POLL: A Question for Lefties re: Socialism

[OODA_Loop]

Is CAR capitalist or not?

As deepest darkest Africa goes.........not really.

Sigh, are we really going to go this pathetically slow?

Do I need to ask the blatantly obvious questions?

You claim capitalism is a losing proposition and post a small insignificant African country as your example.

The question you need to ask is your premise correct.

 

[frigidweirdo]

Is CAR capitalist or not?

As deepest darkest Africa goes.........not really.

Sigh, are we really going to go this pathetically slow?

Do I need to ask the blatantly obvious questions?

You claim capitalism is a losing proposition and post a small insignificant African country as your example.

The question you need to ask is your premise correct.

It doesn't matter the size of the fucking country. Is that you lame ass point? That the country is somehow small so not worthy?

Are we debating politics or penis size here?

 

[OODA_Loop]

Is CAR capitalist or not?

As deepest darkest Africa goes.........not really.

Sigh, are we really going to go this pathetically slow?

Do I need to ask the blatantly obvious questions?

You claim capitalism is a losing proposition and post a small insignificant African country as your example.

The question you need to ask is your premise correct.

It doesn't matter the size of the fucking country. Is that you lame ass point? That the country is somehow small so not worthy?

Are we debating politics or penis size here?

If that is your only example then you prove capitalism is effective elsewhere around the world
in significant economies.

 

[frigidweirdo]

Is CAR capitalist or not?

As deepest darkest Africa goes.........not really.

Sigh, are we really going to go this pathetically slow?

Do I need to ask the blatantly obvious questions?

You claim capitalism is a losing proposition and post a small insignificant African country as your example.

The question you need to ask is your premise correct.

It doesn't matter the size of the fucking country. Is that you lame ass point? That the country is somehow small so not worthy?

Are we debating politics or penis size here?

If that is your only example then you prove capitalism is effective elsewhere around the world
in significant economies.

You're fucked if you do, and fucked if you don't.

You write one example, because you were told to give an example, and you get criticized. You give 20 examples and you'll get criticized for writing too much.

Are you going to fucking get around to telling what your problem is with CAR or not? Or are you just going to carry on with this idiotic deflection?

Please tell me, because if it's the latter, I'll be saying bye to you, because so far, this is a fucking waste of time that you've managed to string out over TWO FUCKING DAYS.

 

[rightwinger]

Capitalism fails without regulation

Government regulation of the market instead of natural free market forces create failure and abuse.

No, actually it allows a free market without predatory capitalism
Survival of a the fittest means a lot of worthy companies get killed

 

[frigidweirdo]

Capitalism fails without regulation

Government regulation of the market instead of natural free market forces create failure and abuse.

1929 wasn't a failure? WTF?

 

[rightwinger]

How is China doing?

How Was China Doing Before It Dropped Pure Communism ??
China Is Still An Authoritarian Economy

This Question Was Asked About Japan When It Was Roaring
And Then What Happened ??
Japan's Been In Near Economic Stagnation For Almost 30yrs Now
The Same Can Happen To China -- US Too

For Now, America And It's Dollar
Still Drives The Economy Of The World

Exactly

They are not pure communist
We are not pure capitalist

The answer lies somewhere in between

 

[rightwinger]

A question for anyone who thinks of themselves as being anything to the Left of Dead Center:

I'm constantly told that the Left wants America to be just like Venezuela, that's there is essentially no difference between Venezuela and social democratic countries like Canada, Australia, Germany & Finland.

So, do you want America to be just like Venezuela, and if so, WHY, dammit!
.

Honestly, Mac, I haven't been around USMB long but in that time I've come to respect if not often agree with the centrist tone of your posts seemingly anchored squarely to a confluence of ideological intersubjectivity. You do quite well as a crossroads or a "five forks" so to speak, of meeting places. In the end we all choose one of those forks in the road, even if in our refusal to do so, a road crew must come and divert the individual lanes thereof to one's right or left in order to represent choice of path.

That being said, in this thread a whiff of intellectual dishonesty rising about from somewhere, faintly, between the lines. Just a pellucid gray-blue tendril. From what you wrote in some other post, in some other thread, I gather you're a numbers guy? Thus your primacy of thought is given to economics? Also seems to be a bit of the humanist mixed in there amid all the digital accounting and forecasting? Very admirable a tendency to espouse among the cold calculus of counting.

To understand the truth in the real intersubjective fear beneath the accusations of alarmism you proselytize so passionately, you must get beyond the surface strata of "Chicken-Little-ism" you read as unnecessary conflation in other posters anti-socialism rants. While the underlying numbers of functioning economies and their polynomial prognosticators very obviously make vital spheres of any civilization go around in complex balance, the amalgamation of philosophies on which the same civilization was founded become ideologies which act as object vehicles to advance or devolve them, and not "can be" but rather are more dangerous when misinterpreted or misused than thermonuclear weapons.

Epistemology is the theory of knowledge. However, is all understanding of knowledge, or knowledge gained for that matter, representative of the truth? Can the truth be interpreted in more than one way? How many truths can exist in aggregate or aggregations of the definitions of truth--subjectively-- before truth becomes something else when desired to be arrived at objectively? Everyone it seems these days wants to talk about radical political philosophies--you know, the sexiest ones like socialism, communism, anarchism and the "N" one. What most of us fail to analyze, however, are the uniting philosophies our founders derived from antiquity and brought together in the formation of our American civilization.

Our founding fathers epistemic interpretive conclusion was among, if not the first--in near Modernist history at least, to bring the individual citizen's unique persona and personality into the question of equalization with the feudal lord and even the monarch from antiquity, to the forefront of the political philosophy of being or existing within a governed social structure, rather than assigning to him, as was done from ancient times, a group identifier or identity. In effect, for the first time, the everyman's freedom and right(s) was to be made as important as was for millennia that of the highborn alone.

In truth, while the political theories of our founders did not vanquish the historical aristocracy from the social strata so much as renaming it, it did greatly limit their social and political authority over the commoner. Further, the common man was armed with an unprecedented tool in the form of well paid hard labor for great reward, and awarded the great trust of self-editing his own behaviors to be in accordance with the law through personal responsibility, rather the since time out of mind doctrine of having the law imposed on him to coerce socially acceptable behavior at sword point.

In the middle of this great American experiment the lowest caste could meet the highest caste in the middle to form a new, historically unheard of caste: the middle class. Barring excessive familial social advantage, we all start from humble beginnings and yet the true magnificence of our system is in our ability to move up, branch out, become better--all dependent upon the willingness and measure of our personal effort. We the people were never intended to be a species of citizen who received government, but rather a body of citizenry who forged our own through suffrage, and if need be, rebellion. Our government was never meant to be something that happened to us, but for us--willingly--and by our own contractual handshake of permission.

The episteme or the core interpretation of the knowledge of governing observed by Moore, Marx, Engels and others to become the philosophies and derived ideological products of socialism is antithesis to the above described political, social, economic and epistemological interpretations of our founders. While you assert with reasonable if not somewhat exasperated dialectic that today's American democratic socialism proffered by now mainstreamed elements of the Democratic party is nothing similar to Marxist-Leninist theory or historical application, I would agree to disagree agreeably--in the spirit of an annoyingly over complicated Hegelian dialectic sense.

Neither universal healthcare, nor universal education, nor nationalized living wages are socialist institutions--I will grant you that much. However, beneath the surface strata of those proposed levels of infrastructural economic interventionism, is a decades running cultural ideological revolution starkly the opposite in every way to the nature of our founders ideology. That below the surface radical political and cultural philosophy aligns with historical Marxist-Leninist authoritarian socialism and in solid truth is as deadly for our American way of life as a nuclear demolition charge on a timer ticking down to zero.

The middle class is where the poor and wealthy meet. Original American political theory holds and-- surprisingly well-- provides the poor man with, the tools to rise up if not to the very top then at least past the middle. Marx and Engels viewed both the upper class--and its product the middle class--as eternal enemies of the poor working class who could never be upwardly mobile in a capitalist society and were in fact, fixed in place with economic oppression not unlike some kind of social prison.

What true socialism--the full Monty--calls for is cultural, social and political revolution. What it promises the oppressed working class is ownership of their destinies by means of ownership of government infrastructure from the top down. What true socialism implemented results in is not the elimination of the wealthy, but rather the nationalization and centralization of all wealth into the hands of the few who call themselves the government of the People. Fewer, more wealthy rich men.

So yes, in closing, so-called American democratic socialism is neither an advertisement for Moor's Utopia, nor Marx's manifesto, nor even homicidally angry young Lenin's Bolshevism. However, Mac, the de facto political ideology of today's radical Left is all of the preceding and more in the form of political correctness, moral relativism, factual relativism, patriotic relativism, censorship of opposition, violent youth movements, coerced and forced speech, denial of biological fact, fear of hate speech and so on. Democratic socialism is the surface of a much deeper than it first appears glacial lake of very dark ideological chasms. Perhaps . . . America could float well enough on its surface, and yet if that boat were to ever capsize or be intentionally sunk, all of our greatest nightmares would become reality.

To neither heed history's warnings nor listen for a moment to what your Chicken Little's have to say is, in my humble opinion, the opposite of the veritable mature cooler head. Sometimes the best intended desire to unite the saner voices of opposition can rob one of sight faster even than crying wolf.

Remember . . . government is not something our founders or first American ancestors intended to happen to them or to later generations. "By the people . . . ." Yes? Neither reliance on government nor forced acceptance of government was ever intended to be in the cards. "For the people." American men and women rise or fall by their own effort. Poverty is not a disease requiring a government cure. The "antidote" to being poor is already inborn within all of us. The wealthy will always exist. Unless of course, we follow the socialist way of stripping them all of their fortunes, demote them to work in the fields, imprison them or shoot them at dawn.

tl;dr

 

[OODA_Loop]

As deepest darkest Africa goes.........not really.

Sigh, are we really going to go this pathetically slow?

Do I need to ask the blatantly obvious questions?

You claim capitalism is a losing proposition and post a small insignificant African country as your example.

The question you need to ask is your premise correct.

It doesn't matter the size of the fucking country. Is that you lame ass point? That the country is somehow small so not worthy?

Are we debating politics or penis size here?

If that is your only example then you prove capitalism is effective elsewhere around the world
in significant economies.

You're fucked if you do, and fucked if you don't.

You write one example, because you were told to give an example, and you get criticized. You give 20 examples and you'll get criticized for writing too much.

Are you going to fucking get around to telling what your problem is with CAR or not? Or are you just going to carry on with this idiotic deflection?

Please tell me, because if it's the latter, I'll be saying bye to you, because so far, this is a fucking waste of time that you've managed to string out over TWO FUCKING DAYS.

Ok if you get an example of merit let us know. Until then Your provided example is weak.

 

[frigidweirdo]

Sigh, are we really going to go this pathetically slow?

Do I need to ask the blatantly obvious questions?

You claim capitalism is a losing proposition and post a small insignificant African country as your example.

The question you need to ask is your premise correct.

It doesn't matter the size of the fucking country. Is that you lame ass point? That the country is somehow small so not worthy?

Are we debating politics or penis size here?

If that is your only example then you prove capitalism is effective elsewhere around the world
in significant economies.

You're fucked if you do, and fucked if you don't.

You write one example, because you were told to give an example, and you get criticized. You give 20 examples and you'll get criticized for writing too much.

Are you going to fucking get around to telling what your problem is with CAR or not? Or are you just going to carry on with this idiotic deflection?

Please tell me, because if it's the latter, I'll be saying bye to you, because so far, this is a fucking waste of time that you've managed to string out over TWO FUCKING DAYS.

Ok if you get an example of merit let us know. Until then Your provided example is weak.

Bye.

 

[OODA_Loop]

Capitalism fails without regulation

Government regulation of the market instead of natural free market forces create failure and abuse.

1929 wasn't a failure? WTF?

Not a failure of who owned production.

 

[OODA_Loop]

You claim capitalism is a losing proposition and post a small insignificant African country as your example.

The question you need to ask is your premise correct.

It doesn't matter the size of the fucking country. Is that you lame ass point? That the country is somehow small so not worthy?

Are we debating politics or penis size here?

If that is your only example then you prove capitalism is effective elsewhere around the world
in significant economies.

You're fucked if you do, and fucked if you don't.

You write one example, because you were told to give an example, and you get criticized. You give 20 examples and you'll get criticized for writing too much.

Are you going to fucking get around to telling what your problem is with CAR or not? Or are you just going to carry on with this idiotic deflection?

Please tell me, because if it's the latter, I'll be saying bye to you, because so far, this is a fucking waste of time that you've managed to string out over TWO FUCKING DAYS.

Ok if you get an example of merit let us know. Until then Your provided example is weak.

Bye.

I still be here and if you put up another weak example of your premise look for me.

 

[frigidweirdo]

It doesn't matter the size of the fucking country. Is that you lame ass point? That the country is somehow small so not worthy?

Are we debating politics or penis size here?

If that is your only example then you prove capitalism is effective elsewhere around the world
in significant economies.

You're fucked if you do, and fucked if you don't.

You write one example, because you were told to give an example, and you get criticized. You give 20 examples and you'll get criticized for writing too much.

Are you going to fucking get around to telling what your problem is with CAR or not? Or are you just going to carry on with this idiotic deflection?

Please tell me, because if it's the latter, I'll be saying bye to you, because so far, this is a fucking waste of time that you've managed to string out over TWO FUCKING DAYS.

Ok if you get an example of merit let us know. Until then Your provided example is weak.

Bye.

I still be here and if you put up another weak example of your premise look for me.

Ignore list then.

 

[OODA_Loop]

If that is your only example then you prove capitalism is effective elsewhere around the world
in significant economies.

You're fucked if you do, and fucked if you don't.

You write one example, because you were told to give an example, and you get criticized. You give 20 examples and you'll get criticized for writing too much.

Are you going to fucking get around to telling what your problem is with CAR or not? Or are you just going to carry on with this idiotic deflection?

Please tell me, because if it's the latter, I'll be saying bye to you, because so far, this is a fucking waste of time that you've managed to string out over TWO FUCKING DAYS.

Ok if you get an example of merit let us know. Until then Your provided example is weak.

Bye.

I still be here and if you put up another weak example of your premise look for me.

Ignore list then.

The ultimate victory like a fat kid to cake.

Can refute your posts without your rebuttal

Mmmmm

 

[DustyInfinity]

Mac, I'm curious where you fall on the scale. Forgive me, but your sig lines don't show up on my screen. I'm a big believer in personal freedom, and I tend to view any lurch to the left as a bad idea. If you take our current position on the scale, I fail to see why moving left would be a good idea. It doesn't matter if you call it Germany or Venezuela, I and many like myself, find this idea against individuality and freedom. Also, I don't think it is illogical to point out that each step to the left makes it easier for the government to continue to slide left. The more powerful the government becomes, the faster it squashes the individual. I'm not sure why you are so upset with people who do not want to move left. You insult us, tell us we can't think for ourselves, and them you blame talk radio for making us sheep. You obviously have no problem with moving left. That just isn't a road I want to go down.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Sorry to say but the leftists will either have to get a job or learn to do with less.

Apparently so will the trumpist trailer park nation... Have you applied anywhere, yet?

STFU liar

Your chart clearly shows many poor people voted for Trump. Thank you for making my point, ya crybaby.