Powers of pardon need to be restricted.

[martybegan]

An internal check, not an external check.

still a check ...it doesn't need an outside check---
the government has the outside checks .....
...plus the Senate/House/community alderman/cities/etc pass and enable/etc the laws..... that's an outside check

The whole purpose of "checks and balances" is that each branch can override the other in certain situations.

The power of pardon is a check on both the judiciaries and the legislatures of not just the federal government, but the State governments as well.

I didn't like some of the pardons Clinton and Obama gave out, but that didn't mean I wanted to end the power of pardons.

The President cannot pardon someone convicted of a state crime.

Has that ever been tried in the courts?

If not, I guess a President hasn't tried to pardon someone convicted of a State crime yet.

Read your Constitution please.

The President...shall have Power to grant Reprieves and Pardons for Offences against the United States,

When the Constitution was written that could be mean the States as a whole or the individual States.

Again, has this ever been tried at the SC?

 

[martybegan]

So all of a sudden getting input from celebrities is a bad thing?

Wow, things change so much when it's not a Democrat in the Oval office....

No…getting input from Kim Kardashin is a bad thing. Or do you consider her an expert on Prison Reform and why?

She has a cause, she is petitioning the President. Plenty of Celebrities did that when Obama was President. Why now all of a sudden is it such a big deal?

Sly Stallone got Jack Johnson pardoned. If someone uses their celebrity to get something good done, and they don't get all preachy and bitchy about it, I don't have an issue with it.

I think you missed the point but that's okay.

No I didn't.

Yes Kim is a vapid moron (or plays one on TV) but why does that matter?

It is a distraction that the discussion doesn't need. Have the summit but have serious people there.

I don't remember progressives being so anti-celebrity when it was their causes and their President being foisted.

 

[Crixus]

Governors & presidents too often get carried away with this crap. Trump seems to be no different.

You just pissed that you can’t get one for your DUI. Trump hasn’t pardoned any drug dealers, terriorist or thieves. Just change the channel and deal with it.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

still a check ...it doesn't need an outside check---
the government has the outside checks .....
...plus the Senate/House/community alderman/cities/etc pass and enable/etc the laws..... that's an outside check

The whole purpose of "checks and balances" is that each branch can override the other in certain situations.

The power of pardon is a check on both the judiciaries and the legislatures of not just the federal government, but the State governments as well.

I didn't like some of the pardons Clinton and Obama gave out, but that didn't mean I wanted to end the power of pardons.

The President cannot pardon someone convicted of a state crime.

Has that ever been tried in the courts?

If not, I guess a President hasn't tried to pardon someone convicted of a State crime yet.

Read your Constitution please.

The President...shall have Power to grant Reprieves and Pardons for Offences against the United States,

When the Constitution was written that could be mean the States as a whole or the individual States.

Again, has this ever been tried at the SC?

Can you read? What does it say in the red text taken directly from the Constitution?

 

[Care4all]

Wow!!!

what was so WOW, about that clip????

 

[The Original Tree]

Its about the only defense a President has against an Unconstitutional Witch Hunt. Keep it.

 

[Care4all]

It is something that is a giant anachronism to our system. I’ve never understood why it is there to start with.

Good post.

It is part of the checks and balances system, giving the executive an override of both the judiciary and the legislature in specific instances.

Before trying to get rid of it, first people should try to see what would happen if it was removed.

It would make the Judiciary supreme over the executive in all situations.

The executive check on the judiciary already exist in the Presidential power to nominated judges.

but after they are on the bench??

fyi-
the Congress has the 'after appointment check', with the power of impeachment over the judge, if necessary.

 

[martybegan]

It is something that is a giant anachronism to our system. I’ve never understood why it is there to start with.

Good post.

It is part of the checks and balances system, giving the executive an override of both the judiciary and the legislature in specific instances.

Before trying to get rid of it, first people should try to see what would happen if it was removed.

It would make the Judiciary supreme over the executive in all situations.

The executive check on the judiciary already exist in the Presidential power to nominated judges.

but after they are on the bench??

fyi-
the Congress has the 'after appointment check', with the power of impeachment over the judge, if necessary.

Again that impacts the judges themselves, not the judgments they put in place. Pardon is an override of both the legislature and the judicial in the case of specific offenses and individuals.

 

[candycorn]

No…getting input from Kim Kardashin is a bad thing. Or do you consider her an expert on Prison Reform and why?

She has a cause, she is petitioning the President. Plenty of Celebrities did that when Obama was President. Why now all of a sudden is it such a big deal?

Sly Stallone got Jack Johnson pardoned. If someone uses their celebrity to get something good done, and they don't get all preachy and bitchy about it, I don't have an issue with it.

I think you missed the point but that's okay.

No I didn't.

Yes Kim is a vapid moron (or plays one on TV) but why does that matter?

It is a distraction that the discussion doesn't need. Have the summit but have serious people there.

I don't remember progressives being so anti-celebrity when it was their causes and their President being foisted.

Such as?

 

[candycorn]

No…getting input from Kim Kardashin is a bad thing. Or do you consider her an expert on Prison Reform and why?

She has a cause, she is petitioning the President. Plenty of Celebrities did that when Obama was President. Why now all of a sudden is it such a big deal?

Sly Stallone got Jack Johnson pardoned. If someone uses their celebrity to get something good done, and they don't get all preachy and bitchy about it, I don't have an issue with it.

I think you missed the point but that's okay.

No I didn't.

Yes Kim is a vapid moron (or plays one on TV) but why does that matter?

It is a distraction that the discussion doesn't need. Have the summit but have serious people there.

I don't remember progressives being so anti-celebrity when it was their causes and their President being foisted.

Can Trump pardon himself in your opinion?

 

[Care4all]

It is something that is a giant anachronism to our system. I’ve never understood why it is there to start with.

Good post.

It is part of the checks and balances system, giving the executive an override of both the judiciary and the legislature in specific instances.

Before trying to get rid of it, first people should try to see what would happen if it was removed.

It would make the Judiciary supreme over the executive in all situations.

The executive check on the judiciary already exist in the Presidential power to nominated judges.

but after they are on the bench??

fyi-
the Congress has the 'after appointment check', with the power of impeachment over the judge, if necessary.

Again that impacts the judges themselves, not the judgments they put in place. Pardon is an override of both the legislature and the judicial in the case of specific offenses and individuals.

but it also can be used for anything and anyone the president wants, right?

He can pardon a person just convicted of mass murder, even without following the protocol of the Justice dept for wait times and remorse, he can pardon his son, his son in law, manafort, flynn, the Russians indicted, and himself all in one breath, right? All within his power, right?

 

[martybegan]

She has a cause, she is petitioning the President. Plenty of Celebrities did that when Obama was President. Why now all of a sudden is it such a big deal?

Sly Stallone got Jack Johnson pardoned. If someone uses their celebrity to get something good done, and they don't get all preachy and bitchy about it, I don't have an issue with it.

I think you missed the point but that's okay.

No I didn't.

Yes Kim is a vapid moron (or plays one on TV) but why does that matter?

It is a distraction that the discussion doesn't need. Have the summit but have serious people there.

I don't remember progressives being so anti-celebrity when it was their causes and their President being foisted.

Such as?

CNN star Jim Acosta rips Kim Kardashian's prison reform meeting with Trump, but lauded John Legend's activism on same during Obama years

 

[martybegan]

She has a cause, she is petitioning the President. Plenty of Celebrities did that when Obama was President. Why now all of a sudden is it such a big deal?

Sly Stallone got Jack Johnson pardoned. If someone uses their celebrity to get something good done, and they don't get all preachy and bitchy about it, I don't have an issue with it.

I think you missed the point but that's okay.

No I didn't.

Yes Kim is a vapid moron (or plays one on TV) but why does that matter?

It is a distraction that the discussion doesn't need. Have the summit but have serious people there.

I don't remember progressives being so anti-celebrity when it was their causes and their President being foisted.

Can Trump pardon himself in your opinion?

I'm not a fan of the whole "pardon before convicted" thing. Also even if you go with that, his pardon power doesn't prevent the House from Impeaching him and removing him from office via the Senate trial. I would think the courts would look sourly on any impeached president pardoning anyone during the process.

So, my answer is a "no" with a few minor qualifications"

 

[martybegan]

It is part of the checks and balances system, giving the executive an override of both the judiciary and the legislature in specific instances.

Before trying to get rid of it, first people should try to see what would happen if it was removed.

It would make the Judiciary supreme over the executive in all situations.

The executive check on the judiciary already exist in the Presidential power to nominated judges.

but after they are on the bench??

fyi-
the Congress has the 'after appointment check', with the power of impeachment over the judge, if necessary.

Again that impacts the judges themselves, not the judgments they put in place. Pardon is an override of both the legislature and the judicial in the case of specific offenses and individuals.

but it also can be used for anything and anyone the president wants, right?

He can pardon a person just convicted of mass murder, even without following the protocol of the Justice dept for wait times and remorse, he can pardon his son, his son in law, manafort, flynn, the Russians indicted, and himself all in one breath, right? All within his power, right?

Not sure if he can pardon people before being convicted, but once convicted he can pardon anyone he wants who was convicted of a Federal Crime (I was corrected on the whole State crime thing yesterday, but I am curious to see if this was ever brought up and then decided before the SC).

The check over abuse of pardon power is the ability of the legislature to impeach the President.

 

[Care4all]

Its about the only defense a President has against an Unconstitutional Witch Hunt. Keep it.

the nano second the president uses a pardon for his own defense, it becomes an abuse of power and is an impeachable offense, imo...

please Mr President, let's test your theory of unlawfulness!

 

[Care4all]

The executive check on the judiciary already exist in the Presidential power to nominated judges.

but after they are on the bench??

fyi-
the Congress has the 'after appointment check', with the power of impeachment over the judge, if necessary.

Again that impacts the judges themselves, not the judgments they put in place. Pardon is an override of both the legislature and the judicial in the case of specific offenses and individuals.

but it also can be used for anything and anyone the president wants, right?

He can pardon a person just convicted of mass murder, even without following the protocol of the Justice dept for wait times and remorse, he can pardon his son, his son in law, manafort, flynn, the Russians indicted, and himself all in one breath, right? All within his power, right?

Not sure if he can pardon people before being convicted, but once convicted he can pardon anyone he wants who was convicted of a Federal Crime (I was corrected on the whole State crime thing yesterday, but I am curious to see if this was ever brought up and then decided before the SC).

The check over abuse of pardon power is the ability of the legislature to impeach the President.

yes, they can pardon before conviction or even indictment.... we found out when Ford pardoned Nixon, before any charges were brought against him....

though, this was not fought out in the courts....so, it has not been tested....it was meant to be a healing measure for the Nation after the whole ordeal, according to Ford.....

 

[martybegan]

but after they are on the bench??

fyi-
the Congress has the 'after appointment check', with the power of impeachment over the judge, if necessary.

Again that impacts the judges themselves, not the judgments they put in place. Pardon is an override of both the legislature and the judicial in the case of specific offenses and individuals.

but it also can be used for anything and anyone the president wants, right?

He can pardon a person just convicted of mass murder, even without following the protocol of the Justice dept for wait times and remorse, he can pardon his son, his son in law, manafort, flynn, the Russians indicted, and himself all in one breath, right? All within his power, right?

Not sure if he can pardon people before being convicted, but once convicted he can pardon anyone he wants who was convicted of a Federal Crime (I was corrected on the whole State crime thing yesterday, but I am curious to see if this was ever brought up and then decided before the SC).

The check over abuse of pardon power is the ability of the legislature to impeach the President.

yes, they can pardon before conviction or even indictment.... we found out when Ford pardoned Nixon, before any charges were brought against him....

though, this was not fought out in the courts....so, it has not been tested....it was meant to be a healing measure for the Nation after the whole ordeal, according to Ford.....

Still seems a bit hazy to me, and since it was never challenged it is still an open question.

 

[candycorn]

I think you missed the point but that's okay.

No I didn't.

Yes Kim is a vapid moron (or plays one on TV) but why does that matter?

It is a distraction that the discussion doesn't need. Have the summit but have serious people there.

I don't remember progressives being so anti-celebrity when it was their causes and their President being foisted.

Such as?

CNN star Jim Acosta rips Kim Kardashian's prison reform meeting with Trump, but lauded John Legend's activism on same during Obama years

perhaps I just missed it. Was there a summit meeting Legend attended on the subject where he took time to pose for a photo op in the Oval Office?

 

[martybegan]

No I didn't.

Yes Kim is a vapid moron (or plays one on TV) but why does that matter?

It is a distraction that the discussion doesn't need. Have the summit but have serious people there.

I don't remember progressives being so anti-celebrity when it was their causes and their President being foisted.

Such as?

CNN star Jim Acosta rips Kim Kardashian's prison reform meeting with Trump, but lauded John Legend's activism on same during Obama years

perhaps I just missed it. Was there a summit meeting Legend attended on the subject where he took time to pose for a photo op in the Oval Office?

He wrote a letter about Prison reform and there is mention of a White House visit, but can't find pictures searching that give a date.

Evidently it wasn't newsworthy.

 

[candycorn]

It is a distraction that the discussion doesn't need. Have the summit but have serious people there.

I don't remember progressives being so anti-celebrity when it was their causes and their President being foisted.

Such as?

CNN star Jim Acosta rips Kim Kardashian's prison reform meeting with Trump, but lauded John Legend's activism on same during Obama years

perhaps I just missed it. Was there a summit meeting Legend attended on the subject where he took time to pose for a photo op in the Oval Office?

He wrote a letter about Prison reform and there is mention of a White House visit, but can't find pictures searching that give a date.

Evidently it wasn't newsworthy.

Okay. As you said, celebrity is credibility. It was so in both admins and will be in the next one. Good discussion.