Question for Jehovah's Witnesses

[kjw47]

Hi.

I tried searching your site but I didn't find an answer, how do Jehovah's Witnesses reconcile Isaiah 9:6 to their (or your) being nontrinitarians?

EDIT - If anyone is unfamiliar with Isaiah 9:6, here it is:

Isaiah 9:6
English Standard Version (ESV)
(6)For to us a child is born,
to us a son is given;
and the government shall be upon his shoulder,
and his name shall be called
Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God,
Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.

If you read it correctly---Jesus'--NAME-- will be called those things--it is not saying Jesus himself will be those things. There is a big difference.
Jesus taught--John 17:1-6,26--- the one who sent him( John 5:30-Father) is THE ONLY TRUE GOD.--verse 6 = YHWH(Jehovah) , 26= YHWH( Jehovah)-- (making this reality of what a true follower does--John 4:22-24.

The Bible teaches Jesus is Jehovah. And the Father is Eloheim. Even when Christ was on the cross He called Him Eloi.

Savior

psalms

21 They forgat God their savior, which had done great things in Egypt;

Isaiah

3 For I amthe Lordthy God, the Holy Oneof Israel, thy Saviour: I gave Egyptforthy ransom, Ethiopia and Sebafor thee.

11 I, evenI, amthe Lord; and besideme there isno saviour.

15 Verily thou arta God that hidestthyself, O God of Israel, the Saviour.

2Sam 22.3 The God of my rock; in him will I trust: he ismyshield, and the horn of my salvation, my high-tower, and my refuge, my saviour; thou savest me from violence.

Hosea

4 Yet I amthe Lordthy God from the land of Egypt, and thou shalt know no godbut me: for there isno saviour besideme.

New Testament equivalent.

21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his nameJESUS: for he shall savehis people from their sins.

Luke 1:

47 And my spirit hath rejoicedin God my Saviour.

11 For unto you is bornthis day in the city of David a Saviour, which is Christ the Lord.

John 4.42 And said unto the woman, Now we believe, not because of thy saying: for we have heard him ourselves, and know that this is indeed the Christ, the Saviourof the world.

10 Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, even by him doth this man stand here before you whole.

11 This is the stone which was set at nought of you builders, which is become the head of the corner.

12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

Acts 13:23 Of this man’s seedhath God according to his promiseraised unto Israel a Saviour, Jesus:

I Tim 1:1 Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the commandment of God our Saviour, and Lord Jesus Christ, which isour hope;

Titus 1:4 To Titus, mineown son afterthe common faith: Grace, mercy, andpeace, from God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ our Saviour.

Titus 3:6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;

1Jn 4:14 And we have seen and do testifythat the Father sentthe Son to bethe Saviour of the world.

Repurchaser:

Is 4314 ¶Thus saith the Lord, your redeemer, the Holy One of Israel; For your sake I have sent to Babylon, and have brought down all their nobles, and the Chaldeans, whose cry is in the ships.

15 I am the Lord, your Holy One, the creator of Israel, your King.

Is 54;5 For thy Maker isthine husband; the Lordof hostsishis name; and thy Redeemerthe Holy One of Israel; The Godof the whole earth shall he be called.

Is 59;20 ¶And the Redeemershall cometo Zion, and unto them that turnfrom transgression in Jacob, saith the Lord.

Is. 41

13 For I the Lord thy God will hold thy right hand, saying unto thee, Fear not; I will help thee.

14 Fear not, thou worm Jacob, and ye men of Israel; I will help thee, saith the Lord, and thy redeemer, the Holy Oneof Israel.

Ps 49

15 But God will redeemmy soul from the power of the grave: for he shall receiveme. Selah.

4 As forour redeemer, the Lordof hosts ishis name, the Holy One of Israel.

26 And I will feed them that oppressthee with their own flesh; and they shall be drunken with their own blood, as with sweet wine: and all flesh shall knowthat I the Lordamthy Saviourand thy Redeemer, the mighty Oneof Jacob.

15 But God will redeemmy soul from the power of the grave: for he shall receiveme. Selah.

Acts 20:28

28 ¶Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the churchof God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.

1Peter 1

18 Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers;

19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lambwithout blemish and without spot:

Gal. 3

13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: or it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:

Gal 4:4 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sentforth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,

5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.

Col

14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, eventhe forgiveness of sins:

Judgement:

Ichron 16:33 Then shall the treesof the wood sing out at the presence of the Lord, because he cometh to judgethe earth.

Ps 96;13 Before the Lord: for he cometh, for he cometh to judge the earth: he shall judge the world with righteousness, and the people with his truth.

Psalm 9;7 But the Lordshall endure for ever: he hath prepared his throne for judgment.

Matt16:27 For the Son of manshall come in the gloryof his Father with his angels; and then he shall rewardevery man according to his works.

John 5;22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committedall judgmentunto the Son:

2Cor. 5;10 For we must all appear before the judgmentseat of Christ; that every one may receive the things donein his body, accordingto that he hath done, whether it begood or bad.

Acts 10;36 The word which God sent unto the children of Israel, preaching peace by Jesus Christ: (he is Lord of all

37 That word, I say, ye know, which was published throughout all Judæa, and began from Galilee, after the baptism which John preached;

38 How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him.

39 And we are witnesses of all things which he did both in the land of the Jews, and in Jerusalem; whom they slew and hanged on a tree:

40 Him God raised up the third day, and shewed him openly;

41 Not to all the people, but unto witnesses chosen before of God, even to us, who did eat and drink with him after he rose from the dead.

42 And he commanded us to preach unto the people, and to testify that it is he which was ordained of God to be the Judge of quick and

Rom 14:10 But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before thejudgment seat of Christ.

Jude

14 And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,

15 To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him.

2Timothy

1 I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom;

Holy One of Israel

Is 43:15 I amthe Lord, your Holy One, the creator of Israel, your King.

Mk 1:24 Saying, Let usalone; whathave we to do with thee, thou Jesus of Nazareth? art thou come to destroy us? I know thee who thou art, the Holy Oneof God.

Lk 4:34 Saying, Let usalone; what have we to do with thee,thouJesus of Nazareth? art thou come to destroy us? I know thee who thou art; the Holy One of God.

Prepare the Way

Is 40:2 Speak ye comfortably to Jerusalem, and cry unto her, that her warfare is accomplished, that her iniquity is pardoned: for she hath received of the Lord’s hand double for all her sins.

3 ¶The voice of him that crieth in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make straight in the desert a highway for our God.

Mk 1:3 The voiceof one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight.

Lk 1:76 And thou, child, shalt be called the prophet of the Highest: for thou shalt go before the face of the Lord toprepare his ways;

77 To give knowledge of salvation unto his people by the

Creation:

Gen 1:26 ¶And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

7 And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so.

Heb 1:2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

I AM

Ex 3:14 And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you.

Jn8:58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you,Before Abraham was, I am.

59 Then took they up stones to cast at him: but Jesus hid himself, and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by.

Book of Revelations

Rev 1:5 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,

8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.

The NWTHS really slaughtered this passage

11 Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and, What thou seest, write in a book, and send it unto the seven churches which are in Asia; unto Ephesus, and unto Smyrna, and unto Pergamos, and unto Thyatira, and unto Sardis, and unto Philadelphia, and unto Laodicea.

17 And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last:

18I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.

Rev 2

8 And unto the angel of the church in Smyrna write; These things saith the first and the last, which was dead, and is alive;

YHWH( Jehovah) is the savior-- he does it through Jesus--the same way he parted the red sea through Moses--Moses couldn't do it--Jehovah did. It works the same with Jesus--only YHWH( Jehovah) has the power-- ( last line Lords prayer--The KINGDOM, POWER, and GLORY all belong to the Father.

Simple Question:
Did Jehovah die?

No

 

[kjw47]

YHWH(Jehovah) spoke in the ot. YHWH(Jehovah) gave Jesus everything he has, he taught him everything, he shares, honor and glory with Jesus--Jesus taught he can do 0 of his own( John 5:30)--it works like this--Acts 2:22--Gods power goes through Jesus. Only YHWH(Jehovah) is the almighty.

Throughout Scripture it is clear that Jesus is God, as I have shown. Jesus SET ASIDE His authority to become one of us. From Phillipians:

5 In your relationships with one another, have the same mindset as Christ Jesus: Who, being in very nature God, did not consider equality with God something to be used to his own advantage; rather, he made himself nothing by taking the very nature of a servant, being made in human likeness.

Jesus embraced humanity, literally becoming one of us and submitting Himself to God's authority. He is still God.

Then please explain how God has a God--because Jesus does--John 20:17( in the flesh) --- (rev 3:12--while in heaven as a spirit)---And Why after he hands back the kingdom to his God and Father that Jesus subjects himself, forever 1Cor 15:24-28)

Did you not see where He set aside His authority and humbled Himself to become one of us?

Yes he was prince of all angels, he became lower than the angels( mortal) Hebrews 2:7)--- he died and paid the wages of sin he did not owe( the ransom sacrifice)And received- a 1000 year kingship and a bride of Christ( little flock-Luke 12:32) = 144,000)
You see the ot clearly teaches--God is king of eternity---If Jesus were that God, he could not be appointed to a kingship( Dan 7:13-15) he already would be king. But not only is he appointed, he must hand it back to his God as well( 1Cor 15:24-28)--- so how does God have a God, yet there only be one God?

How many times must I repeat it? Jesus set aside His authority and submitted to God, just as we all must do. Otherwise He could hardly be one of us, could He?

Jesus went back to being a spirit at his resurrection. He hadn't even become king yet at that point--not until Rev 6--post war in heaven.

 

[kjw47]

YHWH( Jehovah) is the savior-- he does it through Jesus--the same way he parted the red sea through Moses--Moses couldn't do it--Jehovah did. It works the same with Jesus--only YHWH( Jehovah) has the power-- ( last line Lords prayer--The KINGDOM, POWER, and GLORY all belong to the Father.

Who, then is the First and the Last?

Both are in certain things.

That does not make sense. Jesus would not take on Himself one of God's titles if He is not worthy of it. There can only be one First and Last. Also, who has the power to forgive sin, other than God Himself?

Jesus has the power like this--Acts 2:22--Gods power goes through Jesus--- it is not Jesus' power( John 5:30)--His God lets him forgive sin.
Jesus was the first and last directly created by the hand of God--all other things were created through Jesus( Gods master worker) Prov 8-- the first and last to be appointed king of Gods kingdom. etc.
YHWH( Jehovah) is the first and last true living God.

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God and the Word was God. Jesus was not created.

The only word in greek for either--God or god--is Theos--- in the 2nd line of John 1:1--Ho theos appears in the oldest writings--means--The true God-- Ho Theos was not in the last line--thus--a god is correct--it is not calling the Logos( word) the true God.
Otherwise in simple English trinity speaking the 2nd line reads--and the God was with God--that's more than one God.
Trinity translations are erred to fit false council teachings= 100% fact.

Gods word teaches Jesus was created---Coll 1:15-- the firstborn of all creation
Jesus speaking at Proverbs 8:22-- produced me( created direct-first and last) as the beginning( creation) of your way.

 

[HaShev]

Thank you for proving Jesus is Lucifer the one Ezekiel 28 says is a "created" image of a man. You are saying the NT admits Jesus is created.
More recently the Vatican made an unusual statement that backs this fact by saying the people don't understand that Jesus was a compiled vision of one to come at a later time.

 

[HaShev]

The religious authorities of his day were trying to frame Jesus for blasphemy by twisting the things he said in order to discredit his teaching

Sort of like your lame attempts at baring false testimony and disruptive ad hominem attacks on me. *L*
"And the hypocrit of the year award goes to the guy with his boot in his mouth!"
-signed the (Ha)Shewb (Shev) bread
-John 6:51 (from your post not mine)
Please Stop hitting yourself.

 

[HaShev]

No that is what your book claims but i can easily explain what they mean... You see originally there was gds word in the hebrew scriptures .. Then along came your group and they wrote the new testament and placed it together with the hebrew scriptures then they sneakily claimed that the father( the jewish scriptures) and he ( being the word your logos Jesus) are one.... It was very sneaky but those who can see can easily see through this deception...Interestingly the total books became 66 and 6 for man as that was the day man was created so it is the mark of 666 what your group did.... Wink wink...

Father (Baal)and son
(morning star Rev 22:16) are 1 (same mythology) for those to argue differently would be to reinvent usage of symbols and meaning of words while calling Jesus an idiot for calling himself morning star.
THUS ONCE THE MYSTERY IS REVEALED
WE NOW CAN SECRET THE NUMBER OF THIS CREATED IMAGES NAME:
BAAL JESUS=666 in ascll numerology used to secret numbers from names.
Puzzle solved....give me a harder one, I need a tougher challenge.

 

[HaShev]

There are many places where Jesus claims to be God. You can disagree with Him, but that's what He says.

That's why you can't find 1.
However all over is evidence of placing the character over God by you making him your god.
fact Moshiach would be a man not God.
Making him both=story of Lucifer
1-Lucifer would be deemed perfect and a god lifted higher the YHWH.
2-Hebrews 3:1 Wherefore, holy brethren, partakers of a heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our confession, [even] Jesus;
3:2 who was faithful to him that appointed him....(If someone appointed him, then he isn’t God)
The author of Hebrews (now seen as probably not Paul’s style)
confirmed this was a correct translation when he quoted it. (Heb 2:7,9) You made him a little lower than angels; with glory and honor you crowned him, and appointed him over the works of your hands. 9 but we "behold Jesus, who has been made a little lower than angels".
Hebrews 5:6, 5:10, & 6:20 say Jesus is after the Order of Melchizedek (another name for Archangel Michael)

Third person tense using "him"=another.
Matthew 4:10«Then Jesus said to him, «Away with you, Satan! For IT IS WRITTEN,«You shall worship the Lord your God, and "Him" only you shall serve.»

John 5:30 I can of my own self do, nothing.

John 14:12 The works I do, you can do, and greater

John 16:23 You shall ask me for nothing

John 16:26 I do not say that I will pray to the Father for you

John 5:3I If I bear witness about myself, my witness is false

Luke 12:14 Who made me judge or divider over you ?

Mark 12:26 And as for the dead being raised, have you not read in the book of Moses, in the passage about the bush, how God said to him, 'I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob'?
Here Jesus is talking in verse 24-26 he talks about how G-d said to him not saying ‘I said to him’ clearly a distinction that G-d is another person refering to "him" as another.

The "why did you foresake me" speach is as obvious as it gets unless you say he talks to himself.

I can go on all day with verses but it's very clear in the OT.
Numbers 23:19.The Hebrew reads:
lo ish el vichazev u-vein-adam v'yitnechamGod is not a man, nor will he lie, nor is he mortal, nor will he relent.
Jesus was a lie about a mere man who lied and who relented.
Jesus isn't even an actual singular historical figure, none of the christ figures used for his accounts ever claimed to be Creator of Creation.

I have shown you where He said He is God. Like I also said, you may disagree with Him, but He made it clear.

Who's he?
Name a SINGULAR historical person not the generic IeSous(Jesus).
What era did this historical figure live in?
How old was he when he died?
Give me Historical facts not mythology.
There were many christs, so please name yours.

 

[tyroneweaver]

Throughout Scripture it is clear that Jesus is God, as I have shown. Jesus SET ASIDE His authority to become one of us. From Phillipians: Jesus embraced humanity, literally becoming one of us and submitting Himself to God's authority. He is still God.

Then please explain how God has a God--because Jesus does--John 20:17( in the flesh) --- (rev 3:12--while in heaven as a spirit)---And Why after he hands back the kingdom to his God and Father that Jesus subjects himself, forever 1Cor 15:24-28)

Did you not see where He set aside His authority and humbled Himself to become one of us?

Yes he was prince of all angels, he became lower than the angels( mortal) Hebrews 2:7)--- he died and paid the wages of sin he did not owe( the ransom sacrifice)And received- a 1000 year kingship and a bride of Christ( little flock-Luke 12:32) = 144,000)
You see the ot clearly teaches--God is king of eternity---If Jesus were that God, he could not be appointed to a kingship( Dan 7:13-15) he already would be king. But not only is he appointed, he must hand it back to his God as well( 1Cor 15:24-28)--- so how does God have a God, yet there only be one God?

How many times must I repeat it? Jesus set aside His authority and submitted to God, just as we all must do. Otherwise He could hardly be one of us, could He?

Jesus went back to being a spirit at his resurrection. He hadn't even become king yet at that point--not until Rev 6--post war in heaven.

There's no scriptural evidence of that!!!!

 

[hadit]

Throughout Scripture it is clear that Jesus is God, as I have shown. Jesus SET ASIDE His authority to become one of us. From Phillipians: Jesus embraced humanity, literally becoming one of us and submitting Himself to God's authority. He is still God.

Then please explain how God has a God--because Jesus does--John 20:17( in the flesh) --- (rev 3:12--while in heaven as a spirit)---And Why after he hands back the kingdom to his God and Father that Jesus subjects himself, forever 1Cor 15:24-28)

Did you not see where He set aside His authority and humbled Himself to become one of us?

Yes he was prince of all angels, he became lower than the angels( mortal) Hebrews 2:7)--- he died and paid the wages of sin he did not owe( the ransom sacrifice)And received- a 1000 year kingship and a bride of Christ( little flock-Luke 12:32) = 144,000)
You see the ot clearly teaches--God is king of eternity---If Jesus were that God, he could not be appointed to a kingship( Dan 7:13-15) he already would be king. But not only is he appointed, he must hand it back to his God as well( 1Cor 15:24-28)--- so how does God have a God, yet there only be one God?

How many times must I repeat it? Jesus set aside His authority and submitted to God, just as we all must do. Otherwise He could hardly be one of us, could He?

Jesus went back to being a spirit at his resurrection. He hadn't even become king yet at that point--not until Rev 6--post war in heaven.

Actually, no. He presented His physically resurrected body to His disciples, eating with them, allowing them to touch His hands and His side to demonstrate it really was Him.

 

[hadit]

There are many places where Jesus claims to be God. You can disagree with Him, but that's what He says.

That's why you can't find 1.
However all over is evidence of placing the character over God by you making him your god.
fact Moshiach would be a man not God.
Making him both=story of Lucifer
1-Lucifer would be deemed perfect and a god lifted higher the YHWH.
2-Hebrews 3:1 Wherefore, holy brethren, partakers of a heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our confession, [even] Jesus;
3:2 who was faithful to him that appointed him....(If someone appointed him, then he isn’t God)
The author of Hebrews (now seen as probably not Paul’s style)
confirmed this was a correct translation when he quoted it. (Heb 2:7,9) You made him a little lower than angels; with glory and honor you crowned him, and appointed him over the works of your hands. 9 but we "behold Jesus, who has been made a little lower than angels".
Hebrews 5:6, 5:10, & 6:20 say Jesus is after the Order of Melchizedek (another name for Archangel Michael)

Third person tense using "him"=another.
Matthew 4:10«Then Jesus said to him, «Away with you, Satan! For IT IS WRITTEN,«You shall worship the Lord your God, and "Him" only you shall serve.»

John 5:30 I can of my own self do, nothing.

John 14:12 The works I do, you can do, and greater

John 16:23 You shall ask me for nothing

John 16:26 I do not say that I will pray to the Father for you

John 5:3I If I bear witness about myself, my witness is false

Luke 12:14 Who made me judge or divider over you ?

Mark 12:26 And as for the dead being raised, have you not read in the book of Moses, in the passage about the bush, how God said to him, 'I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob'?
Here Jesus is talking in verse 24-26 he talks about how G-d said to him not saying ‘I said to him’ clearly a distinction that G-d is another person refering to "him" as another.

The "why did you foresake me" speach is as obvious as it gets unless you say he talks to himself.

I can go on all day with verses but it's very clear in the OT.
Numbers 23:19.The Hebrew reads:
lo ish el vichazev u-vein-adam v'yitnechamGod is not a man, nor will he lie, nor is he mortal, nor will he relent.
Jesus was a lie about a mere man who lied and who relented.
Jesus isn't even an actual singular historical figure, none of the christ figures used for his accounts ever claimed to be Creator of Creation.

I have shown you where He said He is God. Like I also said, you may disagree with Him, but He made it clear.

Who's he?
Name a SINGULAR historical person not the generic IeSous(Jesus).
What era did this historical figure live in?
How old was he when he died?
Give me Historical facts not mythology.
There were many christs, so please name yours.

Clearly I am speaking of the Christ who is named in Scripture and am making the case that He claimed to be God, many times.

 

[hobelim]

Actually, no. He presented His physically resurrected body to His disciples, eating with them, allowing them to touch His hands and His side to demonstrate it really was Him.

No. Jesus did not pop in and out of actual reality after he died to spook his friends.

What was recorded were eyewitness accounts of what was seen and heard in dreams.

 

[hadit]

Actually, no. He presented His physically resurrected body to His disciples, eating with them, allowing them to touch His hands and His side to demonstrate it really was Him.

No. Jesus did not pop in and out of actual reality after he died to spook his friends.

What was recorded were eyewitness accounts of what was seen and heard in dreams.

That is not indicated in Scripture.

 

[hobelim]

Actually, no. He presented His physically resurrected body to His disciples, eating with them, allowing them to touch His hands and His side to demonstrate it really was Him.

No. Jesus did not pop in and out of actual reality after he died to spook his friends.

What was recorded were eyewitness accounts of what was seen and heard in dreams.

That is not indicated in Scripture.

When Ezekiel was carried by an angel holding his hair and flew through the air from Babylon to Jerusalem where he dug though 13 feet of the temple wall of solid stone with his bare hands it wasn't described as a dream either.

I suppose the writers assumed that an intelligent reader would know that such things don't happen anywhere else but in dreams.

It is the Jewish belief that dreams are the medium through which God communicates to man. If the disciples spoke with with Jesus in their dreams after he died they would have been convinced that Jesus survived death and had received the reward of the righteous, eternal life, and was in the realm of God.

 

[hadit]

Actually, no. He presented His physically resurrected body to His disciples, eating with them, allowing them to touch His hands and His side to demonstrate it really was Him.

No. Jesus did not pop in and out of actual reality after he died to spook his friends.

What was recorded were eyewitness accounts of what was seen and heard in dreams.

That is not indicated in Scripture.

When Ezekiel was carried by an angel holding his hair and flew through the air from Babylon to Jerusalem where he dug though 13 feet of the temple wall of solid stone with his bare hands it wasn't described as a dream either.

I suppose the writers assumed that an intelligent reader would know that such things don't happen anywhere else but in dreams.

It is the Jewish belief that dreams are the medium through which God communicates to man. If the disciples spoke with with Jesus in their dreams after he died they would have been convinced that Jesus survived death and had received the reward of the righteous, eternal life, and was in the realm of God.

He was seen repeatedly by multiple people at the same time. Not a dream.

 

[hobelim]

Actually, no. He presented His physically resurrected body to His disciples, eating with them, allowing them to touch His hands and His side to demonstrate it really was Him.

No. Jesus did not pop in and out of actual reality after he died to spook his friends.

What was recorded were eyewitness accounts of what was seen and heard in dreams.

That is not indicated in Scripture.

When Ezekiel was carried by an angel holding his hair and flew through the air from Babylon to Jerusalem where he dug though 13 feet of the temple wall of solid stone with his bare hands it wasn't described as a dream either.

I suppose the writers assumed that an intelligent reader would know that such things don't happen anywhere else but in dreams.

It is the Jewish belief that dreams are the medium through which God communicates to man. If the disciples spoke with with Jesus in their dreams after he died they would have been convinced that Jesus survived death and had received the reward of the righteous, eternal life, and was in the realm of God.

He was seen repeatedly by multiple people at the same time. Not a dream.

Exactly like in Ezekiel, the details and circumstances of each visitation makes it impossible that they were truthful eyewitness accounts of anything but a dream.

Dead people do not materialize and dematerialize in crowded locked rooms except in dreams.

 

[HaShev]

There are many places where Jesus claims to be God. You can disagree with Him, but that's what He says.

That's why you can't find 1.
However all over is evidence of placing the character over God by you making him your god.
fact Moshiach would be a man not God.
Making him both=story of Lucifer
1-Lucifer would be deemed perfect and a god lifted higher the YHWH.
2-Hebrews 3:1 Wherefore, holy brethren, partakers of a heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our confession, [even] Jesus;
3:2 who was faithful to him that appointed him....(If someone appointed him, then he isn’t God)
The author of Hebrews (now seen as probably not Paul’s style)
confirmed this was a correct translation when he quoted it. (Heb 2:7,9) You made him a little lower than angels; with glory and honor you crowned him, and appointed him over the works of your hands. 9 but we "behold Jesus, who has been made a little lower than angels".
Hebrews 5:6, 5:10, & 6:20 say Jesus is after the Order of Melchizedek (another name for Archangel Michael)

Third person tense using "him"=another.
Matthew 4:10«Then Jesus said to him, «Away with you, Satan! For IT IS WRITTEN,«You shall worship the Lord your God, and "Him" only you shall serve.»

John 5:30 I can of my own self do, nothing.

John 14:12 The works I do, you can do, and greater

John 16:23 You shall ask me for nothing

John 16:26 I do not say that I will pray to the Father for you

John 5:3I If I bear witness about myself, my witness is false

Luke 12:14 Who made me judge or divider over you ?

Mark 12:26 And as for the dead being raised, have you not read in the book of Moses, in the passage about the bush, how God said to him, 'I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob'?
Here Jesus is talking in verse 24-26 he talks about how G-d said to him not saying ‘I said to him’ clearly a distinction that G-d is another person refering to "him" as another.

The "why did you foresake me" speach is as obvious as it gets unless you say he talks to himself.

I can go on all day with verses but it's very clear in the OT.
Numbers 23:19.The Hebrew reads:
lo ish el vichazev u-vein-adam v'yitnechamGod is not a man, nor will he lie, nor is he mortal, nor will he relent.
Jesus was a lie about a mere man who lied and who relented.
Jesus isn't even an actual singular historical figure, none of the christ figures used for his accounts ever claimed to be Creator of Creation.

I have shown you where He said He is God. Like I also said, you may disagree with Him, but He made it clear.

Who's he?
Name a SINGULAR historical person not the generic IeSous(Jesus).
What era did this historical figure live in?
How old was he when he died?
Give me Historical facts not mythology.
There were many christs, so please name yours.

Clearly I am speaking of the Christ who is named in Scripture and am making the case that He claimed to be God, many times.

There are at least 4-5 christs converged-compiled in your NT even Acts talks of 2 other Christs (Yehuda the Galilean & Theudas by the Jordan)who happened to be used for the image Jesus.
Even Paul and James are at odds claiming each is worshiping a different Christ then they are, while the NT states there was a church of Satan that existed as in worshiping a christ that they thought impostered or was adversary theirs.
All I asked was for a name and era and age.
But you couldn't be honest and answer or admit you couldn't. I rest my case.

Your Resurrection acct is also problematic, because
1)it's self testified and you'd be going against his word not to self testify.
2)to compete with mythologies and explain a dying failed figure and being they borrowed Baal's mythology, meant the son of Baal rose from the dead like Baal his father did in his predated recorded passion play. (source of which I already supplied)
3) They did not recognize the body-persona
in this story your trinity is busted.
Because if he returned(hashev) then that was a forth and returning again later would be a fifth as even they claimed it would be another with a new name(hashem).
4)Furthermore it would mean Satan got his way making Jesus popular lifting him higher then God by appearing as his resurrection or creating his resurrection story. In fact the whole claim to being eternal through belief in Jesus is warned about in the Genesis Serpent story, exact same promise and symbolic representation.

 

[hadit]

There are many places where Jesus claims to be God. You can disagree with Him, but that's what He says.

That's why you can't find 1.
However all over is evidence of placing the character over God by you making him your god.
fact Moshiach would be a man not God.
Making him both=story of Lucifer
1-Lucifer would be deemed perfect and a god lifted higher the YHWH.
2-Hebrews 3:1 Wherefore, holy brethren, partakers of a heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our confession, [even] Jesus;
3:2 who was faithful to him that appointed him....(If someone appointed him, then he isn’t God)
The author of Hebrews (now seen as probably not Paul’s style)
confirmed this was a correct translation when he quoted it. (Heb 2:7,9) You made him a little lower than angels; with glory and honor you crowned him, and appointed him over the works of your hands. 9 but we "behold Jesus, who has been made a little lower than angels".
Hebrews 5:6, 5:10, & 6:20 say Jesus is after the Order of Melchizedek (another name for Archangel Michael)

Third person tense using "him"=another.
Matthew 4:10«Then Jesus said to him, «Away with you, Satan! For IT IS WRITTEN,«You shall worship the Lord your God, and "Him" only you shall serve.»

John 5:30 I can of my own self do, nothing.

John 14:12 The works I do, you can do, and greater

John 16:23 You shall ask me for nothing

John 16:26 I do not say that I will pray to the Father for you

John 5:3I If I bear witness about myself, my witness is false

Luke 12:14 Who made me judge or divider over you ?

Mark 12:26 And as for the dead being raised, have you not read in the book of Moses, in the passage about the bush, how God said to him, 'I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob'?
Here Jesus is talking in verse 24-26 he talks about how G-d said to him not saying ‘I said to him’ clearly a distinction that G-d is another person refering to "him" as another.

The "why did you foresake me" speach is as obvious as it gets unless you say he talks to himself.

I can go on all day with verses but it's very clear in the OT.
Numbers 23:19.The Hebrew reads:
lo ish el vichazev u-vein-adam v'yitnechamGod is not a man, nor will he lie, nor is he mortal, nor will he relent.
Jesus was a lie about a mere man who lied and who relented.
Jesus isn't even an actual singular historical figure, none of the christ figures used for his accounts ever claimed to be Creator of Creation.

I have shown you where He said He is God. Like I also said, you may disagree with Him, but He made it clear.

Who's he?
Name a SINGULAR historical person not the generic IeSous(Jesus).
What era did this historical figure live in?
How old was he when he died?
Give me Historical facts not mythology.
There were many christs, so please name yours.

Clearly I am speaking of the Christ who is named in Scripture and am making the case that He claimed to be God, many times.

There are at least 4-5 christs converged-compiled in your NT even Acts talks of 2 other Christs (Yehuda the Galilean & Theudas by the Jordan)who happened to be used for the image Jesus.
Even Paul and James are at odds claiming each is worshiping a different Christ then they are, while the NT states there was a church of Satan that existed as in worshiping a christ that they thought impostered or was adversary theirs.
Your Resurrection acct is also problematic, because
1)it's self testified and you'd be going against his word not to self testify.
2)to compete with mythologies and explain a dying failed figure and being they borrowed Baal's mythology, meant the son of Baal rose from the dead like Baal his father did in his predated recorded passion play. (source of which I already supplied)
2) They did not recognize the body-persona
in this story your trinity is busted.
Because if he returned(hashev) then that was a forth and returning again later would be a fifth as even they claimed it would be another with a new name(hashem).
Furthermore it would mean Satan got his way making Jesus popular lifting him higher then god by appearing as his resurrection or creating his resurrection story. In fact the whole claim to being eternal through belief in Jesus is warned about in the Genesis Serpent story, exact same promise and symbolic representation.

Except Jesus made it clear that He was NOT working by the power of Satan, because Satan would not cast out Satan. A house divided against itself will fall. Next.

Let's review. Scripture makes it clear that Jesus identified Himself as God and He appeared in His resurrected body to many people at the same time, clearly identified as the same one who was executed mere days before. Now, you can disagree with the Scriptures, but you cannot use them to claim that Jesus is a created being or that He is less than divine.

 

[HaShev]

So Constantine who had an extensive love and library for many cultures religions decides the divinity through predated stories and you thus are a dupe for what you are told.
Lazy people are deceived, but worse are people when told or corrected choose to turn blind due to affiliation pride.
Darkness=lies and ignorance.
The jesus myth and Roman (adversary)tampering and converging into one world religion deceived the 1/3 leading them into their darkness.
If you disagree then you are calling your NT and preachers a lien because they teach this to occur in our day, never realizing it was spoken of present tense in their day. Occuring around 70 ad.
Sources:
Luke 21:24 & Romans 11:25 and history of that era show that
Revelation 11:1-3 occurred already in aprox 70 ad.
Also John of Patmos wrote
the anti christ(anointed) was there in his day=Rome who destroyed the authority of the anointed Priests & the Temple.

 

[kjw47]

Then please explain how God has a God--because Jesus does--John 20:17( in the flesh) --- (rev 3:12--while in heaven as a spirit)---And Why after he hands back the kingdom to his God and Father that Jesus subjects himself, forever 1Cor 15:24-28)

Did you not see where He set aside His authority and humbled Himself to become one of us?

Yes he was prince of all angels, he became lower than the angels( mortal) Hebrews 2:7)--- he died and paid the wages of sin he did not owe( the ransom sacrifice)And received- a 1000 year kingship and a bride of Christ( little flock-Luke 12:32) = 144,000)
You see the ot clearly teaches--God is king of eternity---If Jesus were that God, he could not be appointed to a kingship( Dan 7:13-15) he already would be king. But not only is he appointed, he must hand it back to his God as well( 1Cor 15:24-28)--- so how does God have a God, yet there only be one God?

How many times must I repeat it? Jesus set aside His authority and submitted to God, just as we all must do. Otherwise He could hardly be one of us, could He?

Jesus went back to being a spirit at his resurrection. He hadn't even become king yet at that point--not until Rev 6--post war in heaven.

There's no scriptural evidence of that!!!!

1Peter 3:18--- put to death in the flesh, but made alive in the spirit.
Rev 6--he receives his crown.

 

[kjw47]

Then please explain how God has a God--because Jesus does--John 20:17( in the flesh) --- (rev 3:12--while in heaven as a spirit)---And Why after he hands back the kingdom to his God and Father that Jesus subjects himself, forever 1Cor 15:24-28)

Did you not see where He set aside His authority and humbled Himself to become one of us?

Yes he was prince of all angels, he became lower than the angels( mortal) Hebrews 2:7)--- he died and paid the wages of sin he did not owe( the ransom sacrifice)And received- a 1000 year kingship and a bride of Christ( little flock-Luke 12:32) = 144,000)
You see the ot clearly teaches--God is king of eternity---If Jesus were that God, he could not be appointed to a kingship( Dan 7:13-15) he already would be king. But not only is he appointed, he must hand it back to his God as well( 1Cor 15:24-28)--- so how does God have a God, yet there only be one God?

How many times must I repeat it? Jesus set aside His authority and submitted to God, just as we all must do. Otherwise He could hardly be one of us, could He?

Jesus went back to being a spirit at his resurrection. He hadn't even become king yet at that point--not until Rev 6--post war in heaven.

Actually, no. He presented His physically resurrected body to His disciples, eating with them, allowing them to touch His hands and His side to demonstrate it really was Him.

The first day outside the tomb--Mary didn't recognize Jesus because he was not in his original body. He appeared behind a locked door--physical bodies cannot do that. But he can appear at will in his original body like he did with Thomas.