Questions For Evolutionists.

[konradv]

Two simple questions for Religious Evolutionists:

1) How did the earliest organisms reproduce before they evolved sexual organs?

2) If the earliest organisms were able to reproduce without sexual organs, then why was there a need for them (sexual organs) to evolve in the first place?

The very first chapter of the Bible openly discusses the two sexes matter-of-factly. It not only discusses that two sexes existed from the beginning but discusses the purpose of sexual relations between a man (he) and a woman (she).

1) Fission

2) Sexual reproduction involves gene mixing, enhancing the survivability and diversity of offspring.

 

[Kruska]

If you randomly throw a bowling ball in any given direction, the vast majority of which are not even down the lane, what are the odds of bowling a perfect game?

Bowling is a game/process that instructs a player to aim a bowling ball towards the center of the pins.
This is what the Bowling religion taught you - since "believers", can only thrive, under orders/instructions given via a play book - in your case a Bible.

A flower plant turns and climbs towards light in order to thrive - not because God ordered/instructed it.
And a cells development isn't following an instruction or order from God - but thrives due to random evolutionary processes and impacts.

If the atmospheric values would have been different 2 million years ago - due to e.g. a meteor impact, or a further larger tectonic movement, humans (evolution) as we know wouldn't exist. And therefore no one would be talking about a God - but the earth and organic life would still exist.

 

[ActionJackson]

1) Fission

2) Sexual reproduction involves gene mixing, enhancing the survivability and diversity of offspring.

Have these theories been demonstrated in a lab setting, or are they more faith based?

 

[The Sage of Main Street]

The simplest of organisms grew by cell cloning. That advanced into some of those organisms implanting DNA into other organisms, which is considered the earliest form of "sex".
This advanced into organisms that are believed to have been more successful by DNA implanting than cloning... a monumental advancement in life. That then advanced into more organized organisms where some specialized in being implanted, and others to implant. We know those organisms existed. We just don't know how they got from cloning to implanting DNA, we just know it occurred.
And - interestingly enough - that is exactly what humans do. Males implant specialized organisms that carry DNA into the female, who has her own specialized organism - an egg - that has her own DNA in it - and whalaaah!! Biology!

All That Work Just to Get the Porn Industry Rich Off the Internet

 

[The Sage of Main Street]

.. health skin cells just simply divide and replace the dead and dying skin cells ...

Did you not know cells divide? ... and the new cells almost always have a complete set of DNA ...

2) Why sex evolved is a matter of debate . ...

Life-forms Liked Splatting Better Than Splitting

 

[iamwhatiseem]

....and DNA just happened by random happenstance??

Probably not.

 

[Foxfyre]

Two simple questions for Religious Evolutionists:

1) How did the earliest organisms reproduce before they evolved sexual organs?

2) If the earliest organisms were able to reproduce without sexual organs, then why was there a need for them (sexual organs) to evolve in the first place?

The very first chapter of the Bible openly discusses the two sexes matter-of-factly. It not only discusses that two sexes existed from the beginning but discusses the purpose of sexual relations between a man (he) and a woman (she).

Okay I'll give it a shot as I do believe in some fundamentals of evolution and believe it should be taught as science but also allow for discussion of different theories/possibilities. But technically, I suppose that makes me an evolutionist.

Remembering from biology class, a number of modern day sea creature reproduce asexually as do many fungi and plants, most microorganisms, ringworms, etc. I suppose the earliest organisms on Earth just divided as human cells divide now.

What makes cells do that? I don't know and I doubt anybody else does either. They have scientific names for the process but we don't get an explanation of what causes it to happen. It's one of many many questions evolution cannot answer. But we know that over millions of years simple organisms did develop into more and more complex ones, including opposing sexes necessary to reproduce, and that is the process of evolution.

As to the how or why, that's on my list of things to ask God when I can. I do feel strongly that Spinoza and Einstein were not in error when they surmised from observation, logic and reason that there could be some kind of all encompassing intelligence driving the process and saw it as improbable that it all happened just by happenstance.

Neither believed in God as I believe in God and I surmise you may believe in God. But whether the source of the intelligence is God or something akin to the Star Wars "The Force", I cannot find a good reason to dismiss that as a possibility.

As for Adam and Eve, I have taught Bible for a great many years. I allow the literalist to believe they were put on Earth in fully developed human form as we know it and I allow the evolutionists to believe humankind evolved into its present form as did all other living flora and fauna. Since we have no way to know how long a 'day' was in their time, there is no reason to think that either way God still could have ordered it to be.

The Bible is amazing literature but it leaves out a lot of detail, explanation, events and periods of time that could have helped us better understand. Science can fill in some of those gaps. The rest is on my list I want to take with me to Heaven.

 

[Dogmaphobe]

Bowling is a game/process that instructs a player to aim a bowling ball towards the center of the pins.
This is what the Bowling religion taught you - since "believers", can only thrive, under orders/instructions given via a play book - in your case a Bible.

A flower plant turns and climbs towards light in order to thrive - not because God ordered/instructed it.
And a cells development isn't following an instruction or order from God - but thrives due to random evolutionary processes and impacts.

If the atmospheric values would have been different 2 million years ago - due to e.g. a meteor impact, or a further larger tectonic movement, humans (evolution) as we know wouldn't exist. And therefore no one would be talking about a God - but the earth and organic life would still exist.

Actually, not quite the center. Hitting the one pin square on often results in a split. Instead, and if you are right-handed, hit just to the right of the head pin with enough carry on the ball (right to left spin) so it has the power to hit the five pin, and thus mixing the rest to carry both the seven and ten.

 

[Kruska]

What makes cells do that? I don't know and I doubt anybody else does either. They have scientific names for the process but we don't get an explanation of what causes it to happen.

Cells divide as the volume of a cell increases, while the surface area remains the same (therefore becomes smaller). Thus, the mass transfer within the cell is insufficiently possible, and the cell has to divide.

The Bible is amazing literature but it leaves out a lot of detail, explanation, events and periods of time that could have helped us better understand.

The Bible started to get written around 1100-900 BC, during the period of the King David Kingdom and reached most likely it's present known volume/content at around 500 B.C.
It is solely written and composed by a single monotheistic religious group of people that was founded around 1200B.C. And the entire effort was created to legalize the new Kingdom of David on the territory of Canaan. This group had previously taken (e.g. Jericho) at around 1150 B.C. - which in turn was retaken by the Egyptians since it used to belong to them at the time. Before 1200 B.C. no other culture incl. Egypt had ever mentioned Hebrew or Israel or Moses, etc.

It appears the first time in history (texts) and statues upon Egypt having retaken it's province - stating Israel and it's cities in Canaan have ceased to exist only their seed remains. Upon Egypt loosing it's control over Canaan to other civilizations around 1000 B.C. - the remaining seed, resurrected it's former city Kingdom in Canaan. This is were IMO this return to God's promised land comes in. (God promised our return to our land) to finally legalize a claim onto a new Kingdom-nation, that factually never existed before or a mere 50 years.

So in the period 1100 B.C. to 500B.C. all these questions - where do we come from, why is the sun hot? why does it become cool at night were answered/solved by a single group of a monotheistic religion - added with stories of other civilizations - e.g. the flood - making every known or suspected event a part of Jewish history and origin, right down to God being only their God - right down to Noah and Adam and Eve being Jewish. Or everything on this planet is due to their God - and naturally a Jewish God created everything. An entire history/religious Book written in the interest of a single group without providing a SINGLE PROOF - until today.

However today scientist and historians are aware that modern civilization (stone-houses/stone-walls/stone-carvings has one of it's earliest developments in today's northern Turkey) - 11,000 years before the Bible was written. BTW the first recorded and documented monotheistic religion was founded by an Egyptian dynasty around 100 years, before a group of people took that idea to be their own.

As such the Bible doesn't proof anything nor provides any proof, it only claims everything.

Amongst the 6 most favored theories as to how life got started (all involving Cells) - some scientists (probably religious scientists) behold the idea of cells having originated in clay. Therefore even providing a bridge toward the Bible's naive claim of God having had a clay-forming arts class, resulting in Adam.

Maybe a religious person can explain in more detail the composition of God's breath - that made those clay cells, aka Adam become alive.

If a religious person chooses to base his believe onto the Bible - then that is his personal choice. And it is the overall basic requisite in order to evade, or to simply refute scientific questions and research. Nothing less nothing more.

Since this thread isn't about scientific questions and processes - but simply to promote the Bible - I am out.

Thanks guys

 

[Kruska]

Actually, not quite the center. Hitting the one pin square on often results in a split. Instead, and if you are right-handed, hit just to the right of the head pin with enough carry on the ball (right to left spin) so it has the power to hit the five pin, and thus mixing the rest to carry both the seven and ten.

Okay let's discuss about bowling.

On the contrary mate - if one uses enough power and force (like me) a center hit gets those pins flying all over the place - thus avoiding a split.

In order to out-rule a split - professionals (not me) curve in the ball - to hit the front-pin a little bit sideways - thus avoiding a split, IF the curve ball or a direct shot hits that envisioned spot.

 

[konradv]

Have these theories been demonstrated in a lab setting, or are they more faith based?

Those aren’t theories; they’re facts. Fission still goes on in bacteria and the mixing of genes is the basis of DNA research.

 

[ActionJackson]

Those aren’t theories; they’re facts. Fission still goes on in bacteria and the mixing of genes is the basis of DNA research.

Is it a fact that fission gave way to sexual reproduction over billions of years? And if fission still occurs today, then why was there a need to evolve sexual organs? I'm just seeking the facts … not your personal theories.

 

[konradv]

Is it a fact that fission gave way to sexual reproduction over billions of years? And if fission still occurs today, then why was there a need to evolve sexual organs? I'm just seeking the facts … not your personal theories.

You seem to be assuming design.. The only “need” is survival.

 

[Kruska]

You seem to be assuming design.. The only “need” is survival.

Would be however interesting to see e.g. a human split in order to reproduce - thank God, evolution came in.

 

[konradv]

Would be however interesting to see e.g. a human split in order to reproduce - thank God, evolution came in.

They did explore the notion on The Big Bang Theory.

 

[Kruska]

They did explore the notion on The Big Bang Theory.

Must have been Dr. Sheldon Cooper?

 

[konradv]

Must have been Dr. Sheldon Cooper?

They figured the only way he’d reproduce was asexually.

 

[Kruska]

They figured the only way he’d reproduce was asexually.

Well he could try and climb onto a females back - and try to fertilize her eggs.

 

[ReinyDays]

Is it a fact that fission gave way to sexual reproduction over billions of years? And if fission still occurs today, then why was there a need to evolve sexual organs? I'm just seeking the facts … not your personal theories.

No ... both persist in nature ... both thrive ... the mistake you make is forgetting how over-dominate single-cell life is on Earth ... just a tiny few species contain two or more cells ... almost all of life that has ever existed are a single cell and just simply divides as a method of reproduction ...

Farmers have always saved the seed from their best plants for next year's crop ... is that part of Evolution okay to use? ... or do you offer a different system? ... Evolution is just a tool, do you blame hammer and chisels for Satanic Temples now? ... generally we blame the people who use these things for evil ... and praise those who use it for public benefit ...

 

[alang1216]

Is it a fact that fission gave way to sexual reproduction over billions of years?

Fission is still around, it didn't 'give way'.

And if fission still occurs today, then why was there a need to evolve sexual organs? I'm just seeking the facts … not your personal theories.

Fission works well for simple organisms where each is fully formed and fully functional. For more complex organisms there has to be a period of development to grow organs so simple fission wouldn't suffice. With so much invested in the offspring you want genetic diversity to give it its best shot.