up with the government, I have no control over where your frickin tax money goes. I don't like the fact that my tax money is going to pay for a stupid war in Iraq. What can I do about it? Blame the Iraqis? Sheesh!

Perhaps you've heard the phrase "taxation without representation". It's kind of an important concept to our country. It's certainly my right, no- my duty, to represent my beliefs to the people who control the laws of this country. Especially, I might add, those who control the purse strings. So, if you do not want your tax dollars spent in a certain way do what most reasonable people in this country do: petition the government for a redress of grievances.

Who said adoption isn't a good option? All I said is that it isn't a good option for me at this time. People shouldn't be making babies if they want to abort, and people shouldn't adopt unless they can offer that person a decent life.

No way, if adoption isn't good for everyone, it can't be good for anyone.

I can offer no response to this non sequitor.

Once again, I'm going to ask. Do you know anyone who wakes up in the morning and says "geeeeee I want to have an abortion soooooo bad!" ???

Adoption is a good option and there is quite a long waiting list for those interested in doing so.

Really? I always thought there were thousands of kids in and out of foster homes. Orphanages and that type of thing.

Most of the children of which you speak became part of the welfare system at a later age than a newborn comes up for adoption. Without saying what's right or wrong, the fact is that older children do not get adopted as readily as babies for all sorts of reasons.

Anal sex between men is far from natural. This is only my opinion though, so take it for what it's worth

Hahaha. And why is that your opinion? You had to come to that conclusion some how.

Then you don't get pregnant if you don't want to bring a child into this cruel world! See how easy that decision is? Waiting until you are already pregnant to make that decision is irresponsible.

So, being married. If I don't want kids I'm supposed to abstain? Right. If my birthcontrol fails, then I am just forced to live with it? I don't think so.

Once again, we're not debating the legality or morality of abortions conducted early in a pregnancy when an "oops" occasion arises.

Ummm...ok, whatever. Am I supposed to be insulted because you don't like me? *boo hoo* - but you know what, late term abortion is still now illegal - deal with it.

So, you are in favor of women dying? Because that is what that ban did. ILLEGAL.. no expections. Dying mother or not. "BItch will die, I don't care. As long as the fetus doesn't grow up to be Gay. In that case, they should be locked up"

Yes, your reasoning has made me see the light

As for your next post about your thoughts being compelling and articulate, I beg to differ. My tone and my thoughts are perfectly respectful of your opposing view. You, however, have resorted to foul language, finger pointing and emotional diatribes.

 

[Keebs]

Sure I did! Why don't women decide they don't want babies BEFORE having sex? And don't give me that crap about failed methods, it's YOUR duty to ensure you don't get pregnant - not the unborn childs.

Where does it say that it is your duty to protect unborn children? Why aren't you fighting in CHina where they have forced abortion? Or did you not know there was people outside of America?

Take what rights away? Their rights to have been born as opposed to aborted?

You know, abortion is still legal. Abortion is still in the constitution. But the constitution only applies for gun laws. Right?



Who started with the whining? YOU DID. And I won't ignore you and I'll reply when I feel it's necessary, and there's nothing you'll do about that either! Sucks for you to have so many things to deal with.

Oh oh, so because I joined a message board, and you don't agree with what I have to say, I'm whiney? Please.

Keep replying. You don't really say anything important, in fact, neither do I. Maybe its just fun watching how flustered you people get when someone with different beliefs come in.

Look, you came here and immediately started in with your trash talking. You could have debated politely and the attitude would have been returned in kind. If you don't like the responses you get, well then, tough shit!

*laughs* show me the post where I "came here and immediately started talkin trash" .. I didn't get immpolite until Frenchy started in with her immoral no compasionate crap. Then everyone followed suit.

Now, can you comment on my "bleeding heart = unmoral, no compassion" comment? Or was that too true to touch?

Go have anal sex. Go get pregnant. Go have abortions. These are all your rights. Your an idiot, but I suppose that's your right too. What a lovely set of examples your pathetic marriage sets.

Who am I setting an example for? Aborted children? Rush Limbaugh ditto heads? Please. Make some sense.

 

[Isaac Brock]

I have debated entering this argument as I think it is a hot topic and the debate rarely comes out as a coherent argument, most unfortunately. In many ways it is impossible to disconnect the emotion from the argument. However I'll try to offer a voice of moderation with trepidation (It's hard walking on glass!)

First, 3rd trimester abortions, I think are wrong unless the woman's life is in critical jeopardy, which I think should always take priority. The baby is obviously formed.

It seems this whole debate has of course come back to the fundamental question of whether abortion is right. Without dancing too much around the point, I must say that I don't know where I stand. I certainly see some argument from both sides. I know as a student of science, that pathways necessary to form the brain of an infant is formed at the four week marker of life. In many ways, that is a point where you could argue a human "soul" could find the necessary means for developping sentience in an infant brain. I could certainly see the point that after that point, the fetus is in all respects a human being. I suppose then you could say from a strictly technical point, abortion is murder. Before the one month point, I'm not convinced scientifically speaking that the fetus has the means to hold a conscience or perhaps, a soul. I am however always looking for enlightenment and hardly consider myself all-knowing on that subject. (I'm an engineer, not a doctor! )

However, emotions aside (and i do not wish to tread on toes) the question is, does the mother have a right to her own body with an unborn child? I will not profess to know the answer to that question. But perhaps that is a better place to start an argument.

Another interesting perhaps more theologic question would be, assuming you believe in the human soul, would does a person's soul enter their physical body? As a side question, if God was all knowing, why would he/she place a soul in a vessel he/she knows will be aborted. Tough questions that I do not profess in the very least to know, but interesting thought problems nonetheless.

However, one thing i do know about this subject is that both sides must realize that logically, neither of them can be 100% sure that they know all the answers to the undoubtably tough question. Perhaps, that is my way of saying that there should be tolerance, not necessarily towards the subject itself, but to the people who have opinion on abortion.

I'm sorry if I seemed somewhat emotionally dettached on this debate, I couldn't not see any other way to have a fair discourse. It would seem I can't tear myself away from moderation.

 

[Creek]

WOW.....(smile)...No,I didnt read all the posts,and I should of..I stuck my foot in my mouth on that...

Not sure either if I could find any insults from you to quote you on either...(ya got me)...

I'm honest...and stick up for my friends,that's more than anything a person can put on paper..

Please be nice....and we will be too...This is a hard topic,and I can only express from the heart how I feel about it...and so can all of us......please not lets argue this topic..

I know people too...on both sides of the fence when it comes to abortion....It hurts me,and has hurt others....I just weigh the sorrow of it,and feel it outways everything you said....I disaggree..and can't throw up stats,or declare what's right..and wrong either....Lets just calm...it's been a sad enough day here..as it is......Sorry I called you a guy,and I see great qualities in you as a person just reading your posts...see it in us too...Before we all end up calling eachother bad names...cause that's where this topic is going....and making anger in the air too....

Creek