POLL: Does the size and role of government exist on a continuum?

[Norman]

I guess expecting a "yes" or "no" answer to a "yes" or "no" question is a bit too complicated.

Just out of curiosity, do you believe that the size, scope and role of government exists on a continuum?

That's a "yes" or "no" question right there. Please don't equivocate.
.

You don't like yes or no answers, remember?

And you've been given many good answers in this thread but you've blown them all off because you didn't like the answer.

You're playing a game here with your question that obviously has more than an a yes or no answer.

Everything lies on a continuum... except yes and no. Then it's actually binary, with no in-between allowed, black and white, cut and dry.

Exactly. Mac is asking for a yes or no answer to a question that can't be answered with a yes or no.

He's playing a foolish little game trying to get someone, anyone, to say that America is a socialist nation... if you're dumb enough to play his stupid little obvious game.

It can be answered with a yes or no, and it is obviously true. Bu it is certainly not a question asked in good faith.

Well, I disagree with that, because America is a capitalist nation with socialist components, so the answer is neither yes or no.

The question regarding size of government that is.

America is decidedly NOT a socialist country.

 

[Mac1958]

It can be answered with a yes or no, and it is obviously true. Bu it is certainly not a question asked in good faith.

That's fair.

First, the answer is obviously "yes", but these guys are afraid to say that. That's both dishonest and cowardly.

And second, I'm happy to provide the context: In any discussion here about the size and role of government, particularly when the subject is "socialism", most Trumpsters here automatically default to VENEZUELA, precisely the way Regressive Lefties here always automatically default to RACISM when the chips are down.

I want to believe that they know better. I want to believe that they understand that the role of government exists on a continuum, and that Venezuela is not at all the goal. I often provide the obvious countries that the social democrats point to (Canada, Australia, Germany, Norway, whatever), and that's when they start playing games.

I'd like an honest conversation on this topic, but I think you know that's not what is happening. I want to believe these guys know better.
.

 

[Norman]

It can be answered with a yes or no, and it is obviously true. Bu it is certainly not a question asked in good faith.

And second, I'm happy to provide the context: In any discussion here about the size and role of government, particularly when the subject is "socialism", most Trumpsters here automatically default to VENEZUELA, precisely the way Regressive Lefties here always automatically default to RACISM when the chips are down.
.

Yes, because it's funny. And also because we should resist all expansions of government.

Venezuelan government is actually comparable to the size of the US anyway, and no one can deny that the leftists want to move towards that direction. No guns, pro-censorship, open borders...

 

[007]

I want to believe that they know better. I want to believe that they understand that the role of government exists on a continuum, and that Venezuela is not at all the goal.
.

It most certainly is for some, like Sanders who is an openly, admitted socialist, and his free, free, free proposals, including allowing terrorists to vote from prison, and now his newest proposal to cease all deportations of illegal aliens, he's not only a socialist, he's an anti American radical.

Thank God he doesn't stand a chance of ever being president.

 

[Mac1958]

It can be answered with a yes or no, and it is obviously true. Bu it is certainly not a question asked in good faith.

And second, I'm happy to provide the context: In any discussion here about the size and role of government, particularly when the subject is "socialism", most Trumpsters here automatically default to VENEZUELA, precisely the way Regressive Lefties here always automatically default to RACISM when the chips are down.
.

Yes, because it's funny. And also because we should resist all expansions of government.

Venezuelan government is actually comparable to the size of the US anyway, and no one can deny that the leftists want to move towards that direction. No guns, pro-censorship, open borders...

I just think that honest conversations are far, far more interesting and educational than endless, mindless partisan flame-throwing.
.

 

[Mac1958]

I want to believe that they know better. I want to believe that they understand that the role of government exists on a continuum, and that Venezuela is not at all the goal.
.

It most certainly is for some, like Sanders who is an openly, admitted socialist, and his free, free, free proposals, including allowing terrorists to vote from prison, and now his newest proposal to cease all deportations of illegal aliens, he's not only a socialist, he's an anti American radical.

Thank God he doesn't stand a chance of ever being president.

He could be further left. The only industry he wants to nationalize is health care (and as I've pointed out before, that "Medicare for All" line is a lie, because our REAL Medicare system includes a huge free market component, and what he wants is true Single Payer).

Obviously that wouldn't be good. But he's not after government ownership of all production and distribution. He'd appear to fit in with the standard euro-social democracies of Canada, Australia, Germany, etc.
.

 

[007]

I want to believe that they know better. I want to believe that they understand that the role of government exists on a continuum, and that Venezuela is not at all the goal.
.

It most certainly is for some, like Sanders who is an openly, admitted socialist, and his free, free, free proposals, including allowing terrorists to vote from prison, and now his newest proposal to cease all deportations of illegal aliens, he's not only a socialist, he's an anti American radical.

Thank God he doesn't stand a chance of ever being president.

He could be further left. The only industry he wants to nationalize is health care (and as I've pointed out before, that "Medicare for All" line is a lie, because our REAL Medicare system includes a huge free market component, and what he wants is true Single Payer).

Obviously that wouldn't be good. But he's not after government ownership of all production and distribution. He'd appear to fit in with the standard euro-social democracies of Canada, Australia, Germany, etc.
.

He's all about free college too. Just those two things would cripple our economy, and we'd be in the same situation is Venezuela.

 

[Mac1958]

I want to believe that they know better. I want to believe that they understand that the role of government exists on a continuum, and that Venezuela is not at all the goal.
.

It most certainly is for some, like Sanders who is an openly, admitted socialist, and his free, free, free proposals, including allowing terrorists to vote from prison, and now his newest proposal to cease all deportations of illegal aliens, he's not only a socialist, he's an anti American radical.

Thank God he doesn't stand a chance of ever being president.

He could be further left. The only industry he wants to nationalize is health care (and as I've pointed out before, that "Medicare for All" line is a lie, because our REAL Medicare system includes a huge free market component, and what he wants is true Single Payer).

Obviously that wouldn't be good. But he's not after government ownership of all production and distribution. He'd appear to fit in with the standard euro-social democracies of Canada, Australia, Germany, etc.
.

He's all about free college too. Just those two things would cripple our economy.

Since I admittedly don't really understand politics, I don't know if he and the other Dem candidates are really serious about some of the promises they're making, or if they realize they would have to moderate back to sanity.

Off the top of my head, I'd think they might "settle" for any number of things like interest-free loans or whatever.

Every time they toss out a wild promise, they say they'll have "the rich" pay for it. They may be partisan nuts, but they're not that stupid. They know "the rich" can only pay for so much, no matter HOW high taxes could get. So who knows what they'd REALLY do.
.

 

[007]

I want to believe that they know better. I want to believe that they understand that the role of government exists on a continuum, and that Venezuela is not at all the goal.
.

It most certainly is for some, like Sanders who is an openly, admitted socialist, and his free, free, free proposals, including allowing terrorists to vote from prison, and now his newest proposal to cease all deportations of illegal aliens, he's not only a socialist, he's an anti American radical.

Thank God he doesn't stand a chance of ever being president.

He could be further left. The only industry he wants to nationalize is health care (and as I've pointed out before, that "Medicare for All" line is a lie, because our REAL Medicare system includes a huge free market component, and what he wants is true Single Payer).

Obviously that wouldn't be good. But he's not after government ownership of all production and distribution. He'd appear to fit in with the standard euro-social democracies of Canada, Australia, Germany, etc.
.

He's all about free college too. Just those two things would cripple our economy.

Since I admittedly don't really understand politics, I don't know if he and the other Dem candidates are really serious about some of the promises they're making, or if they realize they would have to moderate back to sanity.

Off the top of my head, I'd think they might "settle" for any number of things like interest-free loans or whatever.

Every time they toss out a wild promise, they say they'll have "the rich" pay for it. They may be partisan nuts, but they're not that stupid. They know "the rich" can only pay for so much, no matter HOW high taxes could get. So who knows what they'd REALLY do.
.

That's the oddest factor in the equation. These radicals promising the moon and then some and can't possibly deliver on their promises. But they do it because there's so many people dumb enough to believe they could. But I also understand the incredible appeal FREE STUFF has on people, especially the uneducated, lazy, stupid, or anyone combination of the mentioned. They appear to have no realization that nothing is really free. Someone has to pay for it, and when and if the people that are being fleeced run out of money, or incentive to keep making money, the free stuff ends, and then we're all in the toilet. That's how it works. That's how it's worked everywhere and every time it's been tried.

 

[Mac1958]

I want to believe that they know better. I want to believe that they understand that the role of government exists on a continuum, and that Venezuela is not at all the goal.
.

It most certainly is for some, like Sanders who is an openly, admitted socialist, and his free, free, free proposals, including allowing terrorists to vote from prison, and now his newest proposal to cease all deportations of illegal aliens, he's not only a socialist, he's an anti American radical.

Thank God he doesn't stand a chance of ever being president.

He could be further left. The only industry he wants to nationalize is health care (and as I've pointed out before, that "Medicare for All" line is a lie, because our REAL Medicare system includes a huge free market component, and what he wants is true Single Payer).

Obviously that wouldn't be good. But he's not after government ownership of all production and distribution. He'd appear to fit in with the standard euro-social democracies of Canada, Australia, Germany, etc.
.

He's all about free college too. Just those two things would cripple our economy.

Since I admittedly don't really understand politics, I don't know if he and the other Dem candidates are really serious about some of the promises they're making, or if they realize they would have to moderate back to sanity.

Off the top of my head, I'd think they might "settle" for any number of things like interest-free loans or whatever.

Every time they toss out a wild promise, they say they'll have "the rich" pay for it. They may be partisan nuts, but they're not that stupid. They know "the rich" can only pay for so much, no matter HOW high taxes could get. So who knows what they'd REALLY do.
.

That's the oddest factor in the equation. These radicals promising the moon and then some and can't possibly deliver on their promises. What baffles me is how there's so many people dumb enough to believe they could. But I also understand the incredible appeal FREE STUFF has on people, especially the uneducated, lazy, stupid, or anyone combination of the mentioned. They appear to have no realization that nothing is really free. Someone has to pay for it, and when and if the people that are being fleeced run out of money, or incentive to keep making money, the free stuff ends, and then we're all in the toilet. That's how it works. That's how it's worked everywhere and ever time it's been tried.

I don't know what goes on in someone's mind when they not connecting things like that. But politicians know that they can manipulate people and they know how to do it.

Worse, our system is currently configured to absolutely enable that, and we just don't seem to give a shit as a society.
.

 

[Norman]

I want to believe that they know better. I want to believe that they understand that the role of government exists on a continuum, and that Venezuela is not at all the goal.
.

It most certainly is for some, like Sanders who is an openly, admitted socialist, and his free, free, free proposals, including allowing terrorists to vote from prison, and now his newest proposal to cease all deportations of illegal aliens, he's not only a socialist, he's an anti American radical.

Thank God he doesn't stand a chance of ever being president.

He could be further left. The only industry he wants to nationalize is health care (and as I've pointed out before, that "Medicare for All" line is a lie, because our REAL Medicare system includes a huge free market component, and what he wants is true Single Payer).

Obviously that wouldn't be good. But he's not after government ownership of all production and distribution. He'd appear to fit in with the standard euro-social democracies of Canada, Australia, Germany, etc.
.

He's all about free college too. Just those two things would cripple our economy.

Since I admittedly don't really understand politics, I don't know if he and the other Dem candidates are really serious about some of the promises they're making, or if they realize they would have to moderate back to sanity.

Off the top of my head, I'd think they might "settle" for any number of things like interest-free loans or whatever.

Every time they toss out a wild promise, they say they'll have "the rich" pay for it. They may be partisan nuts, but they're not that stupid. They know "the rich" can only pay for so much, no matter HOW high taxes could get. So who knows what they'd REALLY do.
.

That's the oddest factor in the equation. These radicals promising the moon and then some and can't possibly deliver on their promises. But they do it because there's so many people dumb enough to believe they could. But I also understand the incredible appeal FREE STUFF has on people, especially the uneducated, lazy, stupid, or anyone combination of the mentioned. They appear to have no realization that nothing is really free. Someone has to pay for it, and when and if the people that are being fleeced run out of money, or incentive to keep making money, the free stuff ends, and then we're all in the toilet. That's how it works. That's how it's worked everywhere and every time it's been tried.

Their base is the underclass who can not produce, not the middle class.

This is why Mac is on the fence, he knows that this party will destroy the middle class way of life that he enjoys. On the other hand, he is no American so the likes of Trump are also out of the question. A bit of a dilemma...

 

[Mac1958]

It most certainly is for some, like Sanders who is an openly, admitted socialist, and his free, free, free proposals, including allowing terrorists to vote from prison, and now his newest proposal to cease all deportations of illegal aliens, he's not only a socialist, he's an anti American radical.

Thank God he doesn't stand a chance of ever being president.

He could be further left. The only industry he wants to nationalize is health care (and as I've pointed out before, that "Medicare for All" line is a lie, because our REAL Medicare system includes a huge free market component, and what he wants is true Single Payer).

Obviously that wouldn't be good. But he's not after government ownership of all production and distribution. He'd appear to fit in with the standard euro-social democracies of Canada, Australia, Germany, etc.
.

He's all about free college too. Just those two things would cripple our economy.

Since I admittedly don't really understand politics, I don't know if he and the other Dem candidates are really serious about some of the promises they're making, or if they realize they would have to moderate back to sanity.

Off the top of my head, I'd think they might "settle" for any number of things like interest-free loans or whatever.

Every time they toss out a wild promise, they say they'll have "the rich" pay for it. They may be partisan nuts, but they're not that stupid. They know "the rich" can only pay for so much, no matter HOW high taxes could get. So who knows what they'd REALLY do.
.

That's the oddest factor in the equation. These radicals promising the moon and then some and can't possibly deliver on their promises. But they do it because there's so many people dumb enough to believe they could. But I also understand the incredible appeal FREE STUFF has on people, especially the uneducated, lazy, stupid, or anyone combination of the mentioned. They appear to have no realization that nothing is really free. Someone has to pay for it, and when and if the people that are being fleeced run out of money, or incentive to keep making money, the free stuff ends, and then we're all in the toilet. That's how it works. That's how it's worked everywhere and every time it's been tried.

Their base is the underclass who can not produce, not the middle class.

This is why Mac is on the fence, he knows that this party will destroy the middle class way of life that he enjoys. On the other hand, he is no American so the likes of Trump are also out of the question. A bit of a dilemma...

I'm not an American?
.

 

[Norman]

He could be further left. The only industry he wants to nationalize is health care (and as I've pointed out before, that "Medicare for All" line is a lie, because our REAL Medicare system includes a huge free market component, and what he wants is true Single Payer).

Obviously that wouldn't be good. But he's not after government ownership of all production and distribution. He'd appear to fit in with the standard euro-social democracies of Canada, Australia, Germany, etc.
.

He's all about free college too. Just those two things would cripple our economy.

Since I admittedly don't really understand politics, I don't know if he and the other Dem candidates are really serious about some of the promises they're making, or if they realize they would have to moderate back to sanity.

Off the top of my head, I'd think they might "settle" for any number of things like interest-free loans or whatever.

Every time they toss out a wild promise, they say they'll have "the rich" pay for it. They may be partisan nuts, but they're not that stupid. They know "the rich" can only pay for so much, no matter HOW high taxes could get. So who knows what they'd REALLY do.
.

That's the oddest factor in the equation. These radicals promising the moon and then some and can't possibly deliver on their promises. But they do it because there's so many people dumb enough to believe they could. But I also understand the incredible appeal FREE STUFF has on people, especially the uneducated, lazy, stupid, or anyone combination of the mentioned. They appear to have no realization that nothing is really free. Someone has to pay for it, and when and if the people that are being fleeced run out of money, or incentive to keep making money, the free stuff ends, and then we're all in the toilet. That's how it works. That's how it's worked everywhere and every time it's been tried.

Their base is the underclass who can not produce, not the middle class.

This is why Mac is on the fence, he knows that this party will destroy the middle class way of life that he enjoys. On the other hand, he is no American so the likes of Trump are also out of the question. A bit of a dilemma...

I'm not an American?
.

I do not believe so... paper American perhaps.

 

[Mac1958]

He's all about free college too. Just those two things would cripple our economy.

Since I admittedly don't really understand politics, I don't know if he and the other Dem candidates are really serious about some of the promises they're making, or if they realize they would have to moderate back to sanity.

Off the top of my head, I'd think they might "settle" for any number of things like interest-free loans or whatever.

Every time they toss out a wild promise, they say they'll have "the rich" pay for it. They may be partisan nuts, but they're not that stupid. They know "the rich" can only pay for so much, no matter HOW high taxes could get. So who knows what they'd REALLY do.
.

That's the oddest factor in the equation. These radicals promising the moon and then some and can't possibly deliver on their promises. But they do it because there's so many people dumb enough to believe they could. But I also understand the incredible appeal FREE STUFF has on people, especially the uneducated, lazy, stupid, or anyone combination of the mentioned. They appear to have no realization that nothing is really free. Someone has to pay for it, and when and if the people that are being fleeced run out of money, or incentive to keep making money, the free stuff ends, and then we're all in the toilet. That's how it works. That's how it's worked everywhere and every time it's been tried.

Their base is the underclass who can not produce, not the middle class.

This is why Mac is on the fence, he knows that this party will destroy the middle class way of life that he enjoys. On the other hand, he is no American so the likes of Trump are also out of the question. A bit of a dilemma...

I'm not an American?
.

I do not believe so... paper American perhaps.

Wow, that's interesting.

Would I be an American if I agreed with you on everything?
.

 

[Norman]

Since I admittedly don't really understand politics, I don't know if he and the other Dem candidates are really serious about some of the promises they're making, or if they realize they would have to moderate back to sanity.

Off the top of my head, I'd think they might "settle" for any number of things like interest-free loans or whatever.

Every time they toss out a wild promise, they say they'll have "the rich" pay for it. They may be partisan nuts, but they're not that stupid. They know "the rich" can only pay for so much, no matter HOW high taxes could get. So who knows what they'd REALLY do.
.

That's the oddest factor in the equation. These radicals promising the moon and then some and can't possibly deliver on their promises. But they do it because there's so many people dumb enough to believe they could. But I also understand the incredible appeal FREE STUFF has on people, especially the uneducated, lazy, stupid, or anyone combination of the mentioned. They appear to have no realization that nothing is really free. Someone has to pay for it, and when and if the people that are being fleeced run out of money, or incentive to keep making money, the free stuff ends, and then we're all in the toilet. That's how it works. That's how it's worked everywhere and every time it's been tried.

Their base is the underclass who can not produce, not the middle class.

This is why Mac is on the fence, he knows that this party will destroy the middle class way of life that he enjoys. On the other hand, he is no American so the likes of Trump are also out of the question. A bit of a dilemma...

I'm not an American?
.

I do not believe so... paper American perhaps.

Wow, that's interesting.

Would I be an American if I agreed with you on everything?
.

You would be an American if you are genetic heritage of the original American settlers.

It sounds to me like your family is from outside of America.

 

[Mac1958]

That's the oddest factor in the equation. These radicals promising the moon and then some and can't possibly deliver on their promises. But they do it because there's so many people dumb enough to believe they could. But I also understand the incredible appeal FREE STUFF has on people, especially the uneducated, lazy, stupid, or anyone combination of the mentioned. They appear to have no realization that nothing is really free. Someone has to pay for it, and when and if the people that are being fleeced run out of money, or incentive to keep making money, the free stuff ends, and then we're all in the toilet. That's how it works. That's how it's worked everywhere and every time it's been tried.

Their base is the underclass who can not produce, not the middle class.

This is why Mac is on the fence, he knows that this party will destroy the middle class way of life that he enjoys. On the other hand, he is no American so the likes of Trump are also out of the question. A bit of a dilemma...

I'm not an American?
.

I do not believe so... paper American perhaps.

Wow, that's interesting.

Would I be an American if I agreed with you on everything?
.

You would be an American if you are genetic heritage of the original American settlers.

Wow, that's quite a standard there.

Your own little personal definition. Cool.
.

 

[Norman]

Their base is the underclass who can not produce, not the middle class.

This is why Mac is on the fence, he knows that this party will destroy the middle class way of life that he enjoys. On the other hand, he is no American so the likes of Trump are also out of the question. A bit of a dilemma...

I'm not an American?
.

I do not believe so... paper American perhaps.

Wow, that's interesting.

Would I be an American if I agreed with you on everything?
.

You would be an American if you are genetic heritage of the original American settlers.

Wow, that's quite a standard there.

Your own little personal definition. Cool.
.

That's who the country was founded for, and no one else.

It's not difficult to tell that you aren't one, because an American who boasts views that are antithetical to his own interest is a rare thing. This is also in essence why immigration will not ever work and it was foolish to think it would work.

 

[Mac1958]

I'm not an American?
.

I do not believe so... paper American perhaps.

Wow, that's interesting.

Would I be an American if I agreed with you on everything?
.

You would be an American if you are genetic heritage of the original American settlers.

Wow, that's quite a standard there.

Your own little personal definition. Cool.
.

That's who the country was founded for, and no one else.

It's not difficult to tell that you aren't one, because an American who boasts views that are antithetical to his own interest is a rare thing. This is also in essence why immigration will not ever work and it was foolish to think it would work.

Well, you're certainly free to operate under whatever definition of "American" suits your fancy.

It has no actual value, of course, but no fantasy does.

Maybe this is one of those things you guys are taught in the alternate universe, who knows. I only have so much exposure to that.
.

 

[Norman]

I do not believe so... paper American perhaps.

Wow, that's interesting.

Would I be an American if I agreed with you on everything?
.

You would be an American if you are genetic heritage of the original American settlers.

Wow, that's quite a standard there.

Your own little personal definition. Cool.
.

That's who the country was founded for, and no one else.

It's not difficult to tell that you aren't one, because an American who boasts views that are antithetical to his own interest is a rare thing. This is also in essence why immigration will not ever work and it was foolish to think it would work.

Well, you're certainly free to operate under whatever definition of "American" suits your fancy.

It has no actual value, of course, but no fantasy does.

Maybe this is one of those things you guys are taught in the alternate universe, who knows. I only have so much exposure to that.
.

Are you denying that the country was founded for the Americans and their offspring?

This goes right to the root what pisses so many Americans off. These immigrants like Mac coming into the country, declaring themselves American, and right after declaring how Americans should live with a huge government, antithetical to the American values. And of course, antithetical to the self interest of Americans.

 

[Mac1958]

Wow, that's interesting.

Would I be an American if I agreed with you on everything?
.

You would be an American if you are genetic heritage of the original American settlers.

Wow, that's quite a standard there.

Your own little personal definition. Cool.
.

That's who the country was founded for, and no one else.

It's not difficult to tell that you aren't one, because an American who boasts views that are antithetical to his own interest is a rare thing. This is also in essence why immigration will not ever work and it was foolish to think it would work.

Well, you're certainly free to operate under whatever definition of "American" suits your fancy.

It has no actual value, of course, but no fantasy does.

Maybe this is one of those things you guys are taught in the alternate universe, who knows. I only have so much exposure to that.
.

Are you denying that the country was founded for the Americans and their offspring?

This goes right to the root what pisses so many Americans off. These immigrants like Mac coming into the country, declaring themselves American, and right after declaring how Americans should live with a huge government, antithetical to the American values. And of course, antithetical to the self interest of Americans.

Um, I'm not an immigrant, nor were my parents.

Seriously, how does stuff like this make it into your head?
.