Please critique my proposed policy to ensure an honest vote

[scruffy]

Election fraud dates back to the elections in ancient Greece. You can't have democratic elections without it. It is always there. The purpose of democratic election is to elect people that are the choice of the people. Only if there is enough election fraud that defeats the purpose of the election is there a problem. Investigations by State Election Commissions, the FBI, the Justice Dept. and dozens of political non partison organization all agree, the election was not stolen, Donald Trump loss the election.

So much deflection.

How about you stick to the issue.

Our electoral process is NOT secure. The fucking Iraqis with their purple thumbs had better election security than we do

 

[scruffy]

I am not a troll

lol

No, you're a dumbass leftard.

because my criticism here is that you are attempting to fix our election process on a generalized hypothetical basis of misinformed voters having a mental and emotional breakdown based on heresay, ignorance’ lies and propaganda by the losing party.

You, and your criticism, are full of shit.

This is a technical issue.

NOT a partisan issue.

Anyone who tries to MAKE it a partisan issue, is NOT OPERATING IN GOOD FAITH

 

[NotfooledbyW]

That will not change until the process itself is changed.

Sez you. An election denier. An election fraud exaggerator. I argue nothing will change until your mental condition is changed to go back to accepting the truth in the AMERICAN WAY that when you lose you lose - shake hands and prepare to do better next time.

 

[NotfooledbyW]

Anyone who tries to MAKE it a partisan issue, is NOT OPERATING IN GOOD FAITH

Which means your partisanship as a Trump supporting election denier is above criticism and above reproach because you say so.

 

[NotfooledbyW]

Our electoral process is NOT secure.

Why? When was it breached in 2020 proven in a court of law?

 

[scruffy]

Sez you. An election denier. An election fraud exaggerator. I argue nothing will change until your mental condition is changed to go back to accepting the truth in the AMERICAN WAY that when you lose you lose - shake hands and prepare to do better next time.

Stalinist pig. ^^^

Hey fucktard, it is ILLEGAL to practice psychiatry without a license

Post your license or STFU.

 

[scruffy]

Which means your partisanship as a Trump supporting election denier is above criticism and above reproach because you say so.

No, it means you leftard jackholes are leaving office BECAUSE you're not operating in good faith.

 

[NotfooledbyW]

you're not operating in good faith.

And you have decided that you are “operating in good faith” as a Trump loyalist.

Reason as in being rational is my middle name.

The Standard of Intent. By this standard, an individual or entity may be considered to have not acted in good faith if they did not act reasonably and knew their was no reasonable basis for their actions.

Do you think it was reasonable of Trump to not accept and continue to declare himself victorious after his courtroom losses from 61 of his 62 original lawsuits against election fraud were shot down in case after case?

The leader of your partisanship scruffy has to be one of the must unreasonable human leaders of a cult following that ever stalked the planet.

 

[NotfooledbyW]

There's no such thing as an election denier, you fucking idiot.

Hey fucktard,

Stalinist pig

STFU

you leftard jackholes

If you don’t agree with scruffy that is what you get. JUST an observance by a concerned voter as to what honest voters are up against.

 

[NotfooledbyW]

That millions now say they don't KNOW whether it was an honest election

You and Trump need to get your stories straight;

“A large percentage of American Citizens, including almost the entire Republican Party, feel that the Election was Rigged and Stolen (because they have seen the determinative evidence, some of which is attached to this letter) “ DJT 221014 letter to select committee.)

Either they ‘don’t know’ as you say Foxfyre or they have seen the determinative evidence attached to the letter,

Definition of determinative: tending to fix, settle, or define something​

Trump’s determinative evidence is a Big Lie.

Facts First: This is false. The 2020 election was not rigged or stolen. Joe Biden was the legitimate winner, Trump the legitimate loser. There is no evidence, in any state, of fraud even close to sufficient to have changed the outcome.

Votes in Pennsylvania​

Trump listed purported evidence of wrongdoing in swing states he lost. One of his claims about Pennsylvania, which Biden won by more than 80,000 votes, was this: “In Pennsylvania, as of February 2021, there were 121,240 more votes than voters.”

Facts First: This is false. Pennsylvania did not have more votes cast in the 2020 election than it had registered voters; the state had about 7 million votes cast and about 9 million registered voters, for a turnout of about 76.5%. And Trump was also wrong if he was repeating the claim that the state counted more votes in the 2020 election than it counted voters who participated in that election. This claim, which was based on a Republican state legislator’s misreading of state data that wasn’t complete at the time, was repeatedly debunked in 2020 and 2021.


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Votes in Maricopa County, Arizona​

Trump made a dramatic claim about Arizona’s most populous county, Maricopa County, where Republicans conducted a sham partisan “audit” of the 2020 election. He wrote: “Maricopa County accepted at least 20,000 mail-in ballots after Election Day 2020, including 18,000 on November 4, 2020, picked up from the U.S. Postal Service—more than the entire Election margin of 10,457 ballots.”

Facts First: This is false. As Reuters has reported, this claim, which has circulated among Trump supporters on social media, is based on a misinterpretation of a document that does not actually show that Maricopa County accepted any ballots after Election Day, let alone thousands of ballots. The document was a receipt for transfer of ballots to a company that scans the ballot envelopes, capturing voters’ signatures, as part of the process of the county verifying the signatures.

Runbeck chief executive Jeff Ellington told Reuters in June: “These 18,000 ballots were received on Election Day prior to the deadline to cast a vote and delivered to Runbeck the next day for processing, following our standard operating procedure.”

Fact check: Trump responds to Jan. 6 committee subpoena with usual election lies | CNN Politics

Former President Donald Trump was subpoenaed Thursday by the House select committee investigating the Jan. 6 attack on the Capitol.

www.cnn.com

Antrim County, Michigan​

Trump returned to a favorite conspiracy theory about a particular county in Michigan, another swing state he lost to Biden. After claiming that one of his allies, Republican attorney general candidate Matthew DePerno, “found voting machines were subverted and accessed remotely,” Trump continued: “In Antrim County, 7,048 votes were changed in favor of Joe Biden.”

Facts First: No votes were changed in Antrim County because of voting machines being subverted, and there is no evidence of any intentional wrongdoing of any kind in the county. Rather, the conservative county made a human error in readying its election technology. The error resulted in some votes for Trump being initially reported as votes for Biden in unofficial preliminary results. The error was rapidly corrected, long before any results were made official, and a Republican-led investigation of the 2020 election by a Michigan state Senate committee concluded that “that ideas and speculation that the Antrim County election workers or outside entities manipulated the vote by hand or electronically are indefensible.”

As for DePerno’s efforts to prove something nefarious happened in Antrim County, the committee also wrote this in its section on the Antrim County situation: “The Committee closely followed Mr. DePerno’s efforts and can confidently conclude they are demonstrably false and based on misleading information and illogical conclusions.” DePerno and others are now under investigation by a special prosecutor over their own alleged efforts to gain access to election technology after the election; DePerno has denied any wrongdoing and claimed that the accusations are politically motivated.

Fulton County, Georgia​

Trump insinuated, as he has before, that he lost Georgia in part because of nefarious doings in Fulton County, home to Atlanta. He wrote that an investigator reported 1,200 ballots being “‘wheeled in through the back door’ days after Election Day, when President Trump’s massive lead ‘shrunk as more votes continue to be tallied in Fulton County.’”

Facts First: This is deceptive. The independent monitor who was hired by the state election board to observe the election in Fulton County did not report any sign that these ballots were fraudulent; in fact, he wrote in his report that “at no time did I ever observe any conduct by Fulton County election officials that involved dishonesty, fraud, or intentional malfeasance,” though he did find sloppiness and other issues. Rather, he simply wrote that, although “it was a judgment call,” he thought the “optics” of bringing ballots through a back door two days after Election Day were poor and that this was “the wrong call for transparency purposes.”

Also, contrary to the impression Trump left here, the monitor did not connect this particular group of ballots to Trump’s illusory lead in Georgia shrinking. The words “shrunk as more votes continue to be tallied in Fulton County” appear to be a quote from CNN – which explicitly pointed out at the time that Trump’s shrinking lead wasn’t the result of anything nefarious – and not the monitor himself.

 

[Lisa558]

If you dig down into that evidence of voter fraud in the link, what you have is a calculation of voter fraud based on alleged cases of voter fraud. Here is description of the calculation. I compare voting precincts in a county with alleged fraud to adjacent precincts in neighboring counties with no allegations of fraud. I compute the differences in President Trump’s vote shares on absentee ballots in those adjacent precincts, controlling for the differences in his vote shares on ballots cast in person. I also control for registered voters’ demographics and compare data for the 2016 and 2020 presidential elections, If you take a small allegation and you extend it you get a big allegation and still no evidence.

Do you know what most allegation of election fraud are? They are poll monitors and poll workers reporting violation of election laws and regulations such as poll workers allowing voters to vote without proper ids, people entering polls without going through the voter lines, people that don't speak English voting and appearing to be foreigners, political signs being carried to close to the polls, poll workers making improper comments to voters, what appear to be illegal aliens hanging around a polling place, poll workers refusing to discuss ids accepted with a monitor, poll workers who influenced voting, voters bringing alcohol or drugs into a polling places, threats against poll workers, voters campaigning for candidates within the polling place. These are reported as Alleged Violations of Election law and regulation violations. These figures are often called Election Fraud but very few are actually illegal voting. Very few of these cases appear in court and very few of them are illegal voting.

There are many aspects to fraud. The Democrats conspiring with the media to suppress news stories, which if covered would doom their candidate, is another. Similarly, suppressing coverage of the positive news of the opposing candidate is another.

 

[candycorn]

So much deflection.

How about you stick to the issue.

Our electoral process is NOT secure. The fucking Iraqis with their purple thumbs had better election security than we do

Strange how you never made an issue of this alleged insecurity until your blob lost. Amazing how that works.

 

[NotfooledbyW]

There are many aspects to fraud. The Democrats conspiring with the media to suppress news stories, which if covered would doom their candidate, is another.

In response to the select Committee Trump just listed all the determinative evidence of election fraud that he thinks cost him the election but your conspiracy theory was not on the list. Why do you think it’s not there. Is he still waiting to unleash the Kracken?

 

[scruffy]

And you have decided that you are “operating in good faith” as a Trump loyalist.

Reason as in being rational is my middle name.

The Standard of Intent. By this standard, an individual or entity may be considered to have not acted in good faith if they did not act reasonably and knew their was no reasonable basis for their actions.

Do you think it was reasonable of Trump to not accept and continue to declare himself victorious after his courtroom losses from 61 of his 62 original lawsuits against election fraud were shot down in case after case?

The leader of your partisanship scruffy has to be one of the must unreasonable human leaders of a cult following that ever stalked the planet.

YOU are a complete fucking asshole.

You have determined for yourself that I'm a Trump loyalist.

You're dumb as a stump.

Why don't you STFU with your idiotic bullshit, and do the rest of us a favor and exit the thread.

 

[NotfooledbyW]

You have determined for yourself that I'm a Trump loyalist.

No I said you are acting in good faith as a Trump loyalist does. Doesn’t mean you are one, just means you’re just exactly like one.

Anyone who still supports Trump after his Jan6 insurrection is a Trump loyalist in my book.

 

[Foxfyre]

Um folks could we keep the food fight to a minimum here? It isn't helpful and that also tends to derail the thread.

I am pretty much ignoring those who are just trolling and/or trying to stir up a food fight and/or change the subject.

Even before the 2020 election, even before COVID created the highly questionable processes of voting that so many object to, the electorate did not have much faith in the system or process:

". . .A Gallup poll released Thursday found that 59% of Americans don't have confidence in the honesty of elections, while 40% say they do. The latest data for the U.S. comes from polling conducted from April to May 2019, when U.S. intelligence agencies confirmed allegations of foreign interference in the 2016 presidential election and similar activity in the 2018 midterms. . ."

https://www.usnews.com/news/elections/articles/2020-02-13/majority-of-americans-dont-trust-elections-poll

At that time a LOT of people who distrusted the system were on the left and were blaming Trump for not shoring up election systems and security:
"A lot of Americans don't trust the electoral system despite massive efforts by government officials to tighten security and boost voter confidence. This is according to a new poll by NPR, PBS NewsHour and Marist. The poll finds deep partisan divides over what threatens U.S. elections, whether it's foreign interference, disinformation, suppression or fraud, and many blame President Trump for not doing enough. . .


By the end of 2020 the left was mostly happy with the altered systems and processes hastily created because of COVID. Most of those on the right were appalled and remain so and have been joined by some on the left. And some strong leftists like Tulsi Gabbard joined with the right in protesting some of the more questionable processes like ballot harvesting:

Project Veritas offers further evidence of the need to ban ballot harvesting. It's not a partisan issue. It's been abused to help both R & D candidates, including in North Carolina & California. Please help by telling your congressional rep to pass our bipartisan bill HR8285. https://t.co/AJequVVrzc
— Tulsi Gabbard 🌺 (@TulsiGabbard) September 29, 2020

AOC Calls Out Tulsi Gabbard For Amplifying Voter Fraud Story

The subject of the Project Veritas video alleging Representative Ilhan Omar of voter fraud said he was "set up" by the conservative media organization.

www.newsweek.com

I still don't understand why ANY honorable person would not support election policy in which ALL Americans of whatever political party or whatever ideology or whatever the outcome would have confidence that the vote was honest, fair, accurate.

 

[scruffy]

No I said you are acting in good faith as a Trump loyalist does. Doesn’t mean you are one, just means you’re just exactly like one.

Anyone who still supports Trump after his Jan6 insurrection is a Trump loyalist in my book.

You have a delusion problem.

Speaking out against Stalinism does not equate with supporting Trump.

I am on record MANY times discussing Mr Trump's many problems

However I would support the fucking dogcatcher if they went after him like they're going after Trump.

I'm very sorry but the Democrats have lost their way. They've transgressed every boundary there is and now they're screwing the working class.

And that STILL doesn't equate with any love for Donald Trump.

You need to get off that horse. It's working against you.

 

[Foxfyre]

You have a delusion problem.

Speaking out against Stalinism does not equate with supporting Trump.

I am on record MANY times discussing Mr Trump's many problems

However I would support the fucking dogcatcher if they went after him like they're going after Trump.

I'm very sorry but the Democrats have lost their way. They've transgressed every boundary there is and now they're screwing the working class.

And that STILL doesn't equate with any love for Donald Trump.

You need to get off that horse. It's working against you.

Agreed for the most part. Trump has little or nothing to do with it per my Post #449.

The ONLY reason Trump factors into it now is he won the 2016 election that the media and Democrats did their damndest to blame on "Russian interference" that helped Trump. The whole point of the Mueller investigation, Schiff's highly questionable clandestine depositions and hearings, and massive media speculation--Rachel Maddow had high ratings on MSNBC 'proving' those theories. All came up with bupkiss and Maddow wound up with a lot of egg on her face. Stacy Abrams still hasn't conceded the election in Georgia that denied her the governorship.

The Democrats can't claim any moral high ground here as many questioned the 2016 election, the trustworthiness of the machines, the legitimacy of the Trump presidency. Pelosi and many others called him an illegitimate President. Now many blame him for distrust of the 2020 election.

"NPR’s Terry Gross asked Clinton directly during the interview whether she would “completely rule out questioning the legitimacy of this election if we learn that the Russian interference in the election is even deeper than we know now?”

“No. I would not,” Clinton said.

Gross asked: “You’re not going to rule it out?”

“No,” Clinton said. “I wouldn’t rule it out.”
Clinton opens door to questioning legitimacy of 2016 election | CNN Politics

So why don't we all agree on putting a system and process in place in which EVERYBODY can have confidence that the vote is honest and accurate and whoever wins is the legitimate winner?

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

You want Biden forever?

Sink Warrior, Biden has NOTHING to do with the midterm elections in Pennsylvania, dumbass!

 

[scruffy]

Agreed for the most part. Trump has little or nothing to do with it per my Post #449.

The ONLY reason Trump factors into it now is he won the 2016 election that the media and Democrats did their damndest to blame on "Russian interference" that helped Trump. The whole point of the Mueller investigation, Schiff's highly questionable clandestine depositions and hearings, and massive media speculation--Rachel Maddow had high ratings on MSNBC 'proving' those theories. All came up with bupkiss and Maddow wound up with a lot of egg on her face. Stacy Abrams still hasn't conceded the election in Georgia that denied her the governorship.

The Democrats can't claim any moral high ground here as many questioned the 2016 election, the trustworthiness of the machines, the legitimacy of the Trump presidency. Pelosi and many others called him an illegitimate President. Now many blame him for distrust of the 2020 election.

"NPR’s Terry Gross asked Clinton directly during the interview whether she would “completely rule out questioning the legitimacy of this election if we learn that the Russian interference in the election is even deeper than we know now?”

“No. I would not,” Clinton said.

Gross asked: “You’re not going to rule it out?”

“No,” Clinton said. “I wouldn’t rule it out.”
Clinton opens door to questioning legitimacy of 2016 election | CNN Politics

So why don't we all agree on putting a system and process in place in which EVERYBODY can have confidence that the vote is honest and accurate and whoever wins is the legitimate winner?

Yes. From a security standpoint, the "who" of it is insignificant.

Reality is, if the Dems can cheat, the Reps can do it too. (And I'm guessing it won't be two heartbeats before they do).

The basic gut element in the lack of confidence (at least relative to 2020) is "there's no way Biden got 81 million votes". And unfortunately, no one can prove that he did.

If you look at the Dominion system architecture I posted (somewhere, in another thread), it becomes clear where the likely point of exploitation was. Up front. The ballots were legit, the registrations weren't. I'll betcha ten bucks a REAL handwriting expert would find many many serious discrepancies.