POLL: Does the left want to end capitalism?

Does the left want to end capitalism?

  • I'm left wing - No, I want to emulate Nordic capitalism.

    Votes: 4 6.8%
  • I'm left wing - Yes, I want to end capitalism and bring about total socialism.

    Votes: 3 5.1%
  • I'm left wing - I want something else. (please elaborate with a post)

    Votes: 6 10.2%
  • I'm right wing - No, they want to emulate Scandinavian countries and I disagree with that.

    Votes: 5 8.5%
  • I'm right wing - Yes, they want to end capitalism and bring about total socialism or communism.

    Votes: 22 37.3%
  • I'm right wing - They want something else. (please elaborate with a post)

    Votes: 2 3.4%
  • I'm something else - No, they want to emulate Scandinavian countries.

    Votes: 2 3.4%
  • I'm something else - Yes, they want to end capitalism and bring about total socialism or communism.

    Votes: 10 16.9%
  • I'm something else - They want something else. (please elaborate with a post)

    Votes: 5 8.5%

  • Total voters
    59
What is the left correct about?

Completely unchecked capitalism does not work for ordinary people. It eats itself and becomes destructive to the comfort of everyday people.
Wrong. Unchecked capitalism produced the greatest increase in the standard of living for the common man ever seen.

The industrial revolution didn't hurt. ;)

Right, which was caused by "unchecked capitalism," not government

Which led to the Gilded Age: Poverty, unsafe working conditions, child labor and labor unions

Which lead to government control, sluggish growth, high unemployment and a permanent underclass. The cure was worse than the disease
 
I'm a liberal that likes a healthy portion of socialism with my well regulated capitalism. That is the recipe that makes a vibrant middle class.
So you like class war then, cause that is what you get. How's it working out?

Considering that Republicans crashed the economy twice in the past 40 years and are well on their way to making it three in a row, enriching their corporate backers on the national credit card and getting nothing to show for it.

Obama’s spent his deficit on infrastructure, jobs programs and ending the war on Iraq. His spending primed the pump for the greatest economic
Wow. Did Trump study "Hegelian thought"? Demanding loyalty and making laws via EO's and "justice", i.e. "lock her up, seems to be a good fit with your last paragraph.


No idea, dullard.

Oh, and you fucking liar, Obama used EO's at 7 times the frequency that Trump does. Further, the main use of EO's by Trump is to roll back the illegal acts of your god-emperor.

Here's how many executive orders Trump signed in his first 200 days compared to Obama, Bush, and Clinton
Chart: Donald Trump's first 12 days of executive orders
.

Did Obama, Bush or Clinton issue an EO to separate five year old children from their moms? BTW, I reported this post to the powers that be. Your anger is pathological and your attacks on my character are uncalled for. I suppose you feel safe in doing so while hiding behind your keyboard.

The pictures of children in the cages was taken in 2014. Guess who was President in 2014

One of the published pictures was taken in 2014 of unaccompanied minors, awaiting processing and in true idiot fashion you dolts are trying to claim all the pictures were that old. It’s been difficult to get pictures of the children because DHS wouldn’t allow reporters or even legislators into the detention centres. The only pictures the public saw initially were those the government put out.

But keep going with the lies and deflections. Every time you pull that bullshit it proves how little you have.

Just DNC talking points and fake news

In other words, you’ve got nothing. As usual.
 
I'm a liberal that likes a healthy portion of socialism with my well regulated capitalism. That is the recipe that makes a vibrant middle class.
So you like class war then, cause that is what you get. How's it working out?

Considering that Republicans crashed the economy twice in the past 40 years and are well on their way to making it three in a row, enriching their corporate backers on the national credit card and getting nothing to show for it.

Obama’s spent his deficit on infrastructure, jobs programs and ending the war on Iraq. His spending primed the pump for the greatest economic
No idea, dullard.

Oh, and you fucking liar, Obama used EO's at 7 times the frequency that Trump does. Further, the main use of EO's by Trump is to roll back the illegal acts of your god-emperor.

Here's how many executive orders Trump signed in his first 200 days compared to Obama, Bush, and Clinton
Chart: Donald Trump's first 12 days of executive orders
.

Did Obama, Bush or Clinton issue an EO to separate five year old children from their moms? BTW, I reported this post to the powers that be. Your anger is pathological and your attacks on my character are uncalled for. I suppose you feel safe in doing so while hiding behind your keyboard.

The pictures of children in the cages was taken in 2014. Guess who was President in 2014

One of the published pictures was taken in 2014 of unaccompanied minors, awaiting processing and in true idiot fashion you dolts are trying to claim all the pictures were that old. It’s been difficult to get pictures of the children because DHS wouldn’t allow reporters or even legislators into the detention centres. The only pictures the public saw initially were those the government put out.

But keep going with the lies and deflections. Every time you pull that bullshit it proves how little you have.

Just DNC talking points and fake news

In other words, you’ve got nothing. As usual.

DragonLady: I have nothing kaz, so I'm going to just repeat back to you what you said to me.

You lied that somehow the 2014 pictures weren't Obama. Democrats never did what you did
 
Back to the seminal question:

What I think doesn't matter. What exists is an economic system which has a public sector and a private sector; a a system which has been pretty successful for centuries.

We've had ups and downs, bull and bear markets, wars and peace, and until January of 2017 a good ride with some serious hiccups since the late 18th Century. What we face today is a nation divided and probably more divided than at any other time in our history.

We can see the division every day on this message board, it become tedious to continue to read vacuous posts based on Straw Men and Red Herrings.

The question is about Capitalism. Some seek free markets, i.e. unregulated by government, and never consider how such an economic system can lead to monopolies, cartels and fraud.


The division is the handiwork of you Communists who are engaged in a civil war in an attempt to overthrown the United States Constitution.

The division is manufactured by you to foment the treason you are engaged in.

Thanks so much for sharing; your attention to detail is amazing.

You keep trying to pimp the same lie.

It didn't work the first ten times you told it, yet you are sure you'll get away with it this time.
 
I can't speak for others. Not that you can either, but unlike you I don't try.

I don't know who released it. Could have been Trump, Obama or someone else. No idea
No idea??? WHY would Obama release a return that makes trump look good???

It didn't make Trump look good, it just didn't smear him as much as you Communists had hoped.

Your propaganda outlet, CBS went on for days about how little Trump paid, but it just didn't take. Your little Goebbels initially lied that Trump paid nothing. Then Breitbart busted the lying fucks at CBS and the NY Times, pointing out that Trump paid $38 million in AMT.
Could it be there were over payments that he got back as a refund

Speculation is irrelevant. Obama illegally leaked the return in an effort to create a narrative. The narrative failed because the lie of CBS and the NY Times was called out.

Link, evidence?

The NYT received two pages of Trump’s 2005 returns delivered anonymously to their offices. Speculation is that Trump leaked it himself to prove that he actually paid taxes. It was only the first and last page of his return and it showed no details other than income of $153 million and taxes paid of $38.5 million.

Analysts had been speculating that Trump hadn’t paid taxes since the 1980’s. The return proved them wrong. It makes no logical sense for Obama to leak such information which was helpful to the Trump campaign.

Who Leaked Part of Donald Trump’s 2005 Federal Tax Return?

It makes perfect sense. The NY Times initially lied that Trump paid no taxes. The fucking liars of the DNC press released details of the return that showed that Trump owed no taxes. It was days later when Breitbart released the fact of the AMT of $38 million. The INTENT of Obama and the lying fuck press was to sell a lie that Trump paid no tax.

Trump Wrote Off $100 Million in Losses in 2005, Leaked Forms Show
 
Did Obama...issue an EO to separate five year old children from their moms?
Nope. Instead he did it via a Presidential Memorandum so he could dupe you blind followers into believing that he “issued less Executive Orders than any President in modern history”.

But either way...he was separating children.
 
Why does the right wing believe the People would be worse off with a fifteen dollar an hour minimum wage and unemployment compensation for simply being unemployed in our at-will employment States.

Who would be worse off with fifteen dollar an hour minimum wage and unemployment compensation for simply being unemployed, in our Republic?

Solving simple poverty means capital will be circulating and working for us.

Can the right wing explain how Any person would be worse off with recourse to unemployment compensation for capitalism's natural rate of unemployment?
 
Did Obama...issue an EO to separate five year old children from their moms?
Nope. Instead he did it via a Presidential Memorandum so he could dupe you blind followers into believing that he “issued less Executive Orders than any President in modern history”.

But either way...he was separating children.
YES BUT.......
Obama in 2014 took a mostly punitive approach to border crossers. Trump in 2018 took an entirely punitive one. But Obama was reacting partly to circumstances; Trump was reacting solely to his own desires.

Both presidents prosecuted many border crossers. But Trump’s “zero tolerance” policy created family separation.
Prosecuting people for illegal entry into the US is not new. Illegal entry and illegal reentry have been the two most commonly prosecuted crimes in federal court for years — often via mass trials that basically prosecuted dozens of people at once. Obama didn’t start this trend, but he certainly continued it.
 
Did Obama...issue an EO to separate five year old children from their moms?
Nope. Instead he did it via a Presidential Memorandum so he could dupe you blind followers into believing that he “issued less Executive Orders than any President in modern history”.

But either way...he was separating children.

Immigration experts we spoke to said Obama-era policies did lead to some family separations, but only relatively rarely, and nowhere near the rate of the Trump administration.

"Obama generally refrained from prosecution in cases involving adults who crossed the border with their kids," said Peter Margulies, an immigration law and national security law professor at Roger Williams University School of Law. "In contrast, the current administration has chosen to prosecute adult border-crossers, even when they have kids. That's a choice — one fundamentally different from the choice made by both Obama and previous presidents of both parties."
Obama official cites 'funding challenges' to house minors crossing Mexico border
 
But Obama was reacting partly to circumstances; Trump was reacting solely to his own desires.
There is some fine liberal “logic”. MaObama was reacting solely to his own dictatorial desires. President Trump was reacting to the will of We the People.

We want our borders secure. We want a zero tolerance policy. That’s exactly what President Trump delivered.
 
Immigration experts we spoke to said Obama-era policies did lead to some family separations, but only relatively rarely, and nowhere near the rate of the Trump administration.
Again...some epic liberal “logic”.
Obama only killed 13 people. That is nowhere near the number of people that the Green River Killer killed
Oh...ok. That’s a perfect argument. Idiot. :eusa_doh:
 
But Obama was reacting partly to circumstances; Trump was reacting solely to his own desires.
We want our borders secure. We want a zero tolerance policy. That’s exactly what President Trump delivered.

85
 
Capitalism often behaves like Communism, cutting corners on products to make profits, while Communists cut corners on products to make ends meet.
But unlike the fascism/communism you adore, with capitalism we haven the luxury of not purchasing and/or not entering into business transactions with those that “cut corners to make profits”. Idiot.
 
Capitalism often behaves like Communism, cutting corners on products to make profits, while Communists cut corners on products to make ends meet.
But unlike the fascism/communism you adore, with capitalism we haven the luxury of not purchasing and/or not entering into business transactions with those that “cut corners to make profits”. Idiot.

Why would Fascists tolerate cutting corners on products, exactly?
 
Did Obama...issue an EO to separate five year old children from their moms?
Nope. Instead he did it via a Presidential Memorandum so he could dupe you blind followers into believing that he “issued less Executive Orders than any President in modern history”.

But either way...he was separating children.

Immigration experts we spoke to said Obama-era policies did lead to some family separations, but only relatively rarely, and nowhere near the rate of the Trump administration.

"Obama generally refrained from prosecution in cases involving adults who crossed the border with their kids," said Peter Margulies, an immigration law and national security law professor at Roger Williams University School of Law. "In contrast, the current administration has chosen to prosecute adult border-crossers, even when they have kids. That's a choice — one fundamentally different from the choice made by both Obama and previous presidents of both parties."
Obama official cites 'funding challenges' to house minors crossing Mexico border
Which leads to incentivizing using kids to cross the border.

That is part of the problem.
 

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