Putting the Catholic Church in my rear view window...

[Meriweather]

The Catholic church thinks the flood actually happened.

Snort.

 

[ding]

So Jesus died for our sins, so now we can sin all we want because that bill is paid.

No. With Jesus we have the second model. Paul spoke of Adam being the first model of how mankind might live, choosing disobedience over obedience. Jesus is the second, choosing obedience over disobedience. "Sinning all we want" takes us back to Adam, not forward with Jesus.

But Jesus died for our sins, didn't he? So that bill should be paid already.

Actually he died because of our sins.

We hadn't been born yet to sin.

What difference does that make?

Everyone who has ever sinned or will ever sin orchestrated the death of Christ. While it may be convenient to believe Christ died for your sins, the correct way of looking at it is that Christ died because of your sins.

It’s illogical to say that I’m responsible for something that happened 2000 years ago.

Not from the Catholic viewpoint it isn't. From the Catholic viewpoint everything was created through and for Christ. That you refuse to share in His suffering and refuse to accept your blame for His suffering is one of the things keeping you from progressing into the best version of yourself. So the only one you are hurting is you. Have at it.

You're a Catholic, hmmm... It's way too stupid to say I'm responsible for something that happened 2000 years ago, unless you're saying that it was in one of my past lives, which you're not.
So you believe in all the fairy tales in the Bible, and they aren't allegorical to you. lol.

Not a good Catholic I accept accountability for Christ's death and share in His suffering. What you decide to do is on you.

It's because you see the allegorical accounts of ancient man as fairy instead of answers to the origin questions, historical events and wisdom that you miss out on knowledge, Taz. Feel free to keep seeing them as fairy tales. I couldn't care less,, it only hurts you and those you love.

The Catholic church thinks the flood actually happened. So either you do to, or your a faker/liar.

Nope. You got that wrong. Strike one. Did you get that from some militant atheist website which you surf every waking moment (did I just misstate you like you misstated the Catholic Church)? Silly me.

So please try again, dummy.

 

[ding]

But Jesus died for our sins, didn't he? So that bill should be paid already.

What bill? Adam's way pointed to one direction for living life. Jesus' way pointed to another direction of living life. Neither Adam nor Jesus is living our life, we are. Just like Adam and Jesus we need to choose a direction.

Did Jesus die on the cross for our sins, yes or no.

No. He died because of our sins.

Jesus died, because god loves all mankind (=every single human being) more than anything else.

Is that why god drowned nearly everyone with his flood?

You read for confirmation of bias, Taz. What could possibly go wrong with that?

Too bad your church agrees with me.

Can you prove it, Taz?

 

[ding]

I believe the sanctity of marriage is predicated on the splitting of spirit into it's male and female halves. That there is only spirit. That spirit contains the essence of femininity and masculinity. And that male and female halves only exist apart in the material world. That marriage is the joining of the two halves that were split apart. Maybe if more people understood this there would be less bad marriages in the first place.

I agree - but nevertheless grey are all theories. I am a so called "remarried Catholic". To leave my first wife was necessary, the divorce unevitable - and to find my second wife was a wonder. She had been in a very similiar situation than I had been and so we did not need many words to understand each other, although we are both chatterboxes.

I make no judgments either way.

¿Judgement?

Yes.

I don't know what kind of answer this is - but the "discussion" within the Catholic Church about "remarriage" is anyway one of the most stupid irreal discussions the world ever had seen. I am a so called "remarried Catholic". And what anyone in the world thinks about me or anyone else, who is remarried, is for me personally without any relevance for anything. Everything what Catholics and others discuss in this direction is in my eyes only a stupid nonsense, which helps no one. Sure is it good to be married "forever" = until the partner dies. But philosophically is for example to die and to live the same. Within life we are surrounded from death. And in general exists by the way no one, who is really a "remarried Catholic", because the Catholic Church marries no one, who was once married. "Remarriage" exists only because people think it's the same to be politically married for a community of people (accepted to be married from other people) and to be spiritually married in the eyes of god (accepted to be married from our father in heaven). You can see this difference by the way very clear in the father of the Lord Joseph, who decided with the help of god to marry Mary and not to take care that Mary was pregnant from someone else - what was not compatible with the rules in his time and place of history.

Did you remarry with a guy this time?

No problems, Nazi? What about to live the next two weeks without alcohol and drugs?

I don't drink or do drugs, that shit is for kikes.

And whatelse is the background for your totally stupid, absurde and agressive, senseless behavior?

I love Jews. Really.

What you intend for evil, God is using for good.

Just having a little fun with zaan, he's such an idiot, lol.

You mean like when you use the phrase "chimp out?" You do that from a place of love, Taz?

 

[Cecilie1200]

I met someone last night.

It was our first date, but something clicked between us and I think she may be the person I spend the rest of my life with.

But, even if it doesn't end up being her, someone will come along eventually because I'm on three dating services and I'm searching very diligently because I hate being alone.

So, it's time to put the Catholic Church in my rear view window.

Now you can say, get an annulment. The Catholic Church offers that.

But I think it's total bullshit to ask the Catholic Church to say I wasn't really married to a woman I spent thirty years with and is the mother of my three children.

I looked into the Episcopalians.

Being an Episcopalian would be like going to a church that looks Catholic in every way, except the priests don't really care if you even believe in God so long as you put money in the basket.

Or I could just not go to any church on Sunday and work things out just between me and God.

Please don't come on this thread and tell me this isn't really a problem.

It's a problem for me.

I've been Catholic all my life and giving up Catholicism would be worse than giving up my right arm.

Okay, I'm not Catholic, so I'm kinda confused as to why you have to completely give up your church and your religious belief system over this. Yes, I know the Catholic Church officially opposes divorce and remarriage. So does my church, but mine certainly isn't going to bar anyone from attending church over it.

My feeling is, if you really must attend another church over this, you should look at their doctrinal positions - and how faithfully they actually practice them - and choose the one that comes closest to the truth as you perceive it.

 

[Cecilie1200]

The problem with taking this issue to the forum is that only a person who takes Catholicism seriously would understand the choices I'm faced with.

If you boil it down to terms that a priest would be too scared to tell you, the Catholic answer is that if a Catholic leaves the Church, with full knowledge that the Catholic Church is the true Church, there is no hope that person will go to heaven.

My two choices then are this:

A lifetime of happiness with a woman I love -- then an eternity in hell; or

A lifetime of misery for the next thirty years or so -- then an eternity in heaven.

I can't help you with the serious Catholicism issue, since I'm not Catholic. I do take my Protestant religion at least as seriously as you take your Catholicism, though, so I can understand the shape and nature of your dilemma, even if I don't comprehend the details.

You told us the "Catholic answer", but I do have to ask if that's YOUR answer. Do YOU really believe that the Catholic Church is the only possible road to Heaven, and that all the non-Catholic believers in the world are going to Hell?

 

[Cecilie1200]

If it is a personal issue why bring it to the forum. What is your motive?

is changing churches a moral issue? is changing ones beliefs a moral issue? is changing religions a moral issue? The issue may be over analyzing the situation. When given two choices, then only one can be chosen and the person has to live with it or let it destroy that person. Got to love choice.

I think he is asking for other people who have been in his position. You have to feel right in yourself.

Oftentimes, a different perspective on things can lead to epiphanies we can't achieve on our own. In fact, I believe this to be one of the main reasons the Bible instructs us to "foresake not the gathering together" etc.

 

[esalla]

I met someone last night.

It was our first date, but something clicked between us and I think she may be the person I spend the rest of my life with.

But, even if it doesn't end up being her, someone will come along eventually because I'm on three dating services and I'm searching very diligently because I hate being alone.

So, it's time to put the Catholic Church in my rear view window.

Now you can say, get an annulment. The Catholic Church offers that.

But I think it's total bullshit to ask the Catholic Church to say I wasn't really married to a woman I spent thirty years with and is the mother of my three children.

I looked into the Episcopalians.

Being an Episcopalian would be like going to a church that looks Catholic in every way, except the priests don't really care if you even believe in God so long as you put money in the basket.

Or I could just not go to any church on Sunday and work things out just between me and God.

Please don't come on this thread and tell me this isn't really a problem.

It's a problem for me.

I've been Catholic all my life and giving up Catholicism would be worse than giving up my right arm.

Jesus was not a Catholic or Episcopalian. How you live your life and what you believe is what is important, not what you do on Sunday. I was raised a Catholic and stopped going to church a few years after marring a Catholic wife. Jesus still fills my life with power and glory and I can not get lost as he guides my every step. So you might want to focus on being a Christian and not on a church subtitle. I am sure that you already know that there are both Catholics and Episcopalians who will not hold the door for a pregnant woman but as you say know that they are forgiven because they pay off the child molesting priest

exactly my point.

I know atheists that are better Christians than some Christians I know

While that is true the atheist that you know believe that they are the result of pond scum mutating as Darwin speculated without ever having seen the genius of how DNA works

No joy in being an atheist pond scum

I don't know any pond scum.

I do know quite a few wonderful people though.

And you like to assume a lot don't you?

A person that does not believe in some all powerful mystical being is not necessarily an evolutionist.

Many people think how we got here isn't that important and all that matters is how they behave while they are here.

Some people can admit they don't know or understand and don't feel the need to make up magical beings in order to provide answers

Again kid Darwin speculated that people are descendant from pond scum, literally. Now the mystical thing is life creating itself from nothing in Darwins magical mystical pond. God creates us just as we create things now and when we move to another planet we will create things for that planet and God is proven.

Darwins pond scum poem

My dear Hooker,

... It is often said that all the conditions for the first production of a living organism are now present, which could ever have been present.

But if (and oh what a big if) we could conceive in some warm little pond with all sorts of ammonia and phosphoric salts, - light, heat, electricity &c. present, that a protein compound was chemically formed, ready to undergo still more complex changes, at the present day such matter wd be instantly devoured, or absorbed, which would not have been the case before living creatures were formed.

So enjoy being pond scum

 

[BS Filter]

Find a church that teaches the Bible, not religion. If they act like Jesus freaks, it's a good thing usually. If they bring out the snakes after the first worship song, you're in the wrong church.

That option is unavailable to me.

My dislike for the evangelical churches is intense, probably because of the thoughtless way they tell a Catholic like me that I'm an idolater who is going to hell.

Also, the concept that faith alone saves is a dangerous error because it discourages such notions as obeying the commandments and giving money to charity, and the concept that one is saved by one altar call is dangerous because it denies the truth that one's spiritual development is a struggle that ends only at the moment of death.

The Episcopalians are the outer limit of how far I'm willing to plunge into the Protestant world.

Their priests dress like Catholic priests, their Masses our similar to our Masses, and their Eucharist is the same as ours -- though illegitimate according to the Catholic Church.

The Episcopalians are, however, moral relativists who will openly admit they're not really sure if Christianity is true. For me, the idea of showing up to Mass every Sunday for a religion you're not sure of doesn't make any sense at all. Why not sleep in?

It seems that the purpose of Episcopalianism is to give fallen away Catholics a soft landing for awhile before arriving at the ultimate end of complete lack of belief. And then, after you do reach this state of non-belief, you are still welcome to attend Mass on Sunday and go on behaving as if you believe, with everyone knowing and accepting that you really don't.

And while it might be a comfort to many to attend familiar rituals in familiar surroundings, I am a person who must actually believe in what I'm doing and could never believe in the watered-down Catholicism of the Episcopalian Church.

You believe in your own works for salvation. You're never going to be good enough. This is the problem with the catholic sect. This is why Luther broke away. The Bible clearly teaches that Salvation is through believing in Jesus, period. Works are good, yes. You will be rewarded, but your eternal life is in Christ, not works. This is where the Catholic church has gone off the rails.

 

[zaangalewa]

... Just having a little fun with zaan, he's such an idiot, lol.

Sure I'm hopefully an idiot, misanthrop, because I see in you an extremely dangerous anti-semite and Nazi. But my experience with you tells me unfortunatelly something else.

 

[Taz]

But Jesus died for our sins, didn't he? So that bill should be paid already.

What bill? Adam's way pointed to one direction for living life. Jesus' way pointed to another direction of living life. Neither Adam nor Jesus is living our life, we are. Just like Adam and Jesus we need to choose a direction.

Did Jesus die on the cross for our sins, yes or no.

No. He died because of our sins.

Jesus died, because god loves all mankind (=every single human being) more than anything else.

Is that why god drowned nearly everyone with his flood?

You read for confirmation of bias, Taz. What could possibly go wrong with that?

Too bad your church agrees with me.

Can you prove it, Taz?

Sure, right after you give me 3 examples of moral laws.

 

[Taz]

... Just having a little fun with zaan, he's such an idiot, lol.

Sure I'm hopefully an idiot, misanthrop, because I see in you an extremely dangerous anti-semite and Nazi. But my experience with you tells me unfortunatelly something else.

You’re just upset that I exposed your bullshit. Too bad for you.

 

[ding]

But Jesus died for our sins, didn't he? So that bill should be paid already.

What bill? Adam's way pointed to one direction for living life. Jesus' way pointed to another direction of living life. Neither Adam nor Jesus is living our life, we are. Just like Adam and Jesus we need to choose a direction.

Did Jesus die on the cross for our sins, yes or no.

No. He died because of our sins.

Jesus died, because god loves all mankind (=every single human being) more than anything else.

Is that why god drowned nearly everyone with his flood?

You read for confirmation of bias, Taz. What could possibly go wrong with that?

Too bad your church agrees with me.

Can you prove it, Taz?

Sure, right after you give me 3 examples of moral laws.

Every position you have ever argued for. Pick three.

 

[Taz]

But Jesus died for our sins, didn't he? So that bill should be paid already.

What bill? Adam's way pointed to one direction for living life. Jesus' way pointed to another direction of living life. Neither Adam nor Jesus is living our life, we are. Just like Adam and Jesus we need to choose a direction.

Did Jesus die on the cross for our sins, yes or no.

No. He died because of our sins.

Jesus died, because god loves all mankind (=every single human being) more than anything else.

Is that why god drowned nearly everyone with his flood?

You read for confirmation of bias, Taz. What could possibly go wrong with that?

Too bad your church agrees with me.

Can you prove it, Taz?

Sure, right after you give me 3 examples of moral laws.

Every position you have ever argued for. Pick three.

It's ok, I'll wait.

 

[BreezeWood]

Find a church that teaches the Bible, not religion. If they act like Jesus freaks, it's a good thing usually. If they bring out the snakes after the first worship song, you're in the wrong church.

That option is unavailable to me.

My dislike for the evangelical churches is intense, probably because of the thoughtless way they tell a Catholic like me that I'm an idolater who is going to hell.

Also, the concept that faith alone saves is a dangerous error because it discourages such notions as obeying the commandments and giving money to charity, and the concept that one is saved by one altar call is dangerous because it denies the truth that one's spiritual development is a struggle that ends only at the moment of death.

The Episcopalians are the outer limit of how far I'm willing to plunge into the Protestant world.

Their priests dress like Catholic priests, their Masses our similar to our Masses, and their Eucharist is the same as ours -- though illegitimate according to the Catholic Church.

The Episcopalians are, however, moral relativists who will openly admit they're not really sure if Christianity is true. For me, the idea of showing up to Mass every Sunday for a religion you're not sure of doesn't make any sense at all. Why not sleep in?

It seems that the purpose of Episcopalianism is to give fallen away Catholics a soft landing for awhile before arriving at the ultimate end of complete lack of belief. And then, after you do reach this state of non-belief, you are still welcome to attend Mass on Sunday and go on behaving as if you believe, with everyone knowing and accepting that you really don't.

And while it might be a comfort to many to attend familiar rituals in familiar surroundings, I am a person who must actually believe in what I'm doing and could never believe in the watered-down Catholicism of the Episcopalian Church.

You believe in your own works for salvation. You're never going to be good enough. This is the problem with the catholic sect. This is why Luther broke away. The Bible clearly teaches that Salvation is through believing in Jesus, period. Works are good, yes. You will be rewarded, but your eternal life is in Christ, not works. This is where the Catholic church has gone off the rails.

.

The Bible clearly teaches that Salvation is through believing in Jesus, period.

.
actually that may be what they wrote in the 4th century composing your book and when the christian bible no longer exists the forgeries and fallacies will disappear with it - not so the prescribed religion to triumph through works over sin to attain remission - will remain for eternity.

for those having sinned.

 

[BS Filter]

Find a church that teaches the Bible, not religion. If they act like Jesus freaks, it's a good thing usually. If they bring out the snakes after the first worship song, you're in the wrong church.

That option is unavailable to me.

My dislike for the evangelical churches is intense, probably because of the thoughtless way they tell a Catholic like me that I'm an idolater who is going to hell.

Also, the concept that faith alone saves is a dangerous error because it discourages such notions as obeying the commandments and giving money to charity, and the concept that one is saved by one altar call is dangerous because it denies the truth that one's spiritual development is a struggle that ends only at the moment of death.

The Episcopalians are the outer limit of how far I'm willing to plunge into the Protestant world.

Their priests dress like Catholic priests, their Masses our similar to our Masses, and their Eucharist is the same as ours -- though illegitimate according to the Catholic Church.

The Episcopalians are, however, moral relativists who will openly admit they're not really sure if Christianity is true. For me, the idea of showing up to Mass every Sunday for a religion you're not sure of doesn't make any sense at all. Why not sleep in?

It seems that the purpose of Episcopalianism is to give fallen away Catholics a soft landing for awhile before arriving at the ultimate end of complete lack of belief. And then, after you do reach this state of non-belief, you are still welcome to attend Mass on Sunday and go on behaving as if you believe, with everyone knowing and accepting that you really don't.

And while it might be a comfort to many to attend familiar rituals in familiar surroundings, I am a person who must actually believe in what I'm doing and could never believe in the watered-down Catholicism of the Episcopalian Church.

You believe in your own works for salvation. You're never going to be good enough. This is the problem with the catholic sect. This is why Luther broke away. The Bible clearly teaches that Salvation is through believing in Jesus, period. Works are good, yes. You will be rewarded, but your eternal life is in Christ, not works. This is where the Catholic church has gone off the rails.

.

The Bible clearly teaches that Salvation is through believing in Jesus, period.

.
actually that may be what they wrote in the 4th century composing your book and when the christian bible no longer exists the forgeries and fallacies will disappear with it - not so the prescribed religion to triumph through works over sin to attain remission - will remain for eternity.

for those having sinned.

So you believe works remit sin? How does that work?

 

[Meriweather]

You believe in your own works for salvation. You're never going to be good enough. This is the problem with the catholic sect.

Again, a non-Catholic telling Catholics what we "really" believe.

 

[BS Filter]

You believe in your own works for salvation. You're never going to be good enough. This is the problem with the catholic sect.

Again, a non-Catholic telling Catholics what we "really" believe.

Then tell me how Catholics are saved.

 

[Taz]

You believe in your own works for salvation. You're never going to be good enough. This is the problem with the catholic sect.

Again, a non-Catholic telling Catholics what we "really" believe.

You hate homos.

 

[Meriweather]

Then tell me how Catholics are saved.

Hardly ever hear the word "Saved" in the Catholic Church. "Redemption" and "Redeemed" are more in the Catholic vocabulary. And, of course, the familiar line of, "He is our life and our salvation." Eternal life is God's gift to us. We are on the path of that right now, and it will continue on into the afterlife. We follow The Way Jesus taught--discern the will of God and follow it/do it. That is the Way of Salvation. Jesus is the Way, so Jesus is our life and our Salvation. He redeemed us.