Pope Cozies up to muslims.

[dilloduck]

Trust me, that will happen, perhaps, AFTER EU is under Sharia.

We probably won't be able to help them because it will be illegal or something.

 

[Annie]

We probably won't be able to help them because it will be illegal or something.

I'm uncertain we have the will to help ourselves, much less those that haven't any parameters today. They may well be happy under Sharia, who knows?

 

[glockmail]

I'm uncertain we have the will to help ourselves, much less those that haven't any parameters today. They may well be happy under Sharia, who knows?

I can't help thinking about the percentage of Europeans that agree with American ideals of freedom, among them perhaps my distant and unknown realtives in Ireland, Germany, Austria, UK, Poland, and Lithuania, who perhaps think more like I do. Perhaps the "final Solution" would be to trade all our US liberal for these like-minded people, then let Europe decay into Isalm.

 

[glockmail]

Remember, the last time a pope went to Turkey, he got shot.

No I didn't remember that- thanks. But still, why is that a sell out? Or is this wishful thinking by RWA?

 

[Annie]

Check out what the pope was saying today:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20061128/ap_on_re_mi_ea/pope_turkey

...Later, in a meeting with diplomats, Benedict sharpened his tone.

He urged that all religious leaders "utterly refuse to sanction recourse to violence as a legitimate expression of religion." But he expressed worry that the risks of more conflicts and terrorism were growing in the Middle East and elsewhere.

Benedict said "recent developments in terrorism and in certain regional conflicts" highlight the need for strong and effective international efforts, including peacekeeping forces in violence-wracked places such as Lebanon.

But he noted that the "disturbing" conflicts across the Middle East show "no sign of abating and weighs heavily on the whole of international life."

"I am thinking of the risk of peripheral conflicts multiplying and terrorist actions spreading," the pontiff added, but did not cite specific locations or groups....

and whatwas the reason for the trip:

http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/Printable.asp?ID=25682

Pope Rage in Istanbul
By Robert Spencer
FrontPageMagazine.com | November 28, 2006

Pope Benedict XVI is set to arrive in Turkey on Tuesday, and tensions are running high. Mehmet Ali Agca, the Turk who shot Pope John Paul II in 1981, wrote to Benedict: “Your life is in danger. You absolutely must not come to Turkey.” And several weeks ago, a Turk named Ibrahim Ak stood outside Italy’s consulate in Istanbul and fired a gun while proclaiming his desire to strangle the pope. As he was arrested, Ak shouted: “I am happy to be a Muslim!” He said that he hoped the Pope would decide not to come to Turkey, and that his actions would inspire other Turks to violence: “God willing, this will be a spark, a starter for Muslims ... God willing, he will not come. If he comes, he will see what will happen to him.”

Turkish officials are trying to make sure nothing does. According to the Associated Press, they have “mobilized an army of snipers, bomb disposal experts and riot police, as well as navy commandos to patrol the Bosporus Straits flowing through Istanbul.” However, Meliha Benli Altunisik, a professor at the Middle East Technical University in Ankara, questioned whether such precautions were necessary at all: “Will there be protests? Yes, of course. But I cannot take seriously the notion that he is in physical danger. He will rather be ignored.”



Certainly Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan originally planned to ignore him. Erdogan will be attending a NATO summit in Latvia on the first two days of the Pope’s visit and at first announced that he would not meet with him during the last two days, either. “You can't expect me to arrange my timetable according to the pope,” Erdogan huffed, and of course he’s right: how could anyone expect him to rearrange his busy schedule to meet with someone so unimportant as the Pope? (However, on Monday he did finally change his plans and agreed to meet with Benedict.)



The real reason why Erdogan did not want to meet the Pope, of course, is the same reason why security is so tight: Turks are enraged over the Pope’s speech at the University of Regensburg on September 12, 2006, in which he quoted the fourteenth century Byzantine Emperor Manuel II Paleologos: “Show me just what Mohammed brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached.” There were riots all over the Islamic world over these remarks in September, and several Christians were murdered in Iraq and Somalia. In Turkey, tempers haven’t cooled. Turkish politician Salih Kapusuz said: “The owner of those unfortunate and arrogant comments, Benedict XVI, has gone down in history, but in the same category as Hitler and Mussolini....It looks like an effort to revive the mentality of the Crusades.” The Crusades were on Al-Qaeda leader Ayman Al-Zawahri’s mind also: he likened Benedict to Pope Urban II, who called the First Crusade in 1095.



Unfortunately, the danger of and anger over the Pope’s visit to Turkey has overshadowed both the real focus of the visit, and what should be its major preoccupation. The main purpose of the Pope’s trip is to meet with the Ecumenical Patriarch Bartholomew, spiritual leader of the Orthodox Church. One may hope also that the Pope will take an opportunity to shed some light upon the woeful condition of religious minorities, principally Christians, in what is nominally a secular state that allows for religious freedom. Two converts from Islam to Christianity, Hakan Tastan and Turan Topal, are currently on trial on charges of “insulting ‘Turkishness’” and inciting hatred of Islam. What seems to be behind the charges is that Tastan and Topal were proselytizing – which, while not officially illegal, is frowned upon and has sometimes resulted in beatings of Christians trying to hand out religious literature. On November 4, a Protestant church in western Turkey was firebombed, after months of harassment that was ignored by Turkish authorities. The murderer of a Catholic priest, Fr. Andrea Santoro, last February in the Turkish city of Trabzon was recently sentenced to only eighteen years in prison. (The killer shouted “Allahu akbar!” as he fired shots at the priest.)



All this bespeaks a Turkish officialdom that is hostile – at best – to non-Muslim forms of religious expression, Turkey’s guarantees of religious freedom be damned. The institutionalized subjugation and second-class status of religious minorities under the Ottoman Empire was bad enough, but Turkish secularism has been, if anything, even worse. Constantinople was 50% Christian as recently as 1914 (its name was changed to Istanbul in 1930); today, it is less than one percent Christian. The Catholic Church has no legal recognition; Catholic churches, like other churches, remain inconspicuous so as not to draw the angry attention of mujahedin. Even the recognized Churches are not allowed to operated seminaries or build new houses of worship – in accord with ancient Islamic Sharia restrictions on non-Muslims in an Islamic state, which restrictions paradoxically enough still have at least some force in secular Turkey.



The righteous fury with which the Pope will likely be greeted in Turkey will shift attention from the shame Turkish authorities should feel over the mistreatment of Christians in their land that nominally allows for religious freedom. The mainstream media will focus on protests against the Pope, and pay scant attention to anything he may say, if he says anything at all, about the oppression of Christians in Turkey. And that, in the final analysis, may lead the Turkish government – for all its security precautions -- to hope that the protestors will turn out in force.

 

[Avatar4321]

I hate saying it, but with this hatred for the Pope, i wouldn't be surprised if he was shot during this trip... I hope not. He is a good man despite what his critics say.

 

[Annie]

I hate saying it, but with this hatred for the Pope, i wouldn't be surprised if he was shot during this trip... I hope not. He is a good man despite what his critics say.

Brave too. As has been noted by most around here, he is the one leader trying to hold Muslim leaders responsible and calling them out when not.

Contrary to RWA's idiotic rants, the pope is there to speak with Orthodox Rights Bishop regarding the prejudice they are running into in Turkey. Not a friendly place right now. As I posted earlier, anyone remember what started the first Crusade?

Pope Rage in Istanbul
By Robert Spencer
FrontPageMagazine.com | November 28, 2006

Pope Benedict XVI is set to arrive in Turkey on Tuesday, and tensions are running high. Mehmet Ali Agca, the Turk who shot Pope John Paul II in 1981, wrote to Benedict: “Your life is in danger. You absolutely must not come to Turkey.” And several weeks ago, a Turk named Ibrahim Ak stood outside Italy’s consulate in Istanbul and fired a gun while proclaiming his desire to strangle the pope. As he was arrested, Ak shouted: “I am happy to be a Muslim!” He said that he hoped the Pope would decide not to come to Turkey, and that his actions would inspire other Turks to violence: “God willing, this will be a spark, a starter for Muslims ... God willing, he will not come. If he comes, he will see what will happen to him.”

Turkish officials are trying to make sure nothing does. According to the Associated Press, they have “mobilized an army of snipers, bomb disposal experts and riot police, as well as navy commandos to patrol the Bosporus Straits flowing through Istanbul.” However, Meliha Benli Altunisik, a professor at the Middle East Technical University in Ankara, questioned whether such precautions were necessary at all: “Will there be protests? Yes, of course. But I cannot take seriously the notion that he is in physical danger. He will rather be ignored.”



Certainly Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan originally planned to ignore him. Erdogan will be attending a NATO summit in Latvia on the first two days of the Pope’s visit and at first announced that he would not meet with him during the last two days, either. “You can't expect me to arrange my timetable according to the pope,” Erdogan huffed, and of course he’s right: how could anyone expect him to rearrange his busy schedule to meet with someone so unimportant as the Pope? (However, on Monday he did finally change his plans and agreed to meet with Benedict.)



The real reason why Erdogan did not want to meet the Pope, of course, is the same reason why security is so tight: Turks are enraged over the Pope’s speech at the University of Regensburg on September 12, 2006, in which he quoted the fourteenth century Byzantine Emperor Manuel II Paleologos: “Show me just what Mohammed brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached.” There were riots all over the Islamic world over these remarks in September, and several Christians were murdered in Iraq and Somalia. In Turkey, tempers haven’t cooled. Turkish politician Salih Kapusuz said: “The owner of those unfortunate and arrogant comments, Benedict XVI, has gone down in history, but in the same category as Hitler and Mussolini....It looks like an effort to revive the mentality of the Crusades.” The Crusades were on Al-Qaeda leader Ayman Al-Zawahri’s mind also: he likened Benedict to Pope Urban II, who called the First Crusade in 1095.



Unfortunately, the danger of and anger over the Pope’s visit to Turkey has overshadowed both the real focus of the visit, and what should be its major preoccupation. The main purpose of the Pope’s trip is to meet with the Ecumenical Patriarch Bartholomew, spiritual leader of the Orthodox Church. One may hope also that the Pope will take an opportunity to shed some light upon the woeful condition of religious minorities, principally Christians, in what is nominally a secular state that allows for religious freedom. Two converts from Islam to Christianity, Hakan Tastan and Turan Topal, are currently on trial on charges of “insulting ‘Turkishness’” and inciting hatred of Islam. What seems to be behind the charges is that Tastan and Topal were proselytizing – which, while not officially illegal, is frowned upon and has sometimes resulted in beatings of Christians trying to hand out religious literature. On November 4, a Protestant church in western Turkey was firebombed, after months of harassment that was ignored by Turkish authorities. The murderer of a Catholic priest, Fr. Andrea Santoro, last February in the Turkish city of Trabzon was recently sentenced to only eighteen years in prison. (The killer shouted “Allahu akbar!” as he fired shots at the priest.)



All this bespeaks a Turkish officialdom that is hostile – at best – to non-Muslim forms of religious expression, Turkey’s guarantees of religious freedom be damned. The institutionalized subjugation and second-class status of religious minorities under the Ottoman Empire was bad enough, but Turkish secularism has been, if anything, even worse. Constantinople was 50% Christian as recently as 1914 (its name was changed to Istanbul in 1930); today, it is less than one percent Christian. The Catholic Church has no legal recognition; Catholic churches, like other churches, remain inconspicuous so as not to draw the angry attention of mujahedin. Even the recognized Churches are not allowed to operated seminaries or build new houses of worship – in accord with ancient Islamic Sharia restrictions on non-Muslims in an Islamic state, which restrictions paradoxically enough still have at least some force in secular Turkey.



The righteous fury with which the Pope will likely be greeted in Turkey will shift attention from the shame Turkish authorities should feel over the mistreatment of Christians in their land that nominally allows for religious freedom. The mainstream media will focus on protests against the Pope, and pay scant attention to anything he may say, if he says anything at all, about the oppression of Christians in Turkey. And that, in the final analysis, may lead the Turkish government – for all its security precautions -- to hope that the protestors will turn out in force.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

Brave too. As has been noted by most around here, he is the one leader trying to hold Muslim leaders responsible and calling them out when not.

Contrary to RWA's idiotic rants, the pope is there to speak with Orthodox Rights Bishop regarding the prejudice they are running into in Turkey. Not a friendly place right now. As I posted earlier, anyone remember what started the first Crusade?

Oh, shut your ignorant yap, ya old crone.

 

[ScreamingEagle]

Wow. What a sellout.

"step right up, behold as the false prophet sells out jesus and proclaims respect for the murderous faith of islam".

I don't see the Pope's visit as a "sellout" or he being a "false prophet". I don't see him compromising his faith one iota. Reaching out for peace by seeking similarities is not being a "sellout".

The Pope already apologized for an insult he never really made. Yet they continue in their wrath, demanding even more. Why can't they accept his apology and forgive and forget? The Pope is only visiting Turkey in peace, seeking dialogue, and even supporting Turkey's wish to join the EU. Why does that make Muslims so fearful and spiteful about Chritianity's leader? What is it about a Pope seeking peace that angers Muslims of the supposed "religion of peace" to the point that some are protesting, their leaders are acting "put upon" to show hospitality, and some may even wish to kill him? I see the world (on all sides) watching all this and learning...

 

[Kagom]

Wow. What a sellout.

"step right up, behold as the false prophet sells out jesus and proclaims respect for the murderous faith of islam".

I think he's trying to get killed so he can fulfill some asinine prophecy supposedly revealed to by illiterate third world siblings.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

I think he's trying to get killed so he can fulfill some asinine prophecy supposedly revealed to by illiterate third world siblings.

No. Soon he's going to start spewing crap about the brotherhood of muslims and christians if only we would stop with all this pesky Jesus business, and agree to stop prostelytyzing and let islam take over like good little dhimmis.

 

[glockmail]

No. Soon he's going to start spewing crap about the brotherhood of muslims and christians if only we would stop with all this pesky Jesus business, and agree to stop prostelytyzing and let islam take over like good little dhimmis.

Nice theory on which you obviously know nothing. I'm still waiting to see how you justify your irrational statements of post 1.

 

[Kagom]

No. Soon he's going to start spewing crap about the brotherhood of muslims and christians if only we would stop with all this pesky Jesus business, and agree to stop prostelytyzing and let islam take over like good little dhimmis.

Sorry, but I don't buy that for one minute.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

Nice theory on which you obviously know nothing. I'm still waiting to see how you justify your irrational statements of post 1.

You sound like all the adults in a peanuts cartoon, a series of low-toned muted trumpet blasts, resembling speech, yet incoherent.

 

[Avatar4321]

I think he's trying to get killed so he can fulfill some asinine prophecy supposedly revealed to by illiterate third world siblings.

If he is, it might come true. I know he isnt using his normal bullit proof pope mobile.

 

[glockmail]

You sound like all the adults in a peanuts cartoon, a series of low-toned muted trumpet blasts, resembling speech, yet incoherent.

Incoherent to the ignorant, yes. But I'm still waiting for you to provide even a tiny semblance of justification to your statements in post 1.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

Sorry, but I don't buy that for one minute.

Well I guess that settles it then. If you don't buy it, I guess I'd better rethink everything. Thanks for setting me straight, little buddy. Really. Thanks, I needed that. I feel so refreshed now that you've freed my from my paranoid conspiracies.

 

[Avatar4321]

No. Soon he's going to start spewing crap about the brotherhood of muslims and christians if only we would stop with all this pesky Jesus business, and agree to stop prostelytyzing and let islam take over like good little dhimmis.

That isnt going to happen. if it did the Catholic Church would be through.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

Incoherent to the ignorant, yes. But I'm still waiting for you to provide even a tiny semblance of justification to your statements in post 1.

Many interpretations of revelations say there will be a religious leader who will mislead christians into some new global religion, and away from christ, he is the false prophet. Have you heard about this?

 

[rtwngAvngr]

That isnt going to happen. if it did the Catholic Church would be through.

Would it? The catholic church has recently taught that jews don't need jesus anymore and it's wrong to prostelytyze to them. Is that proper church doctrine?