POLL: How many recent police shootings would have happened if....

[DigitalDrifter]

So you must be the one person who voted "100% - The cops would have found an excuse to kill them anyway".

I absolutely believe that you absolutely believe that.

Who cares what you believe, Termite.

The problem is - cops shoot black people at a much greater frequency than they shoot white people. THis is an established fact.

There are certain facts that people like Joe will simply ignore.

Until the following facts become part of the conversation, we’re never going to see a real reduction in the number of violent confrontations involving black people and police officers. But the mainstream media, political leaders and white people in general are afraid to even mention these facts for fear of being labeled racist.

I’m not here to win any popularity contests. I genuinely care about less black people and less police officers dying in the streets. So I’m going to give it to you straight.


Black people in the United States are more likely to be victims of violent confrontations with police officers than whites because they commit more violent crimes than whites per capita.

– FACT: Despite making up just 13% of the population, blacks commit around half of homicides in the United States. DOJ statistics show that between 1980 and 2008, blacks committed 52% of homicides, compared to 45% of homicides committed by whites.

More up to date FBI statistics tell a similar story. In 2013, black criminals carried out 38% of murders, compared to 31.1% for whites, again despite the fact that there are five times more white people in the U.S.

– FACT: From 2011 to 2013, 38.5 per cent of people arrested for murder, manslaughter, rape, robbery, and aggravated assault were black. This figure is three times higher than the 13% black population figure. When you account for the fact that black males aged 15-34, who account for around 3% of the population, are responsible for the vast majority of these crimes, the figures are even more staggering.

– FACT: Despite the fact that black people commit an equal or greater number of violent crimes than whites, whites are almost TWICE as likely to be killed by police officers.

According to data from the Centers for Disease Control, between 1999 and 2011, 2,151 whites died as a result of being shot by police compared to 1,130 blacks.

Critics argue that black people are overrepresented in these figures because they only represent 13% of the population, but they are underrepresented if you factor in violent crime offenders. In other words, you would expect the number of blacks and whites killed by police to be roughly equal given that they commit a roughly equal number of violent crimes, but that’s not the case. Whites are nearly 100% more likely to be victims.

And what about black on white violence in general?

– FACT: Despite being outnumbered by whites five to one, blacks commit eight times more crimes against whites than vice-versa, according to FBI statistics from 2007. A black male is 40 times as likely to assault a white person as the reverse. These figures also show that interracial rape is almost exclusively black on white.

“Even allowing for the existence of discrimination in the criminal justice system, the higher rates of crime among black Americans cannot be denied,” wrote James Q. Wilson and Richard Herrnstein in their widely cited 1985 study, “Crime and Human Nature.” “Every study of crime using official data shows blacks to be overrepresented among persons arrested, convicted, and imprisoned for street crimes.”

It’s clear that the greater propensity for black people to commit violent crimes is a driving factor as to why blacks are becoming involved in more violent confrontations with police than their 13% population figure suggests they should be. If the 911 calls are coming from black areas and are related to black people committing violent crimes, then of course black people are more likely to be involved in violent confrontations with cops.

Does that justify police brutality in cases such as Freddie Gray, Walter Scott or Eric Garner? No. But it does demolish the ‘Black Lives Matter’ narrative that the general trend of black people being victims of violent encounters with police is solely down to the fact that cops are racist towards black people. Racism is a factor, but the statistics clearly show that it’s by no means the only factor, and some would argue not even the dominant factor.

But aren’t all these statistics undermined by the fact that black people are unfairly targeted and framed for crimes by police officers in the first place? Don’t higher arrest and conviction rates of blacks merely prove that police are racist? This argument is debunked by looking at the proportion of offenders identified – not by police – but by victims – as black. The National Crime Victimization Survey shows that the number of blacks arrested generally correlates with the number of offenders identified as black by victims.

Studies suggest that the reasons behind blacks being more likely to commit violent crimes are the dual issues of poverty (which exacerbates family breakdown) and a sub-culture amongst the black community that is tolerant of and glamorizes crime and violence. In the aftermath of the Ferguson and Baltimore riots, we saw the white metropolitan liberal media further legitimize this violence by openly justifying and even endorsing violent unrest that targeted mainly black-owned businesses.

This is true racism – by encouraging blacks to loot and riot, the white liberal media is helping to keep black communities in a cycle of destructive behavior that will lead to more police brutality targeted against black people.

Police brutality is a huge problem within the United States, and anyone that denies that fact is a part of the problem. But until we acknowledge and address the equally important issue of violent criminality within the black community, and until that becomes part of the national conversation, the issue is never going to be resolved.

And by failing to make these facts part of the conversation, black political leaders, protest organizers, and the white liberal media is complicit in perpetuating the chain reaction of violence that makes more police brutality against black people an inevitable outcome.

Black Crime Facts That The White Liberal Media Daren’t Talk About

 

[Mac1958]

Full disclosure: I have already whipped out the abacus to keep track of how many times it will be said or inferred I am a racist for daring to ask such a CRAZY question...

Let's look at the police shootings of Black Americans over the last five to eight years, particularly those that made national news and/or inspired protests.

What percentage of those shootings would have happened if the guy had simply, immediately and fully followed police orders, like you and I would have? If they had not resisted arrest to some degree?

Addressing this issue should be done with as much care as addressing the issue of bad cops, no?
.

Very true but consider the boy in Cleveland shot immediately for playing with a bb gu? Is that how the cops should have handled that?

And the man sitting on the ground with his hands up with his retarded patient and the cop shot him in the butt. Perfect example that somethings wrong

Absolutely, something is definitely wrong on both sides. And nothing is improved unless and until both sides admit that and address their problems honestly.
.

 

[Mac1958]

There are certain facts that people like Joe will simply ignore.

He lives in a very binary world - it's all your fault, every last bit of it, don't look at me. Don't give an inch, attack, attack, attack. And then attack some more. Facts contrary to their opinion are ignored.

These people exist on both ends of the spectrum.

These are the people who need to somehow be culturally marginalized before any real healing can begin. As long as they're considered a serious part of the conversation, we're going nowhere.
.

 

[JoeB131]

There are certain facts that people like Joe will simply ignore.

You think Alex Jones is a source of "Facts".. that's adorable!!!!

 

[JoeB131]

He lives in a very binary world - it's all your fault, every last bit of it, don't look at me. Don't give an inch, attack, attack, attack. And then attack some more. Facts contrary to their opinion are ignored.

Except you don't present facts, you present white resentment.

There is no excuse for what occurred with Tamir Rice. Yet you wingnuts will defend it to your dying breathe.

A 12 year old child was gunned down in less than a second by a police officer who had been fired by another police department for a mental breakdown on a firing range. Yet, the City of Cleveland put him out on the streets, with a partner who had beaten a woman so badly she required hospitalization.

I cite specific cases... but you whine about the supposed PC Police who you think are hiding under you bed. "OOOOOh, a Comedian couldn't tell a racist joke! We're being oppressed, I tell you."

 

[JoeB131]

Absolutely, something is definitely wrong on both sides. And nothing is improved unless and until both sides admit that and address their problems honestly.

are you admiting that there is another side that thinks blacks should be hunted down by the police? I'm not willing to give that side an inch.

 

[BULLDOG]

Full disclosure: I have already whipped out the abacus to keep track of how many times it will be said or inferred I am a racist for daring to ask such a CRAZY question...

Let's look at the police shootings of Black Americans over the last five to eight years, particularly those that made national news and/or inspired protests.

What percentage of those shootings would have happened if the guy had simply, immediately and fully followed police orders, like you and I would have? If they had not resisted arrest to some degree?

Addressing this issue should be done with as much care as addressing the issue of bad cops, no?
.

2 seconds is not enough time to follow any orders

And your vote is...?
.

What about the cops shooting that kid in Cleveland? Sure he shouldn't have been waving around a gun but who agrees with the cop who just got out and shot him dead?

Yes he should have been waving it around. It was a toy. That toy was made for kids to play with, and waving it around is the way kids play with toy guns.

 

[Mac1958]

He lives in a very binary world - it's all your fault, every last bit of it, don't look at me. Don't give an inch, attack, attack, attack. And then attack some more. Facts contrary to their opinion are ignored.

Except you don't present facts, you present white resentment.

There is no excuse for what occurred with Tamir Rice. Yet you wingnuts will defend it to your dying breathe.

A 12 year old child was gunned down in less than a second by a police officer who had been fired by another police department for a mental breakdown on a firing range. Yet, the City of Cleveland put him out on the streets, with a partner who had beaten a woman so badly she required hospitalization.

I cite specific cases... but you whine about the supposed PC Police who you think are hiding under you bed. "OOOOOh, a Comedian couldn't tell a racist joke! We're being oppressed, I tell you."

Which does nothing to refute my point. You're binary.

You are what you are. I can see both sides.
.

 

[The Sage of Main Street]

NYPD resisting-arrest charges more often filed against blacks

do blacks find themselves on the wrong end of he law more often than other groups?
do blacks tend to have an attitude while resisting arrest that might explain these numbers?
In other words, if the blacks had less criminals in their group, would the numbers shift to reflect that.

I think you mean some blacks.

Good thing that police are trained to spot the " bad" ones.

yes I do mean some. But as a racial group there does seem to be a higher percentage of those that end up in trouble than with other racial groups.

What percent is that?
That's an important question.
If that percentage is small, then that burden is carried by all for no other reason than implicit bias.

It's important to understand this concept and it's important to understand that this is the core premise of BLM.

NYPD resisting-arrest charges more often filed against blacks

do blacks find themselves on the wrong end of he law more often than other groups?
do blacks tend to have an attitude while resisting arrest that might explain these numbers?
In other words, if the blacks had less criminals in their group, would the numbers shift to reflect that.

I think you mean some blacks.

Good thing that police are trained to spot the " bad" ones.

yes I do mean some. But as a racial group there does seem to be a higher percentage of those that end up in trouble than with other racial groups.

It's important to understand this concept and it's important to understand that this is the core premise of BLM.

Simian, Not Sapiens

Only a rational species can construct a premise. Allowing that herd to enter a discussion will only lead to confusion.

 

[sealybobo]

Full disclosure: I have already whipped out the abacus to keep track of how many times it will be said or inferred I am a racist for daring to ask such a CRAZY question...

Let's look at the police shootings of Black Americans over the last five to eight years, particularly those that made national news and/or inspired protests.

What percentage of those shootings would have happened if the guy had simply, immediately and fully followed police orders, like you and I would have? If they had not resisted arrest to some degree?

Addressing this issue should be done with as much care as addressing the issue of bad cops, no?
.

Very true but consider the boy in Cleveland shot immediately for playing with a bb gu? Is that how the cops should have handled that?

And the man sitting on the ground with his hands up with his retarded patient and the cop shot him in the butt. Perfect example that somethings wrong

Absolutely, something is definitely wrong on both sides. And nothing is improved unless and until both sides admit that and address their problems honestly.
.

For sure the black community needs to acknowledge that cops in their community are dealing with the lowest of the low.

But what did this guy do wrong?

 

[Mac1958]

Full disclosure: I have already whipped out the abacus to keep track of how many times it will be said or inferred I am a racist for daring to ask such a CRAZY question...

Let's look at the police shootings of Black Americans over the last five to eight years, particularly those that made national news and/or inspired protests.

What percentage of those shootings would have happened if the guy had simply, immediately and fully followed police orders, like you and I would have? If they had not resisted arrest to some degree?

Addressing this issue should be done with as much care as addressing the issue of bad cops, no?
.

Very true but consider the boy in Cleveland shot immediately for playing with a bb gu? Is that how the cops should have handled that?

And the man sitting on the ground with his hands up with his retarded patient and the cop shot him in the butt. Perfect example that somethings wrong

Absolutely, something is definitely wrong on both sides. And nothing is improved unless and until both sides admit that and address their problems honestly.
.

For sure the black community needs to acknowledge that cops in their community are dealing with the lowest of the low.

But what did this guy do wrong?

He did nothing wrong, I saw the video.
.

 

[Jarlaxle]

So you must be the one person who voted "100% - The cops would have found an excuse to kill them anyway".

I absolutely believe that you absolutely believe that.

Who cares what you believe, Termite.

The problem is - cops shoot black people at a much greater frequency than they shoot white people. THis is an established fact.

There are certain facts that people like Joe will simply ignore.

Until the following facts become part of the conversation, we’re never going to see a real reduction in the number of violent confrontations involving black people and police officers. But the mainstream media, political leaders and white people in general are afraid to even mention these facts for fear of being labeled racist.

I’m not here to win any popularity contests. I genuinely care about less black people and less police officers dying in the streets. So I’m going to give it to you straight.


Black people in the United States are more likely to be victims of violent confrontations with police officers than whites because they commit more violent crimes than whites per capita.

– FACT: Despite making up just 13% of the population, blacks commit around half of homicides in the United States. DOJ statistics show that between 1980 and 2008, blacks committed 52% of homicides, compared to 45% of homicides committed by whites.

More up to date FBI statistics tell a similar story. In 2013, black criminals carried out 38% of murders, compared to 31.1% for whites, again despite the fact that there are five times more white people in the U.S.

– FACT: From 2011 to 2013, 38.5 per cent of people arrested for murder, manslaughter, rape, robbery, and aggravated assault were black. This figure is three times higher than the 13% black population figure. When you account for the fact that black males aged 15-34, who account for around 3% of the population, are responsible for the vast majority of these crimes, the figures are even more staggering.

– FACT: Despite the fact that black people commit an equal or greater number of violent crimes than whites, whites are almost TWICE as likely to be killed by police officers.

According to data from the Centers for Disease Control, between 1999 and 2011, 2,151 whites died as a result of being shot by police compared to 1,130 blacks.

Critics argue that black people are overrepresented in these figures because they only represent 13% of the population, but they are underrepresented if you factor in violent crime offenders. In other words, you would expect the number of blacks and whites killed by police to be roughly equal given that they commit a roughly equal number of violent crimes, but that’s not the case. Whites are nearly 100% more likely to be victims.

And what about black on white violence in general?

– FACT: Despite being outnumbered by whites five to one, blacks commit eight times more crimes against whites than vice-versa, according to FBI statistics from 2007. A black male is 40 times as likely to assault a white person as the reverse. These figures also show that interracial rape is almost exclusively black on white.

“Even allowing for the existence of discrimination in the criminal justice system, the higher rates of crime among black Americans cannot be denied,” wrote James Q. Wilson and Richard Herrnstein in their widely cited 1985 study, “Crime and Human Nature.” “Every study of crime using official data shows blacks to be overrepresented among persons arrested, convicted, and imprisoned for street crimes.”

It’s clear that the greater propensity for black people to commit violent crimes is a driving factor as to why blacks are becoming involved in more violent confrontations with police than their 13% population figure suggests they should be. If the 911 calls are coming from black areas and are related to black people committing violent crimes, then of course black people are more likely to be involved in violent confrontations with cops.

Does that justify police brutality in cases such as Freddie Gray, Walter Scott or Eric Garner? No. But it does demolish the ‘Black Lives Matter’ narrative that the general trend of black people being victims of violent encounters with police is solely down to the fact that cops are racist towards black people. Racism is a factor, but the statistics clearly show that it’s by no means the only factor, and some would argue not even the dominant factor.

But aren’t all these statistics undermined by the fact that black people are unfairly targeted and framed for crimes by police officers in the first place? Don’t higher arrest and conviction rates of blacks merely prove that police are racist? This argument is debunked by looking at the proportion of offenders identified – not by police – but by victims – as black. The National Crime Victimization Survey shows that the number of blacks arrested generally correlates with the number of offenders identified as black by victims.

Studies suggest that the reasons behind blacks being more likely to commit violent crimes are the dual issues of poverty (which exacerbates family breakdown) and a sub-culture amongst the black community that is tolerant of and glamorizes crime and violence. In the aftermath of the Ferguson and Baltimore riots, we saw the white metropolitan liberal media further legitimize this violence by openly justifying and even endorsing violent unrest that targeted mainly black-owned businesses.

This is true racism – by encouraging blacks to loot and riot, the white liberal media is helping to keep black communities in a cycle of destructive behavior that will lead to more police brutality targeted against black people.

Police brutality is a huge problem within the United States, and anyone that denies that fact is a part of the problem. But until we acknowledge and address the equally important issue of violent criminality within the black community, and until that becomes part of the national conversation, the issue is never going to be resolved.

And by failing to make these facts part of the conversation, black political leaders, protest organizers, and the white liberal media is complicit in perpetuating the chain reaction of violence that makes more police brutality against black people an inevitable outcome.

Black Crime Facts That The White Liberal Media Daren’t Talk About

Joey and the badge bunnies here are two sides of the same coin.

 

[DigitalDrifter]

There are certain facts that people like Joe will simply ignore.

You think Alex Jones is a source of "Facts".. that's adorable!!!!

When you're ready to acknowledge that blacks are more likely to be involved in violent crime, we'll talk. Until then, you're simply a waste of everyone's time.

 

[JoeB131]

When you're ready to acknowledge that blacks are more likely to be involved in violent crime, we'll talk. Until then, you're simply a waste of everyone's time.

No, man, you are so cute when you repeat the crazy Alt-Right to rationalize your racism... its soooo cute.

 

[DigitalDrifter]

When you're ready to acknowledge that blacks are more likely to be involved in violent crime, we'll talk. Until then, you're simply a waste of everyone's time.

No, man, you are so cute when you repeat the crazy Alt-Right to rationalize your racism... its soooo cute.

Lousy deflection Joe.

 

[Mac1958]

When you're ready to acknowledge that blacks are more likely to be involved in violent crime, we'll talk. Until then, you're simply a waste of everyone's time.

No, man, you are so cute when you repeat the crazy Alt-Right to rationalize your racism... its soooo cute.

Lousy deflection Joe.

When backed into a corner, he screams racism.

Even when the topic is not even remotely about race, which can get pretty funny.
.

 

[DigitalDrifter]

When you're ready to acknowledge that blacks are more likely to be involved in violent crime, we'll talk. Until then, you're simply a waste of everyone's time.

No, man, you are so cute when you repeat the crazy Alt-Right to rationalize your racism... its soooo cute.

Lousy deflection Joe.

When backed into a corner, he screams racism.

Even when the topic is not remotely about race, which can get pretty funny.
.

Joe will ignore reality.

FactCheck: do black Americans commit more crime?

The verdict

There is evidence in the official police-recorded figures that black Americans are more likely to commit certain types of crime than people of other races.

While it would be naïve to suggest that there is no racism in the US criminal justice system, victim reports don’t support the idea that this is because of mass discrimination.

Higher poverty rates among various urban black communities might explain the difference in crime rates, although the evidence is mixed.

There are few simple answers and links between crime and race are likely to remain the subject of bitter argument.

 

[JoeB131]

When backed into a corner, he screams racism.

Even when the topic is not even remotely about race, which can get pretty funny.

When a Nazi screams that the police shoot more black people because they commit more crimes... then it's kind of hard not to scream racism.

Oh, the topic was about police shooting people...

So here's your homework. Find the White Tamir Rice.

Find a Billy Smith who was shot for playing with a toy.

 

[Mac1958]

When backed into a corner, he screams racism.

Even when the topic is not even remotely about race, which can get pretty funny.

When a Nazi screams that the police shoot more black people because they commit more crimes... then it's kind of hard not to scream racism.

Oh, the topic was about police shooting people...

So here's your homework. Find the White Tamir Rice.

Find a Billy Smith who was shot for playing with a toy.

Which, as usual, has nothing to do with my post.

Love ya, Joe!
.

 

[JoeB131]

Which, as usual, has nothing to do with my post.

Love ya, Joe!
.

Actually, it does.

The premise of your post is police are just doing their jobs, and if those uppity black people just listened to what the police told them to do (because we all should enjoy living in a police state), the Police wouldn't feel the need to shoot them for such dire offenses as "not putting out your cigarette" and "Playing with a toy".

So you should be easily able to find a white child who was playing with a toy and was shot by police.

Now, for those who aren't trying to pretend they are holier than thou... we have this.

America’s lethal Negrophobia: More than just the Charlotte police killed Keith Lamont Scott

There are many recent examples of this lethal double standard along the color line.

A white man, Gregory Rose, was wanted by police for murder and arson in Michigan. He led police on a chase and rammed them with his stolen car. He was arrested and not shot.

A white man, Brian Fitch, shot and killed a St. Paul, Minnesota, police officer. He also shot at other police. Fitch was wounded by police and taken into custody alive.

A white man and Donald Trump supporter, Austin Harrouff, killed two of his neighbors in Florida. He then attacked a third person and began eating his face. Still. the police did everything they could to avoid shooting him. Harrouff was eventually taken into custody alive.

A white man, Joseph Houseman, had a rifle and threatened to shoot police and their families in Michigan. The police negotiated with him for at least 40 minutes. He was not arrested. The police determined that he was intoxicated and confiscated his weapon. Houseman was allowed to claim his rifle the next day at the police station.

A