Question for those who actually believe 'transgenderism' is a real thing?

[Gracie]

It's a difficult thing to understand. For example:

A man wants to be a woman, so becomes one. But still wants to only date or have sex with women. So why become one?

Case in point: Very good friends of mine that I have known for years are both "cross dressers", but call themselves female impersonators. And they do it well. Think Ru Paul sorta guys. They make their own outfits (to die for!), wear wigs, add fake fingernails...go all out in the makeup. They look damn good. And yes, they were a couple. Partners. Not married cuz this was way back when, before it was even considered as a right. One get sick? Family wouldn't let the other anywhere near the other while in the hospital. They had no rights but were a couple. Very unfair and cruel. But that's another story.

Anyway...both were aghast and shocked when I asked why they didn't become women all the way. They both said HELL no! They wanted their parts. They just tucked it all away when being a woman. Sometimes they were women during the day and performed at shows at night, sometimes they were men during the day and men at night. But they were gay. Men liking men. So why dress like a woman? I told them it was very confusing for us straighties and they said "no shit. It's confusing for us, too!".

So I don't pretend to know the answers. Neither did they. They just wanted to be themselves and that was fine with me. And when they were dressed as women, they used the MENS restrooms at the clubs where they performed. It was a no brainer to them. Men use mens room. Women use women's. But again, they still had all their parts and they were in a gay club so no problem with the patrons with them doing that. Hell, they could have used the womens restroom if they wanted too with no probs due to the location of where that restroom was.

Anyway....yeah. Confusing.

Now, a man that even as a young child, wanting to play with dolls, have tea parties, wanted ribbons in his hair....is that really a woman trapped in a mans body MENTALLY? Is the brain saying female but the body that came from the womb wound up male? Is that crazy or is that just something that didn't fully develop while in the womb? I ain't a doctor, so I don't know.

I like to keep it simple. IF the male wants to be female, goes to the extreme of being female all the way by surgery...then ok. Female she is because thats some scarey shit to go that length to become something else. Unless you are Bruce Jenner. Then it could be an age thing cuz at 60 years old and now having second thoughts...well....I dunno.
Or a child wanting it done. Is it really the child? Or another influence? Again, I do not know. Not a shrink nor a doc. I accept them, regardless, as long as they accept MY views on certain things. Like suing, insisting on changing the majority to the minority on bathroom usage or bakeries, or apparel changing rooms, etc. Acceptance means both sides accepting.

I digress, I think. Just thinking out loud and still scratching my head about the whole thing. Especially the male wanting to be female but still wanting sex with females AS a female instead of a man. That's just...weird.

 

[Kat]

Are they the same as what used to be called ''Drag Queens''?? I knew many...worked with many...had many as friends, years back. To me they seemed as confused about themselves, as I was about them.

 

[Gracie]

Yes. Drag queens. And damn good at it too.

Oh, the stories I could tell about those two, lol. They were tenants of mine when I lived in Oxnard. Huge complex. I knew they were gay when they moved in but they had no clue I knew. Eventually, they came to me when we became friends instead of just landlord and tenant and said they had something to tell me and I said don't bother. I already know.

One short story is this one:

MrG did not have much tolerance for such shenanigans as "queers" as he called them. Until these two. But once I became friends with them and he too, it was a riot to watch them come prancing in our apartment on their night out as women to "pass the daddy test"..which is what they called MrG. He wound up being "daddy". Chris would come in with his high heels, wig, hat, nylons, makeup, all spiffied up and prance around MrG's ez chair and ask "so, daddy? Would you hit on me?" and if MrG nodded...he passed the "you look awesome" test. If MrG said "go tuck some more or whateverthefuckyoudo", that meant something was askew or not quite right. Chris always passed, lol. Randy though...he didn't. Prolly cuz he was 6'2" and was skinny with no ass. But MrG always told him whatever it was that was lacking and he would go back to his apartment to fix it, then come back, do the prance-around-the-ezchair for "Daddy" and if he got a nod or a grunt.....he would clap his hands and both would hug him and say "thanks Dad!" and off they would go to their pub. Sometimes, "Daddy" would pat one of them on the ass as they passed by.....which mean both looked mighty fine, lol.
They raided my closet often too. I had killer clothes, myself.

 

[OffensivelyOpenMinded]

It's a difficult thing to understand. For example:

A man wants to be a woman, so becomes one. But still wants to only date or have sex with women. So why become one?

Case in point: Very good friends of mine that I have known for years are both "cross dressers", but call themselves female impersonators. And they do it well. Think Ru Paul sorta guys. They make their own outfits (to die for!), wear wigs, add fake fingernails...go all out in the makeup. They look damn good. And yes, they were a couple. Partners. Not married cuz this was way back when, before it was even considered as a right. One get sick? Family wouldn't let the other anywhere near the other while in the hospital. They had no rights but were a couple. Very unfair and cruel. But that's another story.

Anyway...both were aghast and shocked when I asked why they didn't become women all the way. They both said HELL no! They wanted their parts. They just tucked it all away when being a woman. Sometimes they were women during the day and performed at shows at night, sometimes they were men during the day and men at night. But they were gay. Men liking men. So why dress like a woman? I told them it was very confusing for us straighties and they said "no shit. It's confusing for us, too!".

So I don't pretend to know the answers. Neither did they. They just wanted to be themselves and that was fine with me. And when they were dressed as women, they used the MENS restrooms at the clubs where they performed. It was a no brainer to them. Men use mens room. Women use women's. But again, they still had all their parts and they were in a gay club so no problem with the patrons with them doing that. Hell, they could have used the womens restroom if they wanted too with no probs due to the location of where that restroom was.

Anyway....yeah. Confusing.

Now, a man that even as a young child, wanting to play with dolls, have tea parties, wanted ribbons in his hair....is that really a woman trapped in a mans body MENTALLY? Is the brain saying female but the body that came from the womb wound up male? Is that crazy or is that just something that didn't fully develop while in the womb? I ain't a doctor, so I don't know.

I like to keep it simple. IF the male wants to be female, goes to the extreme of being female all the way by surgery...then ok. Female she is because thats some scarey shit to go that length to become something else. Unless you are Bruce Jenner. Then it could be an age thing cuz at 60 years old and now having second thoughts...well....I dunno.
Or a child wanting it done. Is it really the child? Or another influence? Again, I do not know. Not a shrink nor a doc. I accept them, regardless, as long as they accept MY views on certain things. Like suing, insisting on changing the majority to the minority on bathroom usage or bakeries, or apparel changing rooms, etc. Acceptance means both sides accepting.

I digress, I think. Just thinking out loud and still scratching my head about the whole thing. Especially the male wanting to be female but still wanting sex with females AS a female instead of a man. That's just...weird.

They couldn't become women all the way, ma'am. Just like they cant today. And back then, nobody was trying to convince them they were born in the wrong body..so they knew this. If they were growing up today, your two friends would have been pumped full of hormones and preparing to get their penis inverted and their huevos mutilated.

 

[Gracie]

It's a difficult thing to understand. For example:

A man wants to be a woman, so becomes one. But still wants to only date or have sex with women. So why become one?

Case in point: Very good friends of mine that I have known for years are both "cross dressers", but call themselves female impersonators. And they do it well. Think Ru Paul sorta guys. They make their own outfits (to die for!), wear wigs, add fake fingernails...go all out in the makeup. They look damn good. And yes, they were a couple. Partners. Not married cuz this was way back when, before it was even considered as a right. One get sick? Family wouldn't let the other anywhere near the other while in the hospital. They had no rights but were a couple. Very unfair and cruel. But that's another story.

Anyway...both were aghast and shocked when I asked why they didn't become women all the way. They both said HELL no! They wanted their parts. They just tucked it all away when being a woman. Sometimes they were women during the day and performed at shows at night, sometimes they were men during the day and men at night. But they were gay. Men liking men. So why dress like a woman? I told them it was very confusing for us straighties and they said "no shit. It's confusing for us, too!".

So I don't pretend to know the answers. Neither did they. They just wanted to be themselves and that was fine with me. And when they were dressed as women, they used the MENS restrooms at the clubs where they performed. It was a no brainer to them. Men use mens room. Women use women's. But again, they still had all their parts and they were in a gay club so no problem with the patrons with them doing that. Hell, they could have used the womens restroom if they wanted too with no probs due to the location of where that restroom was.

Anyway....yeah. Confusing.

Now, a man that even as a young child, wanting to play with dolls, have tea parties, wanted ribbons in his hair....is that really a woman trapped in a mans body MENTALLY? Is the brain saying female but the body that came from the womb wound up male? Is that crazy or is that just something that didn't fully develop while in the womb? I ain't a doctor, so I don't know.

I like to keep it simple. IF the male wants to be female, goes to the extreme of being female all the way by surgery...then ok. Female she is because thats some scarey shit to go that length to become something else. Unless you are Bruce Jenner. Then it could be an age thing cuz at 60 years old and now having second thoughts...well....I dunno.
Or a child wanting it done. Is it really the child? Or another influence? Again, I do not know. Not a shrink nor a doc. I accept them, regardless, as long as they accept MY views on certain things. Like suing, insisting on changing the majority to the minority on bathroom usage or bakeries, or apparel changing rooms, etc. Acceptance means both sides accepting.

I digress, I think. Just thinking out loud and still scratching my head about the whole thing. Especially the male wanting to be female but still wanting sex with females AS a female instead of a man. That's just...weird.

They couldn't become women all the way, ma'am. Just like they cant today. And back then, nobody was trying to convince them they were born in the wrong body..so they knew this. If they were growing up today, your two friends would have been pumped full of hormones and preparing to get their penis inverted and their huevos mutilated.

Nope. They both said no way would they whack off their penises. Nope nope nope. And no hormones either. And it was done back then by one guy but I forgot his name. First ever man to become woman. This was back in the 50's I think.

They were just two gay guys that liked dressing as women. And they made a lot of money back then too. This was WAY before RuPaul.

 

[Gracie]

This guy:

Christine Jorgensen - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[OffensivelyOpenMinded]

It's a difficult thing to understand. For example:

A man wants to be a woman, so becomes one. But still wants to only date or have sex with women. So why become one?

Case in point: Very good friends of mine that I have known for years are both "cross dressers", but call themselves female impersonators. And they do it well. Think Ru Paul sorta guys. They make their own outfits (to die for!), wear wigs, add fake fingernails...go all out in the makeup. They look damn good. And yes, they were a couple. Partners. Not married cuz this was way back when, before it was even considered as a right. One get sick? Family wouldn't let the other anywhere near the other while in the hospital. They had no rights but were a couple. Very unfair and cruel. But that's another story.

Anyway...both were aghast and shocked when I asked why they didn't become women all the way. They both said HELL no! They wanted their parts. They just tucked it all away when being a woman. Sometimes they were women during the day and performed at shows at night, sometimes they were men during the day and men at night. But they were gay. Men liking men. So why dress like a woman? I told them it was very confusing for us straighties and they said "no shit. It's confusing for us, too!".

So I don't pretend to know the answers. Neither did they. They just wanted to be themselves and that was fine with me. And when they were dressed as women, they used the MENS restrooms at the clubs where they performed. It was a no brainer to them. Men use mens room. Women use women's. But again, they still had all their parts and they were in a gay club so no problem with the patrons with them doing that. Hell, they could have used the womens restroom if they wanted too with no probs due to the location of where that restroom was.

Anyway....yeah. Confusing.

Now, a man that even as a young child, wanting to play with dolls, have tea parties, wanted ribbons in his hair....is that really a woman trapped in a mans body MENTALLY? Is the brain saying female but the body that came from the womb wound up male? Is that crazy or is that just something that didn't fully develop while in the womb? I ain't a doctor, so I don't know.

I like to keep it simple. IF the male wants to be female, goes to the extreme of being female all the way by surgery...then ok. Female she is because thats some scarey shit to go that length to become something else. Unless you are Bruce Jenner. Then it could be an age thing cuz at 60 years old and now having second thoughts...well....I dunno.
Or a child wanting it done. Is it really the child? Or another influence? Again, I do not know. Not a shrink nor a doc. I accept them, regardless, as long as they accept MY views on certain things. Like suing, insisting on changing the majority to the minority on bathroom usage or bakeries, or apparel changing rooms, etc. Acceptance means both sides accepting.

I digress, I think. Just thinking out loud and still scratching my head about the whole thing. Especially the male wanting to be female but still wanting sex with females AS a female instead of a man. That's just...weird.

They couldn't become women all the way, ma'am. Just like they cant today. And back then, nobody was trying to convince them they were born in the wrong body..so they knew this. If they were growing up today, your two friends would have been pumped full of hormones and preparing to get their penis inverted and their huevos mutilated.

Nope. They both said no way would they whack off their penises. Nope nope nope. And no hormones either. And it was done back then by one guy but I forgot his name. First ever man to become woman. This was back in the 50's I think.

They were just two gay guys that liked dressing as women. And they made a lot of money back then too. This was WAY before RuPaul.

My mother tells me I had a second cousin that was a drag queen in Vegas, I'd never met him..but that's how she said he was. Just a gay dude who liked to dress like a woman. He died of AIDs some years back.

It's a difficult thing to understand. For example:

A man wants to be a woman, so becomes one. But still wants to only date or have sex with women. So why become one?

Case in point: Very good friends of mine that I have known for years are both "cross dressers", but call themselves female impersonators. And they do it well. Think Ru Paul sorta guys. They make their own outfits (to die for!), wear wigs, add fake fingernails...go all out in the makeup. They look damn good. And yes, they were a couple. Partners. Not married cuz this was way back when, before it was even considered as a right. One get sick? Family wouldn't let the other anywhere near the other while in the hospital. They had no rights but were a couple. Very unfair and cruel. But that's another story.

Anyway...both were aghast and shocked when I asked why they didn't become women all the way. They both said HELL no! They wanted their parts. They just tucked it all away when being a woman. Sometimes they were women during the day and performed at shows at night, sometimes they were men during the day and men at night. But they were gay. Men liking men. So why dress like a woman? I told them it was very confusing for us straighties and they said "no shit. It's confusing for us, too!".

So I don't pretend to know the answers. Neither did they. They just wanted to be themselves and that was fine with me. And when they were dressed as women, they used the MENS restrooms at the clubs where they performed. It was a no brainer to them. Men use mens room. Women use women's. But again, they still had all their parts and they were in a gay club so no problem with the patrons with them doing that. Hell, they could have used the womens restroom if they wanted too with no probs due to the location of where that restroom was.

Anyway....yeah. Confusing.

Now, a man that even as a young child, wanting to play with dolls, have tea parties, wanted ribbons in his hair....is that really a woman trapped in a mans body MENTALLY? Is the brain saying female but the body that came from the womb wound up male? Is that crazy or is that just something that didn't fully develop while in the womb? I ain't a doctor, so I don't know.

I like to keep it simple. IF the male wants to be female, goes to the extreme of being female all the way by surgery...then ok. Female she is because thats some scarey shit to go that length to become something else. Unless you are Bruce Jenner. Then it could be an age thing cuz at 60 years old and now having second thoughts...well....I dunno.
Or a child wanting it done. Is it really the child? Or another influence? Again, I do not know. Not a shrink nor a doc. I accept them, regardless, as long as they accept MY views on certain things. Like suing, insisting on changing the majority to the minority on bathroom usage or bakeries, or apparel changing rooms, etc. Acceptance means both sides accepting.

I digress, I think. Just thinking out loud and still scratching my head about the whole thing. Especially the male wanting to be female but still wanting sex with females AS a female instead of a man. That's just...weird.

They couldn't become women all the way, ma'am. Just like they cant today. And back then, nobody was trying to convince them they were born in the wrong body..so they knew this. If they were growing up today, your two friends would have been pumped full of hormones and preparing to get their penis inverted and their huevos mutilated.

Nope. They both said no way would they whack off their penises. Nope nope nope. And no hormones either. And it was done back then by one guy but I forgot his name. First ever man to become woman. This was back in the 50's I think.

They were just two gay guys that liked dressing as women. And they made a lot of money back then too. This was WAY before RuPaul.

I believe the first surgeries done inside the United States didn't happen until 1965-66 at Johns Hopkins. By the way, they don't do them there anymore because the operations have not been shown to benefit these people in any way, they still have extremely high suicide rates post-op. It's a useless procedure. A lot of times their artificial vaginas close up(because all it really is, is a wound), get horribly painful infections, all kinds of stuff goes wrong.

This stuff should not be normalized. Its one thing to be gay....transgenderism is a mental illness and should be treated as such. I know that sounds cruel, but that's the right thing to do. You don't encourage mental illness.

 

[flacaltenn]

On the issue of transgenderism, leftists seem to deny some aspects of the science and enshrine others: the existence of sex chromosome abnormalities and other disorders of sexual development (DSDs) are seen as "proof" of multiple genders....despite the fact that most people who carry these abnormalities do not suffer from gender dysphoria (the DSM 5 diagnosis assigned to transgenderism).

Why do the leftists here completely ignore the fact that the vast majority of the people who have these abnormalities do not suffer from gender dysphoria and try to pretend as if the science is settled?

Also why do you guys lie and say Transgenderism a.k.a Gender Dysphoria is not in the DSM?

What benefit do you get from lying and denying scientific facts and statistics?

Because it's NOT just chromosome disorders. It's varying magnitudes of hormonal production, size or variance in genitalia, etc. It could be actually psychological as well as physical. There's a LOT to sort out before you can DECLARE a patient an actual candidate for transgender status.. From the Psych view of it ------


Diagnosis of Gender Dysphoria
By Dr Ananya Mandal, MD

Gender dysphoria is a condition where then person identifies himself or herself with the opposite of their original biological sex. This is not a mental disorder. However, some people may need therapy.

Diagnosis of gender dysphoria is thus important to rule out other concurrent or underlying mental disorders like anxiety, depression etc. (1)

A multidisciplinary team is required for diagnosis
Assessment of persons with gender dysphoria and diagnosis of the condition is a multidisciplinary action.

A detailed psychiatric history, psychosexual development and behavior history, neuropsychological testing and behavioral analysis may be needed.

The team may comprise of:

Psychiatrists
Psychologists
Neurologists
Endocrinologists (who specialize in hormonal functions)
Urologists (who specialize in the urinary tract and its abnormalities)
Behavioral and occupation therapists
Counsellors etc.
Gender dysphoria must be separated from homosexuality. Not all persons with gender dysphoria are homosexual. (1, 2)

Two phase diagnosis
Diagnosis may be a challenge since results of psychological testing may not be conclusive.

The International Harry Benjamin Gender Dysphoria Association lays down guidelines for a two phase diagnosis. (1)

Phase I – Diagnosis is based on the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual for Mental Disorders IV (Text Revision) or DSM – IV TR.
Phase II – Here the patient is assessed if he or she can live in the desired sex role permanently. This involves family information and counselling and name change. Hormonal therapy, gender re-assignation surgery and psychotherapy is administered as needed.

Ruling out other diagnosis
Differential diagnosis or other diagnosis that need to be ruled out during assessment of a suspected person with gender dysphoria include (1):–

Nonconformity to stereotypical sex role behaviors
Transvestic fetishism – The person may have a sexual fetish with cross dressing
Concurrent congenital intersex condition – The person may have ambiguous genitalia
Schizophrenia

So to GET to a clinical diagnosis as a TRUE Transexual candidate --- you must first rule out fetishes, simple behavioural issues, Schizoids, Depression, anxiety OR ACTUAL PHYSICAL birth conditions..

People with actual OBSERVABLE and MEASURABLE physical abnormalities have to have a medical team decide the feasibility of moving in EITHER direction. Improving the BORN condition -- or transitioning to the OPPOSITE condition.

Lots of moving parts. ALL of them SANE and somewhat scientific. No yelling and screaming required..

 

[Gracie]

From the stuff I have read lately...I sort of agree. Once they whack it off..no more orgasms. Ever. And they are doomed to be women forever. It ain't easy being a woman. I think your cousin and my two friends enjoyed doing their thang without having to suffer such pain after doing something so damn serious as a surgery. Jenner got implants...whats he going to do? Go under the knife and have them removed? And if he wants sex with women, how is he going to have any enjoyment from that with no pecker? It just doesn't make any sense to me. Be gay. Stop mutilating your bodies.

 

[Gracie]

I believe they also have to live 24/7 as a woman before surgery is done, too. Unless that is old procedures from today's requirements. Nowadays, just give the kid some hormones so they grow boobs, haul them to shrinks and shuffle them off to the hospital when they turn 18. Unless they are already adult and went thru all that AFTER coming of age.

 

[OffensivelyOpenMinded]

On the issue of transgenderism, leftists seem to deny some aspects of the science and enshrine others: the existence of sex chromosome abnormalities and other disorders of sexual development (DSDs) are seen as "proof" of multiple genders....despite the fact that most people who carry these abnormalities do not suffer from gender dysphoria (the DSM 5 diagnosis assigned to transgenderism).

Why do the leftists here completely ignore the fact that the vast majority of the people who have these abnormalities do not suffer from gender dysphoria and try to pretend as if the science is settled?

Also why do you guys lie and say Transgenderism a.k.a Gender Dysphoria is not in the DSM?

What benefit do you get from lying and denying scientific facts and statistics?

Because it's NOT just chromosome disorders. It's varying magnitudes of hormonal production, size or variance in genitalia, etc. It could be actually psychological as well as physical. There's a LOT to sort out before you can DECLARE a patient an actual candidate for transgender status.. From the Psych view of it ------


Diagnosis of Gender Dysphoria
By Dr Ananya Mandal, MD

Gender dysphoria is a condition where then person identifies himself or herself with the opposite of their original biological sex. This is not a mental disorder. However, some people may need therapy.

Diagnosis of gender dysphoria is thus important to rule out other concurrent or underlying mental disorders like anxiety, depression etc. (1)

A multidisciplinary team is required for diagnosis
Assessment of persons with gender dysphoria and diagnosis of the condition is a multidisciplinary action.

A detailed psychiatric history, psychosexual development and behavior history, neuropsychological testing and behavioral analysis may be needed.

The team may comprise of:

Psychiatrists
Psychologists
Neurologists
Endocrinologists (who specialize in hormonal functions)
Urologists (who specialize in the urinary tract and its abnormalities)
Behavioral and occupation therapists
Counsellors etc.
Gender dysphoria must be separated from homosexuality. Not all persons with gender dysphoria are homosexual. (1, 2)

Two phase diagnosis
Diagnosis may be a challenge since results of psychological testing may not be conclusive.

The International Harry Benjamin Gender Dysphoria Association lays down guidelines for a two phase diagnosis. (1)

Phase I – Diagnosis is based on the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual for Mental Disorders IV (Text Revision) or DSM – IV TR.
Phase II – Here the patient is assessed if he or she can live in the desired sex role permanently. This involves family information and counselling and name change. Hormonal therapy, gender re-assignation surgery and psychotherapy is administered as needed.

Ruling out other diagnosis
Differential diagnosis or other diagnosis that need to be ruled out during assessment of a suspected person with gender dysphoria include (1):–

Nonconformity to stereotypical sex role behaviors
Transvestic fetishism – The person may have a sexual fetish with cross dressing
Concurrent congenital intersex condition – The person may have ambiguous genitalia
Schizophrenia

So to GET to a clinical diagnosis as a TRUE Transexual candidate --- you must first rule out fetishes, simple behavioural issues, Schizoids, Depression, anxiety OR ACTUAL PHYSICAL birth conditions..

People with actual OBSERVABLE and MEASURABLE physical abnormalities have to have a medical team decide the feasibility of moving in EITHER direction. Improving the BORN condition -- or transitioning to the OPPOSITE condition.

Lots of moving parts. ALL of them SANE and somewhat scientific. No yelling and screaming required..

I didn't say it was just hormonal..
Copy and pasted OP:
"

On the issue of transgenderism, leftists seem to deny some aspects of the science and enshrine others: the existence of sex chromosome abnormalities and other disorders of sexual development (DSDs) are seen as "proof" of multiple genders....despite the fact that most people who carry these abnormalities do not suffer from gender dysphoria (the DSM 5 diagnosis assigned to transgenderism).

Why do the leftists here completely ignore the fact that the vast majority of the people who have these abnormalities do not suffer from gender dysphoria and try to pretend as if the science is settled?

Also why do you guys lie and say Transgenderism a.k.a Gender Dysphoria is not in the DSM?

What benefit do you get from lying and denying scientific facts and statistics?

Because it's NOT just chromosome disorders. It's varying magnitudes of hormonal production, size or variance in genitalia, etc. It could be actually psychological as well as physical. There's a LOT to sort out before you can DECLARE a patient an actual candidate for transgender status.. From the Psych view of it ------


Diagnosis of Gender Dysphoria
By Dr Ananya Mandal, MD

Gender dysphoria is a condition where then person identifies himself or herself with the opposite of their original biological sex. This is not a mental disorder. However, some people may need therapy.

Diagnosis of gender dysphoria is thus important to rule out other concurrent or underlying mental disorders like anxiety, depression etc. (1)

A multidisciplinary team is required for diagnosis
Assessment of persons with gender dysphoria and diagnosis of the condition is a multidisciplinary action.

A detailed psychiatric history, psychosexual development and behavior history, neuropsychological testing and behavioral analysis may be needed.

The team may comprise of:

Psychiatrists
Psychologists
Neurologists
Endocrinologists (who specialize in hormonal functions)
Urologists (who specialize in the urinary tract and its abnormalities)
Behavioral and occupation therapists
Counsellors etc.
Gender dysphoria must be separated from homosexuality. Not all persons with gender dysphoria are homosexual. (1, 2)

Two phase diagnosis
Diagnosis may be a challenge since results of psychological testing may not be conclusive.

The International Harry Benjamin Gender Dysphoria Association lays down guidelines for a two phase diagnosis. (1)

Phase I – Diagnosis is based on the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual for Mental Disorders IV (Text Revision) or DSM – IV TR.
Phase II – Here the patient is assessed if he or she can live in the desired sex role permanently. This involves family information and counselling and name change. Hormonal therapy, gender re-assignation surgery and psychotherapy is administered as needed.

Ruling out other diagnosis
Differential diagnosis or other diagnosis that need to be ruled out during assessment of a suspected person with gender dysphoria include (1):–

Nonconformity to stereotypical sex role behaviors
Transvestic fetishism – The person may have a sexual fetish with cross dressing
Concurrent congenital intersex condition – The person may have ambiguous genitalia
Schizophrenia

So to GET to a clinical diagnosis as a TRUE Transexual candidate --- you must first rule out fetishes, simple behavioural issues, Schizoids, Depression, anxiety OR ACTUAL PHYSICAL birth conditions..

People with actual OBSERVABLE and MEASURABLE physical abnormalities have to have a medical team decide the feasibility of moving in EITHER direction. Improving the BORN condition -- or transitioning to the OPPOSITE condition.

Lots of moving parts. ALL of them SANE and somewhat scientific. No yelling and screaming required..

Bro...I didn't say it was only hormonal abnormalities. Read it again(pay attention to the *'s):
"On the issue of transgenderism, leftists seem to deny some aspects of the science and enshrine others: the existence of sex chromosome abnormalities *and other disorders of sexual development (DSDs)* are seen as "proof" of multiple genders....despite the fact that most people who carry these abnormalities do not suffer from gender dysphoria (the DSM 5 diagnosis assigned to transgenderism).

Why do the leftists here completely ignore the fact that the vast majority of the people who have these abnormalities do not suffer from gender dysphoria and try to pretend as if the science is settled?

Also why do you guys lie and say Transgenderism a.k.a Gender Dysphoria is not in the DSM?

What benefit do you get from lying and denying scientific facts and statistics?"

 

[OffensivelyOpenMinded]

From the stuff I have read lately...I sort of agree. Once they whack it off..no more orgasms. Ever. And they are doomed to be women forever. It ain't easy being a woman. I think your cousin and my two friends enjoyed doing their thang without having to suffer such pain after doing something so damn serious as a surgery. Jenner got implants...whats he going to do? Go under the knife and have them removed? And if he wants sex with women, how is he going to have any enjoyment from that with no pecker? It just doesn't make any sense to me. Be gay. Stop mutilating your bodies.

Ma'am they aren't ever women. They are just male eunuchs with breasts. And yes, I assume it was just something he did for fun. I don't know though, never met him.

 

[flacaltenn]

On the issue of transgenderism, leftists seem to deny some aspects of the science and enshrine others: the existence of sex chromosome abnormalities and other disorders of sexual development (DSDs) are seen as "proof" of multiple genders....despite the fact that most people who carry these abnormalities do not suffer from gender dysphoria (the DSM 5 diagnosis assigned to transgenderism).

Why do the leftists here completely ignore the fact that the vast majority of the people who have these abnormalities do not suffer from gender dysphoria and try to pretend as if the science is settled?

Also why do you guys lie and say Transgenderism a.k.a Gender Dysphoria is not in the DSM?

What benefit do you get from lying and denying scientific facts and statistics?

Because it's NOT just chromosome disorders. It's varying magnitudes of hormonal production, size or variance in genitalia, etc. It could be actually psychological as well as physical. There's a LOT to sort out before you can DECLARE a patient an actual candidate for transgender status.. From the Psych view of it ------


Diagnosis of Gender Dysphoria
By Dr Ananya Mandal, MD

Gender dysphoria is a condition where then person identifies himself or herself with the opposite of their original biological sex. This is not a mental disorder. However, some people may need therapy.

Diagnosis of gender dysphoria is thus important to rule out other concurrent or underlying mental disorders like anxiety, depression etc. (1)

A multidisciplinary team is required for diagnosis
Assessment of persons with gender dysphoria and diagnosis of the condition is a multidisciplinary action.

A detailed psychiatric history, psychosexual development and behavior history, neuropsychological testing and behavioral analysis may be needed.

The team may comprise of:

Psychiatrists
Psychologists
Neurologists
Endocrinologists (who specialize in hormonal functions)
Urologists (who specialize in the urinary tract and its abnormalities)
Behavioral and occupation therapists
Counsellors etc.
Gender dysphoria must be separated from homosexuality. Not all persons with gender dysphoria are homosexual. (1, 2)

Two phase diagnosis
Diagnosis may be a challenge since results of psychological testing may not be conclusive.

The International Harry Benjamin Gender Dysphoria Association lays down guidelines for a two phase diagnosis. (1)

Phase I – Diagnosis is based on the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual for Mental Disorders IV (Text Revision) or DSM – IV TR.
Phase II – Here the patient is assessed if he or she can live in the desired sex role permanently. This involves family information and counselling and name change. Hormonal therapy, gender re-assignation surgery and psychotherapy is administered as needed.

Ruling out other diagnosis
Differential diagnosis or other diagnosis that need to be ruled out during assessment of a suspected person with gender dysphoria include (1):–

Nonconformity to stereotypical sex role behaviors
Transvestic fetishism – The person may have a sexual fetish with cross dressing
Concurrent congenital intersex condition – The person may have ambiguous genitalia
Schizophrenia

So to GET to a clinical diagnosis as a TRUE Transexual candidate --- you must first rule out fetishes, simple behavioural issues, Schizoids, Depression, anxiety OR ACTUAL PHYSICAL birth conditions..

People with actual OBSERVABLE and MEASURABLE physical abnormalities have to have a medical team decide the feasibility of moving in EITHER direction. Improving the BORN condition -- or transitioning to the OPPOSITE condition.

Lots of moving parts. ALL of them SANE and somewhat scientific. No yelling and screaming required..

I didn't say it was just hormonal..
Copy and pasted OP:
"

On the issue of transgenderism, leftists seem to deny some aspects of the science and enshrine others: the existence of sex chromosome abnormalities and other disorders of sexual development (DSDs) are seen as "proof" of multiple genders....despite the fact that most people who carry these abnormalities do not suffer from gender dysphoria (the DSM 5 diagnosis assigned to transgenderism).

Why do the leftists here completely ignore the fact that the vast majority of the people who have these abnormalities do not suffer from gender dysphoria and try to pretend as if the science is settled?

Also why do you guys lie and say Transgenderism a.k.a Gender Dysphoria is not in the DSM?

What benefit do you get from lying and denying scientific facts and statistics?

Because it's NOT just chromosome disorders. It's varying magnitudes of hormonal production, size or variance in genitalia, etc. It could be actually psychological as well as physical. There's a LOT to sort out before you can DECLARE a patient an actual candidate for transgender status.. From the Psych view of it ------


Diagnosis of Gender Dysphoria
By Dr Ananya Mandal, MD

Gender dysphoria is a condition where then person identifies himself or herself with the opposite of their original biological sex. This is not a mental disorder. However, some people may need therapy.

Diagnosis of gender dysphoria is thus important to rule out other concurrent or underlying mental disorders like anxiety, depression etc. (1)

A multidisciplinary team is required for diagnosis
Assessment of persons with gender dysphoria and diagnosis of the condition is a multidisciplinary action.

A detailed psychiatric history, psychosexual development and behavior history, neuropsychological testing and behavioral analysis may be needed.

The team may comprise of:

Psychiatrists
Psychologists
Neurologists
Endocrinologists (who specialize in hormonal functions)
Urologists (who specialize in the urinary tract and its abnormalities)
Behavioral and occupation therapists
Counsellors etc.
Gender dysphoria must be separated from homosexuality. Not all persons with gender dysphoria are homosexual. (1, 2)

Two phase diagnosis
Diagnosis may be a challenge since results of psychological testing may not be conclusive.

The International Harry Benjamin Gender Dysphoria Association lays down guidelines for a two phase diagnosis. (1)

Phase I – Diagnosis is based on the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual for Mental Disorders IV (Text Revision) or DSM – IV TR.
Phase II – Here the patient is assessed if he or she can live in the desired sex role permanently. This involves family information and counselling and name change. Hormonal therapy, gender re-assignation surgery and psychotherapy is administered as needed.

Ruling out other diagnosis
Differential diagnosis or other diagnosis that need to be ruled out during assessment of a suspected person with gender dysphoria include (1):–

Nonconformity to stereotypical sex role behaviors
Transvestic fetishism – The person may have a sexual fetish with cross dressing
Concurrent congenital intersex condition – The person may have ambiguous genitalia
Schizophrenia

So to GET to a clinical diagnosis as a TRUE Transexual candidate --- you must first rule out fetishes, simple behavioural issues, Schizoids, Depression, anxiety OR ACTUAL PHYSICAL birth conditions..

People with actual OBSERVABLE and MEASURABLE physical abnormalities have to have a medical team decide the feasibility of moving in EITHER direction. Improving the BORN condition -- or transitioning to the OPPOSITE condition.

Lots of moving parts. ALL of them SANE and somewhat scientific. No yelling and screaming required..

Bro...I didn't say it was only hormonal abnormalities. Read it again(pay attention to the *'s):
"On the issue of transgenderism, leftists seem to deny some aspects of the science and enshrine others: the existence of sex chromosome abnormalities *and other disorders of sexual development (DSDs)* are seen as "proof" of multiple genders....despite the fact that most people who carry these abnormalities do not suffer from gender dysphoria (the DSM 5 diagnosis assigned to transgenderism).

Why do the leftists here completely ignore the fact that the vast majority of the people who have these abnormalities do not suffer from gender dysphoria and try to pretend as if the science is settled?

Also why do you guys lie and say Transgenderism a.k.a Gender Dysphoria is not in the DSM?

What benefit do you get from lying and denying scientific facts and statistics?"

Well of course it's in the DSM.. USED to be called a disorder, but they changed that for correctness. BUT it's NOT a mental illness. It's the diagnosis that applies once you RULED OUT all those other confounding possibilities. A simple transvestite or dual personality disorder patient is NOT a candidate trans-sexual. ALL of that stuff gets ruled out before they start considering a BONIFIDE trans-sexual case.

AND -- the presence of birth related abnormalities just makes it more complicated as that drags in a medical team to figure out the feasibility of the 2 possible directions (gender improvement -- gender reassignment).

Makes my eyes glaze over. But it's NOT an EMOTIONAL decision.. It's science man.. You know white coats and pocket protector stuff..

 

[OffensivelyOpenMinded]

Also Flacaltenn,

On the issue of transgenderism, leftists seem to deny some aspects of the science and enshrine others: the existence of sex chromosome abnormalities and other disorders of sexual development (DSDs) are seen as "proof" of multiple genders....despite the fact that most people who carry these abnormalities do not suffer from gender dysphoria (the DSM 5 diagnosis assigned to transgenderism).

Why do the leftists here completely ignore the fact that the vast majority of the people who have these abnormalities do not suffer from gender dysphoria and try to pretend as if the science is settled?

Also why do you guys lie and say Transgenderism a.k.a Gender Dysphoria is not in the DSM?

What benefit do you get from lying and denying scientific facts and statistics?

Because it's NOT just chromosome disorders. It's varying magnitudes of hormonal production, size or variance in genitalia, etc. It could be actually psychological as well as physical. There's a LOT to sort out before you can DECLARE a patient an actual candidate for transgender status.. From the Psych view of it ------


Diagnosis of Gender Dysphoria
By Dr Ananya Mandal, MD

Gender dysphoria is a condition where then person identifies himself or herself with the opposite of their original biological sex. This is not a mental disorder. However, some people may need therapy.

Diagnosis of gender dysphoria is thus important to rule out other concurrent or underlying mental disorders like anxiety, depression etc. (1)

A multidisciplinary team is required for diagnosis
Assessment of persons with gender dysphoria and diagnosis of the condition is a multidisciplinary action.

A detailed psychiatric history, psychosexual development and behavior history, neuropsychological testing and behavioral analysis may be needed.

The team may comprise of:

Psychiatrists
Psychologists
Neurologists
Endocrinologists (who specialize in hormonal functions)
Urologists (who specialize in the urinary tract and its abnormalities)
Behavioral and occupation therapists
Counsellors etc.
Gender dysphoria must be separated from homosexuality. Not all persons with gender dysphoria are homosexual. (1, 2)

Two phase diagnosis
Diagnosis may be a challenge since results of psychological testing may not be conclusive.

The International Harry Benjamin Gender Dysphoria Association lays down guidelines for a two phase diagnosis. (1)

Phase I – Diagnosis is based on the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual for Mental Disorders IV (Text Revision) or DSM – IV TR.
Phase II – Here the patient is assessed if he or she can live in the desired sex role permanently. This involves family information and counselling and name change. Hormonal therapy, gender re-assignation surgery and psychotherapy is administered as needed.

Ruling out other diagnosis
Differential diagnosis or other diagnosis that need to be ruled out during assessment of a suspected person with gender dysphoria include (1):–

Nonconformity to stereotypical sex role behaviors
Transvestic fetishism – The person may have a sexual fetish with cross dressing
Concurrent congenital intersex condition – The person may have ambiguous genitalia
Schizophrenia

So to GET to a clinical diagnosis as a TRUE Transexual candidate --- you must first rule out fetishes, simple behavioural issues, Schizoids, Depression, anxiety OR ACTUAL PHYSICAL birth conditions..

People with actual OBSERVABLE and MEASURABLE physical abnormalities have to have a medical team decide the feasibility of moving in EITHER direction. Improving the BORN condition -- or transitioning to the OPPOSITE condition.

Lots of moving parts. ALL of them SANE and somewhat scientific. No yelling and screaming required..

I didn't say it was just hormonal..
Copy and pasted OP:
"

On the issue of transgenderism, leftists seem to deny some aspects of the science and enshrine others: the existence of sex chromosome abnormalities and other disorders of sexual development (DSDs) are seen as "proof" of multiple genders....despite the fact that most people who carry these abnormalities do not suffer from gender dysphoria (the DSM 5 diagnosis assigned to transgenderism).

Why do the leftists here completely ignore the fact that the vast majority of the people who have these abnormalities do not suffer from gender dysphoria and try to pretend as if the science is settled?

Also why do you guys lie and say Transgenderism a.k.a Gender Dysphoria is not in the DSM?

What benefit do you get from lying and denying scientific facts and statistics?

Because it's NOT just chromosome disorders. It's varying magnitudes of hormonal production, size or variance in genitalia, etc. It could be actually psychological as well as physical. There's a LOT to sort out before you can DECLARE a patient an actual candidate for transgender status.. From the Psych view of it ------


Diagnosis of Gender Dysphoria
By Dr Ananya Mandal, MD

Gender dysphoria is a condition where then person identifies himself or herself with the opposite of their original biological sex. This is not a mental disorder. However, some people may need therapy.

Diagnosis of gender dysphoria is thus important to rule out other concurrent or underlying mental disorders like anxiety, depression etc. (1)

A multidisciplinary team is required for diagnosis
Assessment of persons with gender dysphoria and diagnosis of the condition is a multidisciplinary action.

A detailed psychiatric history, psychosexual development and behavior history, neuropsychological testing and behavioral analysis may be needed.

The team may comprise of:

Psychiatrists
Psychologists
Neurologists
Endocrinologists (who specialize in hormonal functions)
Urologists (who specialize in the urinary tract and its abnormalities)
Behavioral and occupation therapists
Counsellors etc.
Gender dysphoria must be separated from homosexuality. Not all persons with gender dysphoria are homosexual. (1, 2)

Two phase diagnosis
Diagnosis may be a challenge since results of psychological testing may not be conclusive.

The International Harry Benjamin Gender Dysphoria Association lays down guidelines for a two phase diagnosis. (1)

Phase I – Diagnosis is based on the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual for Mental Disorders IV (Text Revision) or DSM – IV TR.
Phase II – Here the patient is assessed if he or she can live in the desired sex role permanently. This involves family information and counselling and name change. Hormonal therapy, gender re-assignation surgery and psychotherapy is administered as needed.

Ruling out other diagnosis
Differential diagnosis or other diagnosis that need to be ruled out during assessment of a suspected person with gender dysphoria include (1):–

Nonconformity to stereotypical sex role behaviors
Transvestic fetishism – The person may have a sexual fetish with cross dressing
Concurrent congenital intersex condition – The person may have ambiguous genitalia
Schizophrenia

So to GET to a clinical diagnosis as a TRUE Transexual candidate --- you must first rule out fetishes, simple behavioural issues, Schizoids, Depression, anxiety OR ACTUAL PHYSICAL birth conditions..

People with actual OBSERVABLE and MEASURABLE physical abnormalities have to have a medical team decide the feasibility of moving in EITHER direction. Improving the BORN condition -- or transitioning to the OPPOSITE condition.

Lots of moving parts. ALL of them SANE and somewhat scientific. No yelling and screaming required..

Bro...I didn't say it was only hormonal abnormalities. Read it again(pay attention to the *'s):
"On the issue of transgenderism, leftists seem to deny some aspects of the science and enshrine others: the existence of sex chromosome abnormalities *and other disorders of sexual development (DSDs)* are seen as "proof" of multiple genders....despite the fact that most people who carry these abnormalities do not suffer from gender dysphoria (the DSM 5 diagnosis assigned to transgenderism).

Why do the leftists here completely ignore the fact that the vast majority of the people who have these abnormalities do not suffer from gender dysphoria and try to pretend as if the science is settled?

Also why do you guys lie and say Transgenderism a.k.a Gender Dysphoria is not in the DSM?

What benefit do you get from lying and denying scientific facts and statistics?"

Well of course it's in the DSM.. USED to be called a disorder, but they changed that for correctness. BUT it's NOT a mental illness. It's the diagnosis that applies once you RULED OUT all those other confounding possibilities. A simple transvestite or dual personality disorder patient is NOT a candidate trans-sexual. ALL of that stuff gets ruled out before they start considering a BONIFIDE trans-sexual case.

AND -- the presence of birth related abnormalities just makes it more complicated as that drags in a medical team to figure out the feasibility of the 2 possible directions (gender improvement -- gender reassignment).

Makes my eyes glaze over. But it's NOT an EMOTIONAL decision.. It's science man.. You know white coats and pocket protector stuff..

I don't think I or anyone else with any common sense needs eggheads in white coats with pocket protectors to figure out that if you are a male and you think you are a female....something is wrong with your mind. Whatever it is that causes the condition, sure...let scientists figure it out. But I am not going to buy that if someone has those problems that they are mentally healthy. It doesn't even make sense to even try to push that as a legitimate argument, unless you have some sort of agenda of course.

 

[OffensivelyOpenMinded]

Not long ago, dudes used to joke about being male lesbians.. Now we have actual(well somewhat actual) male lesbians..who really do think they are lesbians trapped in the wrong body. It's pretty fucking ridiculous to me.

 

[there4eyeM]

It is a non-issue. The population involved is so small that the rest of us have nothing to fear, or even notice.
Certainly, interested parties are capitalizing on the uproar for various kinds of political gains. Certainly, many of us would agree that 'transgenderism' is psychological. But, what concerning humans is not at least partly psychological? The obsession with firearms, for example, is obviously distorted in many people. Power, money, sex...all these are areas where we see big mental disorders.
Everybody can put up with 0.3% of people who want to dress up 'differently'.

 

[Gracie]

If they are born with this....wire fused wrong in their brain or bodies that say INSIDE they are women (which comes from the brain telling the body that) but the body is male..then it is considered a mental illness. Maybe its the connotation of "mentally ill" that is un pc, but there it is. It's a mental problem. Depression is a mental illness too. Mental. Brain. Problem.

 

[OffensivelyOpenMinded]

It is a non-issue. The population involved is so small that the rest of us have nothing to fear, or even notice.
Certainly, interested parties are capitalizing on the uproar for various kinds of political gains. Certainly, many of us would agree that 'transgenderism' is psychological. But, what concerning humans is not at least partly psychological? The obsession with firearms, for example, is obviously distorted in many people. Power, money, sex...all these are areas where we see big mental disorders.
Everybody can put up with 0.3% of people who want to dress up 'differently'.

If somebody comes up to you and sincerely says "I am Jesus back from the dead" or "I am Einstein return from the grave"...are you going to go along with their delusion or are you going to know that he's not right in the head? And do you think it would be right or wrong for you to play along with their delusions? This issue involves morals and much more. You seem to want to boil it all down to a simple tolerance issue. It's not. There are transgender people teaching college courses for Pete's sake. They give out degrees on transgender studies, and these arent scientific classes...these are marxist social studies classes where they proclaim that straight white christian males are the worlds greatest super villains. Many times these courses are REQUIRED.
One more question, Would you let the guy in my first example teach your children, knowing that he isn't right in the head? I know I wouldn't..

Next thing you'd know...your kid will come home talking the same nonsense he does.and thinking it's truth.

I care about society enough to look deeper into things. Not for easy answers.

Not trying to be a dick, just being blunt.

Thanks for your reply.

 

[OffensivelyOpenMinded]

If they are born with this....wire fused wrong in their brain or bodies that say INSIDE they are women (which comes from the brain telling the body that) but the body is male..then it is considered a mental illness. Maybe its the connotation of "mentally ill" that is un pc, but there it is. It's a mental problem. Depression is a mental illness too. Mental. Brain. Problem.

You don't have to be born with a mental illness, people develop mental illnesses over time too.

But yeah, I agree with most of what you said here.

 

[tyroneweaver]

On the issue of transgenderism, leftists seem to deny some aspects of the science and enshrine others: the existence of sex chromosome abnormalities and other disorders of sexual development (DSDs) are seen as "proof" of multiple genders....despite the fact that most people who carry these abnormalities do not suffer from gender dysphoria (the DSM 5 diagnosis assigned to transgenderism).

Why do the leftists here completely ignore the fact that the vast majority of the people who have these abnormalities do not suffer from gender dysphoria and try to pretend as if the science is settled?

Also why do you guys lie and say Transgenderism a.k.a Gender Dysphoria is not in the DSM?

What benefit do you get from lying and denying scientific facts and statistics?

This fails as a straw man fallacy, and exhibits comprehensive ignorance of the issue – ignorance common to most on the right, as well as the fear common to most conservatives that compel them to seek to disadvantage transgender persons for no other reason than who they are.

This issue has nothing to do with whether transgenderism is ‘real’ or not.

The issue concerns the fundamental right of all Americans to self-determination, the protected liberty afforded all Americans to make fundamental decisions concerning one’s personal, private life absent unwarranted interference from the state.

Again, whether transgenderism is ‘real’ or not is irrelevant – all that matters is that for those transgender, what they’re experiencing is real.

In Lawrence v. Texas the Supreme Court held that whether homosexuality manifests as a consequence of birth or choice is legally and Constitutionally irrelevant – the right of gay Americans to make that choice is immune from attack by the state.

The same is true with regard to transgender Americans, the right to make the choice to be transgender is likewise a protected liberty.

That most on the right seek to violate this right comes as no surprise, of course, as conservatives for the most part fear change, diversity, and expressions of individual liberty – which is why we have a Constitution and its case law: to protect citizens from this sort of unwarranted fear and hostility, including those transgender.

Do you extend those same rights to those of us in the religious community?