Questions.....RE: The Greenhouse Effect

[Crick]

That magnetic waves are responsible for the heating of the corona does NOTHING to explain how photons from the dramatically cooler surface are (per YOUR understanding) moving towards the dramatically hotter corona.

 

[jc456]

A claim that rocks will fall on, say, limestone but will not fall on granite is a much closer analogy to your nonsensical claim regarding radiative heat transfer.

You aren't an engineer or anyone with any grasp of basic science whatsoever, so you're hardly the person to judge. And I'm no shrink, but I think your inability to see and amend the 'error of your ways' indicates some severe psychological issues that you really need to have treated.

No, that's incorrect, a rock doesn't go up does it? Why not?

 

[jc456]

Looking at the sun is bad for you...perhaps that explains why you are like you are..

I don't have to look at it to see your error.

I have given you the answer numerous times...the fact that you don't like it just goes to show that you are incapable of learning from your mistakes...here, yet another source explaining energy movement from the surface to the corona..

Why the sun's corona is hotter than its surface: laws of physics still stand

[clip]
“Our observations have permitted us to estimate the amount of energy transported by the magnetic waves, and these estimates reveal that the waves’ energy meets the energy requirement for the unexplained temperature increase in the corona."

[clip]
The MHD waves may not be solely responsible for heating the corona to dazzling temperatures. In 2011, a team comprised of researchers from Lockheed Martin’s Solar and Astrophysics Laboratory (LMSAL), NCAR and the University of Oslo claimed they discovered a potential source of hot gas that replenishes the corona: high energy jets of plasma that shoot from inside the photosphere (De Pontieu, B. et al. Science 331, 55-58 (2011)).

[clip]
In any case, it may be that there are more coronal heating mechanisms than the currently discovered MHD waves or plasma jets. Suffice to say, what was once an insurmountable mystery is now slowly unraveling its secrets.

The laws of physics always win toddster...energy doesn't spontaneously move from cool to warm no matter how much you wish it were true..

It doesn't matter why the corona is hotter, what matters is that according to your "theory" photons from the cooler surface CANNOT travel toward the hotter corona.

But they clearly do.

...energy doesn't spontaneously move from cool to warm

Except when the Sun is involved? DERP!

I'll help you out, you just fill in the blanks.

Photons can't move from cool to warm, but they do when they move from the Sun's surface to the corona
because ________________.
This is different than photons moving from the cooler atmosphere of the Earth to the warmer surface of the Earth because __________________________________.

I'll await your logical explanation.

I have no theory...the laws of physics state that energy won't move SPONTANEOUSLY...do you know what spontaneously means?..it is a key word here...energy doesn't move spontaneously from cool to warm...the mechanisms described above constitute work...if you apply work, you can certainly make energy move from cool to warm.....it just won't happen spontaneously. So once again, the reason is work...like it or not, that is the reason..

I have no theory...

"Photons can see the location and temperature of their targets and aren't emitted if they'll hit warmer matter, even if the targets are millions of light years away"

This isn't your theory?

...the laws of physics state that energy won't move SPONTANEOUSLY...do you know what spontaneously means?.

Does it mean that your original theory is wrong?

if you apply work, you can certainly make energy move from cool to warm...

Are you saying that the Sun does work and the Sun can emit photons that are allowed to hit warmer matter?
If that's the case, which photons are not originally caused by work?

I guess that means most photons in the Universe aren't restricted in any way?

That's a relief.

Where is the source of the suns energy? Core or corona?

 

[SSDD]

"Photons can see the location and temperature of their targets and aren't emitted if they'll hit warmer matter, even if the targets are millions of light years away"

This isn't your theory?

Of course not...that is just the best explanation that you wack jobs could come up with as a reason that energy doesn't move spontaneously from cool to warm...We know so little about the fundamental mechanism...scratch that..we know nothing about the fundamental mechanism of energy change...we don't know what makes it happen...so we have no idea what is going on there...but there is a reason that we never observe energy moving spontaneously from cool to warm...perhaps some day we will know...

Does it mean that your original theory is wrong?

First, I have no theory...and my position has always been that energy doesn't move spontaneously from cool to warm...it is your lack of reading skills that have left you thinking that my position is otherwise...

Are you saying that the Sun does work and the Sun can emit photons that are allowed to hit warmer matter?
If that's the case, which photons are not originally caused by work?

Are you claiming that MHD waves and plasma jets aren't work?

I guess that means most photons in the Universe aren't restricted in any way?

The key word in that sentence is guess....which is precisely where science is in its statements regarding energy exchange...it is all guessing...and I can't help but wonder why you wackos want to guess that something is happening that we can't, and never will observe over guessing that something is happening that supports every observation ever made.

 

[SSDD]

That magnetic waves are responsible for the heating of the corona does NOTHING to explain how photons from the dramatically cooler surface are (per YOUR understanding) moving towards the dramatically hotter corona.

What do you suppose those magnetic waves are moving to the corona?...and if photons exist, and have no charge, how do you suppose a magnetic wave manages to have any effect on them?

 

[Crick]

HA HA HA HA HA haaa.... you seem to believe the sun is made entirely of photons.

Don't you ever think?

 

[Wuwei]

We know so little about the fundamental mechanism...scratch that..we know nothing about the fundamental mechanism of energy change...we don't know what makes it happen...so we have no idea what is going on there...but there is a reason that we never observe energy moving spontaneously from cool to warm...perhaps some day we will know...

That is so funny.

Actually we know a tremendous amount about energy exchange. We do know what makes it happen. We have a fundamental idea.

Your "some day we will know" already happened 100 years ago.

What you are saying is that YOU know nothing about the fundamental mechanism of energy change...YOU don't know what makes it happen...so YOU have no idea what is going on there.. But again, WE do know the science and YOU don't.

.

 

[Olde Europe]

I think a large part of the problem is that the AGW folks refer to this part of the LWIR exchange as a "Forcing Function". Putting it into the same class as solar forcing or albedo changes.

Why would that be a problem? I mean, we've seen scientific illiterates not understanding (or professing not to understand) the concept of back radiation, or denying its existence altogether. That's too bad, but not really a problem. Moreover, putting it in the "same class" means it is part of the forcing that changes the earth's energy content; it doesn't suggest that SW and LW radiations are in all aspects the same. Changing cloud cover or deforestation are also part of the forcing, and the differences are even bigger. So, I genuinely don't see the problem. What is it, exactly?

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

"Photons can see the location and temperature of their targets and aren't emitted if they'll hit warmer matter, even if the targets are millions of light years away"

This isn't your theory?

Of course not...that is just the best explanation that you wack jobs could come up with as a reason that energy doesn't move spontaneously from cool to warm...We know so little about the fundamental mechanism...scratch that..we know nothing about the fundamental mechanism of energy change...we don't know what makes it happen...so we have no idea what is going on there...but there is a reason that we never observe energy moving spontaneously from cool to warm...perhaps some day we will know...

Does it mean that your original theory is wrong?

First, I have no theory...and my position has always been that energy doesn't move spontaneously from cool to warm...it is your lack of reading skills that have left you thinking that my position is otherwise...

Are you saying that the Sun does work and the Sun can emit photons that are allowed to hit warmer matter?
If that's the case, which photons are not originally caused by work?

Are you claiming that MHD waves and plasma jets aren't work?

I guess that means most photons in the Universe aren't restricted in any way?

The key word in that sentence is guess....which is precisely where science is in its statements regarding energy exchange...it is all guessing...and I can't help but wonder why you wackos want to guess that something is happening that we can't, and never will observe over guessing that something is happening that supports every observation ever made.

Of course not...that is just the best explanation that you wack jobs could come up with as a reason that energy doesn't move spontaneously from cool to warm

No, that was your explanation for the directions photons moved and why.

First, I have no theory

Your theory is that photons are prevented from moving from the cool atmosphere of Earth, to the warmer surface, because the 2nd Law, which doesn't mention photons, requires photons to know their course and the temperature of matter around them.

Are you claiming that MHD waves and plasma jets aren't work?

For at least the 4th time, the corona and the reason for its high temperature don't matter.
What matters is your claim that the cooler surface CANNOT emit toward warmer matter.

The key word in that sentence is guess

It's true, we have to guess about your theory, because you can't provide any source that agrees with your claims......how else can we flesh out your silly "theory" without guessing?

Try again?

Photons can't move from cool to warm, but they do when they move from the Sun's surface to the corona
because ________________.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

That magnetic waves cause coronal heat is nothing more that the latest wild-eyed guess to explain something observable, yet defies our understanding of physics. It's a plug idea, a space filler.

The photons must come from the corona and not the surface

 

[jc456]

"Photons can see the location and temperature of their targets and aren't emitted if they'll hit warmer matter, even if the targets are millions of light years away"

This isn't your theory?

Of course not...that is just the best explanation that you wack jobs could come up with as a reason that energy doesn't move spontaneously from cool to warm...We know so little about the fundamental mechanism...scratch that..we know nothing about the fundamental mechanism of energy change...we don't know what makes it happen...so we have no idea what is going on there...but there is a reason that we never observe energy moving spontaneously from cool to warm...perhaps some day we will know...

Does it mean that your original theory is wrong?

First, I have no theory...and my position has always been that energy doesn't move spontaneously from cool to warm...it is your lack of reading skills that have left you thinking that my position is otherwise...

Are you saying that the Sun does work and the Sun can emit photons that are allowed to hit warmer matter?
If that's the case, which photons are not originally caused by work?

Are you claiming that MHD waves and plasma jets aren't work?

I guess that means most photons in the Universe aren't restricted in any way?

The key word in that sentence is guess....which is precisely where science is in its statements regarding energy exchange...it is all guessing...and I can't help but wonder why you wackos want to guess that something is happening that we can't, and never will observe over guessing that something is happening that supports every observation ever made.

Of course not...that is just the best explanation that you wack jobs could come up with as a reason that energy doesn't move spontaneously from cool to warm

No, that was your explanation for the directions photons moved and why.

First, I have no theory

Your theory is that photons are prevented from moving from the cool atmosphere of Earth, to the warmer surface, because the 2nd Law, which doesn't mention photons, requires photons to know their course and the temperature of matter around them.

Are you claiming that MHD waves and plasma jets aren't work?

For at least the 4th time, the corona and the reason for its high temperature don't matter.
What matters is your claim that the cooler surface CANNOT emit toward warmer matter.

The key word in that sentence is guess

It's true, we have to guess about your theory, because you can't provide any source that agrees with your claims......how else can we flesh out your silly "theory" without guessing?

Try again?

Photons can't move from cool to warm, but they do when they move from the Sun's surface to the corona
because ________________.

again with misinformation on a response as I'm reading new posts. you do this frequently.

What matters is your claim that the cooler surface CANNOT emit toward warmer matter.

why don't you ever quote what was actually posted. SSDD's comment is this:
"First, I have no theory...and my position has always been that energy doesn't move spontaneously from cool to warm."

big word you missed in your misinformed response. 'spontaneous' Maybe it's you don't know what the definition of the word is. don't know, but you mostly miss using it when responding.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

That magnetic waves cause coronal heat is nothing more that the latest wild-eyed guess to explain something observable, yet defies our understanding of physics. It's a plug idea, a space filler.

The photons must come from the corona and not the surface

Photons come from both.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

"Photons can see the location and temperature of their targets and aren't emitted if they'll hit warmer matter, even if the targets are millions of light years away"

This isn't your theory?

Of course not...that is just the best explanation that you wack jobs could come up with as a reason that energy doesn't move spontaneously from cool to warm...We know so little about the fundamental mechanism...scratch that..we know nothing about the fundamental mechanism of energy change...we don't know what makes it happen...so we have no idea what is going on there...but there is a reason that we never observe energy moving spontaneously from cool to warm...perhaps some day we will know...

Does it mean that your original theory is wrong?

First, I have no theory...and my position has always been that energy doesn't move spontaneously from cool to warm...it is your lack of reading skills that have left you thinking that my position is otherwise...

Are you saying that the Sun does work and the Sun can emit photons that are allowed to hit warmer matter?
If that's the case, which photons are not originally caused by work?

Are you claiming that MHD waves and plasma jets aren't work?

I guess that means most photons in the Universe aren't restricted in any way?

The key word in that sentence is guess....which is precisely where science is in its statements regarding energy exchange...it is all guessing...and I can't help but wonder why you wackos want to guess that something is happening that we can't, and never will observe over guessing that something is happening that supports every observation ever made.

Of course not...that is just the best explanation that you wack jobs could come up with as a reason that energy doesn't move spontaneously from cool to warm

No, that was your explanation for the directions photons moved and why.

First, I have no theory

Your theory is that photons are prevented from moving from the cool atmosphere of Earth, to the warmer surface, because the 2nd Law, which doesn't mention photons, requires photons to know their course and the temperature of matter around them.

Are you claiming that MHD waves and plasma jets aren't work?

For at least the 4th time, the corona and the reason for its high temperature don't matter.
What matters is your claim that the cooler surface CANNOT emit toward warmer matter.

The key word in that sentence is guess

It's true, we have to guess about your theory, because you can't provide any source that agrees with your claims......how else can we flesh out your silly "theory" without guessing?

Try again?

Photons can't move from cool to warm, but they do when they move from the Sun's surface to the corona
because ________________.

again with misinformation on a response as I'm reading new posts. you do this frequently.

What matters is your claim that the cooler surface CANNOT emit toward warmer matter.

why don't you ever quote what was actually posted. SSDD's comment is this:
"First, I have no theory...and my position has always been that energy doesn't move spontaneously from cool to warm."

big word you missed in your misinformed response. 'spontaneous' Maybe it's you don't know what the definition of the word is. don't know, but you mostly miss using it when responding.

Explain further what allows these cool photons to move toward warmer matter.

Do photons know if they're spontaneously moving or not?

 

[SSDD]

We know so little about the fundamental mechanism...scratch that..we know nothing about the fundamental mechanism of energy change...we don't know what makes it happen...so we have no idea what is going on there...but there is a reason that we never observe energy moving spontaneously from cool to warm...perhaps some day we will know...

That is so funny.

Actually we know a tremendous amount about energy exchange. We do know what makes it happen. We have a fundamental idea.

Your "some day we will know" already happened 100 years ago.

What you are saying is that YOU know nothing about the fundamental mechanism of energy change...YOU don't know what makes it happen...so YOU have no idea what is going on there.. But again, WE do know the science and YOU don't.

.

What is funny is that you believe that being able to predict a temperature from an amount of energy received or sent equals understanding what causes the movement in the first place....what is funny is that you believe we have any idea of the basic mechanism that drives energy exchange....what is funny is that you believe models are reality....funny and sad...because it indicates that you are living in a dream world and have a real inability to separate reality from fiction..

 

[SSDD]

"Photons can see the location and temperature of their targets and aren't emitted if they'll hit warmer matter, even if the targets are millions of light years away"

This isn't your theory?

Of course not...that is just the best explanation that you wack jobs could come up with as a reason that energy doesn't move spontaneously from cool to warm...We know so little about the fundamental mechanism...scratch that..we know nothing about the fundamental mechanism of energy change...we don't know what makes it happen...so we have no idea what is going on there...but there is a reason that we never observe energy moving spontaneously from cool to warm...perhaps some day we will know...

Does it mean that your original theory is wrong?

First, I have no theory...and my position has always been that energy doesn't move spontaneously from cool to warm...it is your lack of reading skills that have left you thinking that my position is otherwise...

Are you saying that the Sun does work and the Sun can emit photons that are allowed to hit warmer matter?
If that's the case, which photons are not originally caused by work?

Are you claiming that MHD waves and plasma jets aren't work?

I guess that means most photons in the Universe aren't restricted in any way?

The key word in that sentence is guess....which is precisely where science is in its statements regarding energy exchange...it is all guessing...and I can't help but wonder why you wackos want to guess that something is happening that we can't, and never will observe over guessing that something is happening that supports every observation ever made.

Of course not...that is just the best explanation that you wack jobs could come up with as a reason that energy doesn't move spontaneously from cool to warm

No, that was your explanation for the directions photons moved and why.

First, I have no theory

Your theory is that photons are prevented from moving from the cool atmosphere of Earth, to the warmer surface, because the 2nd Law, which doesn't mention photons, requires photons to know their course and the temperature of matter around them.

Are you claiming that MHD waves and plasma jets aren't work?

For at least the 4th time, the corona and the reason for its high temperature don't matter.
What matters is your claim that the cooler surface CANNOT emit toward warmer matter.

The key word in that sentence is guess

It's true, we have to guess about your theory, because you can't provide any source that agrees with your claims......how else can we flesh out your silly "theory" without guessing?

Try again?

Photons can't move from cool to warm, but they do when they move from the Sun's surface to the corona
because ________________.

again with misinformation on a response as I'm reading new posts. you do this frequently.

What matters is your claim that the cooler surface CANNOT emit toward warmer matter.

why don't you ever quote what was actually posted. SSDD's comment is this:
"First, I have no theory...and my position has always been that energy doesn't move spontaneously from cool to warm."

big word you missed in your misinformed response. 'spontaneous' Maybe it's you don't know what the definition of the word is. don't know, but you mostly miss using it when responding.

He can only argue against his own straw men...he is a doofus who never rises above the level of a 5 year old in his conversation...

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

"Photons can see the location and temperature of their targets and aren't emitted if they'll hit warmer matter, even if the targets are millions of light years away"

This isn't your theory?

Of course not...that is just the best explanation that you wack jobs could come up with as a reason that energy doesn't move spontaneously from cool to warm...We know so little about the fundamental mechanism...scratch that..we know nothing about the fundamental mechanism of energy change...we don't know what makes it happen...so we have no idea what is going on there...but there is a reason that we never observe energy moving spontaneously from cool to warm...perhaps some day we will know...

Does it mean that your original theory is wrong?

First, I have no theory...and my position has always been that energy doesn't move spontaneously from cool to warm...it is your lack of reading skills that have left you thinking that my position is otherwise...

Are you saying that the Sun does work and the Sun can emit photons that are allowed to hit warmer matter?
If that's the case, which photons are not originally caused by work?

Are you claiming that MHD waves and plasma jets aren't work?

I guess that means most photons in the Universe aren't restricted in any way?

The key word in that sentence is guess....which is precisely where science is in its statements regarding energy exchange...it is all guessing...and I can't help but wonder why you wackos want to guess that something is happening that we can't, and never will observe over guessing that something is happening that supports every observation ever made.

Of course not...that is just the best explanation that you wack jobs could come up with as a reason that energy doesn't move spontaneously from cool to warm

No, that was your explanation for the directions photons moved and why.

First, I have no theory

Your theory is that photons are prevented from moving from the cool atmosphere of Earth, to the warmer surface, because the 2nd Law, which doesn't mention photons, requires photons to know their course and the temperature of matter around them.

Are you claiming that MHD waves and plasma jets aren't work?

For at least the 4th time, the corona and the reason for its high temperature don't matter.
What matters is your claim that the cooler surface CANNOT emit toward warmer matter.

The key word in that sentence is guess

It's true, we have to guess about your theory, because you can't provide any source that agrees with your claims......how else can we flesh out your silly "theory" without guessing?

Try again?

Photons can't move from cool to warm, but they do when they move from the Sun's surface to the corona
because ________________.

again with misinformation on a response as I'm reading new posts. you do this frequently.

What matters is your claim that the cooler surface CANNOT emit toward warmer matter.

why don't you ever quote what was actually posted. SSDD's comment is this:
"First, I have no theory...and my position has always been that energy doesn't move spontaneously from cool to warm."

big word you missed in your misinformed response. 'spontaneous' Maybe it's you don't know what the definition of the word is. don't know, but you mostly miss using it when responding.

He can only argue against his own straw men...he is a doofus who never rises above the level of a 5 year old in his conversation...

Photons only moving to cooler matter is your construction, not mine.

 

[Wuwei]

.because it indicates that you are living in a dream world and have a real inability to separate reality from fiction..

Oh, the troll want's more feeding. You are doing the old troll trick of blaming someone for something you are guilty of.

 

[flacaltenn]

I think a large part of the problem is that the AGW folks refer to this part of the LWIR exchange as a "Forcing Function". Putting it into the same class as solar forcing or albedo changes.

Why would that be a problem? I mean, we've seen scientific illiterates not understanding (or professing not to understand) the concept of back radiation, or denying its existence altogether. That's too bad, but not really a problem. Moreover, putting it in the "same class" means it is part of the forcing that changes the earth's energy content; it doesn't suggest that SW and LW radiations are in all aspects the same. Changing cloud cover or deforestation are also part of the forcing, and the differences are even bigger. So, I genuinely don't see the problem. What is it, exactly?

It's a problem if the folks DOING the systems modeling actually LOOK at all those things as "forcings".. In a complex system with feedbacks and storage and delays, that measure "energy balance" resulting in a surface temp change, the only primary energy ENTERING the system (in this case) is the solar forcing and some trivial contributions such as plate tectonics, atmospheric friction, and planetary "wobble". Then you have adjustments to "transfer functions" that change dynamically which affect HOW that primary energy gets, distributed, stored or delayed.

The best "handle" on transfer functions are the "solar constant" (which is NOT constant when searching for such small results) and the effect of the GHGases. Both of these are pretty well (but not completely) specified by basic chemistry and physics and observation. The OTHER things you mentioned are less well "modeled". Because of serious lack of knowledge about the feedbacks, delays, and storage.

For instance, the GHGases dont ADD any energy to the overall system other than what they put into storage. They IMPEDE the NET LOSS of energy to space. And if you look back at the "famous" Trenberth "energy" diagram where he took all of this on the back on an envelope (uncertainties and all) and MIRACULOUSLY discovered the EXACT amount of trivial energy to account for all the warming by the path thru the GHGases , he left out one of the most IMPORTANT aspects of this transfer function. And that was "ocean storage" of the "excess heat" created by additional "atmospheric insulation". About 20 years LATER --- he co-authors a paper about "How the Oceans Ate My Global Warming" by making the claim that a full 90% of the EXCESS HEAT created by the heat retardardation to space ended up as storage in the DEEP oceans. Yet at the time he pulled off that miraculous envelope exercise -- he completely left that component OUT of his "balance".. He simply considered the "back radiation" of the GHGases as a simple "forcing" without accounting for complexity of that particular transfer function that ACTS on changes in that one variable.

In addition, because the GHG effect doesn't ADD any primary energy into the system -- you need to account for the ATMOSPHERIC storage of that energy as well as the ocean and any land storage. Because OBVIOUSLY if the effect of higher GHGases is to RETAIN ENERGY at the surface -- it must be "stored" somewhere right? Do you know the what the "storage capacity" is of an additional 120ppm of CO2 in the atmosphere is? What is the retention time of that storage. Etc, Etc.. Bottom line is --- it's not a forcing in the traditional "systems theory" terminology -- is it?

It's a technical observation. Not ready for public education. But it shows how juvenile and sloppy it was to allow the public to THINK for nearly 20 years --- that CO2/CH4 emissions was the MASTER TUNING KNOB for this complex system.. It isn't..

Since you said you have an engineering background -- I didn't hold back. Hope you understand my skepticism about some of the whackier "pronouncements" that have come from the AGW circus..

 

[jc456]

"Photons can see the location and temperature of their targets and aren't emitted if they'll hit warmer matter, even if the targets are millions of light years away"

This isn't your theory?

Of course not...that is just the best explanation that you wack jobs could come up with as a reason that energy doesn't move spontaneously from cool to warm...We know so little about the fundamental mechanism...scratch that..we know nothing about the fundamental mechanism of energy change...we don't know what makes it happen...so we have no idea what is going on there...but there is a reason that we never observe energy moving spontaneously from cool to warm...perhaps some day we will know...

Does it mean that your original theory is wrong?

First, I have no theory...and my position has always been that energy doesn't move spontaneously from cool to warm...it is your lack of reading skills that have left you thinking that my position is otherwise...

Are you saying that the Sun does work and the Sun can emit photons that are allowed to hit warmer matter?
If that's the case, which photons are not originally caused by work?

Are you claiming that MHD waves and plasma jets aren't work?

I guess that means most photons in the Universe aren't restricted in any way?

The key word in that sentence is guess....which is precisely where science is in its statements regarding energy exchange...it is all guessing...and I can't help but wonder why you wackos want to guess that something is happening that we can't, and never will observe over guessing that something is happening that supports every observation ever made.

Of course not...that is just the best explanation that you wack jobs could come up with as a reason that energy doesn't move spontaneously from cool to warm

No, that was your explanation for the directions photons moved and why.

First, I have no theory

Your theory is that photons are prevented from moving from the cool atmosphere of Earth, to the warmer surface, because the 2nd Law, which doesn't mention photons, requires photons to know their course and the temperature of matter around them.

Are you claiming that MHD waves and plasma jets aren't work?

For at least the 4th time, the corona and the reason for its high temperature don't matter.
What matters is your claim that the cooler surface CANNOT emit toward warmer matter.

The key word in that sentence is guess

It's true, we have to guess about your theory, because you can't provide any source that agrees with your claims......how else can we flesh out your silly "theory" without guessing?

Try again?

Photons can't move from cool to warm, but they do when they move from the Sun's surface to the corona
because ________________.

again with misinformation on a response as I'm reading new posts. you do this frequently.

What matters is your claim that the cooler surface CANNOT emit toward warmer matter.

why don't you ever quote what was actually posted. SSDD's comment is this:
"First, I have no theory...and my position has always been that energy doesn't move spontaneously from cool to warm."

big word you missed in your misinformed response. 'spontaneous' Maybe it's you don't know what the definition of the word is. don't know, but you mostly miss using it when responding.

Explain further what allows these cool photons to move toward warmer matter.

Do photons know if they're spontaneously moving or not?

why exactly? it seems SSDD had given you the information you requested awhile back.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

"Photons can see the location and temperature of their targets and aren't emitted if they'll hit warmer matter, even if the targets are millions of light years away"

This isn't your theory?

Of course not...that is just the best explanation that you wack jobs could come up with as a reason that energy doesn't move spontaneously from cool to warm...We know so little about the fundamental mechanism...scratch that..we know nothing about the fundamental mechanism of energy change...we don't know what makes it happen...so we have no idea what is going on there...but there is a reason that we never observe energy moving spontaneously from cool to warm...perhaps some day we will know...

Does it mean that your original theory is wrong?

First, I have no theory...and my position has always been that energy doesn't move spontaneously from cool to warm...it is your lack of reading skills that have left you thinking that my position is otherwise...

Are you saying that the Sun does work and the Sun can emit photons that are allowed to hit warmer matter?
If that's the case, which photons are not originally caused by work?

Are you claiming that MHD waves and plasma jets aren't work?

I guess that means most photons in the Universe aren't restricted in any way?

The key word in that sentence is guess....which is precisely where science is in its statements regarding energy exchange...it is all guessing...and I can't help but wonder why you wackos want to guess that something is happening that we can't, and never will observe over guessing that something is happening that supports every observation ever made.

Of course not...that is just the best explanation that you wack jobs could come up with as a reason that energy doesn't move spontaneously from cool to warm

No, that was your explanation for the directions photons moved and why.

First, I have no theory

Your theory is that photons are prevented from moving from the cool atmosphere of Earth, to the warmer surface, because the 2nd Law, which doesn't mention photons, requires photons to know their course and the temperature of matter around them.

Are you claiming that MHD waves and plasma jets aren't work?

For at least the 4th time, the corona and the reason for its high temperature don't matter.
What matters is your claim that the cooler surface CANNOT emit toward warmer matter.

The key word in that sentence is guess

It's true, we have to guess about your theory, because you can't provide any source that agrees with your claims......how else can we flesh out your silly "theory" without guessing?

Try again?

Photons can't move from cool to warm, but they do when they move from the Sun's surface to the corona
because ________________.

again with misinformation on a response as I'm reading new posts. you do this frequently.

What matters is your claim that the cooler surface CANNOT emit toward warmer matter.

why don't you ever quote what was actually posted. SSDD's comment is this:
"First, I have no theory...and my position has always been that energy doesn't move spontaneously from cool to warm."

big word you missed in your misinformed response. 'spontaneous' Maybe it's you don't know what the definition of the word is. don't know, but you mostly miss using it when responding.

Explain further what allows these cool photons to move toward warmer matter.

Do photons know if they're spontaneously moving or not?

why exactly? it seems SSDD had given you the information you requested awhile back.

Yes, I've already poked holes in his "theory". Thanks!