Poll for USMB conservatives: The social safety net

[hortysir]

When people are pointing at a welfare recipient, it annoys them to discover they are also takers. They can't handle the truth.

So include all of it

My answer doesn't change

 

[FA_Q2]

I support a basic safety net for those in need. The real problem with poverty is that it creates crime. When you are hungry and unable to get a meal, there are very few things that you are not willing to do in order to get some food. For the general order of society, something is needed to provide the basic needs of those that cannot fend for themselves. Further, it is the correct thing to do when there are those that are unable to provide for themselves.

The problem is that we no longer have the mentality that they are safety nets. SNAP is used for all kinds of bullshit purchases likecandy and energydrinks. That is not providing for a basic need but rather providing for wants. Obamaphone - not safety net, cheese - safety net. That is NOT something that the government should be doing. Rabbi is also correct that the system should work from the bottom up rather than the top down. States and municipalities should be covering this ground and would be far better equipped to handle the needs of their population.

WIC is what SNAP should be. A voucher that gives the person using it a list of foods they can get at the store. ONLY those foods can be 'purchased' with the voucher. If the government is providing the need, they should actually provide rather than cash giveaways. There should be zero in the way of actual cash going to anyone from the government.

Sent from my ADR8995 using Tapatalk 2

 

[FA_Q2]

What do you mean by "the social safety net"? That might be key here.
I'd be in favor of dismantling every federal program that deals with providing whatever to people. That role properly belongs to: the family, the community, the municipality, and the state, in that order.
Obviously people experience various hardships from time to time and need a hand temporarily. No one is saying they shouldn't have it. Nor is anyone saying people who genuinely are disabled and cannot work should not get any help. But too many people become "disabled" meaning they can't move furniture or roof houses, while they could be doing something else. And if min wage laws didnt apply they could probably find something.

Can you flesh out a scenario of how this works?

This sounds so reasonable: "That role properly belongs to: the family, the community, the municipality, and the state, in that order" doesn't it? But fails in practicality. So I must be missing something, but let me try:

John Doe incurs a hardship. So Plan A, he goes to his family. Ooops, they can't help him, they are living paycheck to paycheck, as are many Americans five years into the recession.

So John Doe now goes to "the community". Can you tell me what that looks like and where it is? Is that a food bank or a homeless shelter? Or the Community theater?

John Doe next goes to his "municipality". Again, what is that? In my town the municipal building houses the police department and the local township tax office.

You see, you people are just full of rhetorical shit. That's the conservative way. Pretty words with no fucking substance.

Carry on.

Really? What is a municipality? Do you reallynot know what thatis? Come back when you get a fucking clue as to how the government is divided up. It seems that you are unaware that our government is MORE than the feds and that there are local governments that could easily take care of those needs. The sad fact is that local governments have been castrated by the feds getting involved, taking all the tax monies and then returning it in some boondoggle of a federal program with far greater graft and inefficiency than any state could dream of achieving.

 

[Sunshine]

"Social Safety Net" = Medicare, Medicaid, food stamps, tax deductions, tax credits, corporate and farm subsidies, GSEs, bailouts, public transportation, price supports, public works, ObamaCare...ad infinitum.

Let he who is without a government tit in his mouth cast the first stone.

Start your own poll if you want prog horseshit included.

Every one of those things I listed are government crutches which force other people to pay higher taxes or the government to borrow more money. Just threaten to remove any one of them, and watch someone howl like a welfare queen to protect it.


Let he who is without a government tit in his mouth cast the first stone.

Medicare is not a freebie. We have Medicare taxes deducted from our paychecks. The tax structure is designed to promote commerce which in turn will bring in more taxes. Deal with it. There are too many people who suck off the system never having worked or paid in.

I have never been on welfare, food stamps, Obamacare, or gotten any kind of bailout. Nor have I ever gotten a corporate or farm subsidy. And since I have never gotten any 'bailout.' I don't even know what you mean by price supports and public works.

 

[FA_Q2]

When people are pointing at a welfare recipient, it annoys them to discover they are also takers. They can't handle the truth.

BS. We know that we recive bennies as well. We are not offered the option though. I am against almost ALL assistance that I recive. I dont need it. We should still oppose gov. cheese that is wrong while supporting real and basic safety nets.

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[cutter]

Do you include in the 'down on their luck" column the generation after generation of welfare recipients that have no desire to better themselves if it means they have to work, get educated and be responsible for their personal behavior?

 

[daveman]

"Social Safety Net" = Medicare, Medicaid, food stamps, tax deductions, tax credits, corporate and farm subsidies, GSEs, bailouts, public transportation, price supports, public works, ObamaCare...ad infinitum.

Let he who is without a government tit in his mouth cast the first stone.

Start your own poll if you want prog horseshit included.

Every one of those things I listed are government crutches which force other people to pay higher taxes or the government to borrow more money. Just threaten to remove any one of them, and watch someone howl like a welfare queen to protect it.


Let he who is without a government tit in his mouth cast the first stone.

Start your own poll if you want prog horseshit included.

 

[emilynghiem]

USMB conservatives only, please. The poll will show who's voted, so any progs trying to game it will be exposed.

Question:

Do you support the social safety net? Programs that allow people to get back on their feet and off public assistance. A hand up, not a hand out.

This is in contrast to the professional, Nth-generation welfare recipients.

Dear Daveman: I believe in microloans, sustainable business and training in self-government, and investing payback to taxpayers as restitution for either crimes or govt or corporate abuses to finance internships in community service/development so that any social programs are self-sustaining and/or generate income to teach self-reliance.

Does that count as within the safety net or reforming it in the future?

I believe in plans to convert public housing into sustainable campuses through such models and expanding this to convert prisons and sweatshops into work-study programs so that people are financially responsible for privileges we have as working lawabiding citizens.

Earned Amnesty
http://www.houstonprogressive.org
music video for Sustainable Campus converting sweatshop labor to workstudy jobs

 

[daveman]

"Social Safety Net" = Medicare, Medicaid, food stamps, tax deductions, tax credits, corporate and farm subsidies, GSEs, bailouts, public transportation, price supports, public works, ObamaCare...ad infinitum.

Let he who is without a government tit in his mouth cast the first stone.

Start your own poll if you want prog horseshit included.

You are bound by the forum rules the same as always, nothing different.

Find me one that says I have to include the votes from lying progressives.

 

[daveman]

Do you include in the 'down on their luck" column the generation after generation of welfare recipients that have no desire to better themselves if it means they have to work, get educated and be responsible for their personal behavior?

No. Refusing to work is not the same thing as being unable to work, no matter what the left says.

 

[Katzndogz]

What is truly needy? The woman with two children suddenly widowed might be truly needy. The woman who has two kids and a third on the way who doesn't know who the baby daddy's for any of them is NOT truly needy.

The paraplegic or quadraplegic might be truly needy, but the one who claims PTSD and self medicates with drugs is NOT truly needy.

People used to have some sense of pride. Help belonged to the genuinely in need. Pride is one of those things, like decency that democrats reject.

 

[daveman]

USMB conservatives only, please. The poll will show who's voted, so any progs trying to game it will be exposed.

Question:

Do you support the social safety net? Programs that allow people to get back on their feet and off public assistance. A hand up, not a hand out.

This is in contrast to the professional, Nth-generation welfare recipients.

Dear Daveman: I believe in microloans, sustainable business and training in self-government, and investing payback to taxpayers as restitution for either crimes or govt or corporate abuses to finance internships in community service/development so that any social programs are self-sustaining and/or generate income to teach self-reliance.

Does that count as within the safety net or reforming it in the future?

I believe in plans to convert public housing into sustainable campuses through such models and expanding this to convert prisons and sweatshops into work-study programs so that people are financially responsible for privileges we have as working lawabiding citizens.

Earned Amnesty
http://www.houstonprogressive.org
music video for Sustainable Campus converting sweatshop labor to workstudy jobs

Okay. Please don't vote in my poll; it's aimed at conservatives only.

 

[WelfareQueen]

Let's cut through the bullshit, okay.


My wife and me have both worked with "social safety net" folks for years. Very few are down on their luck. The overwhelming majority are lazy, stupid, general fuck ups, or like to stay high and/or a combination of all of the above.

Liberals who talk about this shit make me laugh because they have zero experience working with this population, and have no fucking idea what they're taking about.

The only thing that gets people off "social safety net programs" (I love the phrase, it's so Orwellian) is tough love. If you want a handout from the state...what does the state get in return. It better be something tangible or people will be on "social safety net" programs for generations.

Roughly 3%-5% of the population is truly mentally or physically disabled. They deserve help...but if you are labeled "disabled" and are getting benefits, you must surrender your driver's license. If you are so disabled you cannot work....you should not be capable of driving.

And people in prison should be required to work 8 hours a day like everyone else. Refuse to work put the person in solitary and add time to their sentence.

Finally, a quick story. My wife worked for many years as a child therapist in a inner city clinic. Roughly 70% of the Mothers and their kids were on welfare and other "social safety net programs," many for years. When welfare work requirements came into place, one of the mothers told my wife...."It's really hard to work and raise kids."

My wife said basically...."no shit, that's what everyone else in America does, tell me why you're so special and different?" Demand work in exchange for benefits and hold people accountable. That is the answer.

 

[g5000]

Start your own poll if you want prog horseshit included.

Every one of those things I listed are government crutches which force other people to pay higher taxes or the government to borrow more money. Just threaten to remove any one of them, and watch someone howl like a welfare queen to protect it.


Let he who is without a government tit in his mouth cast the first stone.

Start your own poll if you want prog horseshit included.

It's a shame your brain has been so softened by government milk you cannot tell the difference between libertarian ideas and progressive ones.

 

[blackhawk]

USMB conservatives only, please. The poll will show who's voted, so any progs trying to game it will be exposed.

Question:

Do you support the social safety net? Programs that allow people to get back on their feet and off public assistance. A hand up, not a hand out.

This is in contrast to the professional, Nth-generation welfare recipients.

Simple answer yes.

 

[cutter]

After reading who you included on the needy list I voted YES. I didn't vote until then. The trouble with polls is most people don't have a clue what their voting on.

 

[Contumacious]

You see, you people are just full of rhetorical shit. That's the conservative way. Pretty words with no fucking substance.

Carry on. [/B]

Now you see why some taxpayers and producers are thinking violence.

The parasites believe that their needs constitute a valid lien on the property of the taxpayers and producers.

.

 

[Sunshine]

Let's cut through the bullshit, okay.


My wife and me have both worked with "social safety net" folks for years. Very few are down on their luck. The overwhelming majority are lazy, stupid, general fuck ups, or like to stay high and/or a combination of all of the above.

Liberals who talk about this shit make me laugh because they have zero experience working with this population, and have no fucking idea what they're taking about.

The only thing that gets people off "social safety net programs" (I love the phrase, it's so Orwellian) is tough love. If you want a handout from the state...what does the state get in return. It better be something tangible or people will be on "social safety net" programs for generations.

Roughly 3%-5% of the population is truly mentally or physically disabled. They deserve help...but if you are labeled "disabled" and are getting benefits, you must surrender your driver's license. If you are so disabled you cannot work....you should not be capable of driving.

And people in prison should be required to work 8 hours a day like everyone else. Refuse to work put the person in solitary and add time to their sentence.

Finally, a quick story. My wife worked for many years as a child therapist in a inner city clinic. Roughly 70% of the Mothers and their kids were on welfare and other "social safety net programs," many for years. When welfare work requirements came into place, one of the mothers told my wife...."It's really hard to work and raise kids."

My wife said basically...."no shit, that's what everyone else in America does, tell me why you're so special and different?" Demand work in exchange for benefits and hold people accountable. That is the answer.

The best way to get people off the social safety net is to not ever let them get on it.

 

[daveman]

Every one of those things I listed are government crutches which force other people to pay higher taxes or the government to borrow more money. Just threaten to remove any one of them, and watch someone howl like a welfare queen to protect it.


Let he who is without a government tit in his mouth cast the first stone.

Start your own poll if you want prog horseshit included.

It's a shame your brain has been so softened by government milk you cannot tell the difference between libertarian ideas and progressive ones.

And yet, oddly, your posts still smell like horseshit.

Start your own poll. Your little hissy fit here is neither sought nor required.

 

[alan1]

"Social Safety Net" = Medicare, Medicaid, food stamps, tax deductions, tax credits, corporate and farm subsidies, GSEs, bailouts, public transportation, price supports, public works, ObamaCare...ad infinitum.

Let he who is without a government tit in his mouth cast the first stone.

Duck,