Pro-life at 51%

[DiamondDave]

Well, if you are that picky then why the hell do you care what others do?

Just as we care when other people take the lives of other humans

Like I said... it's about the other human life involved.. not about your vagina.. you want to concrete up your vagina, carve it out, or turn it into a party room... all well and good... but when there is a human life involved, even at an early developmental stage, it is not simply a part of your body... it is the parts of 2 persons brought together to form a completely new human life.. it is it's own separate life, not identical to you.. it is as innocent as innocent can be, and it is reliant on the parent for existence.. and those kids remain that way for a long time in and out of the womb... but because they cannot take care of themselves, does not make them any less of a human... just as a newborn is no less of a human than a teenager, which is no less of a human than a middle aged person, which is no less of a person than an elderly person... as stated, it's all human life at different stages

Really? So far all I see is people pushing their morals onto others without regard to their needs.

Needs??
Really... Who takes care of your needs?? That responsibility falls on you.. Whether it be your need to put food n your belly, a roof on your head, or whatever other need you can think of...
Now if you wish to ask for help and others are willing to help on their own volition, all well and good.. I think being charitable is great.... though being charitable does not mean that others take over your responsibility, just that people are voluntarily helping out of the goodness of their own heart

And we have morals as a society.. one of which that is usually pretty generally accepted is not taking the lives of others... which is what those who are "pro-life" are trying to do... protecting an innocent life, no matter what developmental stage it is in

 

[Neser Boha]

If it were only your body and your life.. I would agree with you... but the simple fact is that there is another body and life involved... and I only wish that that little life had the ability to tell you "FUCK YOU"

As long as IT is a part of my body, the government nor anyone else has no claim over it and no RIGHT to tell me what to do with it. This is a a LEGAL issue and should be purely a legal issue. It's usually the religious freaks that mix up morality with legality by injecting emotions into it that have no place in a legal system. Do you know what objectivity is? It is something taught in college, maybe you should look into it.

Whether it is moral or right has nothing to do with it. Also, as a man - you simply have no say in the matter. You can just state your opinion as our legal system makes possible, but that's - unfortunately for you - it. If you were a woman, what you'd do with your little zygote or fetus would be totally up to you... the legal system would only guarantee you the possibility to terminate the medical condition if you chose so.

There are lots of immoral actions that are not punishable by law nor should they be. You control freaks need to lay the hell off.


Does the fact that men are totally and utterly NOT in control when it comes to these issues give you the willies? Ha ha ha, suck it up because you can't do SHIT about it, sweetheart. As far as this issue goes, this is the woman's world.

Ta-ta!

No.. it is not a part of your body... it is a separate life... it's own DNA signature separate from yours

Just as you don't have a right to terminate a child under your care in any other circumstance, even if that child is not one you want or you feel there is something wrong with the child

Again.. you don't want to deal with the risk and consequences of pregnancy, keep your legs closed

Like they say in the carnivals.. "You pay your money you take your chances"

I really don't care what your opinion is when it comes to my body... so I'll fuck and if I should get pregnant and decide that I am just not ready to have it ... I'll have the damn abortion and you can't do crap about it. And if the likes of you make it illegal, I'll get in my car, drive over to Canada and get it done over there. Understand? Women will have abortions whether you like it or not... by making it illegal, you're making criminals out of them and you're endangering their lives by the practice going underground into the black market.

So there... your opinion is worth NOTHING when it comes to my distinctive lump of DNA.

The above situation is fictional as I have actually no intention of ever having an abortion as I could not live with it and actually am planning to have a baby in a couple of years. That's who I am and that is purely my choice- uninfluenced by anyone else's opinion. But - I'm a strong supporter of others' right to choose and compared to you - I don't judge. The pure arrogance of those are willing to impose their little fucking opinions on lives of others by making choice illegal pisses me the hell off... Judging little pricks - that's exactly what you are...

Yeah, I'm quite passionate about others' imposing their opinions on others... VERY FUCKING PASSIONATE.

 

[Cecilie1200]

I am only pro-choice during the first trimester or very early second trimester. I'd say about 15 weeks is the limit.

Third trimester abortions or partial abortion is outrageous and disgusting.

Third trimester abortions are rare and occur when a woman and her DOCTOR decide there's no other choice.

It's one of those fabricated issues that the religious right loves to rely on because of the visceral response to it.... it's mostly a non-issue.

Amniocentesis is usually performed sometime between the 15th and 18th week of a pregnancy...

so thanks for your "limit", but no thanks....

that is just one of the reasons why you need to get out of the way and leave the decision between a woman (and her significant other if she chooses), her doctor and her G-d...

you know, like it is now....

regardless of the religious right's propaganda.

Agree totally...

Just would like to add a bit of an acidic statement...

I am a woman and I take it as a personal offense and an insult that anyone should suggest that I don't have TOTAL and singular control over my body. And to all those that suggest that they have a say in my bodily functions I say - FUCK YOU!

You think you have total and singular control over your body? Really? So you choose to have messy, bloody, cramp-filled periods once a month, do you? You have regular mammograms and PAP smears simply for the sheer fun of it, because obviously you won't choose to allow breast or cervical cancer into your body, over which you have total control?

You're either fucking delusional, or too stupid to breathe without a diagram. Begone, fool.

 

[Newby]

The difference is a bacteria will only ever be a bacteria.... the fetus/child will go beyond X number of cells and become a living, breathing, child.. it is a human life, just at an early stage of development

The problem DD is the issue of whether or not one should have an abortion isn't the issue. The actual issue is WHEN DOES GOVERNMENT HAVE THE RIGHT TO CONTROL A PERSON'S BODY?

The RvW court was very specific about the balancing of interests. It was a compromise decision that looked at pregnancy from minute one to week 41, acknowledged that life (and govt's interest) in it, exists on a continuum from pre-embryo to born child. Nothing unborn is a citizen with rights, therefore the "rights" of a zygote were not ever at issue. However, the governmental interest in protecting potential life was deemed to increase as the pregnancy progressed. Personally, I'd agree with that assessment.

And your arbitrary detrmination as to when it is a "child" should no more be imposed upon me, then anyone else could ever force you to support terminating a pregnancy.

Really? Then why can the government choose to lay 2 counts of murder charges against someone who murders a prenant woman?

 

[Shogun]

As long as IT is a part of my body, the government nor anyone else has no claim over it and no RIGHT to tell me what to do with it. This is a a LEGAL issue and should be purely a legal issue. It's usually the religious freaks that mix up morality with legality by injecting emotions into it that have no place in a legal system. Do you know what objectivity is? It is something taught in college, maybe you should look into it.

Whether it is moral or right has nothing to do with it. Also, as a man - you simply have no say in the matter. You can just state your opinion as our legal system makes possible, but that's - unfortunately for you - it. If you were a woman, what you'd do with your little zygote or fetus would be totally up to you... the legal system would only guarantee you the possibility to terminate the medical condition if you chose so.

There are lots of immoral actions that are not punishable by law nor should they be. You control freaks need to lay the hell off.


Does the fact that men are totally and utterly NOT in control when it comes to these issues give you the willies? Ha ha ha, suck it up because you can't do SHIT about it, sweetheart. As far as this issue goes, this is the woman's world.

Ta-ta!

No.. it is not a part of your body... it is a separate life... it's own DNA signature separate from yours

Just as you don't have a right to terminate a child under your care in any other circumstance, even if that child is not one you want or you feel there is something wrong with the child

Again.. you don't want to deal with the risk and consequences of pregnancy, keep your legs closed

Like they say in the carnivals.. "You pay your money you take your chances"

I really don't care what your opinion is when it comes to my body... so I'll fuck and if I should get pregnant and decide that I am just not ready to have it ... I'll have the damn abortion and you can't do crap about it. And if the likes of you make it illegal, I'll get in my car, drive over to Canada and get it done over there. Understand? Women will have abortions whether you like it or not... by making it illegal, you're making criminals out of them and you're endangering their lives by the practice going underground into the black market.

So there... your opinion is worth NOTHING when it comes to my distinctive lump of DNA.

The above situation is fictional as I have actually no intention of ever having an abortion as I could not live with it and actually am planning to have a baby in a couple of years. That's who I am and that is purely my choice- uninfluenced by anyone else's opinion. But - I'm a strong supporter of others' right to choose and compared to you - I don't judge. The pure arrogance of those are willing to impose their little fucking opinions on lives of others by making choice illegal pisses me the hell off... Judging little pricks - that's exactly what you are...

Yeah, I'm quite passionate about others' imposing their opinions on others... VERY FUCKING PASSIONATE.

Indeed. NOW you have that option. Perhaps you should consider what exactly the OP is saying about how that WILL change.

 

[catzmeow]

evil sperm? you calling manifold a rapist? Otherwise, the woman has a choice in the matter.

Actually, the implication was that Shogun, thanks to his charming personality and core principles, doesn't get a lot of opportunities to PUT HIS SEMEN into any vaginas.

God, I hate explaining humor, it always kills it.

 

[Neser Boha]

Third trimester abortions are rare and occur when a woman and her DOCTOR decide there's no other choice.

It's one of those fabricated issues that the religious right loves to rely on because of the visceral response to it.... it's mostly a non-issue.

Amniocentesis is usually performed sometime between the 15th and 18th week of a pregnancy...

so thanks for your "limit", but no thanks....

that is just one of the reasons why you need to get out of the way and leave the decision between a woman (and her significant other if she chooses), her doctor and her G-d...

you know, like it is now....

regardless of the religious right's propaganda.

Agree totally...

Just would like to add a bit of an acidic statement...

I am a woman and I take it as a personal offense and an insult that anyone should suggest that I don't have TOTAL and singular control over my body. And to all those that suggest that they have a say in my bodily functions I say - FUCK YOU!

You think you have total and singular control over your body? Really? So you choose to have messy, bloody, cramp-filled periods once a month, do you? You have regular mammograms and PAP smears simply for the sheer fun of it, because obviously you won't choose to allow breast or cervical cancer into your body, over which you have total control?

You're either fucking delusional, or too stupid to breathe without a diagram. Begone, fool.

I have a choice and control over whether or not I have an abortion, sweetie. Go change the tampon.. it's leaking...

 

[elvis]

evil sperm? you calling manifold a rapist? Otherwise, the woman has a choice in the matter.

Actually, the implication was that Shogun, thanks to his charming personality and core principles, doesn't get a lot of opportunities to PUT HIS SEMEN into any vaginas.

God, I hate explaining humor, it always kills it.

I understand, but the edit threw me off.

 

[elvis]

The difference is a bacteria will only ever be a bacteria.... the fetus/child will go beyond X number of cells and become a living, breathing, child.. it is a human life, just at an early stage of development

The problem DD is the issue of whether or not one should have an abortion isn't the issue. The actual issue is WHEN DOES GOVERNMENT HAVE THE RIGHT TO CONTROL A PERSON'S BODY?

The RvW court was very specific about the balancing of interests. It was a compromise decision that looked at pregnancy from minute one to week 41, acknowledged that life (and govt's interest) in it, exists on a continuum from pre-embryo to born child. Nothing unborn is a citizen with rights, therefore the "rights" of a zygote were not ever at issue. However, the governmental interest in protecting potential life was deemed to increase as the pregnancy progressed. Personally, I'd agree with that assessment.

And your arbitrary detrmination as to when it is a "child" should no more be imposed upon me, then anyone else could ever force you to support terminating a pregnancy.

Really? Then why can the government choose to lay 2 counts of murder charges against someone who murders a prenant woman?

Thats a good question.

 

[catzmeow]

I've yet to sire a fucking baby because i'm EXTREMELY choosy and cautious about what I stick my dick into.

So, that's the explanation they give for 32-year-old virgins these days?

 

[Newby]

"government" ISN'T terminating a human life... the INDIVIDUAL choosing to terminate a pregnancy is terminating the pregnancy. No one is forcing her to.

Is anyone FORCING you to HAVE an abortion?

No?

Of course not. Because GOVERNMENT does not tell people what to do with their bodies except under the most limited of circumstances.

you use the word "life" like it has some talismanic meaning. We kill live things ALL the time.... we kill bacteria; we kill animals for food and because people choose to; we kill the "enemy" if there is a war...

so the reliance on the term "life" is silly and not relevant to the discussion.

What is relevant to the discussion is that YOUR religious beliefs dictate that you believe it is a "PROTECTABLE" life from the moment of conception. My religion does not.

Given a choice between my own beliefs and the imposition of yours by way of legislation, thakns... but I'll take mine any day of the week.

Interestingly, I've never met anyone so wise that I thought their judgments should be substituted for my own...

And the anti-govt crowd is the first one to yell that GOVERNMENT should tell me what to do with my uterus.

I'd say that's a overreaching and unconstitutional act by the government.

Luckily, the law says so too.... and hopefully one of the five who might endanger that right by virtue of a false means of constitutional constuction, will be replaced over the next four to eight years.

Have you ever wondered why the abortion issue is only politicized in the U.S., Italy and Ireland?

I have. And the answer is religious zealots.

Keep your religion off of my body.

Damn convenient to tie it to religion isn't it? It has nothing to do with religion, it has to do with moral right and wrong. Our society has decided that murder is morally wrong, why aren't you tying that to religion as well and renouncing laws that prohibit murder? Why is it that when it's convenient for you (i.e. you don't agree with it) you can arbitrarily tie some moral right or wrong to religion and then use that as your weapon to fight against it? What makes what you determine as morally right or wrong any better than anyone else? Are you seriously trying to say that it depends on what the morals are founded on? So if someone's moral are founded in their religion then their morals are somehow less significant than someone who founds their morals from some other origin? What gives you the right to decide whose morals are better?

 

[DiamondDave]

As long as IT is a part of my body, the government nor anyone else has no claim over it and no RIGHT to tell me what to do with it. This is a a LEGAL issue and should be purely a legal issue. It's usually the religious freaks that mix up morality with legality by injecting emotions into it that have no place in a legal system. Do you know what objectivity is? It is something taught in college, maybe you should look into it.

Whether it is moral or right has nothing to do with it. Also, as a man - you simply have no say in the matter. You can just state your opinion as our legal system makes possible, but that's - unfortunately for you - it. If you were a woman, what you'd do with your little zygote or fetus would be totally up to you... the legal system would only guarantee you the possibility to terminate the medical condition if you chose so.

There are lots of immoral actions that are not punishable by law nor should they be. You control freaks need to lay the hell off.


Does the fact that men are totally and utterly NOT in control when it comes to these issues give you the willies? Ha ha ha, suck it up because you can't do SHIT about it, sweetheart. As far as this issue goes, this is the woman's world.

Ta-ta!

No.. it is not a part of your body... it is a separate life... it's own DNA signature separate from yours

Just as you don't have a right to terminate a child under your care in any other circumstance, even if that child is not one you want or you feel there is something wrong with the child

Again.. you don't want to deal with the risk and consequences of pregnancy, keep your legs closed

Like they say in the carnivals.. "You pay your money you take your chances"

I really don't care what your opinion is when it comes to my body... so I'll fuck and if I should get pregnant and decide that I am just not ready to have it ... I'll have the damn abortion and you can't do crap about it. And if the likes of you make it illegal, I'll get in my car, drive over to Canada and get it done over there. Understand? Women will have abortions whether you like it or not... by making it illegal, you're making criminals out of them and you're endangering their lives by the practice going underground into the black market.

So there... your opinion is worth NOTHING when it comes to my distinctive lump of DNA.

The above situation is fictional as I have actually no intention of ever having an abortion as I could not live with it and actually am planning to have a baby in a couple of years. That's who I am and that is purely my choice- uninfluenced by anyone else's opinion. But - I'm a strong supporter of others' right to choose and compared to you - I don't judge. The pure arrogance of those are willing to impose their little fucking opinions on lives of others by making choice illegal pisses me the hell off... Judging little pricks - that's exactly what you are...

Yeah, I'm quite passionate about others' imposing their opinions on others... VERY FUCKING PASSIONATE.

And I am quite passionate about protecting innocent life.. whether it be an old person, young person, child, unborn child, etc... and that takes precedent over any personal whim you may have... you see, you simply do not have the right to exercise your choice if it infringes on the rights of others.. and the prime right is the right to life... and yes, a fetus, unborn child, etc is a human life at an early developmental stage

You have a legal choice... whether or not to participate in the action in the first place.... and that is a personal choice that only effects your life... but when there is another human life involved, the equation changes... every human life has the same rights as any other

And yes.. you can drive to canada or use an ice cream scoop or whatever else... just as a murderer can choose to put a meat cleaver in your head or shoot you in the face or strangle you... but we still have our laws and society that makes it wrong in every attempt to take a life of someone else... just as you think an unborn child/fetus is disposable, is right on par with a murderer that thinks you are disposable

I don't judge you for having sex or not having sex or whatever.. that is up to you.. but as in everything else in life, there are consequences to your actions... good or bad (however you see them).... and if you choose to partake in the action that can lead to the creation of another life, you best be ready for all that comes with that

 

[Shogun]

I've yet to sire a fucking baby because i'm EXTREMELY choosy and cautious about what I stick my dick into.

So, that's the explanation they give for 32-year-old virgins these days?

HA! looks like 51% of our population are all virgins then, eh?

 

[catzmeow]

HA! looks like 51% of our population are all virgins then, eh?

Except that 80% support some type of abortion remaining legal. Learn to read a fucking study.

 

[Newby]

And if the parent wishes to kill a newborn (or any other child/life under their care)... right or wrong... let then take the responsibility?

Newborn = already born. It's not a parasitic life at that point and someone else can take it. Next attempt to twist the discussion. This is about fetuses and lumps of cell tissue.

your are making a caveat to your "leave individuals alone and let them make their own choice" ALREADY?!?! you DONT SAY!


Here's an idea: Why don't you excercise your rights to choose whom to fuck in the first place and AVOID the abortion conflict altogether with a little responsibility? Is that too tough? Too much to consider? Womens suffrage didn't happen so that women could murder a fetus. enjoy your personal autonomy AND your personal responsibility. When your lifestyle requires the killing of a genetic human distinction then you might want to re-evaluate what choices, EXACTLY, were once the fuel of the womans rights movement.

Responbility is a dirty word. Whenever you look at all the issues that the left loves to push on everyone else, it always has something to do with taking care of people who have not been responsible for themselves in some way or another. It's a way to get their grubby little hands on everyone's money while trying to pretend that they're only doing what's 'morally' right for 'every' citizen. There's no choice involved when it comes to forcing others to follow what they think is morally right, they have no problem with using legislation to force others into following their morality whatsoever. That's why they have to intertwine abortion and religion so zealously, so they have a 'good' reason to not allow your morals to disrupt their agenda. Their morals are a completely different story, however. It's funny how when you talk about the left and its agenda, hypocrasy is always the word that comes to mind first.

 

[Shogun]

HA! looks like 51% of our population are all virgins then, eh?

Except that 80% support some type of abortion remaining legal. Learn to read a fucking study.

the pendulum still swings, bitch. And that source wasn't a study; it was a poll. learn about fucking research methods.

 

[Neser Boha]

Indeed. NOW you have that option. Perhaps you should consider what exactly the OP is saying about how that WILL change.

What is it saying exactly that will change???

I'm quoting directly:

"With respect to the abortion issue, would you consider yourself to be pro-choice or pro-life?"

5/7-10/09
Pro-Choice: 42 Pro-Life: 51 Mixed/Neither: 2 Don't Know What Terms Mean: 4 Unsure: 1


The margin or error is 3%... that means that it is possible that the difference is much less, considering the 7% that are either unsure, mixed, or whatever... that's all of 10% and possibly larger change... I wouldn't call this poll decisive.

But besides that... the poll also says:

"Do you think abortions should be legal under any circumstances, legal only under certain circumstances, or illegal in all circumstances?"

5/7-10/09
Legal Under Any: 22% Legal Only Under Certain: 53 Illegal In All: 23 Unsure: 2


I don't see much of a change coming... personally. But even if it is.. thank g-d, god, or allah that I live in Europe.

 

[catzmeow]

Tell that to my child support checks I have to give in huge amounts even though I have my children 50% of the time.. and to the love and care I give to my children every fucking day... and to the non-existent free time in my life because I raise my kids as best I can

Yes.. we do not carry the baby for 9 months... but there is no less risk involved in the action for a man, than a woman... it takes 2 to tango, and the responsibility is there for both after the action is done

Dude, cry me a fucking river, I'm a single mom with 3 kids who pays for EVERYTHING, and has my daughter 100% of the time and my son 50% of the time.

It still doesn't compare with carrying a child for 9 months INSIDE OF YOU.

You have no clue. You're just looking for a way to control what women do.

 

[catzmeow]

the pendulum still swings, bitch. And that source wasn't a study; it was a poll. learn about fucking research methods.

You remain incorrect. 80% of the people surveyed suport abortion remaining legal, even though 51% of them classify themselves as pro-life.

I suspect that they fall into the same category as DavidS, Article 15, and myself. We want abortion in the first trimester to remain legal, but for abortions after that point to be illegal.

Way to alienate your ideological allies, dude.

 

[DiamondDave]

Tell that to my child support checks I have to give in huge amounts even though I have my children 50% of the time.. and to the love and care I give to my children every fucking day... and to the non-existent free time in my life because I raise my kids as best I can

Yes.. we do not carry the baby for 9 months... but there is no less risk involved in the action for a man, than a woman... it takes 2 to tango, and the responsibility is there for both after the action is done

Dude, cry me a fucking river, I'm a single mom with 3 kids who pays for EVERYTHING, and has my daughter 100% of the time and my son 50% of the time.

It still doesn't compare with carrying a child for 9 months INSIDE OF YOU.

You have no clue. You're just looking for a way to control what women do.

And I WISH i had my children 100% of the time...

No.... it's not about controlling what women do.. you can screw your brains out... you can roll around in pig shit.. you can stuff your vag with turkey gizzards for all I care... but you protect human life, and a developing human is indeed a life

And would I have had kids if I COULD have given birth in place of my ex..?? You bet your sweet ass I would have

You're just looking for a way to conveniently eliminate consequences for actions.. even if that involves terminating a developing human... well sorry, actions DO have consequences.. you don't want the consequences, don't do the action that brings them about