Question about Noah.

[The Irish Ram]

Hollie's Folly:
The Koran had no such tales and fables of Arks. Because the Koran usus the perfection of your corrupted religion, we must dismiss the bibles as flawed inventions of man.

 

[Hollie]

Hollie's Folly:
The Koran had no such tales and fables of Arks. Because the Koran usus the perfection of your corrupted religion, we must dismiss the bibles as flawed inventions of man.

It's true.

Your holy text of the Koran has no inventions of Arks and talking snakes.

I see you're still unwilling to admit to your obvious fraud and lies regarding the phony "quotes" you stole from your creation ministries.

I suppose you don't see fraud and lies as necessarily corrupt and immoral when performed in furtherance of your extremist beliefs.

Such are the dangers of cults.

 

[The Irish Ram]

Hollie's Folly:
The Koran had no such tales and fables of Arks. Because the Koran usus the perfection of your corrupted religion, we must dismiss the bibles as flawed inventions of man.

 

[Hollie]

I though we might revisit the post wherein you hoped to perpetrate your first fraud and then we'll move on to the second. From there, we can review your attempt at fraud with the Fred Hoyle "quote" that makes its rounds among your extremist creation ministries.

So then, let's review the first of your frauds and bald faced lies, shall we?

You "quoted":

Francis Crick, winner of the Nobel Prize in Biology:
"An honest man, armed with the knowledge available to us now, could only state that in some sense, the origin of life appears at the moment to be almost a miracle, so many are the conditions which would have had to be satisfied to get in going"

To which I responded:

I'm afraid you're just another dishonest fundamentalist hack.
It's unfortunate that you alleged Christians are so intent on trying to force your beliefs on others that you don't care a whit about honesty, integrity or facts.

Your phony "quote" referencing Francis Crick is a staple among the worst of the lies and falsehoods that are maintained by christian charlatans and fundie creation ministries.

So congratulations. You have chosen to be an accomplice to fraud, so you're as much a liar and a fraud as the fundie creation ministries you promote with your fraud.

From there, I hoped to educate you regarding what lies are and why lies are wrong. I gave you the complete "quote" from Francis Crick that included the material you chose to edit, parse and delete in the perpetration of your fraud and your lies:

Quote Mine Project Miscellaneous

Quote #74

"An honest man, armed with all the knowledge available to us now, could only state that, in some sense, the origin of life appears at the moment to be almost a miracle." (Francis Crick, Life Itself, Its Origin and Nature, 1981, p. 88)

Again there is an unmarked deletion, this time at the end, following right after "miracle,":


" . . . so many are the conditions which would have had to have been satisfied to get it going. But this should not be taken to imply that there are good reasons to believe that it could not have started on the earth by a perfectly reasonable sequence of fairly ordinary chemical reactions. The plain fact is that the time available was too long, the many microenvironments on the earth's surface too diverse, the various chemical possibilities too numerous and our own knowledge and imagination too feeble to allow us to be able to unravel exactly how it might or might not have happened such a long time ago, especially as we have no experimental evidence from that era to check our ideas against."

Crick's book is about his proposition that life on Earth may have been the result of "directed panspermia." It should be noted that, in the book, he assumes that the aliens who he posits might be "seeding" the universe are, themselves, the product of evolution. In this quote, Crick is simply pointing out how, in the absence of evidence, the appearance of life on Earth might seem like a miracle. But he specifically admits that abiogenesis may have occurred on Earth as a result of ordinary chemical processes that require no resort to outside intelligence. Leaving out that part of it, by cutting off what immediately follows, is deeply dishonest.

- J. (catshark) Pieret


Wow. How about that. Your phony, edited, parsed and altered "quote" was entirely different that what Crick had intended to convey.

In terms of degree, how dishonest, deceitful and, well, sleazy is it that you purposefully edited, parsed and altered the comments in order to promote your extremist beliefs?

 

[The Irish Ram]

As you pointed out in Hollie's Folly, my religion is the other one....


As for your comment below, on your perfected Qur'an mentioning Noah in passing:

And no, your holy text of the Koran only references the Noah tale and fable.

You are wrong yet again:

The Story of Noah’s Ark in the Holy Qur’an

A Mughal miniature of Noah’s Ark in the collection of the Freer Gallery of Art, Smithsonian Institution, Washington, D.C.

Prophets are the messengers of Allah who came from time to time to guide mankind to the way of Allah, the path of righteousness. Amongst the many who came as guides and warners to the people, Prophet Noah (Alaihisalam) [1] was one of them. He lived long before the time of our Holy Prophet Muhammad (Salallahu alaihi wasalam), the last of the prophets. [2]

God appointed Noah as the prophet for his people, so as to guide them to the right path and turn them away from their evil ways. The Holy Qur’an tells us the story of Prophet Noah and his people in a number of suras [3], namely sura 57 (Nuh), sura 11 (Hud), and sura 23 (al-Mu’minun), and many ayats [4] therein. It tells us of the strong faith which the Prophet had in Almighty God and about the final destruction of those who ignored the Divine Message.

Commanding Prophet Noah to warn his people, God said:

“Warn your people before there comes upon them a grievous penalty.” — Holy Qur’an, 57:61

Obeying the command of God, Prophet Noah went to his people and said:

“I have come to you with a clear warning that you worship none but God. Verily I fear for you the penalty of a grievous day.” — Holy Qur’an, 11:25-26

The chiefs fearing they would lose their power and authority over the people they ruled, did not approve of what Prophet Noah was preaching and sought to detract the people from the True Path. They argued with the Prophet saying:

“We see nothing special in you except as a man like ourselves. Nor do we see any who have followed you but those who are the meanest amongst us and immature in judgment. Nor do we see in you any excellence over us; in fact we think you are a liar.” — Holy Qur’an, 11:27

Prophet Noah was not perturbed by their derogatory remarks and continued his divine mission purposefully. He called upon his people in a very polite and loving manner to mend their ways. He also warned them of the grievous consequences which would follow if they continued to worship the false gods and lead an immoral life. Assuring them that he was not seeking any wealth or power or favours from them, he said:

“And O my people! I ask you for no wealth in return: my reward is from none but God.” — Holy Qur’an, 11:29

But the chiefs continued to hinder Prophet Noah in his mission by instigating doubts about Noah. They would say to the people:

“He is no more than a man like yourselves. His wish is to assert superiority over you. If God had wished (to send messengers), He could have sent down Angels. Never did we hear such a thing (as he says), among our ancestors of old.” — Holy Qur’an, 23:24. [5]

The chiefs would then turn in anger towards the Prophet and challenge him arrogantly:

“O Noah! Indeed you have disputed with us and you have prolonged the dispute: now bring upon us what you have threatened us with, if you are of the Truthful Ones.” — Holy Qur’an, 11:32

Prophet Noah would then remind them that it was not in his but God’s power to punish them for their evil ways.

“Truly God will bring it on you if He wills, — and then, you will not be able to frustrate it.” — Holy Qur’an, 11:33

But all his warnings, his good advices and counsels seemed to fall on deaf ears. Except for a very few who had followed his guidance, others continued to worship the idols of stone with different names as attested in the following verse:

“And they have said (to each other) ‘Abandon not your gods: abandon neither Wadd nor Suwa, neither Yaguth nor Yauq, nor Nasr.” — Holy Qur’an, 71:23

Prophet Noah re-doubled his efforts but all to no avail. He would then cry out to his Lord:

“O my Lord! I have called to my people by night and by day, but my call only (increases their) flight (from the True Path). And every time I have called to them, that You may forgive them, they have thrust their fingers into their ears, covered themselves up with their garments, grown obstinate and given themselves up to arrogance. So, I have called to them aloud: further I have spoken to them in public and secretly in private.” — Holy Qur’an, 71:5-9

As the people became more obstinate and refused to accept God’s message accusing Prophet Noah of falsehood, God decided to bring down His punishment upon the unbelievers. To Prophet Noah, God commanded:

“Construct the Ark within Our sight and under Our guidance. Then when comes Our command, and the fountains of the earth gush forth, take on board pairs of every species, male and female, and your people except those of them against whom the Word has already been issued: and address Me not in respect of those who are unjust; for verily they shall be drowned (in the flood).” — Holy Qur’an, 23:27


Miniature from Hafiz-i Abru’s Majma al-tawarikh. “Noah’s Ark”, Herat 1425. Leaf: 42.3 × 32.6 cm. The scene on the stormy sea is quite dramatic, with the fluttering sail, the ark breaking out of the picture frame, and the swollen bodies. The animals that are to populate the earth are rendered both humorously and fairly realistically. Photo: The David Collection, Denmark.

As commanded, Prophet Noah now set upon the task of building the Ark with the help of the small group of believers. The sight of Prophet Noah and his men constructing the Ark seemed to amuse the chiefs and unbelievers. They did not realise the seriousness of the situation but only laughed and jeered.

“Whenever the chiefs of his people passed by him, they mocked at him…” — Holy Qur’an, 11:38

Prophet Noah would now answer back to their mocking comments in a very bold and straight-forward manner:

“…If you ridicule us now, verily we too shall mock at you, even as you mock (at us). But soon will you know who it is on whom will descend a penalty which will cover them with shame and upon whom will fall a lasting penalty.” — Holy Qur’an, 11:38-39

When the Ark was completed, Prophet Noah took with him his family and the believers, and a pair of every creature that was found on the land around him. Now God’s warning to the people that He would send floods upon them came to pass.

“At length, behold! there came our Command, and the fountains of the earth gushed forth.” — Holy Qur’an, 11:40

The flood waters began to rise. Believers who had so far suffered at the hands of the chiefs and idol worshippers found themselves safe in Noah’s Ark. They offered their prayers and prostration to Almighty God as thanksgiving for the Mercy He had bestowed upon them. The unbelievers who had ignored God’s guidance were in a grievous state. All was lost to them. The heavy downpour of rain, the strong winds, the deafening thunder and the blinding lightning created confusion in their minds and fear in their hearts. They ran helter-skelter in search for safety. They climbed the roof-tops and the trees but nothing could save them now as the waters rose higher and higher.

Amongst the unbelievers was Prophet Noah’s own son, and he too was desperately trying to save himself from the flood waters. Prophet Noah’s Ark with all aboard was sailing safely on the waters and just when the Prophet saw his son he called out to him and said:

‘O my son! embark with us and be not with the unbelievers’. The son replied: ‘I will betake myself to some mountain, it will save me from the flood’. And Noah said: ‘This day nothing can save you from what God has decreed, for only those on whom He has Mercy will be saved’. And the waves came between them and the son was among the drowned ones.” — Holy Qur’an, 11:42-43

Finally, when all the unbelievers were drowned in the flood, God commanded:

“O Earth! swallow up your water, and O Sky! withhold your rain! and the water abated and the matter was ended. The Ark rested on Mount Judi.” [6] — Holy Qur’an, 11:44
As the ark rested on Mount Judi, Prophet Noah prayed:

“O my Lord! enable me to disembark with Your Blessings, for You are the Best of all to enable us to disembark.”

It appears your holy perfected book covers it all pretty well, with pictures and everything!

Hollie's Folly:
The Koran had no such tales and fables of Arks. Because the Koran usus the perfection of your corrupted religion, we must dismiss the bibles as flawed inventions of man.

 

[Hollie]

That was quite the promotion of your adopted religion.

However, discuss for us your lies and deceit in connection with your fraudulent editing, parsing and deletion of much of what Francis Crick wrote.

What do you believe is gained by lies and deceit?

 

[sealybobo]

That was quite the promotion of your adopted religion.

However, discuss for us your lies and deceit in connection with your fraudulent editing, parsing and deletion of much of what Francis Crick wrote.

What do you believe is gained by lies and deceit?

Are you kidding me? How many people belong to the Christian church? And you ask what is to be gained??? $$$ sister!

There is no evidence to support any of the claims made in the Bible concerning the existence of a god. Any ‘evidence’ proposed by theists to support the Bible’s various historical and supernatural claims is non-existent at best, manufactured at worst.

The Bible is historically inaccurate, factually incorrect, inconsistent and contradictory. It was artificially constructed by a group of men in antiquity and is poorly translated, heavily altered and selectively interpreted. Entire sections of the text have been redacted over time.

There is no contemporary evidence for Jesus’ existence or the Bible’s account of his life; no artefacts, dwellings, works of carpentry, self-written manuscripts, court records, eyewitness testimony, official diaries, birth records, reflections on his significance or written disputes about his teachings. Nothing survives from the time in which he is said to have lived.

All historical references to Jesus derive from hearsay accounts written decades or centuries after his supposed death. These historical references generally refer to early Christians rather than a historical Jesus and, in some cases, directly contradict the Gospels or were deliberately manufactured.

The Gospels themselves contradict one-another [2] on many key events and were constructed by unknown authors up to a century after the events they describe are said to have occurred. They are not eyewitness accounts. The New Testament, as a whole, contains many internal inconsistencies as a result of its piecemeal construction and is factually incorrect on several historical claims, such as the early existence of Nazareth, the reign of Herod and the Roman census. Like the Old Testament, it too has had entire books and sections redacted.

The Biblical account of Jesus has striking similarities with other mythologies and texts and many of his supposed teachings existed prior to his time. It is likely the character was either partly or entirely invented [2] by competing first century messianic cults from an amalgamation of Greco-Roman, Egyptian and Judeo-Apocalyptic myths and prophecies.

Even if Jesus’ existence could be established, this would in no way validate Christian theology or any element of the story portrayed in the Bible, such as the performance of miracles or the resurrection. Simply because it is conceivable a heretical Jewish preacher named Yeshua lived circa 30 AD, had followers and was executed, does not imply the son of a god walked the Earth at that time.

The motivation for belief in a divine, salvational Jesus breaks down when you accept evolution:

“Now, if the book of Genesis is an allegory, then sin is an allegory, the Fall is an allegory and the need for a Savior is an allegory – but if we are all descendants of an allegory, where does that leave us? It destroys the foundation of all Christian doctrine—it destroys the foundation of the gospel.” - Ken Ham

 

[Hollie]

I thought your proselyting on behalf of your newly found religion of Islam was meaningful to you. Could that be why you went to such lengths to disparage Christianity?

Anyway, let's review your second bald faced lie as you edited, purged and parsed entire volumes of what was written by Wald in your attempt to denigrate both a scientist and the religion of Christianity that you have abandoned in favor of Islam.

Your lied, as follows:

AND, this is how badly they want you to believe it anyway. This is what George Wald, Harvard University biochemist and Nobel Laureate had to say about spontaneous generation:

"One has only to contemplate the magnitude of this task to concede that the spontaneity generation of a living organism is impossible. Yet here we are-- as a result, I believe of spontaneous generation.

Wald went on to explain his ridiculous statement:
"When it comes to the origin of life there are only 2 possibilities: Creation, or spontaneous generation. There is no third way.
Spontaneous generation was disproved one hundred years ago, but that leads us to only one other conclusion, that of supernatural creation. WE CANNOT ACCEPT THAT ON PHILOSOPHICAL GROUNDS; THEREFORE, WE CHOOSE TO BELIEVE THE IMPOSSIBLE: THAT LIFE AROSE SPONTANEOUSLY BY CHANCE.

In response to your lies, deletions and fraud, I responded:


Quote Mine Project Assorted Quotes

Mars Hill Ministry: The Origin of Life --The "Hardware"; The Journey: Spontaneous Generation; and True News: The Origin of Life - Evolution’s Dilemma.

It should first be noted that, while Wald uses the term "spontaneous generation" throughout the article, he is not really concerned with the historic notion "that life arises regularly from the nonliving: worms from mud, maggots from decaying meat, mice from refuse of various kinds" that was shown to be untenable by Francesco Redi, Lazzaro Spallanzani and Louis Pasteur. Although he gives an account of Redi's, Spallanzani's and Pasteur's work, his real concern is "how organisms may have arisen spontaneously under different conditions [than exist in the present] in some former period, granted that they do so no longer." In short, he is speaking about what we would now call "abiogenesis."


The source of the above quote is an article Wald wrote, entitled "The Origin of Life," that appeared in the August 1954 issue of Scientific American (vol. 191), on pages 44-53. This is the same article that was ultimately the source of Quote Mine #57.


As was the case with Quote Mine # 57, the creationists have frequently mangled the citation in passing around the quote. The "Journey" site above gives the source as "George Wald, 'The Origin of Life,' Scientific American, 191:48, May 1954" as does The Triunity Report: The Origin of Life and The Suppression of Truth. Another site, Adventist Review: The Simple Cell?, gives it as "Scientific American, May 1954." The latter site goes on to merge this quote mine with a variation on Quote Mine #57, which itself was a paraphrase of what Wald said that bore little resemblance to his actual point, thus creating a true paragon of misinformation.


Unlike Quote Mine #57, however, the actual words attributed to Wald do appear in his article, on page 46. Immediately following on the two sentences above is a third that, together, form a complete paragraph that reads:

One has only to contemplate the magnitude of this task to concede that the spontaneous generation of a living organism is impossible. Yet here we are -- as a result, I believe, of spontaneous generation. It will help to digress for a moment to ask what one means by "impossible." [Emphasis added.]
Wald then goes on to discuss probability, beginning with the simple-to-calculate cases of coin tosses and dice, where the possible number of outcomes are known. He continues:

When one has no means of estimating the probability beforehand, it must be determined by counting the fraction of successes in a large number of trials.
Our everyday concept of what is impossible, possible or certain derives from our experience: the number of trials that may be encompassed within the space of a human lifetime, or at most within recorded human history. In this colloquial, practical sense I concede the spontaneous origin of life to be "impossible." It is impossible as we judge events in the scale of human experience.

We shall see that this is not a very meaningful concession; For one thing, the time with which our problem is concerned is geological time, and the whole extent of human history is trivial in the balance.

Wald then discusses the fact that highly improbable things can happen but that, as a result of the skeptical attitude of persons of good judgment, "events which are merely very extraordinary acquire the reputation of never having occurred at all." But Wald calls scientists the "[l]east skeptical" of all "judicious persons" because "cautious as they are, [they] know very well what strange things are possible." Wald's example for this, the possibility that a table will spontaneously rise into the air if "the molecules of which the table is composed, ordinarily in random motion in all directions, should happen by chance to move in the same direction," neatly anticipates Fred Hoyle's "Tornado in a Junkyard" argument. Therefore, according to Wald, "it does not mean much to say that a very improbable event has never been observed."

More importantly, though:
When we consider the spontaneous origin of a living organism, this is not an event that need happen again and again. It is perhaps enough for it to happen once. The probability with which we: are concerned is of a special kind; it is the probability that an event occur at least once. To this type of probability a fundamentally important thing happens as one increases the number of trials. However improbable the event in a single trial, it becomes increasingly probable as the trials are multiplied. Eventually the event becomes virtually inevitable.


Wald gives the following example:
Consider a reasonably improbable event, the chance of which is 1/1,000. The chance that this will not occur in one trial is 999/1,000. The chance that it won't occur in 1,000 trials is 999/1,000 multiplied together 1,000 times. This fraction comes out to be 37/100. The chance that it will happen at least once in 1,000 trials is therefore one minus this number -- 63/100 -- a little better than three chances out of five. One thousand trials have transformed this from a highly improbable to a highly probable event. In 10,000 trials the chance that this event will occur at least once comes out to be 19,999/20,000. It is now almost inevitable.

Time is in fact the hero of the plot. The time with which we have to deal is of the order of two billion years. What we regard as impossible on the basis of human experience is meaningless here. Given so much time, the "impossible" becomes possible, the possible probable, and the probable virtually certain. One has only to wait: time itself performs the miracles.

It is now clear why the quote miners omitted the sentence following the snippet they appropriated. Including it might have tipped off the people the quote is intended to impress that they are being mislead. And if they went and actually looked at the article, they would find that Wald was not saying that a naturalistic origin of life is impossible but was, instead, engaged in a bit of rhetorical flourish, leading up to his conclusion that:

The important point is that since the origin of life belongs in the category of at-least-once phenomena, time is on its side. However improbable we regard this event, or any of the steps which it involves, given enough time it will almost certainly happen at least once. And for life as we know it, with its capacity for growth and reproduction, once may be enough.
In short, Wald's conclusion in the article is diametrically opposed to the spin the creationists want to put on it. Wald is not, as the creationists would have you believe, arguing for a naturalistic view[1] despite the "evidence" of the supposed great improbability of life arising naturally, he is arguing that there is no such "evidence." Wald's point is, first of all, that the probability of abiogenesis happening is impossible to calculate. But beyond that, the very nature of the problem suggests the likelihood that abiogenesis did happen, here on Earth or somewhere in the universe.

Creationists are free to dispute Wald's arguments or his conclusions, of course. In fact, he accepts, based on the evidence available in 1954, that there was some 2 billion years between the point that conditions on Earth made life possible and its first appearance. Evidence discovered in the 50 years that have passed since Wald's article suggests that liquid water first appeared on the Earth about 4.4 billion years ago, while the earliest fossils found are dated at 3.5 billion years ago and the earliest (though disputed) signs of life date to 3.8 billion years ago. It is not immediately obvious that 700 million years or so is insufficient for Wald's argument to be valid.

 

[hjmick]

 

[sealybobo]

That was quite the promotion of your adopted religion.

However, discuss for us your lies and deceit in connection with your fraudulent editing, parsing and deletion of much of what Francis Crick wrote.

What do you believe is gained by lies and deceit?

Islam is just an arab spin off of Christianity just like Christianity is a spin off of the Jewish faith.

Oh, and I asked my Muslim friend about how the Koran says either infidels convert or die. He said that was back when we were waring with each other. I agree with him. I don't think MOST Muslims today in America think we either need to convert or die.

And we need to realize that for almost 2000 years we did the same thing. We gave non Christians 3 choices. Leave, Convert or Die.

 

[The Irish Ram]

Hollie's Folly:
The Koran had no such tales and fables of Arks. Because the Koran usus the perfection of your corrupted religion, we must dismiss the bibles as flawed inventions of man.

 

[sealybobo]

Hollie's Folly:
The Koran had no such tales and fables of Arks. Because the Koran usus the perfection of your corrupted religion, we must dismiss the bibles as flawed inventions of man.

I heard a lot of Americans are becoming Muslims because it is easy to understand, isn't racist like Christianity is and I can't remember the 3rd reason. What is the Muslim story? The elevator pitch please. The short version. I know the stupid Christian schtick. What's yours? Maybe it makes more sense. I really don't know what it is. Maybe I'll convert once I hear it.

And I don't really know the Jewish Schtick either. One Jewish guy told me that if a non Jew wants to convert his first goal is to try and talk them out of it and if they can't, find another Jew who can. In other words they really don't care if you become a member. LOL.

 

[Hollie]

Hollie's Folly:
The Koran had no such tales and fables of Arks. Because the Koran usus the perfection of your corrupted religion, we must dismiss the bibles as flawed inventions of man.

Still no explanation for your lies and deceit?

What a shame. I would have thought you might want to display a bit of honesty and personal integrity.

Obviously not.

 

[The Irish Ram]

Oh, and I asked my Muslim friend about how the Koran says either infidels convert or die. He said that was back when we were waring with each other. I agree with him. I don't think MOST Muslims today in America think we either need to convert or die.
And we need to realize that for almost 2000 years we did the same thing. We gave non Christians 3 choices. Leave, Convert or Die.

Your Muslim friend is out of touch Sealy. And did is past tense. You meant do:
ISIS tells Christians in Iraq to convert pay tax or die Asia News - India Today

Hollie's Folly:
The Koran had no such tales and fables of Arks. Because the Koran usus the perfection of your corrupted religion, we must dismiss the bibles as flawed inventions of man.

 

[sealybobo]

Oh, and I asked my Muslim friend about how the Koran says either infidels convert or die. He said that was back when we were waring with each other. I agree with him. I don't think MOST Muslims today in America think we either need to convert or die.
And we need to realize that for almost 2000 years we did the same thing. We gave non Christians 3 choices. Leave, Convert or Die.

Your Muslim friend is out of touch Sealy. And did is past tense. You meant do:
ISIS tells Christians in Iraq to convert pay tax or die Asia News - India Today

Hollie's Folly:
The Koran had no such tales and fables of Arks. Because the Koran usus the perfection of your corrupted religion, we must dismiss the bibles as flawed inventions of man.

I said Muslim Americans. The Muslims in Iraq are about 1000 years behind us. They're think they are still fighting holy wars.

Do you see what the idea of god does to people? ISIS is a great example of why you guys need to let this shit go. Grow up or evolve!

 

[Hollie]

Oh, and I asked my Muslim friend about how the Koran says either infidels convert or die. He said that was back when we were waring with each other. I agree with him. I don't think MOST Muslims today in America think we either need to convert or die.
And we need to realize that for almost 2000 years we did the same thing. We gave non Christians 3 choices. Leave, Convert or Die.

Your Muslim friend is out of touch Sealy. And did is past tense. You meant do:
ISIS tells Christians in Iraq to convert pay tax or die Asia News - India Today

Hollie's Folly:
The Koran had no such tales and fables of Arks. Because the Koran usus the perfection of your corrupted religion, we must dismiss the bibles as flawed inventions of man.

Poor ram.

You're reduced to cutting and pasting the same childish nonsense as you desperately sidestep any accounting for your lies, falsehoods and dishonesty.

What a shame that your dishonesty apparently comes from your religious extremism and those fundamentalist views.

 

[sealybobo]

Oh, and I asked my Muslim friend about how the Koran says either infidels convert or die. He said that was back when we were waring with each other. I agree with him. I don't think MOST Muslims today in America think we either need to convert or die.
And we need to realize that for almost 2000 years we did the same thing. We gave non Christians 3 choices. Leave, Convert or Die.

Your Muslim friend is out of touch Sealy. And did is past tense. You meant do:
ISIS tells Christians in Iraq to convert pay tax or die Asia News - India Today

Hollie's Folly:
The Koran had no such tales and fables of Arks. Because the Koran usus the perfection of your corrupted religion, we must dismiss the bibles as flawed inventions of man.

And why would you look at it like it is him who is out of touch and not ISIS? You must be a stupid ignorant Christian. Just remember it was the 1700's and you guys were burning witches. So Muslims in the middle east are only about 300 years behind us.

And I would guess more likely they hate us because of our political policies and not our religion. Stop persecuting them and stealing their oil and maybe they won't hate us so much.

Ever go to Turkey? Of course you have not you ignorant American. They are Muslims and they won't chop off your head. Or in Iran. They are backward too. Why? Because they are overly religious! The day they let that shit go is the day they wake up.

 

[sealybobo]

Oh, and I asked my Muslim friend about how the Koran says either infidels convert or die. He said that was back when we were waring with each other. I agree with him. I don't think MOST Muslims today in America think we either need to convert or die.
And we need to realize that for almost 2000 years we did the same thing. We gave non Christians 3 choices. Leave, Convert or Die.

Your Muslim friend is out of touch Sealy. And did is past tense. You meant do:
ISIS tells Christians in Iraq to convert pay tax or die Asia News - India Today

Hollie's Folly:
The Koran had no such tales and fables of Arks. Because the Koran usus the perfection of your corrupted religion, we must dismiss the bibles as flawed inventions of man.

Poor ram.

What a shame that your dishonesty apparently comes from your religious extremism and those fundamentalist views.

Close minded too. This reminds me of the idiots who no matter how much we tried to explain to them why atheism isn't a religion, they just refused to even listen to any of our arguments. Was I surprised? Nope.

 

[Hollie]

Oh, and I asked my Muslim friend about how the Koran says either infidels convert or die. He said that was back when we were waring with each other. I agree with him. I don't think MOST Muslims today in America think we either need to convert or die.
And we need to realize that for almost 2000 years we did the same thing. We gave non Christians 3 choices. Leave, Convert or Die.

Your Muslim friend is out of touch Sealy. And did is past tense. You meant do:
ISIS tells Christians in Iraq to convert pay tax or die Asia News - India Today

Hollie's Folly:
The Koran had no such tales and fables of Arks. Because the Koran usus the perfection of your corrupted religion, we must dismiss the bibles as flawed inventions of man.

I said Muslim Americans. The Muslims in Iraq are about 1000 years behind us. They're think they are still fighting holy wars.

Do you see what the idea of god does to people? ISIS is a great example of why you guys need to let this shit go. Grow up or evolve!

With rammers long cut and paste extolling the koran's co-option of earlier tales and fables, ramie's conversion to Islam seems complete.

 

[PostmodernProph]

amino acids.

you shouldn't challenge her faith, she may go all jihad on you......