Pilot to TSA: 'No Groping Me and No Naked Photos'

[syrenn]

One of the things i love is that you are not allowed to carry knives. However in first class your are given two metal knives and forks.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

What the fuck? civil liberties? Hey stupid you do NOT have a right to fly. PERIOD.

Actually, you do.

US v Guest and Shapiro v Thompson clearly give us the right to travel without restriction, and no sane person could possibly claim that does not apply to flying.

You are wrong, you have a right to fly, you do NOT have a right to board an airliner. IOW if you own a private plane you have the right to fly it, providing you have a license or a licenses pilot, you do NOT have a right to board Southwest Airlines flight 23. IF that were the case then airlines couldn't refuse to let you board if you were drunk , for example. BUt they can. Because you don't have a right.

If I have a ticket to Southwest flight 23 I have a right to board that flight. Or do you think the government has the right to interfere in a private contract I make with another private entity?

BTW, you cannot get onto your own plane at a major airport unless you go through screening, so your argument does not fly even if you manage to prove that the government can take away my right to contract with someone.

 

[ConHog]

Actually, you do.

US v Guest and Shapiro v Thompson clearly give us the right to travel without restriction, and no sane person could possibly claim that does not apply to flying.

You are wrong, you have a right to fly, you do NOT have a right to board an airliner. IOW if you own a private plane you have the right to fly it, providing you have a license or a licenses pilot, you do NOT have a right to board Southwest Airlines flight 23. IF that were the case then airlines couldn't refuse to let you board if you were drunk , for example. BUt they can. Because you don't have a right.

If I have a ticket to Southwest flight 23 I have a right to board that flight. Or do you think the government has the right to interfere in a private contract I make with another private entity?

BTW, you cannot get onto your own plane at a major airport unless you go through screening, so your argument does not fly even if you manage to prove that the government can take away my right to contract with someone.

NO, you do NOT have a right. Southwest can bump you at any time, or otherwise prevent you from boarding. They do it all the time. sure they have to provide you a refund, but you have no recourse if they do so.

Dealing with TSA is just part of the bargain if you wish to deal with airlines. As for screening, you're correct if you're flying from a a major airport, but I have 300 acres, I could cut out a runway buy a Cessna and fly anytime I wished with no need to mess with TSA. I have a right to do that, again provided I jump through all the hoops.

I don't think you would EVER find a court willing to rule that you have a right to board a commercial flight.

 

[syrenn]

You are wrong, you have a right to fly, you do NOT have a right to board an airliner. IOW if you own a private plane you have the right to fly it, providing you have a license or a licenses pilot, you do NOT have a right to board Southwest Airlines flight 23. IF that were the case then airlines couldn't refuse to let you board if you were drunk , for example. BUt they can. Because you don't have a right.

If I have a ticket to Southwest flight 23 I have a right to board that flight. Or do you think the government has the right to interfere in a private contract I make with another private entity?

BTW, you cannot get onto your own plane at a major airport unless you go through screening, so your argument does not fly even if you manage to prove that the government can take away my right to contract with someone.

NO, you do NOT have a right. Southwest can bump you at any time, or otherwise prevent you from boarding. They do it all the time. sure they have to provide you a refund, but you have no recourse if they do so.

Dealing with TSA is just part of the bargain if you wish to deal with airlines. As for screening, you're correct if you're flying from a a major airport, but I have 300 acres, I could cut out a runway buy a Cessna and fly anytime I wished with no need to mess with TSA. I have a right to do that, again provided I jump through all the hoops.

I don't think you would EVER find a court willing to rule that you have a right to board a commercial flight.

It want part of the bargain prior to 9-11.

 

[ConHog]

If I have a ticket to Southwest flight 23 I have a right to board that flight. Or do you think the government has the right to interfere in a private contract I make with another private entity?

BTW, you cannot get onto your own plane at a major airport unless you go through screening, so your argument does not fly even if you manage to prove that the government can take away my right to contract with someone.

NO, you do NOT have a right. Southwest can bump you at any time, or otherwise prevent you from boarding. They do it all the time. sure they have to provide you a refund, but you have no recourse if they do so.

Dealing with TSA is just part of the bargain if you wish to deal with airlines. As for screening, you're correct if you're flying from a a major airport, but I have 300 acres, I could cut out a runway buy a Cessna and fly anytime I wished with no need to mess with TSA. I have a right to do that, again provided I jump through all the hoops.

I don't think you would EVER find a court willing to rule that you have a right to board a commercial flight.

It want part of the bargain prior to 9-11.

That is true, and in the 1960s I understand that you didn't even have to show ID to board a plane just a ticket.

Surely you agree that there are valid reasons for things to change.

 

[syrenn]

NO, you do NOT have a right. Southwest can bump you at any time, or otherwise prevent you from boarding. They do it all the time. sure they have to provide you a refund, but you have no recourse if they do so.

Dealing with TSA is just part of the bargain if you wish to deal with airlines. As for screening, you're correct if you're flying from a a major airport, but I have 300 acres, I could cut out a runway buy a Cessna and fly anytime I wished with no need to mess with TSA. I have a right to do that, again provided I jump through all the hoops.

I don't think you would EVER find a court willing to rule that you have a right to board a commercial flight.

It want part of the bargain prior to 9-11.

That is true, and in the 1960s I understand that you didn't even have to show ID to board a plane just a ticket.

Surely you agree that there are valid reasons for things to change.

Yes and no. Im my opinion they need to profile. Why search a baby and let someone who looks shifty pass through? If someone wants to accompany someone to the gate or pick someone up from the gate...so long as they go through the screening process they should be allowed to do that. I have seen far to many women with babies and elderly having to deal alone.

Speaking as someone who fly's quite a bit, I feel that what they do is mostly ineffectual. I have seen the do the DUMBEST SHIT. I know they pick women out to "search" ...and yes i have watched them with heads together ....yeah HER...and low and behold...she is getting patted down...searched....and if available..put through the scanner.

Is that abuse of the system..sure. BUT they do it. Little people with a bit of power to MAKE you comply. You want to fly..sorry hun..your getting grouped.

You want security, how about his.

If Disney can biometricly scan people for entrance to amusement parks...the the TSA should damn well do it too.

 

[ConHog]

It want part of the bargain prior to 9-11.

That is true, and in the 1960s I understand that you didn't even have to show ID to board a plane just a ticket.

Surely you agree that there are valid reasons for things to change.

Yes and no. Im my opinion they need to profile. Why search a baby and let someone who looks shifty pass through? If someone wants to accompany someone to the gate or pick someone up from the gate...so long as they go through the screening process they should be allowed to do that. I have seen far to many women with babies and elderly having to deal alone.

Speaking as someone who fly's quite a bit, I feel that what they do is mostly ineffectual. I have seen the do the DUMBEST SHIT. I know they pick women out to "search" ...and yes i have watched them with heads together ....yeah HER...and low and behold...she is getting patted down...searched....and if available..put through the scanner.

Is that abuse of the system..sure. BUT they do it. Little people with a bit of power to MAKE you comply. You want to fly..sorry hun..your getting grouped.

You want security, how about his.

If Disney can biometricly scan people for entrance to amusement parks...the the TSA should damn well do it too.

I agree with profiling completely . It's not racism, it's just good police procedure. I've said so many times. It's why when they FBI thinks they have a serial killer, they look for a white male in his late 20s. That's their probable suspect, not a 40 y/o black woman , for example.

But there are certain procedures that EVERYONE should go through, just in case, when you're talking about hundreds of people's safety . Sorry that it inconveniences some, but that's the world we live in.

 

[Toome]

Sorry, folks. But the pilot comes across as a whining little crybaby. I hope he gets fired. There is a right way to handle things and a wrong way. This pilot handled the situation unprofessionally.

 

[syrenn]

That is true, and in the 1960s I understand that you didn't even have to show ID to board a plane just a ticket.

Surely you agree that there are valid reasons for things to change.

Yes and no. Im my opinion they need to profile. Why search a baby and let someone who looks shifty pass through? If someone wants to accompany someone to the gate or pick someone up from the gate...so long as they go through the screening process they should be allowed to do that. I have seen far to many women with babies and elderly having to deal alone.

Speaking as someone who fly's quite a bit, I feel that what they do is mostly ineffectual. I have seen the do the DUMBEST SHIT. I know they pick women out to "search" ...and yes i have watched them with heads together ....yeah HER...and low and behold...she is getting patted down...searched....and if available..put through the scanner.

Is that abuse of the system..sure. BUT they do it. Little people with a bit of power to MAKE you comply. You want to fly..sorry hun..your getting grouped.

You want security, how about his.

If Disney can biometricly scan people for entrance to amusement parks...the the TSA should damn well do it too.

I agree with profiling completely . It's not racism, it's just good police procedure. I've said so many times. It's why when they FBI thinks they have a serial killer, they look for a white male in his late 20s. That's their probable suspect, not a 40 y/o black woman , for example.

But there are certain procedures that EVERYONE should go through, just in case, when you're talking about hundreds of people's safety . Sorry that it inconveniences some, but that's the world we live in.

I agree, but a good deal of those procedures are asinine. I feel MOST of the tsa are complete incompetent idiots.

If they want to image people i think that thermal imagery is the way to go, not this image strip search they are trying. Also EVERYONE should be thermal searched, not just the favored few.

However that being said i would prefer the image strip search then their grubby petri dish paws all over me.

 

[Sunshine]

I remind you all again that the world changed on 9-11-01. and we have little choice but to change a little bit with it.

Tell me what alternative will keep air travelers safer?

You are not giving up any freedoms, You don't like going through security, don't fly.

The world didn't change on 9 11. It just came into focus.

 

[Sunshine]

Yes and no. Im my opinion they need to profile. Why search a baby and let someone who looks shifty pass through? If someone wants to accompany someone to the gate or pick someone up from the gate...so long as they go through the screening process they should be allowed to do that. I have seen far to many women with babies and elderly having to deal alone.

Speaking as someone who fly's quite a bit, I feel that what they do is mostly ineffectual. I have seen the do the DUMBEST SHIT. I know they pick women out to "search" ...and yes i have watched them with heads together ....yeah HER...and low and behold...she is getting patted down...searched....and if available..put through the scanner.

Is that abuse of the system..sure. BUT they do it. Little people with a bit of power to MAKE you comply. You want to fly..sorry hun..your getting grouped.

You want security, how about his.

If Disney can biometricly scan people for entrance to amusement parks...the the TSA should damn well do it too.

I agree with profiling completely . It's not racism, it's just good police procedure. I've said so many times. It's why when they FBI thinks they have a serial killer, they look for a white male in his late 20s. That's their probable suspect, not a 40 y/o black woman , for example.

But there are certain procedures that EVERYONE should go through, just in case, when you're talking about hundreds of people's safety . Sorry that it inconveniences some, but that's the world we live in.

I agree, but a good deal of those procedures are asinine. I feel MOST of the tsa are complete incompetent idiots.

If they want to image people i think that thermal imagery is the way to go, not this image strip search they are trying. Also EVERYONE should be thermal searched, not just the favored few.

However that being said i would prefer the image strip search then their grubby petri dish paws all over me.

I don't think thermal imaging would work if you had an item on you long enough for it to reach body temperature. Or if it was preheated.

 

[Toome]

Yes and no. Im my opinion they need to profile. Why search a baby and let someone who looks shifty pass through? If someone wants to accompany someone to the gate or pick someone up from the gate...so long as they go through the screening process they should be allowed to do that. I have seen far to many women with babies and elderly having to deal alone.

Speaking as someone who fly's quite a bit, I feel that what they do is mostly ineffectual. I have seen the do the DUMBEST SHIT. I know they pick women out to "search" ...and yes i have watched them with heads together ....yeah HER...and low and behold...she is getting patted down...searched....and if available..put through the scanner.

Is that abuse of the system..sure. BUT they do it. Little people with a bit of power to MAKE you comply. You want to fly..sorry hun..your getting grouped.

You want security, how about his.

If Disney can biometricly scan people for entrance to amusement parks...the the TSA should damn well do it too.

I agree with profiling completely . It's not racism, it's just good police procedure. I've said so many times. It's why when they FBI thinks they have a serial killer, they look for a white male in his late 20s. That's their probable suspect, not a 40 y/o black woman , for example.

But there are certain procedures that EVERYONE should go through, just in case, when you're talking about hundreds of people's safety . Sorry that it inconveniences some, but that's the world we live in.

I agree, but a good deal of those procedures are asinine. I feel MOST of the tsa are complete incompetent idiots.

If they want to image people i think that thermal imagery is the way to go, not this image strip search they are trying. Also EVERYONE should be thermal searched, not just the favored few.

However that being said i would prefer the image strip search then their grubby petri dish paws all over me.

The imagery is either backscatter or millimeter technology (depending on which model scanner is used). It's not a strip search. The images posted on the internet by the media had to be enhanced. The TSA officers doesn't see an image with the quality that is shown by the news media.

It's easier to believe that this is a nude-o-scope than it is to deal with the facts. Less thinking involved, more emotional, better sensationalism.

 

[Seawytch]

These imaging scanners have less to do with security and more to do with padding Michael Chertoff's pockets.

 

[ConHog]

Yes and no. Im my opinion they need to profile. Why search a baby and let someone who looks shifty pass through? If someone wants to accompany someone to the gate or pick someone up from the gate...so long as they go through the screening process they should be allowed to do that. I have seen far to many women with babies and elderly having to deal alone.

Speaking as someone who fly's quite a bit, I feel that what they do is mostly ineffectual. I have seen the do the DUMBEST SHIT. I know they pick women out to "search" ...and yes i have watched them with heads together ....yeah HER...and low and behold...she is getting patted down...searched....and if available..put through the scanner.

Is that abuse of the system..sure. BUT they do it. Little people with a bit of power to MAKE you comply. You want to fly..sorry hun..your getting grouped.

You want security, how about his.

If Disney can biometricly scan people for entrance to amusement parks...the the TSA should damn well do it too.

I agree with profiling completely . It's not racism, it's just good police procedure. I've said so many times. It's why when they FBI thinks they have a serial killer, they look for a white male in his late 20s. That's their probable suspect, not a 40 y/o black woman , for example.

But there are certain procedures that EVERYONE should go through, just in case, when you're talking about hundreds of people's safety . Sorry that it inconveniences some, but that's the world we live in.

I agree, but a good deal of those procedures are asinine. I feel MOST of the tsa are complete incompetent idiots.

If they want to image people i think that thermal imagery is the way to go, not this image strip search they are trying. Also EVERYONE should be thermal searched, not just the favored few.

However that being said i would prefer the image strip search then their grubby petri dish paws all over me.

I doubt that you have even come in contact with 1% of TSA employees, so how could you possibly judge? Add to the fact that most of them are minimum wage type employees who probably aren't the ideal candidate for the job. I guess we could go back to late 2001 when I was in full war gear guarding the airport? Not exactly ideal either.

thermal imagery has scientific reasons why it isn't ideal. As for your EVERYONE should be imaged, well that is of course in direct conflict with your statements about profiling; and why would TSA waste both their resources and passenger's time scanning people who haven't reached the level of scruitny which calls for such? I mean they have a machine that uses compressed air to check for explosives at most airports to, but they don't require every passenger to go through them. This is also why they don't allow you past a certain point if you aren't a passenger, at least part of the reason, to cut down on the number of people they have to run through the scans and such. The other part being of course that it makes it much harder for a non passenger to sneak something into a passengers bag or what have you.

I can also guarantee that if the government were collecting biometric data and using it at airports there would be people who would bitch about that as well.

I guess my main point is that it is obvious that security is not something you are trained to handle and you have no idea of either the logistics nor the reasoning behind such. What you DO know is that we haven't had another 9/11 since the new procedures have been put in place.

 

[surely]

[QUOTE

Surely you agree that there are valid reasons for things to change.[/QUOTE]


I do agree, now don't call me surely

 

[surely]

this story is about the PILOT of the AIRPLANE. He has gone through extensive backround checks and security training. Surely there must be a way to get such valuable and highly specialized work group members expedited through the screening process. There is no reason that a TSO should be in a position of authority over a vetted pilot.

 

[Seawytch]

I doubt that you have even come in contact with 1% of TSA employees, so how could you possibly judge? Add to the fact that most of them are minimum wage type employees who probably aren't the ideal candidate for the job. I guess we could go back to late 2001 when I was in full war gear guarding the airport? Not exactly ideal either.

thermal imagery has scientific reasons why it isn't ideal. As for your EVERYONE should be imaged, well that is of course in direct conflict with your statements about profiling; and why would TSA waste both their resources and passenger's time scanning people who haven't reached the level of scruitny which calls for such? I mean they have a machine that uses compressed air to check for explosives at most airports to, but they don't require every passenger to go through them. This is also why they don't allow you past a certain point if you aren't a passenger, at least part of the reason, to cut down on the number of people they have to run through the scans and such. The other part being of course that it makes it much harder for a non passenger to sneak something into a passengers bag or what have you.

I can also guarantee that if the government were collecting biometric data and using it at airports there would be people who would bitch about that as well.

I guess my main point is that it is obvious that security is not something you are trained to handle and you have no idea of either the logistics nor the reasoning behind such. What you DO know is that we haven't had another 9/11 since the new procedures have been put in place.

The House, in regards to these scanners, passed a bill that would require this "naked scanners" only on individuals whose security profile required the additional scan (people on no fly lists or "suspect" lists). It is my understanding that the Senate decided that wasn't good enough and now ANYONE can be selected for these scans. My family and I recently flew to Florida together. Round trip tickets purchased well in advance. I was "selected" for this additional scan out of the four of us. Not because I set of a metal detector or any other actual REASON for doing it. I was randomly selected. There was absolutely no reason for this level of "scrutiny".

Like I said, the only reason for these VERY expensive machines is because Michael Chertoff's company makes them.

 

[ConHog]

I doubt that you have even come in contact with 1% of TSA employees, so how could you possibly judge? Add to the fact that most of them are minimum wage type employees who probably aren't the ideal candidate for the job. I guess we could go back to late 2001 when I was in full war gear guarding the airport? Not exactly ideal either.

thermal imagery has scientific reasons why it isn't ideal. As for your EVERYONE should be imaged, well that is of course in direct conflict with your statements about profiling; and why would TSA waste both their resources and passenger's time scanning people who haven't reached the level of scruitny which calls for such? I mean they have a machine that uses compressed air to check for explosives at most airports to, but they don't require every passenger to go through them. This is also why they don't allow you past a certain point if you aren't a passenger, at least part of the reason, to cut down on the number of people they have to run through the scans and such. The other part being of course that it makes it much harder for a non passenger to sneak something into a passengers bag or what have you.

I can also guarantee that if the government were collecting biometric data and using it at airports there would be people who would bitch about that as well.

I guess my main point is that it is obvious that security is not something you are trained to handle and you have no idea of either the logistics nor the reasoning behind such. What you DO know is that we haven't had another 9/11 since the new procedures have been put in place.

The House, in regards to these scanners, passed a bill that would require this "naked scanners" only on individuals whose security profile required the additional scan (people on no fly lists or "suspect" lists). It is my understanding that the Senate decided that wasn't good enough and now ANYONE can be selected for these scans. My family and I recently flew to Florida together. Round trip tickets purchased well in advance. I was "selected" for this additional scan out of the four of us. Not because I set of a metal detector or any other actual REASON for doing it. I was randomly selected. There was absolutely no reason for this level of "scrutiny".

Like I said, the only reason for these VERY expensive machines is because Michael Chertoff's company makes them.

Boo hoo. next time ride the bus, no scan necessary.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

NO, you do NOT have a right. Southwest can bump you at any time, or otherwise prevent you from boarding. They do it all the time. sure they have to provide you a refund, but you have no recourse if they do so.

Dealing with TSA is just part of the bargain if you wish to deal with airlines. As for screening, you're correct if you're flying from a a major airport, but I have 300 acres, I could cut out a runway buy a Cessna and fly anytime I wished with no need to mess with TSA. I have a right to do that, again provided I jump through all the hoops.

I don't think you would EVER find a court willing to rule that you have a right to board a commercial flight.

That would between me and Southwest, and if they bump me they have to give me something to recompense me for the inconvenience. Simple contract law should cover that, but the feds got involved and made it so much harder for airlines to overbook flights, and bump customers, that your assertion that I do not have the right to fly is even more ridiculous than it would be without them.

Dealing with the TSA is entirely separate from dealing with airlines. One is the government, and one is a business. I fail to see why you think they are inseparable, other than the fact that you believe that the state has infinite power, and an absolute right to interfere with anyone that disagrees with them. That probably explains why you think I should bow down to cops even when they are wrong.

You would be wrong in thinking that courts would ignore legal precedent simply because you think it is inconvenient. Even if they have been known to do so when other progressives thought they should, like the recent ruling to overturn DADT.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

NO, you do NOT have a right. Southwest can bump you at any time, or otherwise prevent you from boarding. They do it all the time. sure they have to provide you a refund, but you have no recourse if they do so.

Dealing with TSA is just part of the bargain if you wish to deal with airlines. As for screening, you're correct if you're flying from a a major airport, but I have 300 acres, I could cut out a runway buy a Cessna and fly anytime I wished with no need to mess with TSA. I have a right to do that, again provided I jump through all the hoops.

I don't think you would EVER find a court willing to rule that you have a right to board a commercial flight.

It want part of the bargain prior to 9-11.

That is true, and in the 1960s I understand that you didn't even have to show ID to board a plane just a ticket.

Surely you agree that there are valid reasons for things to change.

There are valid reasons to do a lot of things. That does not make any of them right.