Reagan & Conservatives -- Revisonist History 101

[Meathead]

Why is Eastern Europe our problem?

Frankly, I could care less what happens to the EuroTrash, I'd just like to get back the middle class in this country Reagan gutted.

Ahh Joe, it sucks for you that Reagan demolished the Soviet empire and freed Eastern Europe from the dehumanizing oppression you want to bring here.

Sucks to be you. It really does.

PLEASE, Please make up your mind? Is communism a failed ideology or did Ronnie cause it to crash?

They are certainly not mutually exclusive. It is a failed ideology, but Reagan shaved a couple of decades from the inevitable.

 

[Dad2three]

Well, see Reagan tax cuts only gutted revenues because they would have gone up anyway and the tax cuts, (follow this logic) kept revenue away from government (see, the Reagan haters have to take the position that the money all belongs to the government anyway) so actually the tax cuts that boosted the US economy and lead to a nearly doubling of government receipts actually hurt the economy (Try standing on your head it might make sense)

Remember, Gorby was going to tear down the wall anyway and the revenues would ahve nearly doubled anyway, Reagan was like Chauncy Gardner and really lucky all this just happened during his Presidency

Reagan and bin Laden

The fact is that the only metric that really matters is revenues as a share of the gross domestic product. By this measure, total federal revenues fell from 19.6 percent of GDP in 1981 to 18.4 percent of GDP by 1989. This suggests that revenues were $66 billion lower in 1989 as a result of Reagan’s policies.

This is not surprising given that no one in the Reagan administration ever claimed that his 1981 tax cut would pay for itself or that it did. Reagan economists Bill Niskanen and Martin Anderson have written extensively on this oft-repeated myth. Conservative economist Lawrence Lindsey made a thorough effort to calculate the feedback effect in his 1990 book, The Growth Experiment. He concluded that the behavioral and macroeconomic effects of the 1981 tax cut, resulting from both supply-side and demand-side effects, recouped about a third of the static revenue loss.



No, Gov. Pawlenty, Tax Cuts Don't Pay for Themselves | Stan Collender's Capital Gains and Games

You can tell the other side is crushed and defeated when they're making up phony, irrelevant metrics to prove their "point"

The point of the Reagan tax cuts was to STIMULATE THE US ECONOMY!!! It was not to stimulate government collections

Progs (Commie Wannabes) labor under the delusion that the Federal Government and US economy are one in the same

YOUR premise

'lead to a nearly doubling of government receipts '


Tax cuts do not Increase Revenue

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Why is Eastern Europe our problem?

Frankly, I could care less what happens to the EuroTrash, I'd just like to get back the middle class in this country Reagan gutted.

Ahh Joe, it sucks for you that Reagan demolished the Soviet empire and freed Eastern Europe from the dehumanizing oppression you want to bring here.

Sucks to be you. It really does.

PLEASE, Please make up your mind? Is communism a failed ideology or did Ronnie cause it to crash?


Did Reagan end the Cold War? Immediately after the Berlin Wall fell, a USA Today survey found that only 14% of respondents believed that. Historians mostly credit forty years of “Containment” by eight U.S. presidents. As Tony Judt’s Postwar concluded: “…Washington did not ‘bring down’ Communism – Communism imploded of its own accord.” I served in the USSR during perestroika and glasnost and later, in Russia after the breakup, and can attest to that; Gorbachev tried to reform a repressive, dysfunctional system and lost control of the process.



Vox Verax: The Whitewashing of Ronald Reagan

Ronnie's "To Do" List

1. Revitalize the US Economy through robust tax cuts
2. Defeat the USSR, consigning it to the ash heap of history

Fuck what "historians" say, they got it wrong in 1983 when they criticized Reagan for calling the USSR an Evil empire and they've been consistently wrong ever since

 

[CrusaderFrank]

The fact is that the only metric that really matters is revenues as a share of the gross domestic product. By this measure, total federal revenues fell from 19.6 percent of GDP in 1981 to 18.4 percent of GDP by 1989. This suggests that revenues were $66 billion lower in 1989 as a result of Reagan’s policies.

This is not surprising given that no one in the Reagan administration ever claimed that his 1981 tax cut would pay for itself or that it did. Reagan economists Bill Niskanen and Martin Anderson have written extensively on this oft-repeated myth. Conservative economist Lawrence Lindsey made a thorough effort to calculate the feedback effect in his 1990 book, The Growth Experiment. He concluded that the behavioral and macroeconomic effects of the 1981 tax cut, resulting from both supply-side and demand-side effects, recouped about a third of the static revenue loss.



No, Gov. Pawlenty, Tax Cuts Don't Pay for Themselves | Stan Collender's Capital Gains and Games

You can tell the other side is crushed and defeated when they're making up phony, irrelevant metrics to prove their "point"

The point of the Reagan tax cuts was to STIMULATE THE US ECONOMY!!! It was not to stimulate government collections

Progs (Commie Wannabes) labor under the delusion that the Federal Government and US economy are one in the same

YOUR premise

'lead to a nearly doubling of government receipts '


Tax cuts do not Increase Revenue

Wrong again

 

[Meathead]

reagan of course was the first politican to get abortions going as proved earlier in this thread and the reagan nut trolls can only sling shit in defeat like the trolls they are.

HW Bush's personal disinformation troll doesn't know Roe v Wade was decided in 1973

Roe v. Wade - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

As governor of California in 1967, Reagan signed a bill to liberalize the state's abortion laws that "resulted in more than a million abortions." When Reagan ran for president, he advocated a constitutional amendment that would have prohibited all abortions except when necessary to save the life of the mother, but once in office, he "never seriously pursued" curbing choice.

Ten reasons why Ronald Reagan would be persona non grata at CPAC 2013

He was great!

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Notice not a trace of joy from the Progs (Commie Wannabes) over Eastern Europe being liberated from Communism

 

[Dad2three]

Ahh Joe, it sucks for you that Reagan demolished the Soviet empire and freed Eastern Europe from the dehumanizing oppression you want to bring here.

Sucks to be you. It really does.

PLEASE, Please make up your mind? Is communism a failed ideology or did Ronnie cause it to crash?


Did Reagan end the Cold War? Immediately after the Berlin Wall fell, a USA Today survey found that only 14% of respondents believed that. Historians mostly credit forty years of “Containment” by eight U.S. presidents. As Tony Judt’s Postwar concluded: “…Washington did not ‘bring down’ Communism – Communism imploded of its own accord.” I served in the USSR during perestroika and glasnost and later, in Russia after the breakup, and can attest to that; Gorbachev tried to reform a repressive, dysfunctional system and lost control of the process.



Vox Verax: The Whitewashing of Ronald Reagan

Ronnie's "To Do" List

1. Revitalize the US Economy through robust tax cuts
2. Defeat the USSR, consigning it to the ash heap of history

Fuck what "historians" say, they got it wrong in 1983 when they criticized Reagan for calling the USSR an Evil empire and they've been consistently wrong ever since

Got it, You'll stick with myths and fairy tales

 

[Camp]

Notice not a trace of joy from the Progs (Commie Wannabes) over Eastern Europe being liberated from Communism

People of Eastern Europe will mostly be polite when you mention the delusion that Reagan brought down the USSR. Some of them will be insulted at your ignorance however. But would would they know. They only live there and lived through the revolution.

[ame=http://youtube.com/watch?v=I2SvhDY23So]Soviet troops vs unarmed Lithuanian civilians, Vilnius 1991. - YouTube[/ame]

http://youtube.com/watch/?v=1y4wLPgTxwk

Riga, Latvia battle in the streets with USSR occupation troops.

 

[JoeB131]

Well, see Reagan tax cuts only gutted revenues because they would have gone up anyway and the tax cuts, (follow this logic) kept revenue away from government (see, the Reagan haters have to take the position that the money all belongs to the government anyway) so actually the tax cuts that boosted the US economy and lead to a nearly doubling of government receipts actually hurt the economy (Try standing on your head it might make sense)

Except that didn't happen. The national Debt was less than trillion when Reagan took office and was up to 3 trillion when he left. He left more debt than his 39 predecessors combined with two world wars and a dozen smaller ones.

NO, the government did double receipts, AFTER the Tax Reform of 1986 where Reagan had to admit that the Laffer Curve really was voodoo economics.

Remember, Gorby was going to tear down the wall anyway and the revenues would ahve nearly doubled anyway, Reagan was like Chauncy Gardner and really lucky all this just happened during his Presidency

Reagan and bin Laden

Well, hard to say. Frankly, given a choice between Jihadists that Reagan armed and the communists, we were probably safer with the communists.

 

[JoeB131]

Notice not a trace of joy from the Progs (Commie Wannabes) over Eastern Europe being liberated from Communism

Half those countries have voted the Communists back into power, albeit under other names.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Notice not a trace of joy from the Progs (Commie Wannabes) over Eastern Europe being liberated from Communism

People of Eastern Europe will mostly be polite when you mention the delusion that Reagan brought down the USSR. Some of them will be insulted at your ignorance however. But would would they know. They only live there and lived through the revolution.

[ame=http://youtube.com/watch?v=I2SvhDY23So]Soviet troops vs unarmed Lithuanian civilians, Vilnius 1991. - YouTube[/ame]

http://youtube.com/watch/?v=1y4wLPgTxwk

Riga, Latvia battle in the streets with USSR occupation troops.

The Russian expats I've met say American liberals are the stupidest people on the planet and I think they were being kind. Accurate, but kind

You think socialism and redistribution is cool only because you never lived with true hardships they cause

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Well, see Reagan tax cuts only gutted revenues because they would have gone up anyway and the tax cuts, (follow this logic) kept revenue away from government (see, the Reagan haters have to take the position that the money all belongs to the government anyway) so actually the tax cuts that boosted the US economy and lead to a nearly doubling of government receipts actually hurt the economy (Try standing on your head it might make sense)

Except that didn't happen. The national Debt was less than trillion when Reagan took office and was up to 3 trillion when he left. He left more debt than his 39 predecessors combined with two world wars and a dozen smaller ones.

NO, the government did double receipts, AFTER the Tax Reform of 1986 where Reagan had to admit that the Laffer Curve really was voodoo economics.

Remember, Gorby was going to tear down the wall anyway and the revenues would ahve nearly doubled anyway, Reagan was like Chauncy Gardner and really lucky all this just happened during his Presidency

Reagan and bin Laden

Well, hard to say. Frankly, given a choice between Jihadists that Reagan armed and the communists, we were probably safer with the communists.

Like I said Joe it sucks to be you. Reagan never had a Republican congress he had to work with dems and they lied about cutting spending.

Also your boy Obama has one year deficits that eclipse all 8 of Reagans

 

[Camp]

Notice not a trace of joy from the Progs (Commie Wannabes) over Eastern Europe being liberated from Communism

People of Eastern Europe will mostly be polite when you mention the delusion that Reagan brought down the USSR. Some of them will be insulted at your ignorance however. But would would they know. They only live there and lived through the revolution.

[ame=http://youtube.com/watch?v=I2SvhDY23So]Soviet troops vs unarmed Lithuanian civilians, Vilnius 1991. - YouTube[/ame]

Soviet police specnaz on rampage in Riga, Latvia, 1991. - YouTube

Riga, Latvia battle in the streets with USSR occupation troops.

The Russian expats I've met say American liberals are the stupidest people on the planet and I think they were being kind. Accurate, but kind

You think socialism and redistribution is cool only because you never lived with true hardships they cause

Ya, well, you were talking about Eastern Europeans. Russians are a different story. If you want to talk about them we can. They are not the same.

Azerbaijan's road to Independence - YouTube

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Notice not a trace of joy from the Progs (Commie Wannabes) over Eastern Europe being liberated from Communism

Half those countries have voted the Communists back into power, albeit under other names.

But they voted. You hate that don't you.

 

[Camp]

Notice not a trace of joy from the Progs (Commie Wannabes) over Eastern Europe being liberated from Communism

Half those countries have voted the Communists back into power, albeit under other names.

But they voted. You hate that don't you.

What ever they have done, they don't give the credit to Reagan the way you do for having the privilege to do it. They give far more credit to there own efforts, which included dying in the streets during violent protest and the threat of a unified violent revolution of all the eastern European nations against the USSR in a coordinated and organized effort.

 

[JoeB131]

Notice not a trace of joy from the Progs (Commie Wannabes) over Eastern Europe being liberated from Communism

Half those countries have voted the Communists back into power, albeit under other names.

But they voted. You hate that don't you.

NO, I just don't see how that was my problem or why we needed to bankrupt this country and wreck the middle class so a few Eurotrash could vote.

 

[Jroc]

When President Reagan entered office in 1981, he faced actually much worse economic problems than President Obama faced in 2009. Three worsening recessions starting in 1969 were about to culminate in the worst of all in 1981-1982, with unemployment soaring into double digits at a peak of 10.8%. At the same time America suffered roaring double-digit inflation, with the CPI registering at 11.3% in 1979 and 13.5% in 1980 (25% in two years). The Washington establishment at the time argued that this inflation was now endemic to the American economy, and could not be stopped, at least not without a calamitous economic collapse.

All of the above was accompanied by double -igit interest rates, with the prime rate peaking at 21.5% in 1980. The poverty rate started increasing in 1978, eventually climbing by an astounding 33%, from 11.4% to 15.2%. A fall in real median family income that began in 1978 snowballed to a decline of almost 10% by 1982. In addition, from 1968 to 1982, the Dow Jones industrial average lost 70% of its real value, reflecting an overall collapse of stocks.

President Reagan campaigned on an explicitly articulated, four-point economic program to reverse this slow motion collapse of the American economy:

1. Cut tax rates to restore incentives for economic growth, which was implemented first with a reduction in the top income tax rate of 70% down to 50%, and then a 25% across-the-board reduction in income tax rates for everyone. The 1986 tax reform then reduced tax rates further, leaving just two rates, 28% and 15%.

2. Spending reductions, including a $31 billion cut in spending in 1981, close to 5% of the federal budget then, or the equivalent of about $175 billion in spending cuts for the year today. In constant dollars, nondefense discretionary spending declined by 14.4% from 1981 to 1982, and by 16.8% from 1981 to 1983. Moreover, in constant dollars, this nondefense discretionary spending never returned to its 1981 level for the rest of Reagan’s two terms! Even with the Reagan defense buildup, which won the Cold War without firing a shot, total federal spending declined from a high of 23.5% of GDP in 1983 to 21.3% in 1988 and 21.2% in 1989. That’s a real reduction in the size of government relative to the economy of 10%.

3. Anti-inflation monetary policy restraining money supply growth compared to demand, to maintain a stronger, more stable dollar value.

4. Deregulation, which saved consumers an estimated $100 billion per year in lower prices. Reagan’s first executive order, in fact, eliminated price controls on oil and natural gas. Production soared, and aided by a strong dollar the price of oil declined by more than 50%.

These economic policies amounted to the most successful economic experiment in world history. The Reagan recovery started in official records in November 1982, and lasted 92 months without a recession until July 1990, when the tax increases of the 1990 budget deal killed it. This set a new record for the longest peacetime expansion ever, the previous high in peacetime being 58 months.

During this seven-year recovery, the economy grew by almost one-third, the equivalent of adding the entire economy of West Germany, the third-largest in the world at the time, to the U.S. economy. In 1984 alone real economic growth boomed by 6.8%, the highest in 50 years. Nearly 20 million new jobs were created during the recovery, increasing U.S. civilian employment by almost 20%. Unemployment fell to 5.3% by 1989.

Reaganomics Vs. Obamanomics: Facts And Figures - Forbes

Reagan's Great Recession didn't begin until summer 81... 7 MONTHS after he took office. Obama walked into an economy that had dumped 700,000+ jobs the previous month AND had contracted 9%+. Everything else is right wing CRAP

One of the realities of economics,Bubba is the lag factor. When one begins with a big hole to fill, it takes time and resources to fill it before you get to start with level ground.


Weird how the right wingers LOVED Reagan blowing up the deficits via his tax cuts for the rich and GREATLY increasing spending (see stimulus effect)....

Reagan's? Carter's recession....get it straight and the numbers don't lie

 

[Dad2three]

Well, see Reagan tax cuts only gutted revenues because they would have gone up anyway and the tax cuts, (follow this logic) kept revenue away from government (see, the Reagan haters have to take the position that the money all belongs to the government anyway) so actually the tax cuts that boosted the US economy and lead to a nearly doubling of government receipts actually hurt the economy (Try standing on your head it might make sense)

Except that didn't happen. The national Debt was less than trillion when Reagan took office and was up to 3 trillion when he left. He left more debt than his 39 predecessors combined with two world wars and a dozen smaller ones.

NO, the government did double receipts, AFTER the Tax Reform of 1986 where Reagan had to admit that the Laffer Curve really was voodoo economics.

Remember, Gorby was going to tear down the wall anyway and the revenues would ahve nearly doubled anyway, Reagan was like Chauncy Gardner and really lucky all this just happened during his Presidency

Reagan and bin Laden

Well, hard to say. Frankly, given a choice between Jihadists that Reagan armed and the communists, we were probably safer with the communists.

Like I said Joe it sucks to be you. Reagan never had a Republican congress he had to work with dems and they lied about cutting spending.

Also your boy Obama has one year deficits that eclipse all 8 of Reagans

The historical myth that Reagan raised $1 in taxes for every $3 in spending cuts

The Facts

Despite Reagan’s claim that he made a deal with the Democrats, the Senate at the time was controlled by Republicans. Sen. Bob Dole of Kansas — then chairman of the Finance Committee and later the majority leader and Republican nominee for president — was a driving force behind a big tax increase because he was concerned about soaring deficits after Reagan had boosted defense spending and slashed taxes.

Dole warned the White House that the final year of Reagan’s three-year tax cut was at risk unless revenue could be raised in other ways. Under Dole’s leadership, the Senate Finance Committee led the way in crafting a big tax bill, fending off efforts by Democrats to halt Reagan’s tax cut.....


The Pinocchio Test

It is time to abandon this myth. Reagan may have convinced himself he had been snookered, but that belief is based on a fundamental misunderstanding of the deal he had reached.

Congress was never expected to match the tax increases with spending cuts on a 3-to-1 basis. Reagan appeared to acknowledge this in his speech when he referred to outlays (which would include interest expenses), rather than spending cuts. In the end, lawmakers apparently did a better job of living up to the bargain than the administration did.

If people want to cite the lessons of history, they need to get the history right in the first place.


The historical myth that Reagan raised $1 of taxes in exchange for $3 of spending cuts - The Washington Post

 

[Dad2three]

Reaganomics Vs. Obamanomics: Facts And Figures - Forbes

Reagan's Great Recession didn't begin until summer 81... 7 MONTHS after he took office. Obama walked into an economy that had dumped 700,000+ jobs the previous month AND had contracted 9%+. Everything else is right wing CRAP

One of the realities of economics,Bubba is the lag factor. When one begins with a big hole to fill, it takes time and resources to fill it before you get to start with level ground.


Weird how the right wingers LOVED Reagan blowing up the deficits via his tax cuts for the rich and GREATLY increasing spending (see stimulus effect)....

Reagan's? Carter's recession....get it straight and the numbers don't lie

According to the accepted arbiter of the economy’s ups and downs, the National Bureau for Economic Research, a brief recession in 1980 — lasting only six months — and a short period of growth, were followed by a sustained recession from July 1981 to November 1982. The unemployment rate hovered between 7% and 8% from the summer of 1980 to the fall of 1981, when it began to rise quickly. By March 1982 it had reached 9%, and in December of that year the unemployment rate stood at its recession peak of 10.8%. The jobless rate slowly receded over the next few years, falling to 8.3% by the end of 1983 and to 7.2% by the 1984 presidential election. The unemployment rate did not fall below 6%, however, until September 1987

Reagan?s Recession | Pew Research Center

 

[Jroc]

Reagan's Great Recession didn't begin until summer 81... 7 MONTHS after he took office. Obama walked into an economy that had dumped 700,000+ jobs the previous month AND had contracted 9%+. Everything else is right wing CRAP

One of the realities of economics,Bubba is the lag factor. When one begins with a big hole to fill, it takes time and resources to fill it before you get to start with level ground.


Weird how the right wingers LOVED Reagan blowing up the deficits via his tax cuts for the rich and GREATLY increasing spending (see stimulus effect)....

Reagan's? Carter's recession....get it straight and the numbers don't lie

According to the accepted arbiter of the economy’s ups and downs, the National Bureau for Economic Research, a brief recession in 1980 — lasting only six months — and a short period of growth, were followed by a sustained recession from July 1981 to November 1982. The unemployment rate hovered between 7% and 8% from the summer of 1980 to the fall of 1981, when it began to rise quickly. By March 1982 it had reached 9%, and in December of that year the unemployment rate stood at its recession peak of 10.8%. The jobless rate slowly receded over the next few years, falling to 8.3% by the end of 1983 and to 7.2% by the 1984 presidential election. The unemployment rate did not fall below 6%, however, until September 1987

Reagan?s Recession | Pew Research Center

Reagan's' tax reform wasn't even fully implemented until 1983. It had to be that way to get through the Democrat congress. The Carter recession hack, you revisionist nut jobs are laughable