Paul Ryan says 'if you were raised poor, you’re just as likely to stay poor' as 50 years ago

[HappyJoy]

I'd like to hear more (yes, I can google too) about this. Especially as lower paid (and some not so) jobs are automated.

More about a basic income? Ask away.

How is it funded? Taxes I presume, who pays it?
How does this affect our current tax structure?
What is the UBI tied to, how much?
Are there limitations on what you can do with this money (i.e. cannot buy luxury items)
Do we still have a minimum wage?
Can you have a low paying job and still receive a UBI?
Could this reduce our workforce size?
How about volunteer work to earn UBI if able?

I know, simple questions, I've had a couple beers.

I will admit that I am no expert, but I will do my best to address these.
How is it funded? Well, a UBI is made to replace all of our current "entitlement" programs, so the funding comes from that, and different plans do different things. Some plans want to give a basic income to individuals below that raises them right above the poverty line, and then cut it off once they get above the line, with safeguards in place to prevent abuse. Others want people to have a UBI regardless of income, which is what I personally support, as I feel the latter could be abused/used as as a way to further divide our nation.
The tax structure, I'm sure, would be changed. This can't be answered adequately as no serious UBI plans have taken off in america.
Limitations? No, no limitations, people are free to do what they want with the money, personal freedom and all.
A minimum wage? No need for it with a UBI.
For the low paying job part, in virtually every plan, yes.
Here's a good reading:
The Conservative Case for a Guaranteed Basic Income

The idea isn’t new. As Frum notes, Friederich Hayek endorsed it. In 1962, the libertarian economist Milton Friedman advocated a minimum guaranteed income via a “negative income tax.” In 1967, Martin Luther King Jr. said, “The solution to poverty is to abolish it directly by a now widely discussed measure: the guaranteed income.” Richard Nixon unsuccessfully tried to pass a version of Friedman’s plan a few years later, and his Democratic opponent in the 1972 presidential election, George McGovern, also suggested a guaranteed annual income.

Friedman proposed it for gods sake.
It could definitely reduce our workforce size, but keep in mind, the UBI is a bare minimum, people will need to work to get luxuries.
The volunteer work I'm not sure I understand.

Ok, I need to come back to this...like I said, I've been celebrating and not in the right frame of mind.

I would be concerned that this would replace entitlement programs as they are not all created equal. Disabilities, insurance,children, etc.

I'm also thinking a millionaire has no reason to receive this particular entitlement, seems like putting money in the wrong place however and I'm assuming you're a libertarian, the only fair thing to do in that philosophy would be to distribute evenly? I'm not necessarily for that.

Anyway, I keep typing and then deleting, realizing I really should read more on the subject.

I'm not a libertarian. I do believe in regulations and a strong federal government. But I tend to lean to the "right" on some economic issues.

My apologies, didn't mean anything by it.

Just curious, best estimate, what rate would the UBI be today? We talking about $30k ish per year?

 

[Dovahkiin]

More about a basic income? Ask away.

How is it funded? Taxes I presume, who pays it?
How does this affect our current tax structure?
What is the UBI tied to, how much?
Are there limitations on what you can do with this money (i.e. cannot buy luxury items)
Do we still have a minimum wage?
Can you have a low paying job and still receive a UBI?
Could this reduce our workforce size?
How about volunteer work to earn UBI if able?

I know, simple questions, I've had a couple beers.

I will admit that I am no expert, but I will do my best to address these.
How is it funded? Well, a UBI is made to replace all of our current "entitlement" programs, so the funding comes from that, and different plans do different things. Some plans want to give a basic income to individuals below that raises them right above the poverty line, and then cut it off once they get above the line, with safeguards in place to prevent abuse. Others want people to have a UBI regardless of income, which is what I personally support, as I feel the latter could be abused/used as as a way to further divide our nation.
The tax structure, I'm sure, would be changed. This can't be answered adequately as no serious UBI plans have taken off in america.
Limitations? No, no limitations, people are free to do what they want with the money, personal freedom and all.
A minimum wage? No need for it with a UBI.
For the low paying job part, in virtually every plan, yes.
Here's a good reading:
The Conservative Case for a Guaranteed Basic Income

The idea isn’t new. As Frum notes, Friederich Hayek endorsed it. In 1962, the libertarian economist Milton Friedman advocated a minimum guaranteed income via a “negative income tax.” In 1967, Martin Luther King Jr. said, “The solution to poverty is to abolish it directly by a now widely discussed measure: the guaranteed income.” Richard Nixon unsuccessfully tried to pass a version of Friedman’s plan a few years later, and his Democratic opponent in the 1972 presidential election, George McGovern, also suggested a guaranteed annual income.

Friedman proposed it for gods sake.
It could definitely reduce our workforce size, but keep in mind, the UBI is a bare minimum, people will need to work to get luxuries.
The volunteer work I'm not sure I understand.

Ok, I need to come back to this...like I said, I've been celebrating and not in the right frame of mind.

I would be concerned that this would replace entitlement programs as they are not all created equal. Disabilities, insurance,children, etc.

I'm also thinking a millionaire has no reason to receive this particular entitlement, seems like putting money in the wrong place however and I'm assuming you're a libertarian, the only fair thing to do in that philosophy would be to distribute evenly? I'm not necessarily for that.

Anyway, I keep typing and then deleting, realizing I really should read more on the subject.

I'm not a libertarian. I do believe in regulations and a strong federal government. But I tend to lean to the "right" on some economic issues.

My apologies, didn't mean anything by it.

Just curious, best estimate, what rate would the UBI be today? We talking about $30k ish per year?

index - BasicIncome

In the United States, using the 2014 Federal Poverty Guidelines as a guide, to universally prevent poverty would require a basic income level of $12,000 (also considered an appropriate amount using a ground up analysis) for everyone over the age of 18, along with a partial basic income of $4,000 for everyone under the age of 18. According to /u/2noame, this particular plan would require $2.98 trillion in total revenue ($2.7 trillion for 18+ and $276 billion for 1 to cover all U.S. citizens, or after the elimination of current government pensions and welfare programs, $1.28 trillion USD.
As of August 2014, Cato Institute’s Michael Tanner (PDF), calculates that adding "another $284 of welfare spending [to existing federal welfare alone] at the state and local level, and you’ve got almost $1 trillion dollars of government spending on welfare - over $20,000 for every poor person in the United States (Zwolinski, Matt. The Pragmatic Libertarian Case for a Basic Income Guarantee).
Any meaningful basic income figure must respond to changes in livable incomes for the locale in which it is instituted. It should not be an arbitrarily-decided static number which fails to be revisited and updated over time. One alternative is to set the basic income level as a fixed percentage of median income (as of 2012, 50% of US median income is $26,523) or GDP/capita (in 2014, 50% of US GDP/capita is $27,650). Another idea is to have congress periodically vote on the basic income: each congressman proposes a desired value, and the median proposal is used for the next year. If implemented by the states, state congresses would vote.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

My Uncle was a Prison guard, and I grew up on a small lot of land that he rented from the state, so I grew up poor, and I am no longer poor...

It is the individual choice to stay in a lower income life or rise above it, and achieve to become more...

Exactly.

My father grew up in a house with no running water or electricity. He and his seven siblings had to use an outhouse in the back yard when they had to go, and that's not easy in winter up here in the Cleveland area. They were on welfare, but welfare back then meant kids pulling their red wagon to the fire station five miles away, and having them fill it up with fruits and vegetables.

My father (nor any of my uncles or aunts) ever spent a day in jail yet alone prison. All but one grew up to learn trades and raised their families. Most of the men joined the military and fought in Korea. They lost their parents at a very young age, and the older siblings went to work to help support the younger ones.

Today, we consider the poor as people who have government cell phones, overweight thanks to the SNAP's program, and live in the suburbs under HUD. And then liberals can't figure out why they stay poor.

Okay, my father lived in a much different era. But what about foreigners who really grew up poor, came here barely knowing the language, worked night and day until they were able to buy their own franchise restaurant, 7-11, or even a beverage store? How did they do it and our "so called" poor can't?

 

[francoHFW]

IE, keep cutting pay, raising taxes on the nonrich, and making college more expensive, and you get the GOP Banana Republic of tomorrow...

The GOP isn't intentionally cutting pay.
The GOP never raises taxes, or that's what they say.
The price of college is a complicated one.

THEY JUST WRECKED UNIONS AND REFUSE TO RAISE THE RIDICULOUS MIN WAGE.
They cut fed taxes, then state and local and payroll taxes went up in reaction. All nonrich taxes.
Cut fed aid to state U's, gave loans to a-hole banks. DONE!

 

[SwimExpert]

What does he know about poor since he never was?

You're absolutely right. Ryan's wrong, dead wrong. The war on poverty has been working really well. In fact, it's worked so well that poverty doesn't really exist nowadays. So let's go ahead and get rid of all those "help the poor people" policies, we don't need them anymore. Income inequality is nearly non existent, so no need to raise the minimum wage. No need to tax the wealthy. Everything's fine just as it is.

I really do love fucking idiots who can't win for losing.

 

[francoHFW]

My Uncle was a Prison guard, and I grew up on a small lot of land that he rented from the state, so I grew up poor, and I am no longer poor...

It is the individual choice to stay in a lower income life or rise above it, and achieve to become more...

Exactly.

My father grew up in a house with no running water or electricity. He and his seven siblings had to use an outhouse in the back yard when they had to go, and that's not easy in winter up here in the Cleveland area. They were on welfare, but welfare back then meant kids pulling their red wagon to the fire station five miles away, and having them fill it up with fruits and vegetables.

My father (nor any of my uncles or aunts) ever spent a day in jail yet alone prison. All but one grew up to learn trades and raised their families. Most of the men joined the military and fought in Korea. They lost their parents at a very young age, and the older siblings went to work to help support the younger ones.

Today, we consider the poor as people who have government cell phones, overweight thanks to the SNAP's program, and live in the suburbs under HUD. And then liberals can't figure out why they stay poor.

Okay, my father lived in a much different era. But what about foreigners who really grew up poor, came here barely knowing the language, worked night and day until they were able to buy their own franchise restaurant, 7-11, or even a beverage store? How did they do it and our "so called" poor can't?

They're overweight because cheap food is crap processed food.

Many don't prosper, even with huge families in tiny apts...it just keeps getting tougher under GOP pander to the rich, wreck the nonrich policies. See sig.

 

[francoHFW]

What does he know about poor since he never was?

You're absolutely right. Ryan's wrong, dead wrong. The war on poverty has been working really well. In fact, it's worked so well that poverty doesn't really exist nowadays. So let's go ahead and get rid of all those "help the poor people" policies, we don't need them anymore. Income inequality is nearly non existent, so no need to raise the minimum wage. No need to tax the wealthy. Everything's fine just as it is.

I really do love fucking idiots who can't win for losing.

The war on poverty ended with Nixon...idiot.

 

[SwimExpert]

What does he know about poor since he never was?

You're absolutely right. Ryan's wrong, dead wrong. The war on poverty has been working really well. In fact, it's worked so well that poverty doesn't really exist nowadays. So let's go ahead and get rid of all those "help the poor people" policies, we don't need them anymore. Income inequality is nearly non existent, so no need to raise the minimum wage. No need to tax the wealthy. Everything's fine just as it is.

I really do love fucking idiots who can't win for losing.

The war on poverty ended with Nixon...idiot.

And the war on intelligence began with you and rdean.

 

[francoHFW]

What does he know about poor since he never was?

You're absolutely right. Ryan's wrong, dead wrong. The war on poverty has been working really well. In fact, it's worked so well that poverty doesn't really exist nowadays. So let's go ahead and get rid of all those "help the poor people" policies, we don't need them anymore. Income inequality is nearly non existent, so no need to raise the minimum wage. No need to tax the wealthy. Everything's fine just as it is.

I really do love fucking idiots who can't win for losing.

The war on poverty ended with Nixon...idiot.

And the war on intelligence began with you and rdean.

Obviously, that began with Rush and Fox Noise.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Paul Ryan is correct, according to a very recent well supported paper. The "war on poverty" has not been very successful, we need to look at new solutions. History has shown us that both sides are in the wrong, what we need is a real change. I find myself in favor of a universal basic income, something both sides should get behind, in my honest opinion. Something has to change. (It's a shame none of the candidates support a UBI.)
Paul Ryan says 'if you were raised poor, you’re just as likely to stay poor' as 50 years ago

Ryan wrote that "today, if you were raised poor, you’re just as likely to stay poor as you were 50 years ago." His support for this claim – a respected academic paper published in 2014 – found exactly what Ryan described. We rate the claim True.

Ryan and the Republicans have no solutions to this problem, other than the perverse notion that if you make poverty more painful, poor people will magically leap out of poverty to avoid the pain.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

My Uncle was a Prison guard, and I grew up on a small lot of land that he rented from the state, so I grew up poor, and I am no longer poor...

It is the individual choice to stay in a lower income life or rise above it, and achieve to become more...

Exactly.

My father grew up in a house with no running water or electricity. He and his seven siblings had to use an outhouse in the back yard when they had to go, and that's not easy in winter up here in the Cleveland area. They were on welfare, but welfare back then meant kids pulling their red wagon to the fire station five miles away, and having them fill it up with fruits and vegetables.

My father (nor any of my uncles or aunts) ever spent a day in jail yet alone prison. All but one grew up to learn trades and raised their families. Most of the men joined the military and fought in Korea. They lost their parents at a very young age, and the older siblings went to work to help support the younger ones.

Today, we consider the poor as people who have government cell phones, overweight thanks to the SNAP's program, and live in the suburbs under HUD. And then liberals can't figure out why they stay poor.

Okay, my father lived in a much different era. But what about foreigners who really grew up poor, came here barely knowing the language, worked night and day until they were able to buy their own franchise restaurant, 7-11, or even a beverage store? How did they do it and our "so called" poor can't?

They're overweight because cheap food is crap processed food.

Many don't prosper, even with huge families in tiny apts...it just keeps getting tougher under GOP pander to the rich, wreck the nonrich policies. See sig.

Dumbospam crosspost troll.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

IE, keep cutting pay, raising taxes on the nonrich, and making college more expensive, and you get the GOP Banana Republic of tomorrow...

The GOP isn't intentionally cutting pay.
The GOP never raises taxes, or that's what they say.
The price of college is a complicated one.

THEY JUST WRECKED UNIONS AND REFUSE TO RAISE THE RIDICULOUS MIN WAGE.
They cut fed taxes, then state and local and payroll taxes went up in reaction. All nonrich taxes.
Cut fed aid to state U's, gave loans to a-hole banks. DONE!

You don't need the feds to raise the minimum wage, have your Governor do it. In fact, have him or her raise your minimum wage to $20.00 per hour for all we care. Go for it, you only live once.

 

[francoHFW]

My Uncle was a Prison guard, and I grew up on a small lot of land that he rented from the state, so I grew up poor, and I am no longer poor...

It is the individual choice to stay in a lower income life or rise above it, and achieve to become more...

Exactly.

My father grew up in a house with no running water or electricity. He and his seven siblings had to use an outhouse in the back yard when they had to go, and that's not easy in winter up here in the Cleveland area. They were on welfare, but welfare back then meant kids pulling their red wagon to the fire station five miles away, and having them fill it up with fruits and vegetables.

My father (nor any of my uncles or aunts) ever spent a day in jail yet alone prison. All but one grew up to learn trades and raised their families. Most of the men joined the military and fought in Korea. They lost their parents at a very young age, and the older siblings went to work to help support the younger ones.

Today, we consider the poor as people who have government cell phones, overweight thanks to the SNAP's program, and live in the suburbs under HUD. And then liberals can't figure out why they stay poor.

Okay, my father lived in a much different era. But what about foreigners who really grew up poor, came here barely knowing the language, worked night and day until they were able to buy their own franchise restaurant, 7-11, or even a beverage store? How did they do it and our "so called" poor can't?

They're overweight because cheap food is crap processed food.

Many don't prosper, even with huge families in tiny apts...it just keeps getting tougher under GOP pander to the rich, wreck the nonrich policies. See sig.

Dumbospam crosspost troll.

More facts, less anecdotes please.

 

[francoHFW]

IE, keep cutting pay, raising taxes on the nonrich, and making college more expensive, and you get the GOP Banana Republic of tomorrow...

The GOP isn't intentionally cutting pay.
The GOP never raises taxes, or that's what they say.
The price of college is a complicated one.

THEY JUST WRECKED UNIONS AND REFUSE TO RAISE THE RIDICULOUS MIN WAGE.
They cut fed taxes, then state and local and payroll taxes went up in reaction. All nonrich taxes.
Cut fed aid to state U's, gave loans to a-hole banks. DONE!

You don't need the feds to raise the minimum wage, have your Governor do it. In fact, have him or her raise your minimum wage to $20.00 per hour for all we care. Go for it, you only live once.

Unfortunately, the GOP governors and the dupes ruin that...the old states rights RW bs.

 

[Dovahkiin]

Paul Ryan is correct, according to a very recent well supported paper. The "war on poverty" has not been very successful, we need to look at new solutions. History has shown us that both sides are in the wrong, what we need is a real change. I find myself in favor of a universal basic income, something both sides should get behind, in my honest opinion. Something has to change. (It's a shame none of the candidates support a UBI.)
Paul Ryan says 'if you were raised poor, you’re just as likely to stay poor' as 50 years ago

Ryan wrote that "today, if you were raised poor, you’re just as likely to stay poor as you were 50 years ago." His support for this claim – a respected academic paper published in 2014 – found exactly what Ryan described. We rate the claim True.

Ryan and the Republicans have no solutions to this problem, other than the perverse notion that if you make poverty more painful, poor people will magically leap out of poverty to avoid the pain.

I don't think Ryan, who doesn't represent all republicans, wants to punish people in poverty like we've seen in the past. He actually has a plan.

 

[Dovahkiin]

What does he know about poor since he never was?

You're absolutely right. Ryan's wrong, dead wrong. The war on poverty has been working really well. In fact, it's worked so well that poverty doesn't really exist nowadays. So let's go ahead and get rid of all those "help the poor people" policies, we don't need them anymore. Income inequality is nearly non existent, so no need to raise the minimum wage. No need to tax the wealthy. Everything's fine just as it is.

I really do love fucking idiots who can't win for losing.

Sarcastic post?

 

[Weatherman2020]

What does he know about poor since he never was?

Dumbest comment possible.
Moron thinks there are no experts in astronomy because no one has been a planet.

 

[Dovahkiin]

What does he know about poor since he never was?

Dumbest comment possible.
Moron thinks there are no experts in astronomy because no one has been a planet.

His post is just as bad as the posts that sweep all poverty under one cause and solution. (Example: I was poor and I'm not anymore, therefore, all poor people simply need to work and that's the only reason they're poor.)

 

[rdean]

My Uncle was a Prison guard, and I grew up on a small lot of land that he rented from the state, so I grew up poor, and I am no longer poor...

It is the individual choice to stay in a lower income life or rise above it, and achieve to become more...

It's work with a lot of luck. No one wants to be poor. Don't say stupid. Stupid is ugly.

 

[rdean]

What does he know about poor since he never was?

Dumbest comment possible.
Moron thinks there are no experts in astronomy because no one has been a planet.

Yea, because being poor in a ghetto is exactly the same as astronomy.