POLL: The GOP and "Socialism"

[Mac1958]

Our conservative posters continue to start thread after thread pertaining to "socialism". And even though their exact definitions are fairly unclear, it's obvious they think that screaming SOCIALISM is, by itself, enough to win a debate.

As most of us can see, more and more people are becoming perfectly comfortable with the word - in part, no doubt, because the Right has completely over-used and diluted it.

How long before the Right realizes the term "socialism" no longer scares people?
.

So based upon the responses, it is the Left who don’t understand socialism and what it is. Which is why they think they love it.

Okay, what is it? What is socialism? I thought it was government ownership & control of all means of production and distribution. Private property effectively doesn't exist. Examples would be Cuba and Venezuela.

Democratic socialism lies clearly and distinctly to the Right of socialism on the spectrum, with private ownership of most means of production and distribution, with the focus on a broader government safety net for the lower economic strata. Examples would be Canada, Norway, Finland, Sweden, Germany, France, Britain, Australia.

Two different things.

There's a couple of definitions for you. What's your definition?
.

 

[Tehon]

Our conservative posters continue to start thread after thread pertaining to "socialism". And even though their exact definitions are fairly unclear, it's obvious they think that screaming SOCIALISM is, by itself, enough to win a debate.

As most of us can see, more and more people are becoming perfectly comfortable with the word - in part, no doubt, because the Right has completely over-used and diluted it.

How long before the Right realizes the term "socialism" no longer scares people?
.

So based upon the responses, it is the Left who don’t understand socialism and what it is. Which is why they think they love it.

Okay, what is it?

I thought it was government ownership & control of all means of production and distribution.

What's your definition?
.

The means of production doesn't have to be owned and controlled by government in a socialist society. Marx himself said the less government the better. To any degree that it is dominated by government it is meant to be done democratically. As any conservative will tell you, we have a republican form of government, it is not truly democratic. So the notion that our current government could be a reliable structure in a socialist society is a bit of a stretch.

 

[Mac1958]

Our conservative posters continue to start thread after thread pertaining to "socialism". And even though their exact definitions are fairly unclear, it's obvious they think that screaming SOCIALISM is, by itself, enough to win a debate.

As most of us can see, more and more people are becoming perfectly comfortable with the word - in part, no doubt, because the Right has completely over-used and diluted it.

How long before the Right realizes the term "socialism" no longer scares people?
.

So based upon the responses, it is the Left who don’t understand socialism and what it is. Which is why they think they love it.

Okay, what is it?

I thought it was government ownership & control of all means of production and distribution.

What's your definition?
.

The means of production doesn't have to be owned and controlled by government in a socialist society. Marx himself said the less government the better. To any degree that it is dominated by government it is meant to be done democratically. As any conservative will tell you, we have a republican form of government, it is not truly democratic. So the notion that our current government could be a reliable structure in a socialist society is a bit of a stretch.

Well, I suspect you're more up on Marx than I. I'm not a fan.

Those are the definitions with which I'm familiar.
.

 

[Tehon]

Our conservative posters continue to start thread after thread pertaining to "socialism". And even though their exact definitions are fairly unclear, it's obvious they think that screaming SOCIALISM is, by itself, enough to win a debate.

As most of us can see, more and more people are becoming perfectly comfortable with the word - in part, no doubt, because the Right has completely over-used and diluted it.

How long before the Right realizes the term "socialism" no longer scares people?
.

So based upon the responses, it is the Left who don’t understand socialism and what it is. Which is why they think they love it.

Okay, what is it?

I thought it was government ownership & control of all means of production and distribution.

What's your definition?
.

The means of production doesn't have to be owned and controlled by government in a socialist society. Marx himself said the less government the better. To any degree that it is dominated by government it is meant to be done democratically. As any conservative will tell you, we have a republican form of government, it is not truly democratic. So the notion that our current government could be a reliable structure in a socialist society is a bit of a stretch.

Well, I suspect you're more up on Marx than I. I'm not a fan.

Those are the definitions with which I'm familiar.
.

I'm not discounting your definition, it is the most prevalent understanding of socialism to be found today. I just wanted to explain that the socialist idea is not strictly relegated to that definition. Your definition of socialism is no more appealing to me than it is conservatives.

 

[Tehon]

Our conservative posters continue to start thread after thread pertaining to "socialism". And even though their exact definitions are fairly unclear, it's obvious they think that screaming SOCIALISM is, by itself, enough to win a debate.

As most of us can see, more and more people are becoming perfectly comfortable with the word - in part, no doubt, because the Right has completely over-used and diluted it.

How long before the Right realizes the term "socialism" no longer scares people?
.

So based upon the responses, it is the Left who don’t understand socialism and what it is. Which is why they think they love it.

Okay, what is it?

I thought it was government ownership & control of all means of production and distribution.

What's your definition?
.

The means of production doesn't have to be owned and controlled by government in a socialist society. Marx himself said the less government the better. To any degree that it is dominated by government it is meant to be done democratically. As any conservative will tell you, we have a republican form of government, it is not truly democratic. So the notion that our current government could be a reliable structure in a socialist society is a bit of a stretch.

Well, I suspect you're more up on Marx than I. I'm not a fan.

Those are the definitions with which I'm familiar.
.

How long before people realize Marx isn't something to be feared?

Most of his work was on critiquing capital. It is through this understanding that we can see the best way to move civilization forward.

 

[Mac1958]

Our conservative posters continue to start thread after thread pertaining to "socialism". And even though their exact definitions are fairly unclear, it's obvious they think that screaming SOCIALISM is, by itself, enough to win a debate.

As most of us can see, more and more people are becoming perfectly comfortable with the word - in part, no doubt, because the Right has completely over-used and diluted it.

How long before the Right realizes the term "socialism" no longer scares people?
.

So based upon the responses, it is the Left who don’t understand socialism and what it is. Which is why they think they love it.

Okay, what is it?

I thought it was government ownership & control of all means of production and distribution.

What's your definition?
.

The means of production doesn't have to be owned and controlled by government in a socialist society. Marx himself said the less government the better. To any degree that it is dominated by government it is meant to be done democratically. As any conservative will tell you, we have a republican form of government, it is not truly democratic. So the notion that our current government could be a reliable structure in a socialist society is a bit of a stretch.

Well, I suspect you're more up on Marx than I. I'm not a fan.

Those are the definitions with which I'm familiar.
.

How long before people realize Marx isn't something to be feared?

Most of his work was on critiquing capital. It is through this understanding that we can see the best way to move civilization forward.

Great, thanks.
.

 

[JoeB131]

Great, thanks.

Stormy Mac's quest for conversation, until someone talks back to him.

 

[sparky]

conservative values fail just as fast as liberal values

the 3R's of conservatism are the Right to make choices, taking Responsibility for those choices, and living with the Results of those choices.

That they (conservatives) gave our the largest amount of socialism since WW2 after the '08 crash throws it ALL under the bus

Epic failure , end of the true capitist system , enter socalist doom .....

They've continued to insist the rich will work harded if we give them more, while the poor will work harder if we give them less, because they can't face up to that fact

~S~

 

[Mac1958]

conservative values fail just as fast as liberal values

the 3R's of conservatism are the Right to make choices, taking Responsibility for those choices, and living with the Results of those choices.

That they (conservatives) gave our the largest amount of socialism since WW2 after the '08 crash throws it ALL under the bus

Epic failure , end of the true capitist system , enter socalist doom .....

They've continued to insist the rich will work harded if we give them more, while the poor will work harder if we give them less, because they can't face up to that fact

~S~

Right now that end of the spectrum is intellectually paralyzed by libertarian thought. Over the last 30 years they've taken Reagan's "government is the problem" speech line and turned it into gospel. I think they've reached a point now where the ideological window is closed and they just don't care.

Meanwhile, almost comically, our deficit is exploding.
.

 

[Two Thumbs]

Our conservative posters continue to start thread after thread pertaining to "socialism". And even though their exact definitions are fairly unclear, it's obvious they think that screaming SOCIALISM is, by itself, enough to win a debate.

As most of us can see, more and more people are becoming perfectly comfortable with the word - in part, no doubt, because the Right has completely over-used and diluted it.

How long before the Right realizes the term "socialism" no longer scares people?
.

good question.

unfortunately there really isn't another word for basically what the dnc has become.

the progs hid behind the word 'liberal', they were open about it for 8 years, and then had a socialist run for Pres.


sadly, leftists don't care about the absolute horrors of socialism, they just want the power that comes with it.

 

[Mac1958]

Our conservative posters continue to start thread after thread pertaining to "socialism". And even though their exact definitions are fairly unclear, it's obvious they think that screaming SOCIALISM is, by itself, enough to win a debate.

As most of us can see, more and more people are becoming perfectly comfortable with the word - in part, no doubt, because the Right has completely over-used and diluted it.

How long before the Right realizes the term "socialism" no longer scares people?
.

good question.

unfortunately there really isn't another word for basically what the dnc has become.

the progs hid behind the word 'liberal', they were open about it for 8 years, and then had a socialist run for Pres.


sadly, leftists don't care about the absolute horrors of socialism, they just want the power that comes with it.

Again, I'm not sure what you mean by "socialism". Do you mean the real socialism of Cuba and Venezuela, or the democratic socialism of Canada, Germany, Sweden, Finland, Britain, France?

Or do you not recognize a difference?
.

 

[Two Thumbs]

Our conservative posters continue to start thread after thread pertaining to "socialism". And even though their exact definitions are fairly unclear, it's obvious they think that screaming SOCIALISM is, by itself, enough to win a debate.

As most of us can see, more and more people are becoming perfectly comfortable with the word - in part, no doubt, because the Right has completely over-used and diluted it.

How long before the Right realizes the term "socialism" no longer scares people?
.

good question.

unfortunately there really isn't another word for basically what the dnc has become.

the progs hid behind the word 'liberal', they were open about it for 8 years, and then had a socialist run for Pres.


sadly, leftists don't care about the absolute horrors of socialism, they just want the power that comes with it.

Again, I'm not sure what you mean by "socialism". Do you mean the real socialism of Cuba and Venezuela, or the democratic socialism of Canada, Germany, Sweden, Finland, Britain, France?

Or do you not recognize a difference?
.

yes, I'm aware of the different 'brands' of socialism

In the eu Germany tells each member what it can export, how much it can export and what they will charge for it, they also tell them the same for imports. A polite tyranny if you like.

finland has massive oil exports, when those dry up, well, Ven comes to mind.


'democratic' socialism is just one bad run away from being real socialism or communism.


and cuba is a communist nation

 

[Mac1958]

yes, I'm aware of the different 'brands' of socialism

Thanks, that's good to know. Nice to see that someone understands this stuff exists on a continuum.
.

 

[Weatherman2020]

Our conservative posters continue to start thread after thread pertaining to "socialism". And even though their exact definitions are fairly unclear, it's obvious they think that screaming SOCIALISM is, by itself, enough to win a debate.

As most of us can see, more and more people are becoming perfectly comfortable with the word - in part, no doubt, because the Right has completely over-used and diluted it.

How long before the Right realizes the term "socialism" no longer scares people?
.

So based upon the responses, it is the Left who don’t understand socialism and what it is. Which is why they think they love it.

Okay, what is it? What is socialism? I thought it was government ownership & control of all means of production and distribution. Private property effectively doesn't exist. Examples would be Cuba and Venezuela.

Democratic socialism lies clearly and distinctly to the Right of socialism on the spectrum, with private ownership of most means of production and distribution, with the focus on a broader government safety net for the lower economic strata. Examples would be Canada, Norway, Finland, Sweden, Germany, France, Britain, Australia.

Two different things.

There's a couple of definitions for you. What's your definition?
.

Your error is that there is no effort to create a "safety net". A safety net allows people to get back on their feet after a catastrophic event. What the left have going is designed to keep people under the thumb of Big Brother so Big Brother can control their lives.

 

[Mac1958]

Our conservative posters continue to start thread after thread pertaining to "socialism". And even though their exact definitions are fairly unclear, it's obvious they think that screaming SOCIALISM is, by itself, enough to win a debate.

As most of us can see, more and more people are becoming perfectly comfortable with the word - in part, no doubt, because the Right has completely over-used and diluted it.

How long before the Right realizes the term "socialism" no longer scares people?
.

So based upon the responses, it is the Left who don’t understand socialism and what it is. Which is why they think they love it.

Okay, what is it? What is socialism? I thought it was government ownership & control of all means of production and distribution. Private property effectively doesn't exist. Examples would be Cuba and Venezuela.

Democratic socialism lies clearly and distinctly to the Right of socialism on the spectrum, with private ownership of most means of production and distribution, with the focus on a broader government safety net for the lower economic strata. Examples would be Canada, Norway, Finland, Sweden, Germany, France, Britain, Australia.

Two different things.

There's a couple of definitions for you. What's your definition?
.

Your error is that there is no effort to create a "safety net". A safety net allows people to get back on their feet after a catastrophic event. What the left have going is designed to keep people under the thumb of Big Brother so Big Brother can control their lives.

Again, we go back to definitions.

The point remains the same: This exists on a continuum, and some countries are far "more socialist" than others, yet many don't see that.
.

 

[EverCurious]

Hell if we're going to decide that stealing is alright, then I vote we just steal all the money from European's for American's instead... I'd suggest a country we didn't like, but the argument is basically that friends help friends out by paying for everything we want right?

 

[Weatherman2020]

Our conservative posters continue to start thread after thread pertaining to "socialism". And even though their exact definitions are fairly unclear, it's obvious they think that screaming SOCIALISM is, by itself, enough to win a debate.

As most of us can see, more and more people are becoming perfectly comfortable with the word - in part, no doubt, because the Right has completely over-used and diluted it.

How long before the Right realizes the term "socialism" no longer scares people?
.

So based upon the responses, it is the Left who don’t understand socialism and what it is. Which is why they think they love it.

Okay, what is it? What is socialism? I thought it was government ownership & control of all means of production and distribution. Private property effectively doesn't exist. Examples would be Cuba and Venezuela.

Democratic socialism lies clearly and distinctly to the Right of socialism on the spectrum, with private ownership of most means of production and distribution, with the focus on a broader government safety net for the lower economic strata. Examples would be Canada, Norway, Finland, Sweden, Germany, France, Britain, Australia.

Two different things.

There's a couple of definitions for you. What's your definition?
.

Your error is that there is no effort to create a "safety net". A safety net allows people to get back on their feet after a catastrophic event. What the left have going is designed to keep people under the thumb of Big Brother so Big Brother can control their lives.

Again, we go back to definitions.

The point remains the same: This exists on a continuum, and some countries are far "more socialist" than others, yet many don't see that.
.

Let's put it into broader terms then.

One side wants a huge government controlling everything past the point of prison for handing out a straw, the other side wants small limited government that should build roads and protect our borders but stay out of our lives.

 

[Mac1958]

One side wants a huge government controlling everything past the point of prison for handing out a straw, the other side wants small limited government that should build roads and protect our borders but stay out of our lives.

No, I think there's a huge, dynamic, varying territory in between those two "sides".
.

 

[Weatherman2020]

One side wants a huge government controlling everything past the point of prison for handing out a straw, the other side wants small limited government that should build roads and protect our borders but stay out of our lives.

No, I think there's a huge, dynamic, varying territory in between those two "sides".
.

You're talking hypothetical, I'm talking real world. Fines and prison for straws and large sodas versus a small limited government. If I want to buy a 16 cylinder car, I should be allowed to. But the government controls their production so I can't.

 

[Mac1958]

One side wants a huge government controlling everything past the point of prison for handing out a straw, the other side wants small limited government that should build roads and protect our borders but stay out of our lives.

No, I think there's a huge, dynamic, varying territory in between those two "sides".
.

You're talking hypothetical, I'm talking real world. Fines and prison for straws and large sodas versus a small limited government. If I want to buy a 16 cylinder car, I should be allowed to. But the government controls their production so I can't.

No, I'm talking real world. "Small, limited" is hypothetical. And that's sure as hell not what we have, even with the GOP in control.

There are many Americans whose opinions aren't confined to a small, tight ideology. Life is complicated, many parts of it exist on a continuum, and most of us know that.
.