Re-Evaluating Newt..

[JoeB131]

SAT, because I am really tired of wasting time on you....

Clarke didn't say anything until he didn't get the job he wanted, and his story had huge inconsistencies. So, yeah, on the basis of that, I reject his whining as sour grapes. Just because people didn't give him the attention he deserved, doesn't really mean anything than he was just the useless guy that they were just waiting to fire. Every workplace has those, and they will all tell you they were the most awesome employee ever.

Second point- If you think Obama can get re-elected with a 9% unemployment rate, you are delusional.

Positions don't matter. What' going to matter to them is they have less money in 2012 than they had in 2008.

It ALWAYS comes down to the Reagan question- Are you better off now than you were four years ago?

And with Obama, the answer is a resounding "No".

 

[JoeB131]

To Synth- Since you keep want to stroking yourself over Obama's "Let's hand the place over to the Islamists" policies, maybe you'd like to take a gander at this...

For Young Women, A Horrifying Consequence Of Mubarak

The campaign to end Female Genital Mutilation in Egypt was fighting an uphill battle before the revolution. Although FGM was outlawed in 2007 after a 12-year-old girl died from the procedure, the practice is still widespread. Despite efforts to reduce it, the number of girls aged 15 to 17 who underwent FGM only dropped from 77 percent in 2005 to 74 percent in 2008, according to the 2008 Egypt Demographic and Health Survey (EDHS).

Since the revolution, international support for this fight has significantly waned. Political instability has led to a 75 percent cut in Egypt’s FGM-related donor funds to the United Nations since January, according to Marta Agosti, the head of the anti-FGM program for the U.N.Changeover among government ministers has also slowed official work. The National Council for Childhood and Motherhood, the government body charged with addressing the problem, was shuttered after the revolution, and there is concern among activists that the capacity of the Council will shrink in its new home under the Ministry of Health. Instability and a lack of funds have curtailed the day-to-day work of NGOs; less field work and fewer workshops are taking place, according to Agosti.

Yup, another strike for freedom under Obama...

 

[Synthaholic]

It is not an impeachable offense.

The rest of it I don't disagree, except that Bush knew that Saddam had nothing to do with 9/11, yet exploited that 70%. So that's where the primary and almost exclusive blame belongs. He is CiC. No one else could have started that war, so any blame you want to ascribe to Democrats is peripheral at best.

So essentially, you are saying that he involved us in a war on false pretenses and lied to the American people and Congress and that wasn't an impeachable offense... Come on, guy, you are trying to have it both ways. If what you say is true, it's a lot worse than what Nixon did. Or Clinton.

Or everyone- and I mean - everyone, got it wrong. The whole world thought Saddam had WMD's and links to Al Qaeda. Clinton mentioned Iraq FOUR TIMES in his 1998 indictment of Bin Laden.

In a perfect world, he would have been impeached. But politicians look out for themselves first, and the people way down the list.

So, Britain and France were not allies to help when they were actually invaded by another country, but Israel is an ally that we must help because Saddam had some sort of shadowy money connection to terrorist groups in Palestine and Lebanon, sending money to the families of suicide bombers to boost his PR?

Again, my point, stupid. Show me where we had a treaty with France or England in 1938 that said we had to come to their aid. We have treaties with Israel. [/quote]

We may have had treaties with Britain and France. I don't know. But they were certainly our two biggest allies at the time. And they were under attack.

Iraq never attacked Israel. He launched some scuds 12 years previously, which you are about to discount as old news, in your next paragraph:

He did attack Israel. And Saudi Arabia. And Kuwait. All of which were allies. [/quote]

Yeah, in 1990. And we dealt with it then.

Correct. A massive military response to some guys in caves was sure to fail, just as they wanted.

You can't have a huge War On Terror that enriches your corporate friends if you catch the bad guy within a few weeks, now can you?

Right. And Clinton didn't do that, um... why again? [/quote]

Because he didn't come into government having just been CEO of Halliburton?

Side note....if you are too lazy to fix quotes, you probably shouldn't run with the big dogs...

You're a yapping Yorky.

Why should any of us fix your fuckups? Obviously, it's beyond your inteeligence level to grasp simple functions such as quote functions.

 

[Synthaholic]

Just like Anita Dunghill kept her mouth shut as long as she needed letters of recommendation...

The poverty of rightwing morality.

Since she didn't want to put her career in jeopardy at a time when Thomas was just heading up some minority government agency, it excuses all of his bad behaviour.

 

[Synthaholic]

To Synth- Since you keep want to stroking yourself over Obama's "Let's hand the place over to the Islamists" policies, maybe you'd like to take a gander at this...

For Young Women, A Horrifying Consequence Of Mubarak

The campaign to end Female Genital Mutilation in Egypt was fighting an uphill battle before the revolution. Although FGM was outlawed in 2007 after a 12-year-old girl died from the procedure, the practice is still widespread. Despite efforts to reduce it, the number of girls aged 15 to 17 who underwent FGM only dropped from 77 percent in 2005 to 74 percent in 2008, according to the 2008 Egypt Demographic and Health Survey (EDHS).

Since the revolution, international support for this fight has significantly waned. Political instability has led to a 75 percent cut in Egypt’s FGM-related donor funds to the United Nations since January, according to Marta Agosti, the head of the anti-FGM program for the U.N.Changeover among government ministers has also slowed official work. The National Council for Childhood and Motherhood, the government body charged with addressing the problem, was shuttered after the revolution, and there is concern among activists that the capacity of the Council will shrink in its new home under the Ministry of Health. Instability and a lack of funds have curtailed the day-to-day work of NGOs; less field work and fewer workshops are taking place, according to Agosti.

Yup, another strike for freedom under Obama...

Your premise that he has handed it over to Islamists is wrong.

Your premise that he has handed it over to anyone is wrong.

He helped the Libyan people overthrow a ruthless dictator, and averted a massacre.

I know that burns wingnut butts. Sorry.

 

[Sallow]

SAT, because I am really tired of wasting time on you....

Clarke didn't say anything until he didn't get the job he wanted, and his story had huge inconsistencies. So, yeah, on the basis of that, I reject his whining as sour grapes. Just because people didn't give him the attention he deserved, doesn't really mean anything than he was just the useless guy that they were just waiting to fire. Every workplace has those, and they will all tell you they were the most awesome employee ever.

Second point- If you think Obama can get re-elected with a 9% unemployment rate, you are delusional.

Positions don't matter. What' going to matter to them is they have less money in 2012 than they had in 2008.

It ALWAYS comes down to the Reagan question- Are you better off now than you were four years ago?

And with Obama, the answer is a resounding "No".

First off, you can reject Clarke as inconsistent or a sour grapes guy but that simply isn't the case. These guys seriously don't like the light of day until they see some national security problems.

Second off, I do think Obama will be re-elected. While unemployment is high, people do and will realize that had nothing to do with Obama and that private sector hiring has been in the plus for quite some time. The problem now is that the public sector is engaged in shedding so many employees that UE still remains high. The Republicans have been extremely sloppy in their attempt to make Obama a one term president. First off, that's what they said their number one priority is. And secondly their actions in congress seem vindictive, pectulent and cruel to the American people. Couple that with the state by state assault on Union rights..and you have the perfect mix for a populist wave. Add in Republicans have been demonizing the elderly, hispanics, blacks, liberals, democrats, moderates, independents, asians, muslims, the unemployed, union workers, civil servants and just about everyone else not white, wealthy and evangelist. That's going to be a huge problem.

 

[Dot Com]

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

So essentially, you are saying that he involved us in a war on false pretenses and lied to the American people and Congress and that wasn't an impeachable offense... Come on, guy, you are trying to have it both ways. If what you say is true, it's a lot worse than what Nixon did. Or Clinton.

In a perfect world, he would have been impeached. But politicians look out for themselves first, and the people way down the list.

True to the extent that GWB benefited from a Republican Congress at the time. Johnson and Clinton were impeached by Republican Congresses, Nixon almost by a Democratic Congress.

Telling also the topic has gotten way off ‘Re-Evaluating Newt,’ which should answer the OP’s question (whatever it was) and relegate Newt to utter irrelevancy for 2012.

 

[JoeB131]

In a perfect world, he would have been impeached. But politicians look out for themselves first, and the people way down the list.

Hey, Corky, they couldn't impeach him because they were screaming just as loudly for Saddam's blood as he was.

We may have had treaties with Britain and France. I don't know. But they were certainly our two biggest allies at the time. And they were under attack.

An alliance would imply we had a treaty. We had no treaties to aid them. They weren't our allies and in some ways were our rivals. The fact was, Americans didn't want another European War, for good reason, the previous one was a complete waste.

Because he didn't come into government having just been CEO of Halliburton?

Hey, why don't you bring up the Carlyle group, and then you can put on your tin-foil hat and sing the "It's all a conspiracy" theme song... while you boy Obama keeps fighting Bush's war.

Why should any of us fix your fuckups? Obviously, it's beyond your inteeligence level to grasp simple functions such as quote functions.

Actually, nobody's having a problem with it but you, Corky.

 

[JoeB131]

Your premise that he has handed it over to Islamists is wrong.

Your premise that he has handed it over to anyone is wrong.

He helped the Libyan people overthrow a ruthless dictator, and averted a massacre.

I know that burns wingnut butts. Sorry.

Only in your bizarre world is a dead Islamist a bad thing.

So what. Islamists get massacred. So what? Seriously. Who cares?

 

[Synthaholic]

In a perfect world, he would have been impeached. But politicians look out for themselves first, and the people way down the list.

Hey, Corky, they couldn't impeach him because they were screaming just as loudly for Saddam's blood as he was.

We may have had treaties with Britain and France. I don't know. But they were certainly our two biggest allies at the time. And they were under attack.

An alliance would imply we had a treaty. We had no treaties to aid them. They weren't our allies and in some ways were our rivals. The fact was, Americans didn't want another European War, for good reason, the previous one was a complete waste.

Because he didn't come into government having just been CEO of Halliburton?

Hey, why don't you bring up the Carlyle group, and then you can put on your tin-foil hat and sing the "It's all a conspiracy" theme song... while you boy Obama keeps fighting Bush's war.

Why should any of us fix your fuckups? Obviously, it's beyond your inteeligence level to grasp simple functions such as quote functions.

Actually, nobody's having a problem with it but you, Corky.

I can see that you are just another wingnut, with no knowledge to back up your bullshit.

But you have a lot of company here.

 

[JoeB131]

Just like Anita Dunghill kept her mouth shut as long as she needed letters of recommendation...

The poverty of rightwing morality.

Since she didn't want to put her career in jeopardy at a time when Thomas was just heading up some minority government agency, it excuses all of his bad behaviour.

Yup. That makes her a brownnoser of the worst order.

No one repsects a brownnoser.

Also, He transfered from one agency (Department of Education) to another. (EEOC). She packed up her desk and followed him. Not the action of a person being harrassed. And years after leaving government, she kept hitting him up for letters of recommendation....

Sorry, no credibility, just a bitter ex-employee jealous of her betters.

 

[Synthaholic]

Just like Anita Dunghill kept her mouth shut as long as she needed letters of recommendation...

The poverty of rightwing morality.

Since she didn't want to put her career in jeopardy at a time when Thomas was just heading up some minority government agency, it excuses all of his bad behaviour.

Yup. That makes her a brownnoser of the worst order.

No one repsects a brownnoser.

Also, He transfered from one agency (Department of Education) to another. (EEOC). She packed up her desk and followed him. Not the action of a person being harrassed. And years after leaving government, she kept hitting him up for letters of recommendation....

Sorry, no credibility, just a bitter ex-employee jealous of her betters.

Again, you confuse what you call brown-nosing with whether what she said about Thomas was true.


Lillian McEwen breaks her 19-year silence about Justice Clarence Thomas

 

[JoeB131]

First off, you can reject Clarke as inconsistent or a sour grapes guy but that simply isn't the case. These guys seriously don't like the light of day until they see some national security problems.

Second off, I do think Obama will be re-elected. While unemployment is high, people do and will realize that had nothing to do with Obama and that private sector hiring has been in the plus for quite some time. The problem now is that the public sector is engaged in shedding so many employees that UE still remains high. The Republicans have been extremely sloppy in their attempt to make Obama a one term president. First off, that's what they said their number one priority is. And secondly their actions in congress seem vindictive, pectulent and cruel to the American people. Couple that with the state by state assault on Union rights..and you have the perfect mix for a populist wave. Add in Republicans have been demonizing the elderly, hispanics, blacks, liberals, democrats, moderates, independents, asians, muslims, the unemployed, union workers, civil servants and just about everyone else not white, wealthy and evangelist. That's going to be a huge problem.

All sorts of flaws in that argument. I've already nailed down the stuff about Sour Grapes Clark, but to wit.

Union jobs are like Rent Controlled apartments. Great if you luck into one, but the people who don't have them don't care.

Second, as flawed as the GOP candidates are, they are all running even with Obama right now.

Third- One more year of this shit, and he's done. Either the economy improves, or they won't care about his excuse making or who he blames for his lack of progress. They vote in someone who has a proven record of getting things done. And Cain, Romney and Perry all fit that bill.

 

[JoeB131]

The poverty of rightwing morality.

Since she didn't want to put her career in jeopardy at a time when Thomas was just heading up some minority government agency, it excuses all of his bad behaviour.

Yup. That makes her a brownnoser of the worst order.

No one repsects a brownnoser.

Also, He transfered from one agency (Department of Education) to another. (EEOC). She packed up her desk and followed him. Not the action of a person being harrassed. And years after leaving government, she kept hitting him up for letters of recommendation....

Sorry, no credibility, just a bitter ex-employee jealous of her betters.

Again, you confuse what you call brown-nosing with whether what she said about Thomas was true.

B]

No, dumb-ass. It's really a simple matter.

Clarance Thomas is the worst boss ever. Made her HATE going to work every day. Then one day, he gets the office together and announces he going somewhere else.

Do you...

a) Do a little happy dance in your office that you have this guy out of your life

or

b) Immediately start sucking up to him to get a transfer along with him?

If your answer was b), any claims you had that he "harrassed" you go out the window.

For this other woman, she was his ex-girlfriend who is shopping a book, and said he gossiped at home about his co-workers....

Wow. Really?

I think that's what about 99% of people are guilty of.

 

[Sallow]

First off, you can reject Clarke as inconsistent or a sour grapes guy but that simply isn't the case. These guys seriously don't like the light of day until they see some national security problems.

Second off, I do think Obama will be re-elected. While unemployment is high, people do and will realize that had nothing to do with Obama and that private sector hiring has been in the plus for quite some time. The problem now is that the public sector is engaged in shedding so many employees that UE still remains high. The Republicans have been extremely sloppy in their attempt to make Obama a one term president. First off, that's what they said their number one priority is. And secondly their actions in congress seem vindictive, pectulent and cruel to the American people. Couple that with the state by state assault on Union rights..and you have the perfect mix for a populist wave. Add in Republicans have been demonizing the elderly, hispanics, blacks, liberals, democrats, moderates, independents, asians, muslims, the unemployed, union workers, civil servants and just about everyone else not white, wealthy and evangelist. That's going to be a huge problem.

All sorts of flaws in that argument. I've already nailed down the stuff about Sour Grapes Clark, but to wit.

Union jobs are like Rent Controlled apartments. Great if you luck into one, but the people who don't have them don't care.

Second, as flawed as the GOP candidates are, they are all running even with Obama right now.

Third- One more year of this shit, and he's done. Either the economy improves, or they won't care about his excuse making or who he blames for his lack of progress. They vote in someone who has a proven record of getting things done. And Cain, Romney and Perry all fit that bill.

Well you haven't..but cheers. Second, Unions have been under assault for the last 30 years. Membership is way down because of this. Third..they aren't "running even" they are running behind. Albeit closely. And you'd think if there was such discontent, everyone would be looking to boot him. They ain't. It's only the Republicans that want him out, Democrats are firmly behind Obama. Cain and Perry are lunatics, Romney is pretty weak.

None are going to be President.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

Cain and Perry are lunatics, Romney is pretty weak.

Cain is a lunatic, Perry a vacuous cipher.

Romney is Obama – most will just vote for the real thing.

None are going to be President.

Correct.

 

[Foxfyre]

Yup. That makes her a brownnoser of the worst order.

No one repsects a brownnoser.

Also, He transfered from one agency (Department of Education) to another. (EEOC). She packed up her desk and followed him. Not the action of a person being harrassed. And years after leaving government, she kept hitting him up for letters of recommendation....

Sorry, no credibility, just a bitter ex-employee jealous of her betters.

Again, you confuse what you call brown-nosing with whether what she said about Thomas was true.

B]

No, dumb-ass. It's really a simple matter.

Clarance Thomas is the worst boss ever. Made her HATE going to work every day. Then one day, he gets the office together and announces he going somewhere else.

Do you...

a) Do a little happy dance in your office that you have this guy out of your life

or

b) Immediately start sucking up to him to get a transfer along with him?

If your answer was b), any claims you had that he "harrassed" you go out the window.

For this other woman, she was his ex-girlfriend who is shopping a book, and said he gossiped at home about his co-workers....

Wow. Really?

I think that's what about 99% of people are guilty of.

Since Anita couldn't get ANY of her fellow co-workers to back her up in her accusations of Thomas, and, as you have already pointed out, her accusations were entirely contradictory with all of her behavior relating to him up to that point, I have always believed somebody bribed or paid her to accuse and testify against him. I wish that had been pursued. It wouldn't have made much difference re Justice Thomas though as then, as now, a black man is not allowed to stray off the liberal plantation, and if he presumes to do so, he will be destroyed if they can find any way to do that.

Which brings us back to the politics of personal destruction that were beginning to really get wound up during the Reagan administration. The liberals so hated Reagan that they were merciless in their accusations and criticisms of him and that extended on into the Bush 41 administration. A C-span junkie in those days, during the Clinton administration, night after night I tuned in to Henry Gonzales and others in special orders in the House making accusation after accusation of both Reagan and Bush. On the Republican side was Congressman Bob whattsit (Orange County CA--I'll think of the last name in a minute) who was constantly pummeling the Clintons on Whitewater, Hillary's $100k investment bonanza, Troopergate, and other scandals of that era.

I thought all of that was pretty unbecoming and unnecessary, and I disagreed with Newt when he pushed the impeachment proceedings. I'm guessing that if he had all that to do over again he wouldn't do it, but then again I agree with the courts and the Arkansas bar who did hold Clinton accountable for obstruction of justice, perjury, and contempt of court.

History is a marvelous instructor when one can set aside partisan blinders and see it for what it is.

Newt would make a good president. I doubt he'll get the nod as the nominee, but if he should, I won't have to hold my nose to vote for him most especially when the alternative is re-electing Obama. But I also think he is a big government guy who won't make the Tea Party and other reformers really happy either.

 

[JoeB131]

Well you haven't..but cheers. Second, Unions have been under assault for the last 30 years. Membership is way down because of this. Third..they aren't "running even" they are running behind. Albeit closely. And you'd think if there was such discontent, everyone would be looking to boot him. They ain't. It's only the Republicans that want him out, Democrats are firmly behind Obama. Cain and Perry are lunatics, Romney is pretty weak.

None are going to be President.

Unions have been under assault because average workers have no use for them. Unions keep the incompetant teacher in front of their kid and their taxes high to pay exhorbitant pensions....

Do you really want to compare where Bush 41 was in 1991 to where Obama is now?

Here's the real thing you guys need to be worried abuot. Obama doesn't top 50% in many polls, even if his opponent is someone like Ron Paul.

The thing is, it ain't the partisans that matter at this point. it's that 10% in the middle who aren't paying attention. And if the economy's still in the shitter, which it will be, they aren't going to be in a forgiving mood.

 

[Sallow]

Well you haven't..but cheers. Second, Unions have been under assault for the last 30 years. Membership is way down because of this. Third..they aren't "running even" they are running behind. Albeit closely. And you'd think if there was such discontent, everyone would be looking to boot him. They ain't. It's only the Republicans that want him out, Democrats are firmly behind Obama. Cain and Perry are lunatics, Romney is pretty weak.

None are going to be President.

Unions have been under assault because average workers have no use for them. Unions keep the incompetant teacher in front of their kid and their taxes high to pay exhorbitant pensions....

Do you really want to compare where Bush 41 was in 1991 to where Obama is now?

Here's the real thing you guys need to be worried abuot. Obama doesn't top 50% in many polls, even if his opponent is someone like Ron Paul.

The thing is, it ain't the partisans that matter at this point. it's that 10% in the middle who aren't paying attention. And if the economy's still in the shitter, which it will be, they aren't going to be in a forgiving mood.

Which polls? Lots of different polls saying lots of different things. There's no Republican candidate at the moment. So in order for that to really gel..someone has got to come out. But here's the thing you guys should be looking at. Romney's been campaigning for a good couple of years now. He's got 25% of Republicans liking him. Running against Obama he's garnered anywhere from 41% to 47% of the general electorate. That's hardly encouraging. And I think that will go down the more that's learned about the guy.

And "the economy" is not in the shitter. It's doing better then it was at the beginning of Obama's term. Corporations are making record profits. UE is lagging..and lagging because most states are firing civil servants.

But hey, I sincerly hope that any campaign manager approaches the election in this manner. That they say "Obama failed" over and over again. Sure fire winner.