Pro-Abortionists are against regulations! Major decisions in Texas.

[elektra]

How many died in the year before the regulation?

None?

700 per 100,000 abortions. Seems impossible to be so high, that would mean there are about 7,000 deaths per year?
Risk Factors for Legal Induced Abortion–Related Mortality in... : Obstetrics & Gynecology

RESULTS: During 1988–1997, the overall death rate for women obtaining legally induced abortions was 0.7 per 100,000 legal induced abortions. The risk of death increased exponentially by 38% for each additional week of gestation. Compared with women whose abortions were performed at or before 8 weeks of gestation, women whose abortions were performed in the second trimester were significantly more likely to die of abortion-related causes. The relative risk (unadjusted) of abortion-related mortality was 14.7 at 13–15 weeks of gestation (95% confidence interval [CI] 6.2, 34.7), 29.5 at 16–20 weeks (95% CI 12.9, 67.4), and 76.6 at or after 21 weeks (95% CI 32.5, 180.8). Up to 87% of deaths in women who chose to terminate their pregnancies after 8 weeks of gestation may have been avoidable if these women had accessed abortion services before 8 weeks of gestation.

CONCLUSION: Although primary prevention of unintended pregnancy is optimal, among women who choose to terminate their pregnancies, increased access to surgical and nonsurgical abortion services may increase the proportion of abortions performed at lower-risk, early gestational ages and help further decrease deaths.

 

[Dont Taz Me Bro]

How many died in the year before the regulation?

None?

700 per 100,000 abortions. Seems impossible to be so high, that would mean there are about 7,000 deaths per year?
Risk Factors for Legal Induced Abortion–Related Mortality in... : Obstetrics & Gynecology

RESULTS: During 1988–1997, the overall death rate for women obtaining legally induced abortions was 0.7 per 100,000 legal induced abortions. The risk of death increased exponentially by 38% for each additional week of gestation. Compared with women whose abortions were performed at or before 8 weeks of gestation, women whose abortions were performed in the second trimester were significantly more likely to die of abortion-related causes. The relative risk (unadjusted) of abortion-related mortality was 14.7 at 13–15 weeks of gestation (95% confidence interval [CI] 6.2, 34.7), 29.5 at 16–20 weeks (95% CI 12.9, 67.4), and 76.6 at or after 21 weeks (95% CI 32.5, 180.8). Up to 87% of deaths in women who chose to terminate their pregnancies after 8 weeks of gestation may have been avoidable if these women had accessed abortion services before 8 weeks of gestation.

CONCLUSION: Although primary prevention of unintended pregnancy is optimal, among women who choose to terminate their pregnancies, increased access to surgical and nonsurgical abortion services may increase the proportion of abortions performed at lower-risk, early gestational ages and help further decrease deaths.

That was 20-30 years ago. What is the rate now?

 

[elektra]

Here you can download a copy of a free report


Maternal Mortality in the United States: Report From the Maternal Mortality Collaborative.
July 1988 - Volume 72 - Issue 1 : Obstetrics & Gynecology


This report lists the rates at .7 to 1.5 deaths per 100,000 abortions.
If you are over the age of 30 your risk of dying during or after an abortion doubles.

 

[elektra]

That was 20-30 years ago. What is the rate now?

Great question, unfortunately the government is years behind in reporting these things, but obviously with what you will call more restrictive laws and half the abortion clinics closed, the death rates of young woman has decreased.

 

[elektra]

How many died in the year before the regulation?

None?

It looks like the CDC is years behind in their reporting, so there is no way to answer your question. Damn Liberal Government workers, huh!

 

[Dont Taz Me Bro]

That was 20-30 years ago. What is the rate now?

Great question, unfortunately the government is years behind in reporting these things, but obviously with what you will call more restrictive laws and half the abortion clinics closed, the death rates of young woman has decreased.

So you think the government should implement another nanny state law to protect people from themselves?

 

[Syriusly]

Wow is all I can say.
Listening to the News out of Texas today I was surprised that the people who claim to be saving a Women's life and health are protesting against Regulations that will require Doctors to perform abortions in a Hospital type of surgical room instead of a simple office.

Seems to make sense, life saving health procedures need to be performed in Hospitals or Clinics that are designed for surgical/emergency procedures.

The advocates argue, this is about Health, in many cases life saving procedures.
So how is it that Democrats who are all about Health and Science are suddenly against REGULATIONS?

Photo: More rallies outside US Supreme Court building in Washington, DC, before abortion case set to be argued Wednesday morning - @oyez

Editor's note: The U.S. Supreme Court will hear oral arguments this morning in Whole Woman’s Health v. Hellerstedt, a case that could determine how far states may go in regulating abortions without violating a woman’s constitutional rights. Two provisions of a Texas law are being challenged: one that requires abortion clinics to meet standards of ambulatory surgery centers, and one that requires abortion doctors to have admitting privileges at nearby hospitals.

View attachment 65563

What do these requirements have to do with either health or science?

Is Texas Abortion Law Protecting Health or Attacking Women?

The Supreme Court said last week it would take on the biggest challenge to abortion rights in a quarter century, agreeing to hear a challenge against a Texas law that put strict requirements on abortion providers in the name of protecting women's health.

The 2013 law requires abortion clinics to meet the same medical standards as standalone surgery centers, and forces doctors who provide abortions to have admitting privileges at nearby hospitals.

But medical groups have lined up behind the Center for Reproductive Rights, which is challenging the law, to say the requirements aren't necessary.

"Abortion is a very safe procedure, and complications requiring hospital admission are extremely rare," the American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists (ACOG) and the American Medical Association (AMA) said in a joint amicus brief filed in a 2013 appeal against the law.

"There is no medical basis to require abortion providers to have local hospital-admitting privileges. Emergency room physicians, hospital-based physicians, and on-call specialists already provide prompt and effective treatment to all patients with urgent medical needs, including women with abortion-related complications," it added.

"There is no medical basis to require abortion providers to have local hospital admitting privileges."
"Moreover, there is no medically sound reason for Texas to impose more stringent requirements on abortion facilities than it does on other medical facilities that perform procedures with similar, or even greater, risks."

These include colonoscopies, laser eye surgery and vasectomies. Women can get very similar procedures to abortions, for instance when they're having a miscarriage, in a doctor's office in many state

 

[WorldWatcher]

Here you can download a copy of a free report
Maternal Mortality in the United States: Report From the Maternal Mortality Collaborative.
July 1988 - Volume 72 - Issue 1 : Obstetrics & Gynecology

This report lists the rates at .7 to 1.5 deaths per 100,000 abortions.
If you are over the age of 30 your risk of dying during or after an abortion doubles.

1988?


How about something more current. This from January 2015 -->> Incidence of Emergency Department Visits and Complications A... : Obstetrics & Gynecology
Abortion complication rates are 'very low,' study says


Complication Rate for abortion = 0.23%
Complication Rate for Tooth Extraction = 7.0%
Complication Rate for Colonoscopy = 0.35%


Yet the Texas law requires admission privileges and surgical standards even for medical abortions - including giving a pill.

Yet don't require surgical standards for oral surgery or colonoscopies which have higher complication rates.



>>>>

 

[Syriusly]

Abortion is much less dangerous than oral surgery, plastic surgery, or many other outpatient procedures which are _not_ required by law to have such stringent "safety" requirements, requirements that actually have nothing to do with safety.

Pro-lifers, it's obvious you care nothing about safety, as illustrated by your raging double standards. You know you're lying, we know you're lying, so why keep up the charade?

Remember, you will burn in hell for lying so proudly. There's no "Lying is fine if it helps you attack dirty liberals" clause.

Actually you will burn in hell for supporting abortion. God doesn't like your support for killing his innocent children.

Jesus never condemned abortion- matter of fact, abortion isn't even mentioned in the Bible- even when God ordered people to kill children and babies- abortion not mentioned.

Meanwhile- these laws are intended as an end run around a woman's right of choice- and have nothing to do with protecting the health of anyone who is treated at one of these clinics.

 

[WorldWatcher]

1988?


How about something more current. This from January 2015 -->> Incidence of Emergency Department Visits and Complications A... : Obstetrics & Gynecology
Abortion complication rates are 'very low,' study says


Complication Rate for abortion = 0.23%
Complication Rate for Tooth Extraction = 7.0%
Complication Rate for Colonoscopy = 0.35%


Yet the Texas law requires admission privileges and surgical standards even for medical abortions - including giving a pill.

Yet don't require surgical standards for oral surgery or colonoscopies which have higher complication rates.



>>>>

Just to be clear, I don't have an issue with admitting privileges to a hospital within 30 miles and surgical standards if that is what a state wants.

Any office that performs minor surgery - tooth extraction, oral surgery, colonoscopies, laser eye correction, in office biopsies, early to mid abortions, etc., etc, - That's fine. But the standard should apply to protect the safety of ALL patients.


>>>>

 

[BlindBoo]

This is a simple regulation to save a Woman's life,

No, it's an overreaching regulation designed to put clinics out of busniess.

 

[SwimExpert]

Thus about detaching something clinging deep inside a woman's body, in some cases to save your ger life. Funny how willfully describe it as simply, "simething that goes in"?

You do not know what an abortion is, do you?

Sure I do. Abortion is what would have spared us you.

 

[Montrovant]

Here you can download a copy of a free report


Maternal Mortality in the United States: Report From the Maternal Mortality Collaborative.
July 1988 - Volume 72 - Issue 1 : Obstetrics & Gynecology


This report lists the rates at .7 to 1.5 deaths per 100,000 abortions.
If you are over the age of 30 your risk of dying during or after an abortion doubles.

To compare, here are some estimates about deaths related to liposuction :
http://www.fda.gov/MedicalDevices/P...rgeryandLifeSupport/Liposuction/ucm256139.htm

"Some of the studies indicate that the risk of death due to liposuction is as low as 3 deaths for every 100,000 liposuction operations performed. However, other studies indicate that the risk of death is between 20 and 100 deaths per 100,000 liposuction procedures. One study suggests that the death rate is higher in liposuction surgeries in which other surgical procedures are also performed at the same time. In order to understand the size of the risk, one paper compares the deaths from liposuction to that for deaths from car accidents (16 per 100,000). It is important to remember that liposuction is a surgical procedure and that there may be serious complications, including death."

Here is the CDC reporting on abortion related deaths from 2008 :
Abortion Surveillance — United States, 2009

"In 2008, the most recent year for which data were available, 12 women were reported to have died as a result of complications from known legal induced abortions. No reported deaths were associated with known illegal induced abortions."

Here is a report that deaths occur at a rate of 1/3000 to 1/30000 colonoscopies :
When to Worry About the Risks of Colonoscopy

Based on those numbers, what makes abortions in particular need of these regulations which, at least so far as I know, don't apply to other outpatient procedures with higher risk of death?

If Texas requires the same types of things from things like colonoscopy and liposuction, that's a different story.

 

[elektra]

Wow, Doctors actually see a need to perform abortions and hospitals. Doctors also describe abortion as a surgical procedure, that certainly flies in the face of some of these uninformed posts

http://journals.lww.com/greenjourna...rs_for_Legal_Induced_Abortion_Related.20.aspx

Legal induced abortion is one of the most frequently performed surgical procedures in the United States. With approximately 1.2 million legal induced abortions performed in 1997,1 minimizing risk for women who choose to terminate their pregnancies is of clear public health importance.

Pregnancy-related deaths are deaths that occur among women within 1 year of pregnancy from complications of the pregnancy or delivery; deaths associated with complications of induced abortion2 (ie, abortion-related deaths) also are considered pregnancy related. Previous reports on abortion-related mortality for 1972–1987 have informed abortion policy and practice and improved safety for women. In addition, data on the lower risk of death with certain procedures and anesthetics have guided practice, substantially reducing the number of abortions conducted with methods found to be associated with increased risk.3–8 However, the medical practice and provision of abortion services continues to change. For example, since the mid-1990s, medical (ie, nonsurgical) regimens using abortifacients within the first 7 weeks of pregnancy have been used to terminate pregnancies.9 This report provides information on risk factors for abortion-related deaths among women who had abortions in recent years that will help inform and update policymakers and practitioners about abortion-related maternal mortality.

CONCLUSION: Although primary prevention of unintended pregnancy is optimal, among women who choose to terminate their pregnancies, increased access to surgical and nonsurgical abortion services may increase the proportion of abortions performed at lower-risk, early gestational ages and help further decrease deaths. (Obstet Gynecol 2004; 103:729–37. © 2004 by The American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists.

 

[elektra]

This is about detaching something clinging deep inside a woman's body, in some cases to save your her life. Funny how willfully describe it as simply, "something that goes in"?

You do not know what an abortion is, do you?

Sure I do. Abortion is what would have spared us you.

Hitler did about the same, ended the lives he did not like, so you admit you want to kill people you disagree with and that abortion is nothing more than a political tool? Nice to know.

 

[elektra]

[
To compare, here are some estimates about deaths related to liposuction :
http://www.fda.gov/MedicalDevices/P...rgeryandLifeSupport/Liposuction/ucm256139.htm

"Some of the studies indicate that the risk of death due to liposuction is as low as 3 deaths for every 100,000 liposuction operations performed. However, other studies indicate that the risk of death is between 20 and 100 deaths per 100,000 liposuction procedures. One study suggests that the death rate is higher in liposuction surgeries in which other surgical procedures are also performed at the same time. In order to understand the size of the risk, one paper compares the deaths from liposuction to that for deaths from car accidents (16 per 100,000). It is important to remember that liposuction is a surgical procedure and that there may be serious complications, including death."

Here is the CDC reporting on abortion related deaths from 2008 :
Abortion Surveillance — United States, 2009

"In 2008, the most recent year for which data were available, 12 women were reported to have died as a result of complications from known legal induced abortions. No reported deaths were associated with known illegal induced abortions."

Here is a report that deaths occur at a rate of 1/3000 to 1/30000 colonoscopies :
When to Worry About the Risks of Colonoscopy

Based on those numbers, what makes abortions in particular need of these regulations which, at least so far as I know, don't apply to other outpatient procedures with higher risk of death?

If Texas requires the same types of things from things like colonoscopy and liposuction, that's a different story.

Moral equivalency is not an argument

 

[elektra]

This is a simple regulation to save a Woman's life,

No, it's an overreaching regulation designed to put clinics out of busniess.

The doctors and administrators can spend less on Mercedes Benzs and more on medical equipment. Why is that such a hard choice?

 

[SwimExpert]

This is about detaching something clinging deep inside a woman's body, in some cases to save your her life. Funny how willfully describe it as simply, "something that goes in"?

You do not know what an abortion is, do you?

Sure I do. Abortion is what would have spared us you.

Hitler did about the same, ended the lives he did not like, so you admit you want to kill people you disagree with and that abortion is nothing more than a political tool? Nice to know.

That was so far out of left field it's not even funny.

 

[Montrovant]

[
To compare, here are some estimates about deaths related to liposuction :
http://www.fda.gov/MedicalDevices/P...rgeryandLifeSupport/Liposuction/ucm256139.htm

"Some of the studies indicate that the risk of death due to liposuction is as low as 3 deaths for every 100,000 liposuction operations performed. However, other studies indicate that the risk of death is between 20 and 100 deaths per 100,000 liposuction procedures. One study suggests that the death rate is higher in liposuction surgeries in which other surgical procedures are also performed at the same time. In order to understand the size of the risk, one paper compares the deaths from liposuction to that for deaths from car accidents (16 per 100,000). It is important to remember that liposuction is a surgical procedure and that there may be serious complications, including death."

Here is the CDC reporting on abortion related deaths from 2008 :
Abortion Surveillance — United States, 2009

"In 2008, the most recent year for which data were available, 12 women were reported to have died as a result of complications from known legal induced abortions. No reported deaths were associated with known illegal induced abortions."

Here is a report that deaths occur at a rate of 1/3000 to 1/30000 colonoscopies :
When to Worry About the Risks of Colonoscopy

Based on those numbers, what makes abortions in particular need of these regulations which, at least so far as I know, don't apply to other outpatient procedures with higher risk of death?

If Texas requires the same types of things from things like colonoscopy and liposuction, that's a different story.

Moral equivalency is not an argument

That doesn't answer my question. Why do abortions need these new regulations that other outpatient procedures with greater risk of death do not? Or do you think that all such procedures should have the same regulations, and if so, why do you think the Texas legislature only included abortions?

The point, of course, is that limiting the regulation to abortions makes it appear to be an attempt to limit abortions rather than make them safer in any way.

 

[elektra]

Sure I do. Abortion is what would have spared us you.


That was so far out of left field it's not even funny.

But telling me I should be dead because you disagree with my view is not far out in left field? No, my comment is right on the mark, given the view of my life that you express.