Police State: CA Approves $500 Fines For 'Wasting Water'...

[paulitician]

Did anyone actually think that CA would come up with a solution other than taxing or fining?

Not me.

 

[dilloduck]

It appears that they can legally collect rainwater tho---some states don't even allow that.

Time for a rain barrel sale .

 

[martybegan]

No, it's right in the article.

Inside waste--no problem
outside waste--problem

I guess feel like they are sending a message if nothing else.

I think it has more to do with evaporation. Outdoor use pretty much disappears up into the sky, indoor use goes back into the water table....not sure though. Could also be that showers and washing dishes are actually necessary to health where those outdoor activities mentioned aren't.

That said, I never really get the point of water restrictions when it comes to watering plants. If you don't water them, your yard and/or house will just burn up sooner with all that dry vegetation feeding the coming wildfires.

Its just simpler to catch, and to watch for, and it is some of the more wasteful activities. In a drought your objective is to stretch your water capacity until the drought ends.

 

[Skull Pilot]

So tell me if I lived in a place that fines people for water use would I be fined if I went to a private supplier like Poland Springs and bought a tanker truck full of water and then used that water to keep my lawn an unnatural shade of green?

Should I be fined for that at all?

I bought and paid for that water didn't I?

So who the fuck are you to tell me what I can and can't do with it?

the NYC laws explicitly state public water. If you brought in your own tanker, you can do what you will.

The provider of the water, the utility, has government backing to enforce usage laws when a drought is declared. Its to protect not only people to conserve water, but also the system as low levels can lead to catastrophic damage. it is done as an alternative to shutting off the water entirely.

What's the difference if I buy the water from Poland Springs or the public utility?

I am paying for the water so once I have it I should be able to do anything I want with it.

It's not like water from a public utility is free.

 

[martybegan]

So how does Big Brother monitor and enforce these edicts?

Basically driving down the street, or by being ratted out by neighbors. The ratting out by neighbors is usually the main mechanism.

My guess is, they would have to be doing much more than driving around. They must be monitoring it in different ways. Just looks like more borrowed Nazi tactics.

Nah, a few people get a $300 fine for watering their begonias on the wrong day, and word spreads enough that its not worth the risk. Same thing for washing your 2003 Saturn.

 

[Skull Pilot]

So tell me if I lived in a place that fines people for water use would I be fined if I went to a private supplier like Poland Springs and bought a tanker truck full of water and then used that water to keep my lawn an unnatural shade of green?

Should I be fined for that at all?

I bought and paid for that water didn't I?

So who the fuck are you to tell me what I can and can't do with it?

Who said you can't do that?

Wars have been fought over water rights. Their is nothing the matter with water conservation nor is it a sign of a police state. You guys might think differently if there were no conservation efforts and water is rationed.

The point I was making sailed right over your head.

What's the difference if I buy my water from a private business or a public utility?

Either way I am paying for the water I use. Once I pay for it it is mine to do with as I see fit.

 

[paulitician]

Basically driving down the street, or by being ratted out by neighbors. The ratting out by neighbors is usually the main mechanism.

My guess is, they would have to be doing much more than driving around. They must be monitoring it in different ways. Just looks like more borrowed Nazi tactics.

Nah, a few people get a $300 fine for watering their begonias on the wrong day, and word spreads enough that its not worth the risk. Same thing for washing your 2003 Saturn.

Nazi tactics. Most are turned in by neighbors. That's the kind of disturbing abhorrent behavior Big Brother encourages. It's very sad.

 

[Wry Catcher]

I would rather State governments worry about things like this, which are within their purview, than making bakers bake cakes for gay weddings or mandate public coverage of abortion funds.

I hear ya. But i am interested in how Big Brother plans to enforce this. Round-the-Clock surveillance? And what if the Fines aren't paid? Will there be arrests & imprisonment?

If you don't pay a fine you will be directed to appear in court. After you have done your big brother rant the court will order you to pay. When you don't, you will be sentenced to jail. It's really that simple, why it is so hard for Libertarians to understand explains all we need to know about Libertarians.

 

[paulitician]

I would rather State governments worry about things like this, which are within their purview, than making bakers bake cakes for gay weddings or mandate public coverage of abortion funds.

I hear ya. But i am interested in how Big Brother plans to enforce this. Round-the-Clock surveillance? And what if the Fines aren't paid? Will there be arrests & imprisonment?

If you don't pay a fine you will be directed to appear in court. After you have done your big brother rant the court will order you to pay. When you don't, you will be sentenced to jail. It's really that simple, why it is so hard for Libertarians to understand explains all we need to know about Libertarians.

Sounds fantastic. Thank you so much Big Brother. Glad to see you got our backs. I can't wait till you start arresting us for 'Excessive Toilet-Flushing.' Because i know it's for our own good... And for the children of course. I love you Big Brother.

 

[martybegan]

So tell me if I lived in a place that fines people for water use would I be fined if I went to a private supplier like Poland Springs and bought a tanker truck full of water and then used that water to keep my lawn an unnatural shade of green?

Should I be fined for that at all?

I bought and paid for that water didn't I?

So who the fuck are you to tell me what I can and can't do with it?

Who said you can't do that?

Wars have been fought over water rights. Their is nothing the matter with water conservation nor is it a sign of a police state. You guys might think differently if there were no conservation efforts and water is rationed.

The point I was making sailed right over your head.

What's the difference if I buy my water from a private business or a public utility?

Either way I am paying for the water I use. Once I pay for it it is mine to do with as I see fit.

Then the utilities only option is to shut off your water after you reach a certain limit daily during a drought condition, a situation that leads to a host of issues.

Or you issue an edict during a drought that says if you don't follow certain water use rules, you may be fined.

Option 2 is actually the easier, less intrusive one.

 

[Wry Catcher]

So tell me if I lived in a place that fines people for water use would I be fined if I went to a private supplier like Poland Springs and bought a tanker truck full of water and then used that water to keep my lawn an unnatural shade of green?

Should I be fined for that at all?

I bought and paid for that water didn't I?

So who the fuck are you to tell me what I can and can't do with it?

Who said you can't do that?

Wars have been fought over water rights. Their is nothing the matter with water conservation nor is it a sign of a police state. You guys might think differently if there were no conservation efforts and water is rationed.

The point I was making sailed right over your head.

What's the difference if I buy my water from a private business or a public utility?

Either way I am paying for the water I use. Once I pay for it it is mine to do with as I see fit.

If you purchased water from "water supplier" you could use it for whatever legal purpose you wanted, but why post a non sequitur/red herring?

 

[Mad Scientist]

The State Water Resources Control Board acted Tuesday amid warnings that conditions could get worse if it doesn't rain this winter.

Where does their authority to Tax and levy Fines come from? Because someone said so?

Any Californians here read the State Constitution?

Sounds like a pretty easy "ticket" to beat.

 

[Ravi]

I would rather State governments worry about things like this, which are within their purview, than making bakers bake cakes for gay weddings or mandate public coverage of abortion funds.

I hear ya. But i am interested in how Big Brother plans to enforce this. Round-the-Clock surveillance? And what if the Fines aren't paid? Will there be arrests & imprisonment?

If you don't pay a fine you will be directed to appear in court. After you have done your big brother rant the court will order you to pay. When you don't, you will be sentenced to jail. It's really that simple, why it is so hard for Libertarians to understand explains all we need to know about Libertarians.

I don't think he'd go to jail but they might put a lien on his property.

As far as I can tell these water restrictions work because the vast majority will follow them and shame those (with their emerald green lawns and bleached sidewalks) that don't.

 

[Mustang]

I would rather State governments worry about things like this, which are within their purview, than making bakers bake cakes for gay weddings or mandate public coverage of abortion funds.

I hear ya. But i am interested in how Big Brother plans to enforce this. Round-the-Clock surveillance? And what if the Fines aren't paid? Will there be arrests & imprisonment?

Yes, there will be arrests, imprisonment, torture (but probably not water boarding), and ultimately, summary executions followed by midnight burials in mass graves on State land which will then be fenced off from public access. Now, post this on a blog. That way another conservative can pick it up and report it as news. Then, some conservative radio host and sites like NewsMax or WND can report it as "sources report..."

Now, back to reality.

Some things are are luxuries that we can do without. Water is not one of those things. Every living thing needs it to survive.

You might love having a nice lawn and a clean car and even more pointedly, clean clothes, but you wouldn't give a shit about any of those things if you start to really go thirsty. As for me, I never truly appreciated what it's like to go without water for a long period of time until the very early nineties. Oh sure, I've done yard work and gotten thirsty while sweating, but that was nothing compared to this particular occasion when a friend of mine and I got off a trail on a mountain hike and got a little lost even as we ran out of water, despite the fact that we thought we had brought enough to get us to places where we could refill. But once we were off the trail and lost, that didn't happen. As we continued to get more and more dehydrated in the summer heat, I was actually surprise how uncomfortable that feeling was. I could feel every cell of my body crying out for water.

Why do I tell this story. Millions and millions of people have settled in a large geographical area that has very little rainfall and few natural sources (like lakes) for water. But due to underground aquifers, the Colorado river, piping and having water pumped in from outside the area, people have been able to live as if the reality of the natural world was not important. That's an illusion. While this human engineering has made life liveable, a serious drought could upend that reality.

Now, if and when a drought hits, and it continues to get worse, thereby representing a threat to the status quo, do you think you could count on individuals acting on their own to do what's necessary to avert a disaster without some kind of central authority or some kind of direction (including mandatory water restrictions)? What entity do you think is going to make sure that measures are taken to avert disaster?

 

[martybegan]

I hear ya. But i am interested in how Big Brother plans to enforce this. Round-the-Clock surveillance? And what if the Fines aren't paid? Will there be arrests & imprisonment?

If you don't pay a fine you will be directed to appear in court. After you have done your big brother rant the court will order you to pay. When you don't, you will be sentenced to jail. It's really that simple, why it is so hard for Libertarians to understand explains all we need to know about Libertarians.

I don't think he'd go to jail but they might put a lien on his property.

As far as I can tell these water restrictions work because the vast majority will follow them and shame those (with their emerald green lawns and bleached sidewalks) that don't.

Exactly. 75% of the savings in usage come from voluntary compliance, another 20% from people snitching on their neighbors who cheat, and probably 5% from cops driving around seeing people being naughty.

 

[Nutz]

I would rather State governments worry about things like this, which are within their purview, than making bakers bake cakes for gay weddings or mandate public coverage of abortion funds.

I hear ya. But i am interested in how Big Brother plans to enforce this. Round-the-Clock surveillance? And what if the Fines aren't paid? Will there be arrests & imprisonment?

If you don't pay a fine you will be directed to appear in court. After you have done your big brother rant the court will order you to pay. When you don't, you will be sentenced to jail. It's really that simple, why it is so hard for Libertarians to understand explains all we need to know about Libertarians.

Are these fines levied by the local government or the water authority?

 

[Wry Catcher]

I hear ya. But i am interested in how Big Brother plans to enforce this. Round-the-Clock surveillance? And what if the Fines aren't paid? Will there be arrests & imprisonment?

If you don't pay a fine you will be directed to appear in court. After you have done your big brother rant the court will order you to pay. When you don't, you will be sentenced to jail. It's really that simple, why it is so hard for Libertarians to understand explains all we need to know about Libertarians.

Are these fines levied by the local government or the water authority?

Designated city/county employees and special district employees.

 

[bripat9643]

A fine illustration of libertarians acting as sullen teenagers, endlessly screaming "YOU'RE NOT THE BOSS OF ME!".

Record drought? Bah. Public good? No such thing. Every single thing is entirely about the rights of the poor libertarians to do whatever they damn well please, no matter who it harms.

Like other grownups, I understand that it's not all about me, and that I don't always get to do what I want, and it doesn't make me a victim of statist tyranny when I don't get to do what I want. Most libertarians never reached that level of maturity.

If you privatize the supply of fresh water and charge according to the laws of supply and demand, any shortage would disappear immediately.

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

Par for the course in the land of fruits and nuts. Create a water shortage, then fine people for wasting water.

Anybody still living there has to be insane.

 

[LordBrownTrout]

I would rather State governments worry about things like this, which are within their purview, than making bakers bake cakes for gay weddings or mandate public coverage of abortion funds.

I hear ya. But i am interested in how Big Brother plans to enforce this. Round-the-Clock surveillance? And what if the Fines aren't paid? Will there be arrests & imprisonment?

If you don't pay a fine you will be directed to appear in court. After you have done your big brother rant the court will order you to pay. When you don't, you will be sentenced to jail. It's really that simple, why it is so hard for Libertarians to understand explains all we need to know about Libertarians.

Why is it so difficult for good libs as yourself to come up with a solution other than taxing or fining?