Progressives And Democrats Must Now Support Medicare For All Unabashedly

[skews13]

For too long pushback against single payer also known as “Medicare for All” was coming from both the right, the center, and the center left. Early on they could use the fact that the polls indicated that most Americans and specifically Republicans did not want it.

Politicians, Republicans and Establishment Democrats alike, want us to believe that there is something fundamentally different between Americans and the rest of the world. Why? Because if we understand that a French, Canadian, British, Swedish, or Danish person's health wants and needs are the same as Americans, then the debate will become a math-based discussion. That math-based conversation would show that the only logical conclusion is that America must migrate to a single-payer Medicare for All health care system.

Progressives and Democrats must now support Medicare for All unabashedly

The crony capitalists are getting ready to lose a war they will never recover from.

 

[Mac1958]

Single Payer and Medicare are not the same. Medicare has a critical free market component.

Just like the term "socialism", I suspect we'll rarely be working with the same definitions here.

 

[Timmy]

Oh boy . Here come the righty goobers who will think it’s a takeover of the medical industry.

 

[SassyIrishLass]

Not going to happen

 

[forkup]

For too long pushback against single payer also known as “Medicare for All” was coming from both the right, the center, and the center left. Early on they could use the fact that the polls indicated that most Americans and specifically Republicans did not want it.

Politicians, Republicans and Establishment Democrats alike, want us to believe that there is something fundamentally different between Americans and the rest of the world. Why? Because if we understand that a French, Canadian, British, Swedish, or Danish person's health wants and needs are the same as Americans, then the debate will become a math-based discussion. That math-based conversation would show that the only logical conclusion is that America must migrate to a single-payer Medicare for All health care system.

Progressives and Democrats must now support Medicare for All unabashedly

The crony capitalists are getting ready to lose a war they will never recover from.

I'm Belgian, my wife is American. We have a great healthcare system were I live. Having said that I have to put in a few things in perspective. In Belgium we have a very cost effective and efficient system but I doubt you can really emulate it in the US. To get a system like that, it's not as simple as simply expanding medicare. We get down cost by making becoming a doctor or nurse or pharmacist something that's affordable without the need to take on debt. We get down cost by letting the government regulate everything from the price and availability of drugs to almost having complete control of the hospitals, taking a health insurance is required by law (although very cheap), we also don't litigate as often if the doctor makes a mistake and if we do the damages involved aren't anywhere near the ones you guys get. In short our approach to healthcare is fundamentally different and would require the public to accept things I'm not sure Americans are capable of accepting.

 

[SassyIrishLass]

For too long pushback against single payer also known as “Medicare for All” was coming from both the right, the center, and the center left. Early on they could use the fact that the polls indicated that most Americans and specifically Republicans did not want it.

Politicians, Republicans and Establishment Democrats alike, want us to believe that there is something fundamentally different between Americans and the rest of the world. Why? Because if we understand that a French, Canadian, British, Swedish, or Danish person's health wants and needs are the same as Americans, then the debate will become a math-based discussion. That math-based conversation would show that the only logical conclusion is that America must migrate to a single-payer Medicare for All health care system.

Progressives and Democrats must now support Medicare for All unabashedly

The crony capitalists are getting ready to lose a war they will never recover from.

I'm Belgian, my wife is American. We have a great healthcare system were I live. Having said that I have to put in a few things in perspective. In Belgium we have a very cost effective and efficient system but I doubt you can really emulate it in the US. To get a system like that, it's not as simple as simply expanding medicare. We get down cost by making becoming a doctor or nurse or pharmacist something that's affordable without the need to take on debt. We get down cost by letting the government regulate everything from the price and availability of drugs to almost having complete control of the hospitals, taking a health insurance is required by law (although very cheap), we also don't litigate as often if the doctor makes a mistake and if we do the damages involved aren't anywhere near the ones you guys get. In short our approach to healthcare is fundamentally different and would require the public to accept things I'm not sure Americans are capable of accepting.

Sounds Socialist

 

[forkup]

For too long pushback against single payer also known as “Medicare for All” was coming from both the right, the center, and the center left. Early on they could use the fact that the polls indicated that most Americans and specifically Republicans did not want it.

Politicians, Republicans and Establishment Democrats alike, want us to believe that there is something fundamentally different between Americans and the rest of the world. Why? Because if we understand that a French, Canadian, British, Swedish, or Danish person's health wants and needs are the same as Americans, then the debate will become a math-based discussion. That math-based conversation would show that the only logical conclusion is that America must migrate to a single-payer Medicare for All health care system.

Progressives and Democrats must now support Medicare for All unabashedly

The crony capitalists are getting ready to lose a war they will never recover from.

I'm Belgian, my wife is American. We have a great healthcare system were I live. Having said that I have to put in a few things in perspective. In Belgium we have a very cost effective and efficient system but I doubt you can really emulate it in the US. To get a system like that, it's not as simple as simply expanding medicare. We get down cost by making becoming a doctor or nurse or pharmacist something that's affordable without the need to take on debt. We get down cost by letting the government regulate everything from the price and availability of drugs to almost having complete control of the hospitals, taking a health insurance is required by law (although very cheap), we also don't litigate as often if the doctor makes a mistake and if we do the damages involved aren't anywhere near the ones you guys get. In short our approach to healthcare is fundamentally different and would require the public to accept things I'm not sure Americans are capable of accepting.

Sounds Socialist

Sass, the only thing I can say having first hand experiences in both systems is that ours gives superior results for about half the cost. If you think putting the label socialist on it makes it inferior you are simply wrong.

 

[FA_Q2]

When have they not?

 

[SassyIrishLass]

For too long pushback against single payer also known as “Medicare for All” was coming from both the right, the center, and the center left. Early on they could use the fact that the polls indicated that most Americans and specifically Republicans did not want it.

Politicians, Republicans and Establishment Democrats alike, want us to believe that there is something fundamentally different between Americans and the rest of the world. Why? Because if we understand that a French, Canadian, British, Swedish, or Danish person's health wants and needs are the same as Americans, then the debate will become a math-based discussion. That math-based conversation would show that the only logical conclusion is that America must migrate to a single-payer Medicare for All health care system.

Progressives and Democrats must now support Medicare for All unabashedly

The crony capitalists are getting ready to lose a war they will never recover from.

I'm Belgian, my wife is American. We have a great healthcare system were I live. Having said that I have to put in a few things in perspective. In Belgium we have a very cost effective and efficient system but I doubt you can really emulate it in the US. To get a system like that, it's not as simple as simply expanding medicare. We get down cost by making becoming a doctor or nurse or pharmacist something that's affordable without the need to take on debt. We get down cost by letting the government regulate everything from the price and availability of drugs to almost having complete control of the hospitals, taking a health insurance is required by law (although very cheap), we also don't litigate as often if the doctor makes a mistake and if we do the damages involved aren't anywhere near the ones you guys get. In short our approach to healthcare is fundamentally different and would require the public to accept things I'm not sure Americans are capable of accepting.

Sounds Socialist

Sass, the only thing I can say having first hand experiences in both systems is that ours gives superior results for about half the cost. If you think putting the label socialist on it makes it inferior you are simply wrong.

Government control is Socialist

 

[Wyatt earp]

My question remains the same, why are Democrats so sick and injury prone???





.

 

[forkup]

For too long pushback against single payer also known as “Medicare for All” was coming from both the right, the center, and the center left. Early on they could use the fact that the polls indicated that most Americans and specifically Republicans did not want it.

Politicians, Republicans and Establishment Democrats alike, want us to believe that there is something fundamentally different between Americans and the rest of the world. Why? Because if we understand that a French, Canadian, British, Swedish, or Danish person's health wants and needs are the same as Americans, then the debate will become a math-based discussion. That math-based conversation would show that the only logical conclusion is that America must migrate to a single-payer Medicare for All health care system.

Progressives and Democrats must now support Medicare for All unabashedly

The crony capitalists are getting ready to lose a war they will never recover from.

I'm Belgian, my wife is American. We have a great healthcare system were I live. Having said that I have to put in a few things in perspective. In Belgium we have a very cost effective and efficient system but I doubt you can really emulate it in the US. To get a system like that, it's not as simple as simply expanding medicare. We get down cost by making becoming a doctor or nurse or pharmacist something that's affordable without the need to take on debt. We get down cost by letting the government regulate everything from the price and availability of drugs to almost having complete control of the hospitals, taking a health insurance is required by law (although very cheap), we also don't litigate as often if the doctor makes a mistake and if we do the damages involved aren't anywhere near the ones you guys get. In short our approach to healthcare is fundamentally different and would require the public to accept things I'm not sure Americans are capable of accepting.

Sounds Socialist

Sass, the only thing I can say having first hand experiences in both systems is that ours gives superior results for about half the cost. If you think putting the label socialist on it makes it inferior you are simply wrong.

Government control is Socialist

Government controls the military, justice, pensions, infrastructure (mostly), etc. We just expanded it to health since we deem that critical to a prosperous society. So I don't see why you keep throwing the term "socialist" around like it's some kind of dirty word that makes you win an argument by invoking it. I replied because the view that people on the left have on European style health care is to simplistic. On the other hand the rights objections to socialized healthcare seems to be based on an irrational fear of anything that has the word "social" in it.

 

[SassyIrishLass]

For too long pushback against single payer also known as “Medicare for All” was coming from both the right, the center, and the center left. Early on they could use the fact that the polls indicated that most Americans and specifically Republicans did not want it.

Politicians, Republicans and Establishment Democrats alike, want us to believe that there is something fundamentally different between Americans and the rest of the world. Why? Because if we understand that a French, Canadian, British, Swedish, or Danish person's health wants and needs are the same as Americans, then the debate will become a math-based discussion. That math-based conversation would show that the only logical conclusion is that America must migrate to a single-payer Medicare for All health care system.

Progressives and Democrats must now support Medicare for All unabashedly

The crony capitalists are getting ready to lose a war they will never recover from.

I'm Belgian, my wife is American. We have a great healthcare system were I live. Having said that I have to put in a few things in perspective. In Belgium we have a very cost effective and efficient system but I doubt you can really emulate it in the US. To get a system like that, it's not as simple as simply expanding medicare. We get down cost by making becoming a doctor or nurse or pharmacist something that's affordable without the need to take on debt. We get down cost by letting the government regulate everything from the price and availability of drugs to almost having complete control of the hospitals, taking a health insurance is required by law (although very cheap), we also don't litigate as often if the doctor makes a mistake and if we do the damages involved aren't anywhere near the ones you guys get. In short our approach to healthcare is fundamentally different and would require the public to accept things I'm not sure Americans are capable of accepting.

Sounds Socialist

Sass, the only thing I can say having first hand experiences in both systems is that ours gives superior results for about half the cost. If you think putting the label socialist on it makes it inferior you are simply wrong.

Government control is Socialist

Government controls the military, justice, pensions, infrastructure (mostly), etc. We just expanded it to health since we deem that critical to a prosperous society. So I don't see why you keep throwing the term "socialist" around like it's some kind of dirty word that makes you win an argument by invoking it. I replied because the view that people on the left have on European style health care is to simplistic. On the other hand the rights objections to socialized healthcare seems to be based on an irrational fear of anything that has the word "social" in it.

Goverment control...they start with oh say healthcare then move onto other areas next thing you know its Venzuela

 

[Maxdeath]

For too long pushback against single payer also known as “Medicare for All” was coming from both the right, the center, and the center left. Early on they could use the fact that the polls indicated that most Americans and specifically Republicans did not want it.

Politicians, Republicans and Establishment Democrats alike, want us to believe that there is something fundamentally different between Americans and the rest of the world. Why? Because if we understand that a French, Canadian, British, Swedish, or Danish person's health wants and needs are the same as Americans, then the debate will become a math-based discussion. That math-based conversation would show that the only logical conclusion is that America must migrate to a single-payer Medicare for All health care system.

Progressives and Democrats must now support Medicare for All unabashedly

The crony capitalists are getting ready to lose a war they will never recover from.

Here again I will point out the basic flaw in Medicare for all or single payer, they both have the same basic flaw but are completely different.

You would first need to convince every American to accept a 50% income tax. That is 50% whether you make ten dollars or ten million. A very hard sell since so many are complaining about the size of their tax cut and the fact it was not permanent. Plus cities and states are trying to sue because of the tax structure so they can raise their taxes.

Could it be done for 48% or even 47%? Possibly, but since we have never tried it before the higher fiqure would be a better but almost impossible sell. As it would be better to give a tax break then try to raise taxes again if they would not cover the cost. In which case I doubt you could convince people to go along with a second increase and we would be stuck with either abandoning the whole idea which would be worse then not implenting it, or we would be pilling massive debt onto an already bad debt situation.

Then you need to consider that it may well be a six month wait to see a specialist and could be up to a year wait for non life threatening surgery. Place that on top of an already short supply of medical professionals, the forecast is the lack will get worse. Then consider that there is already inefficient government and millions of fraud in Medicare and Medicaid. In short an all around fiasco.

 

[skews13]

For too long pushback against single payer also known as “Medicare for All” was coming from both the right, the center, and the center left. Early on they could use the fact that the polls indicated that most Americans and specifically Republicans did not want it.

Politicians, Republicans and Establishment Democrats alike, want us to believe that there is something fundamentally different between Americans and the rest of the world. Why? Because if we understand that a French, Canadian, British, Swedish, or Danish person's health wants and needs are the same as Americans, then the debate will become a math-based discussion. That math-based conversation would show that the only logical conclusion is that America must migrate to a single-payer Medicare for All health care system.

Progressives and Democrats must now support Medicare for All unabashedly

The crony capitalists are getting ready to lose a war they will never recover from.

I'm Belgian, my wife is American. We have a great healthcare system were I live. Having said that I have to put in a few things in perspective. In Belgium we have a very cost effective and efficient system but I doubt you can really emulate it in the US. To get a system like that, it's not as simple as simply expanding medicare. We get down cost by making becoming a doctor or nurse or pharmacist something that's affordable without the need to take on debt. We get down cost by letting the government regulate everything from the price and availability of drugs to almost having complete control of the hospitals, taking a health insurance is required by law (although very cheap), we also don't litigate as often if the doctor makes a mistake and if we do the damages involved aren't anywhere near the ones you guys get. In short our approach to healthcare is fundamentally different and would require the public to accept things I'm not sure Americans are capable of accepting.

Good points, but nothing like enacting such a system will come without making mistakes at first. The difference in our system is we are a democracy with a representative form of government.

Our current for profit system costs more than $34 trillion as it is now, and still lags behind every other industrialized nation in the world in the quality of care.

Recent studies done by those who are against it show a Medicare for all system actually comes in at $32 trillion, a full $2 trillion cheaper, which not only covers all Americans, but frees companies of having to provide coverage for employees, saving hundreds of billions of dollars, and frees up employees pay checks from having to pay premiums and deductibles, allowing hundreds of billions of dollars to be poured into the economy as discretionary income they would not have otherwise had, which creates millions of jobs.

The only negative to the system is thousands of middle managers lose their jobs in administrative rolls in the healthcare companies, and CEO bonuses will be smaller or gone altogther.

Most people don't find either to be a negative.

 

[forkup]

I'm Belgian, my wife is American. We have a great healthcare system were I live. Having said that I have to put in a few things in perspective. In Belgium we have a very cost effective and efficient system but I doubt you can really emulate it in the US. To get a system like that, it's not as simple as simply expanding medicare. We get down cost by making becoming a doctor or nurse or pharmacist something that's affordable without the need to take on debt. We get down cost by letting the government regulate everything from the price and availability of drugs to almost having complete control of the hospitals, taking a health insurance is required by law (although very cheap), we also don't litigate as often if the doctor makes a mistake and if we do the damages involved aren't anywhere near the ones you guys get. In short our approach to healthcare is fundamentally different and would require the public to accept things I'm not sure Americans are capable of accepting.

Sounds Socialist

Sass, the only thing I can say having first hand experiences in both systems is that ours gives superior results for about half the cost. If you think putting the label socialist on it makes it inferior you are simply wrong.

Government control is Socialist

Government controls the military, justice, pensions, infrastructure (mostly), etc. We just expanded it to health since we deem that critical to a prosperous society. So I don't see why you keep throwing the term "socialist" around like it's some kind of dirty word that makes you win an argument by invoking it. I replied because the view that people on the left have on European style health care is to simplistic. On the other hand the rights objections to socialized healthcare seems to be based on an irrational fear of anything that has the word "social" in it.

Goverment control...they start with oh say healthcare then move onto other areas next thing you know its Venzuela

Europe not to mention almost all major industrialized nations have had socialized healthcare for 50 plus years. Very few of those have experienced problems related to the ones in Venezuela. On the other hand the ENTIRE world went into a recession because American banks ( read Capitalism) were very lacks in the extension of credit causing a giant bubble to burst in 2008. By the way, here you are invoking another right wing straw man, invoking Venezuela as a failure of Socialism . I bet that you don't even know what went wrong in Venezuela.

 

[SassyIrishLass]

Sounds Socialist

Sass, the only thing I can say having first hand experiences in both systems is that ours gives superior results for about half the cost. If you think putting the label socialist on it makes it inferior you are simply wrong.

Government control is Socialist

Government controls the military, justice, pensions, infrastructure (mostly), etc. We just expanded it to health since we deem that critical to a prosperous society. So I don't see why you keep throwing the term "socialist" around like it's some kind of dirty word that makes you win an argument by invoking it. I replied because the view that people on the left have on European style health care is to simplistic. On the other hand the rights objections to socialized healthcare seems to be based on an irrational fear of anything that has the word "social" in it.

Goverment control...they start with oh say healthcare then move onto other areas next thing you know its Venzuela

Europe not to mention almost all major industrialized nations have had socialized healthcare for 50 plus years. Very few of those have experienced problems related to the ones in Venezuela. On the other hand the ENTIRE world went into a recession because American banks ( read Capitalism) were very lacks in the extension of credits causing a giant bubble to burst in 2008. By the way, here you are invoking another right wing straw man, invoking Venezuela as a failure of Socialism . I bet that you don't even know what went wrong in Venezuela.

Well if you like Socialism so much head on over to Europe. I don't and won't. I've seen first hand government interventon in healthcare with Obunglescare.....fuck that shit

You're going to have an uphill battle convincing any conservative to embrace socialist healthcare ...or socialist anything. Save the "but the military is socialism" shit.

 

[forkup]

For too long pushback against single payer also known as “Medicare for All” was coming from both the right, the center, and the center left. Early on they could use the fact that the polls indicated that most Americans and specifically Republicans did not want it.

Politicians, Republicans and Establishment Democrats alike, want us to believe that there is something fundamentally different between Americans and the rest of the world. Why? Because if we understand that a French, Canadian, British, Swedish, or Danish person's health wants and needs are the same as Americans, then the debate will become a math-based discussion. That math-based conversation would show that the only logical conclusion is that America must migrate to a single-payer Medicare for All health care system.

Progressives and Democrats must now support Medicare for All unabashedly

The crony capitalists are getting ready to lose a war they will never recover from.

I'm Belgian, my wife is American. We have a great healthcare system were I live. Having said that I have to put in a few things in perspective. In Belgium we have a very cost effective and efficient system but I doubt you can really emulate it in the US. To get a system like that, it's not as simple as simply expanding medicare. We get down cost by making becoming a doctor or nurse or pharmacist something that's affordable without the need to take on debt. We get down cost by letting the government regulate everything from the price and availability of drugs to almost having complete control of the hospitals, taking a health insurance is required by law (although very cheap), we also don't litigate as often if the doctor makes a mistake and if we do the damages involved aren't anywhere near the ones you guys get. In short our approach to healthcare is fundamentally different and would require the public to accept things I'm not sure Americans are capable of accepting.

Good points, but nothing like enacting such a system will come without making mistakes at first. The difference in our system is we are a democracy with a representative form of government.

Our current for profit system costs more than $34 trillion as it is now, and still lags behind every other industrialized nation in the world in the quality of care.

Recent studies done by those who are against it show a Medicare for all system actually comes in at $32 trillion, a full $2 trillion cheaper, which not only covers all Americans, but frees companies of having to provide coverage for employees, saving hundreds of billions of dollars, and frees up employees pay checks from having to pay premiums and deductibles, allowing hundreds of billions of dollars to be poured into the economy as discretionary income they would not have otherwise had, which creates millions of jobs.

The only negative to the system is thousands of middle managers lose their jobs in administrative rolls in the healthcare companies, and CEO bonuses will be smaller or gone altogther.

Most people don't find either to be a negative.

democracy with a representative form of government.

So do we, I live in a parliamentary Democracy. I just wanted to point out that Americans have some pet peeves that in my opinion would make it prohibitively difficult to get to socialized healthcare. I don't doubt it would be better but I just don't see the average American agreeing to not litigate medical malpractice. Or any university capable of giving a degree in the medical profession for a couple of thousand a year, or the government going to the doctors and saying that they have to prescribe generic medicine when available, etc. The reasons that our system is cheaper, more efficient and high quality are highly complex.

 

[Timmy]

My question remains the same, why are Democrats so sick and injury prone???





.

Everyone gets sick or injured at some point .

Here’s my question: what’s the conservative plan ?

 

[forkup]

Sass, the only thing I can say having first hand experiences in both systems is that ours gives superior results for about half the cost. If you think putting the label socialist on it makes it inferior you are simply wrong.

Government control is Socialist

Government controls the military, justice, pensions, infrastructure (mostly), etc. We just expanded it to health since we deem that critical to a prosperous society. So I don't see why you keep throwing the term "socialist" around like it's some kind of dirty word that makes you win an argument by invoking it. I replied because the view that people on the left have on European style health care is to simplistic. On the other hand the rights objections to socialized healthcare seems to be based on an irrational fear of anything that has the word "social" in it.

Goverment control...they start with oh say healthcare then move onto other areas next thing you know its Venzuela

Europe not to mention almost all major industrialized nations have had socialized healthcare for 50 plus years. Very few of those have experienced problems related to the ones in Venezuela. On the other hand the ENTIRE world went into a recession because American banks ( read Capitalism) were very lacks in the extension of credits causing a giant bubble to burst in 2008. By the way, here you are invoking another right wing straw man, invoking Venezuela as a failure of Socialism . I bet that you don't even know what went wrong in Venezuela.

Well if you like Socialism so much head on over to Europe. I don't and won't. I've seen first hand government interventon in healthcare with Obunglescare.....fuck that shit

You're going to have an uphill battle convincing any conservative to embrace socialist healthcare ...or socialist anything. Save the "but the military is socialism" shit.

Lol I live in Europe already. I know it's an uphill battle to convince Americans that the world wouldn't end if they would take profit out of healthcare, that was after all my original response. I will just leave you with this tough. If Obamacare sucked so bad why, when offered the opportunity, wasn't congress capable of getting rid of it, or suggest anything better? It seems to me that you don't like something but are incapable of improving on it.

 

[Timmy]

Sass, the only thing I can say having first hand experiences in both systems is that ours gives superior results for about half the cost. If you think putting the label socialist on it makes it inferior you are simply wrong.

Government control is Socialist

Government controls the military, justice, pensions, infrastructure (mostly), etc. We just expanded it to health since we deem that critical to a prosperous society. So I don't see why you keep throwing the term "socialist" around like it's some kind of dirty word that makes you win an argument by invoking it. I replied because the view that people on the left have on European style health care is to simplistic. On the other hand the rights objections to socialized healthcare seems to be based on an irrational fear of anything that has the word "social" in it.

Goverment control...they start with oh say healthcare then move onto other areas next thing you know its Venzuela

Europe not to mention almost all major industrialized nations have had socialized healthcare for 50 plus years. Very few of those have experienced problems related to the ones in Venezuela. On the other hand the ENTIRE world went into a recession because American banks ( read Capitalism) were very lacks in the extension of credits causing a giant bubble to burst in 2008. By the way, here you are invoking another right wing straw man, invoking Venezuela as a failure of Socialism . I bet that you don't even know what went wrong in Venezuela.

Well if you like Socialism so much head on over to Europe. I don't and won't. I've seen first hand government interventon in healthcare with Obunglescare.....fuck that shit

You're going to have an uphill battle convincing any conservative to embrace socialist healthcare ...or socialist anything. Save the "but the military is socialism" shit.

It’s not socialism . The private market would still exist . This would give access to those who can’t get into the private system .

Which is what happens now. But with all the middle man BS driving up costs.