Paul Krugman "hits the nail on the head" in re: Obamacare

[Amelia]

Obama and the Democrats had a chance to do something good. They had a mandate to do something good.

They blew it.

They could have taken the time to craft good legislation. While they were crafting good legislation, they could have spent that time showing America how good that legislation was so they could get a majority of the nation behind their efforts.

Instead of taking the time to make good law, the Democrats lied and they played shameful parliamentary games.

And now the nation knows what a lying scuzball Obama chose to be instead of the president he could have been.

 

[iamwhatiseem]

are you allergic to sources?

As to the OP, Repubs had their chance and they blew it. Now they're complaining that someone did what they refused to address from 2000-2006 when they had complete control of the gubmint?

yes yes...it is so much better to pass Holy Cow bad legislature than to maintain a system where 85% of the people were happy with. Yes...I totally see your point there. Good Job.
The "Repubs" had a lot of good ideas that fell on deaf ears.
The system needed fixing, no doubt, now it needs a transplant.

 

[deltex1]

Charles Krauthammer: Story of the year - The Washington Post

 

[boedicca]

are you allergic to sources?

As to the OP, Repubs had their chance and they blew it. Now they're complaining that someone did what they refused to address from 2000-2006 when they had complete control of the gubmint?

Oh yeah! Cuz more expensive Substandard ObamaCare plans are So Much Bettah than less expensive Substandard private sector plans.

 

[iamwhatiseem]

Charles Krauthammer: Story of the year - The Washington Post

Charles, once again and again and again - get's it right. Oh...even better...he hits the nail on the head. While Krugman is still trying to figure out how you screw the nail in.
Krauthammer - the real thing.
And I say again also - ANYONE still defending this disaster is either a partisan zealot or just plain dumb.

 

[itfitzme]

7 letters:

context

lets not forget the subsidies either. You KNOW some of the mouth-breathing Teapublican voters on this site are getting a subsidy under the new law not to mention no exclusions for pre-existing conditions, no lifetime caps on receiving HC (the old insurance co death panels ), Children on plan until 26, refunds, etc...

FACT SHEET: Middle Class Americans Saving Billions under the Health Care Law?s Medical Loss Ratio Refunds | The White House

Yes...and there are plenty of people NOT getting a subsidy.
40% copay and $7000 - $10,000 deductible is not insurance. It is pretend insurance.
And let's not forget, that on January 1 - there will be less people insured than before...then let's also not forget that the employer mandate will kick in late next year - which will almost certainly mean that, again, January 1, 2015 - less people will be insured than before ACA as there will absolutely be mass exits out of the system by employers.

You say that like you have preordained knowledge of the future. How would one forget what hasn't occured yet? Really? "certainly"? Would that be to a 95% confidence?

 

[iamwhatiseem]

lets not forget the subsidies either. You KNOW some of the mouth-breathing Teapublican voters on this site are getting a subsidy under the new law not to mention no exclusions for pre-existing conditions, no lifetime caps on receiving HC (the old insurance co death panels ), Children on plan until 26, refunds, etc...

FACT SHEET: Middle Class Americans Saving Billions under the Health Care Law?s Medical Loss Ratio Refunds | The White House

Yes...and there are plenty of people NOT getting a subsidy.
40% copay and $7000 - $10,000 deductible is not insurance. It is pretend insurance.
And let's not forget, that on January 1 - there will be less people insured than before...then let's also not forget that the employer mandate will kick in late next year - which will almost certainly mean that, again, January 1, 2015 - less people will be insured than before ACA as there will absolutely be mass exits out of the system by employers.

You say that like you have preordained knowledge of the future. How would one forget what hasn't occured yet? Really? "certainly"? Would that be to a 95% confidence?

I said "almost certainly mean..."
1) You are a board member working for a large corporation where you are under constant pressure to maintain/raise stock levels for investors...you can save the company $millions of dollars a year if you vote to pay the penalties instead of keeping employees insured. We all know who will win that one.
2) You are an owner of a mid size company that has been struggling like so many small-mid sized company. You can save $1000's a month by dropping company insurance. We all know what the owner will do.
It isn't hard to predict. And it is precisely why this administration put off the employer mandate until after next years election. Or was that just a convenient coincidence?

 

[Dot Com]

are you allergic to sources?

As to the OP, Repubs had their chance and they blew it. Now they're complaining that someone did what they refused to address from 2000-2006 when they had complete control of the gubmint?

yes yes...it is so much better to pass Holy Cow bad legislature than to maintain a system where 85% of the people were happy with. Yes...I totally see your point there. Good Job.
The "Repubs" had a lot of good ideas that fell on deaf ears.
The system needed fixing, no doubt, now it needs a transplant.

85% of the people were happy w/ rates rising at 3X the rate of wages?

Health-care premiums rise three times faster than wages - CSMonitor.com

 

[itfitzme]

Yes...and there are plenty of people NOT getting a subsidy.
40% copay and $7000 - $10,000 deductible is not insurance. It is pretend insurance.
And let's not forget, that on January 1 - there will be less people insured than before...then let's also not forget that the employer mandate will kick in late next year - which will almost certainly mean that, again, January 1, 2015 - less people will be insured than before ACA as there will absolutely be mass exits out of the system by employers.

You say that like you have preordained knowledge of the future. How would one forget what hasn't occured yet? Really? "certainly"? Would that be to a 95% confidence?

I said "almost certainly mean..."
1) You are a board member working for a large corporation where you are under constant pressure to maintain/raise stock levels for investors...you can save the company $millions of dollars a year if you vote to pay the penalties instead of keeping employees insured. We all know who will win that one.
2) You are an owner of a mid size company that has been struggling like so many small-mid sized company. You can save $1000's a month by dropping company insurance. We all know what the owner will do.
It isn't hard to predict. And it is precisely why this administration put off the employer mandate until after next years election. Or was that just a convenient coincidence?

let's not forget, that on January 1 - there will be less people insured than before

Kinda hard to "not forget" something that hasn't happened yet.

"Almost certainly", like what, 95% confidence level? 60%? How "certain" are you? Based on what, a "feeling"?

Looks like just a bunch of unqualified assertions to me.

After all, how many companies offered health insurance before the PPACA was concieved? Why was that? Oh yeah, competition on the demand side in the labor market.

How is this, for 2012, Percent of Private Sector Establishments That Offer Health Insurance to Employees | The Henry J. Kaiser Family Foundation

About 50% of total companies. For 2010, that was "More than half of the U.S. population (55.1 percent)"

A good decade change is found at

Fewer businesses provide health insurance - Apr. 15, 2013

"Employee health insurance is on the decline, and for small businesses, it's gone from bad to worse.

The share of small companies providing insurance plummeted from 47% to 38% between the years 2000 and 2011, according to a report from the Robert Wood Johnson Foundation. "

It's got a nice graphic.



So, given an already falling trend, how much more of a drop is your dividing line between what it was doing, and what will be caused by PPACA? To a 95% confidence level?

Or was that drop from 59% to 52% because of the PPACA?

I betcha, come 2015, you won't even look at the 2000 to 2013 stats. Indeed, I betcha had I not pointed them out, it'd never have occured to you to look.

" It isn't hard to predict. " Sure isn't when you never bother to verify your predictions. But, if you say it with enough authority....

And it is really easy to claim to be a mind reader, like " it is precisely why this administration put off the employer mandate". Oh, yeah..... a regular Carnac the Magnificent you are...

It'll be interesting to see what happens, but your "almost certainly " really dont' mean much.

 

[iamwhatiseem]

85% of the people were happyw/ rates rising at 3X the rate of wages?

Now they are rising even faster...still laughing?

 

[itfitzme]

It'd be really nice to be able to compare state health insurance standards before PPACA to PPACA standards. That is kind key.

 

[itfitzme]

85% of the people were happyw/ rates rising at 3X the rate of wages?

Now they are rising even faster...still laughing?

You're head is just full of unqualified, imaginary BS.

 

[itfitzme]

Here is a nice link

Health Insurance Premiums

 

[Dot Com]

85% of the people were happyw/ rates rising at 3X the rate of wages?

Now they are rising even faster...still laughing?

You're head is just full of unqualified, imaginary BS.

true. That lazy or rw'er hasn't evn posted one link. He's merely spamming the thread w/ his "opinions" :yawn:

 

[iamwhatiseem]

85% of the people were happyw/ rates rising at 3X the rate of wages?

Now they are rising even faster...still laughing?

You're head is just full of unqualified, imaginary BS.

I would expect you to think that.
Premiums are not the only cost bub.
Which is better...
PLAN (A)...$670 a month...80/20....$3000 deductible.
PLAN (B)...$550 a month...60/40....$7500 deductible.
Imaginary?

 

[bigrebnc1775]

Are you sure obama wasn't the nail?

 

[Flopper]

7 letters:

context

lets not forget the subsidies either. You KNOW some of the mouth-breathing Teapublican voters on this site are getting a subsidy under the new law not to mention no exclusions for pre-existing conditions, no lifetime caps on receiving HC (the old insurance co death panels ), Children on plan until 26, refunds, etc...

FACT SHEET: Middle Class Americans Saving Billions under the Health Care Law?s Medical Loss Ratio Refunds | The White House

Yes...and there are plenty of people NOT getting a subsidy.
40% copay and $7000 - $10,000 deductible is not insurance. It is pretend insurance.
And let's not forget, that on January 1 - there will be less people insured than before...then let's also not forget that the employer mandate will kick in late next year - which will almost certainly mean that, again, January 1, 2015 - less people will be insured than before ACA as there will absolutely be mass exits out of the system by employers.

Higher deductible insurance with yearly maximums at or near the deductible is certainly not pretend insurance. It does what insurance should do, pay medical expenses that would be financial disastrous for the family while providing free preventive care and placing the responsibility of paying for routine medicare on the policy holder.

All other things being equal, you're better off financially buying high deductible insurance. If you compare the premiums of a high deductible plan with a low deductible plan with the same benefits, you will probably find that you will save a good bit of money by buying the high deductible plan and saving the difference in premiums to apply toward your deductible.

BTW Don't you mean co-insurance, not copy?

 

[Amelia]

lets not forget the subsidies either. You KNOW some of the mouth-breathing Teapublican voters on this site are getting a subsidy under the new law not to mention no exclusions for pre-existing conditions, no lifetime caps on receiving HC (the old insurance co death panels ), Children on plan until 26, refunds, etc...

FACT SHEET: Middle Class Americans Saving Billions under the Health Care Law?s Medical Loss Ratio Refunds | The White House

Yes...and there are plenty of people NOT getting a subsidy.
40% copay and $7000 - $10,000 deductible is not insurance. It is pretend insurance.
And let's not forget, that on January 1 - there will be less people insured than before...then let's also not forget that the employer mandate will kick in late next year - which will almost certainly mean that, again, January 1, 2015 - less people will be insured than before ACA as there will absolutely be mass exits out of the system by employers.

Higher deductible insurance with yearly maximums at or near the deductible is certainly not pretend insurance. It does what insurance should do, pay medical expenses that would be financial disastrous for the family while providing free preventive care and placing the responsibility of paying for routine medicare on the policy holder.

All other things being equal, you're better off financially buying high deductible insurance. If you compare the premiums of a high deductible plan with a low deductible plan with the same benefits, you will probably find that you will save a good bit of money by buying the high deductible plan and saving the difference in premiums to apply toward your deductible.

BTW Don't you mean co-insurance, not copy?

Before when you had this high of deductible, you could get lower premiums. Now they have high premiums and high deductibles at the same time.

Treatments which were covered before now have prohibitive deductibles associated with them so people will opt not to get the healthcare they would have chosen before. What kind of quality of life will people have who can no longer afford pain management therapy thanks to the ACA?



The kicker is that when people choose not to get healthcare because it's so expensive, Obama will probably get credit for lowering healthcare spending in the nation. Another example of spinning a failure as a win. Happens a lot these days.

 

[Flopper]

Yes...and there are plenty of people NOT getting a subsidy.
40% copay and $7000 - $10,000 deductible is not insurance. It is pretend insurance.
And let's not forget, that on January 1 - there will be less people insured than before...then let's also not forget that the employer mandate will kick in late next year - which will almost certainly mean that, again, January 1, 2015 - less people will be insured than before ACA as there will absolutely be mass exits out of the system by employers.

You say that like you have preordained knowledge of the future. How would one forget what hasn't occured yet? Really? "certainly"? Would that be to a 95% confidence?

I said "almost certainly mean..."
1) You are a board member working for a large corporation where you are under constant pressure to maintain/raise stock levels for investors...you can save the company $millions of dollars a year if you vote to pay the penalties instead of keeping employees insured. We all know who will win that one.
2) You are an owner of a mid size company that has been struggling like so many small-mid sized company. You can save $1000's a month by dropping company insurance. We all know what the owner will do.
It isn't hard to predict. And it is precisely why this administration put off the employer mandate until after next years election. Or was that just a convenient coincidence?

Employers began offering health insurance benefits to either satisfy union contracts or as a benefit to compete in labor market. Both reasons are valid today just as they have been in the past. For larger employers the penalty for not offering health insurance is $2,000/ full time employee. This and other considerations are the reason why over 98% of the employers offer health insurance will continue to do so.

Will Your Employer Drop Coverage Under Obamacare? | PBS NewsHour

 

[HenryBHough]

Nails have heads and points.

Krugman surely was speaking metaphorically ONLY.