Reagan & Conservatives -- Revisonist History 101

[Meathead]

Dante, try some Preparation H. It's not exactly for your problem, but it's OTC and it can't hurt.

 

[JoeB131]

good lord your teachers really did program you well didnt they?

Guy, I was in the Armed forces from 1981 to 1992.

You know what the DIA did every year for us. They published this big fun book about the USSR entitled "Opposing Forces" that detailed all sorts of kewl info about Russian divisons and military strength and glossy picutres of their tanks, ships and planes (even the Buran Space Shuttle that never made it into space). And they published a new version of this book every year.

All the way up until 1991.

Three years after Reagan left office and was enjoying his Alzheimers. Even as they were chipping away at the Berlin Wall. The USSR was still the big threat. Until it wasn't.

The point being, the Fall of the Soviet Empire had nothing to do with a senile old actor, and caught us completely by surprise. We never saw it coming.

..You mad it funny We forced it via Ronald Reagan

No, dumbass. All Reagan did was spend us into bankruptcy and destroy the middle class.

The USSR Fell because 300 million Not Russians got tired of the Russians telling them what to do.

It was no more caused by Reagan than the Fall of the British Empire. That happened when a bunch of Indians and Arabs and Africans all told the King to get Bent.

 

[Meathead]

Guy, I was in the Armed forces from 1981 to 1992.

You know what the DIA did every year for us. They published this big fun book about the USSR entitled "Opposing Forces" that detailed all sorts of kewl info about Russian divisons and military strength and glossy picutres of their tanks, ships and planes (even the Buran Space Shuttle that never made it into space). And they published a new version of this book every year.

All the way up until 1991.

Three years after Reagan left office and was enjoying his Alzheimers. Even as they were chipping away at the Berlin Wall. The USSR was still the big threat. Until it wasn't.

The point being, the Fall of the Soviet Empire had nothing to do with a senile old actor, and caught us completely by surprise. We never saw it coming.

..You mad it funny We forced it via Ronald Reagan

No, dumbass. All Reagan did was spend us into bankruptcy and destroy the middle class.

The USSR Fell because 300 million Not Russians got tired of the Russians telling them what to do.

It was no more caused by Reagan than the Fall of the British Empire. That happened when a bunch of Indians and Arabs and Africans all told the King to get Bent.

You'll have to forgive him. He's got it tough you see. He lives in a shit hole, can't keep a job and dates livestock.

<Joe, I can't keep apologizing for you all the time ffs!>

 

[JoeB131]

..You mad it funny We forced it via Ronald Reagan

No, dumbass. All Reagan did was spend us into bankruptcy and destroy the middle class.

The USSR Fell because 300 million Not Russians got tired of the Russians telling them what to do.

It was no more caused by Reagan than the Fall of the British Empire. That happened when a bunch of Indians and Arabs and Africans all told the King to get Bent.

You'll have to forgive him. He's got it tough you see. He lives in a shit hole, can't keep a job and dates livestock.

<Joe, I can't keep apologizing for you all the time ffs!>

Guy, make sure you punch holes in the boxes when you send over those mail-order brides.

The last batch we had quite the mess on our hands.

 

[Meathead]

No, dumbass. All Reagan did was spend us into bankruptcy and destroy the middle class.

The USSR Fell because 300 million Not Russians got tired of the Russians telling them what to do.

It was no more caused by Reagan than the Fall of the British Empire. That happened when a bunch of Indians and Arabs and Africans all told the King to get Bent.

You'll have to forgive him. He's got it tough you see. He lives in a shit hole, can't keep a job and dates livestock.

<Joe, I can't keep apologizing for you all the time ffs!>

Guy, make sure you punch holes in the boxes when you send over those mail-order brides.

The last batch we had quite the mess on our hands.

Well, if you order from gypsies what do you expect? Christ, they're probably filthier than the livestock you commonly date.

 

[JoeB131]

You'll have to forgive him. He's got it tough you see. He lives in a shit hole, can't keep a job and dates livestock.

<Joe, I can't keep apologizing for you all the time ffs!>

Guy, make sure you punch holes in the boxes when you send over those mail-order brides.

The last batch we had quite the mess on our hands.

Well, if you order from gypsies what do you expect? Christ, they're probably filthier than the livestock you commonly date.

Oh, you're going on about the Gypsies now...

And black people...

I'm waiting for you to comment on the Jews next.

 

[Meathead]

Guy, make sure you punch holes in the boxes when you send over those mail-order brides.

The last batch we had quite the mess on our hands.

Well, if you order from gypsies what do you expect? Christ, they're probably filthier than the livestock you commonly date.

Oh, you're going on about the Gypsies now...

And black people...

I'm waiting for you to comment on the Jews next.

No Joe, it's not about them. It's about you, your fondness of livestock and your racism against Czechs.

 

[editec]

Who can hate the Czechs?

Everybody loves the Czechs...they're like Europe's favorite victims.

Even Hitler planned on keeping them alive and we all know what a genocidal prick that guy was.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

Reagan & Conservatives -- Revisonist History 101

1988: Reagan Abandoned, Mocked by Hardline Conservatives​

This is why the GOP lost in 2008 and 2012: They are living in a past that never existed, just like Reagan did. Reagan raised taxes, grew government, backed socialist programs, and more. When a political party lives on myth, sooner or later it all just collapses into a warm pile of shit

1988: Reagan Abandoned, Mocked by Hardline Conservatives
George Will

As the end of President Reagan’s final term approaches, conservatives and hardliners have radically changed their view of him. They originally saw him as one of their own—a crusader for good against evil, obstinately opposed to communism in general and to any sort of arms reduction agreement with the Soviet Union in specific. But recent events—Reagan’s recent moderation in rhetoric towards the Soviets (see December 1983 and After), the summits with Soviet Premier Mikhail Gorbachev (see November 16-19, 1985 and October 11-12, 1986), and the recent arms treaties with the Soviets (see Early 1985 and December 7-8, 1987) have soured them on Reagan.

Hardliners had once held considerable power in the Reagan administration (see January 1981 and After and Early 1981 and After), but their influence has steadily waned, and their attempts to sabotage and undermine arms control negotiations (see April 1981 and After, September 1981 through November 1983, May 1982 and After, and April 1983-December 1983), initially quite successful, have grown less effective and more desperate (see Before November 16, 1985). Attempts by administration hardliners to get “soft” officials such as Secretary of State George Shultz fired do not succeed. Conservative pundits such as George Will and William Safire lambast Reagan, with Will accusing him of “moral disarmament” and Safire mocking Reagan’s rapport with Gorbachev: “He professed to see in Mr. Gorbachev’s eyes an end to the Soviet goal of world domination.” It will not be until after the collapse of the Soviet Union and the tearing down of the Berlin Wall (see November 9, 1989 and After) that conservatives will revise their opinion of Reagan, in the process revising much of history in the process. [Scoblic, 2008, pp. 143-145]

Entity Tags: George Will, George Shultz, William Safire, Mikhail Gorbachev, Ronald Reagan

So it was Reagan's becoming more liberal towards the Soviets, that brought about Reagan's deals with the Soviets, that led to a warming of the cold war and the end of the Soviets' hostility distrust of the west and the USA

------------------------

Guy, I was in the Armed forces from 1981 to 1992.

You know what the DIA did every year for us. They published this big fun book about the USSR entitled "Opposing Forces" that detailed all sorts of kewl info about Russian divisons and military strength and glossy picutres of their tanks, ships and planes (even the Buran Space Shuttle that never made it into space). And they published a new version of this book every year.

All the way up until 1991.

Three years after Reagan left office and was enjoying his Alzheimers. Even as they were chipping away at the Berlin Wall. The USSR was still the big threat. Until it wasn't.

The point being, the Fall of the Soviet Empire had nothing to do with a senile old actor, and caught us completely by surprise. We never saw it coming.

..You mad it funny We forced it via Ronald Reagan

Yeah, East German border guards misread orders and all of a sudden tge rightwing who attacked Reagan as weak and a bumbling fool for having dealt civilly with Gorby....


...oh never mind. You people like the d Soviets you despised, reinvent history all the time.

http://www.usmessageboard.com/histo...ervatives-revisonist-history-101-a-print.html

.

100 Media Moments that Changed America
books.google.com/books?isbn...
Jim Willis - 2010 - *History
The fall of the wall may have seemed like an instantaneous event, but it was not ... 165 The actual breach of the Wall by Eastern Germans was allowed by border guards who had misread*...

100 Media Moments that Changed America - Jim Willis - Google Books




----------

The failure of the wingnuts who worship at the altar of Reagan to addrress reality does justice to the true Reagan legacy: The Legacy of Duh!

 

[Jroc]

Guy, I was in the Armed forces from 1981 to 1992.

You know what the DIA did every year for us. They published this big fun book about the USSR entitled "Opposing Forces" that detailed all sorts of kewl info about Russian divisons and military strength and glossy picutres of their tanks, ships and planes (even the Buran Space Shuttle that never made it into space). And they published a new version of this book every year.

All the way up until 1991.

Three years after Reagan left office and was enjoying his Alzheimers. Even as they were chipping away at the Berlin Wall. The USSR was still the big threat. Until it wasn't.

The point being, the Fall of the Soviet Empire had nothing to do with a senile old actor, and caught us completely by surprise. We never saw it coming.

..You mad it funny We forced it via Ronald Reagan

No, dumbass. All Reagan did was spend us into bankruptcy and destroy the middle class.

The USSR Fell because 300 million Not Russians got tired of the Russians telling them what to do.

It was no more caused by Reagan than the Fall of the British Empire. That happened when a bunch of Indians and Arabs and Africans all told the King to get Bent.

Get some help man...Really

 

[antique4xpu]

so let me understand this

reagan invented sliced bread , the flush toilet , and he freed the slaves ........ got it

 

[bendog]

Well, he was only alive for the first two out of three, so I think we can assume he didn't free slaves. (-:

 

[bendog]

Dante, I don't think Reagan became "more liberal" to the soviets at any pt, including when Gorbachav entered the stage. Rather, I think your pts about Safire and Will ridiculing Reagan for going soft are just another incidence of Reagan being underestimated. Reagan was lampooned as a man of few ideas, which was true; he was no Slick in being able to give a synopsis of how govt did something. But, Reagan set out to win the Cold War. They'd lose, we'd win. Safire and Will were so used to political machievellian manuever, Reagan just initially went over their heads too.

I didn't vote for the man, because of his spending. He had two central ideas: the Soviets were evil and needed beating and the govt was too involved in deciding market winners. I agreed with both, but thought his spending, and inclusion of the Relgious Right, inevitably doomed real reform on the latter idea.

 

[Meathead]

so let me understand this

reagan invented sliced bread , the flush toilet , and he freed the slaves ........ got it

No, those had already been done. Reagan helped bring down the USSR and free the Warsaw Pact states, brought about an ailing economy, marginalized left for a generation made Americans proud once again after the Johnson-Nixon-Carter catastrophes. Not fucking bad!

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

Dante, I don't think Reagan became "more liberal" to the soviets at any pt, including when Gorbachav entered the stage. Rather, I think your pts about Safire and Will ridiculing Reagan for going soft are just another incidence of Reagan being underestimated. Reagan was lampooned as a man of few ideas, which was true; he was no Slick in being able to give a synopsis of how govt did something. But, Reagan set out to win the Cold War. They'd lose, we'd win. Safire and Will were so used to political machievellian manuever, Reagan just initially went over their heads too.

I didn't vote for the man, because of his spending. He had two central ideas: the Soviets were evil and needed beating and the govt was too involved in deciding market winners. I agreed with both, but thought his spending, and inclusion of the Relgious Right, inevitably doomed real reform on the latter idea.

You've bought into the Reagan Legacy myth, but it's underdstandable. It has been the current narrative for a few decades.

Reagan was like the psychic who makes so many predictions for so long a time one of them is bound to bear fruit.

Reagan was initially reactionary and tough with the Soviets and while that sped up the decay of the Soviet Empire, it neither initiated it or caused tbe fall of the Berlin Wall.

The Soviet system was resistent to change, but with the coming of the 20th century tgere were lots of sources at play that spelled trouble...internal as well as external.

The Berlin Wall? It fell not because Gorby agreed to tear it down. It fell because of internal forces within East Germany and because of the liberal policies of Gorby and others...liberal policies made more viable by Reagan later softening his stance and policues toward the Eastern Bloc and particularily the Soviets

Like Obama, Reagan disappointed his most ardent and earliest supporters. With Obama, we have yet to see how his terms in office end and how his legacy gets 'invented'

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

so let me understand this

reagan invented sliced bread , the flush toilet , and he freed the slaves ........ got it

No, those had already been done. Reagan helped bring down the USSR and free the Warsaw Pact states, brought about an ailing economy, marginalized left for a generation made Americans proud once again after the Johnson-Nixon-Carter catastrophes. Not fucking bad!

Archie Bunker: "Meathead = dead from the neck up." How very appropriate a scream name for you.

 

[Camp]

According to the Reagan fans and gorifiers, internal affairs in the USSR had absolutely nothing to do with the fall. People like Andrei Sakhorov, his wife Yelena Bonner and Solzhenitsyn had no impact and were meaningless in the effort???

 

[bendog]

Dante, I don't think Reagan became "more liberal" to the soviets at any pt, including when Gorbachav entered the stage. Rather, I think your pts about Safire and Will ridiculing Reagan for going soft are just another incidence of Reagan being underestimated. Reagan was lampooned as a man of few ideas, which was true; he was no Slick in being able to give a synopsis of how govt did something. But, Reagan set out to win the Cold War. They'd lose, we'd win. Safire and Will were so used to political machievellian manuever, Reagan just initially went over their heads too.

I didn't vote for the man, because of his spending. He had two central ideas: the Soviets were evil and needed beating and the govt was too involved in deciding market winners. I agreed with both, but thought his spending, and inclusion of the Relgious Right, inevitably doomed real reform on the latter idea.

You've bought into the Reagan Legacy myth, but it's underdstandable. It has been the current narrative for a few decades.

Reagan was like the psychic who makes so many predictions for so long a time one of them is bound to bear fruit.

Reagan was initially reactionary and tough with the Soviets and while that sped up the decay of the Soviet Empire, it neither initiated it or caused tbe fall of the Berlin Wall.

The Soviet system was resistent to change, but with the coming of the 20th century tgere were lots of sources at play that spelled trouble...internal as well as external.

The Berlin Wall? It fell not because Gorby agreed to tear it down. It fell because of internal forces within East Germany and because of the liberal policies of Gorby and others...liberal policies made more viable by Reagan later softening his stance and policues toward the Eastern Bloc and particularily the Soviets

Like Obama, Reagan disappointed his most ardent and earliest supporters. With Obama, we have yet to see how his terms in office end and how his legacy gets 'invented'

you misunderstood, I think, to read my post as saying Reagan won the Cold War. That was his goal, and one that people like Will and Safire didn't grasp. Reagan didn't want approachment or accord; he wanted it DEAD. Nixon too found this overly simplistic. As did the opponents of arms control. My point is simply that Reagan, the simpleton, was vindicated by history.

I don't think Reagan foresaw the impact of the technical revolution, which was the real Soviet killer.

The space program, govt sponsored research and defense all spurred the tech revolution ... but it was IBM, Apple and Msft, and private industry incorporating communication and tech applications. Unlike the TPM, Reagan had no issue with govt involment in supporting markets.

The central planning of the Soviet economy wasn't amenable to managing markets like that. It did well with building hydroelectric power ... and not so well with nuclear plants ... but they actually had higher gnp increases late in the industrial revolution. "Liberal" economists in the 60s and 70s predicted the soviets' market theory inevitably doomed them, and coincidentally that was my education. Reagan either never bought that or he simply didn't care. He was going to build a conventional force to meet them, and outspend them on nuclear offense/defense.

But, I do think Reagan has to get some credit for buying into neoliberalism, Thatcherism, and the Kemp Roth tax cuts. The problem for me was simply that he didn't PAY FOR THE TAX CUTS. In short, he failed his own vision to make govt smaller. That' s his central ideological inconsistency: his small govt belief inherently conflicted with miltary confrontion with the Godless Bolsheviks.

 

[Friends]

Ronald Reagan is estimated to have had an IQ of 105.

List of Famous IQ's Page II of IV - IQ of Famous People

He was like someone who does not know how to play poker, but who is dealt several winning hands.

Reagan was a group phenomenon. His advisers ran the country. Reagan was an appealing front man who needed to be told what to say and where to put his feet. According to David Stockman, Edwin Meese was "the acting president."

During the Republican National Convention of 1964 Ronald Reagan gave a speech that was empty of insight, but full of the cliches reactionaries like to hear. Meese decided that Reagan had the charisma to lead the cause of Republican reaction after Barry Goldwater suffered a well deserved public flogging in the presidential election of 1964.

The first winning hand dealt to Reagan was the Berkeley Free Speech Movement. That was harmless, but irritating to voters who did not sympathize with students who were getting a low tuition education at one of the finest universities in the world, and who did not like how it was run.

Another winning hand was the Watts Riot of 1965, and worse black ghetto riots in 1966.

Jimmy Carter was not responsible for the Iranian Revolution, and the gasoline lines and inflation it lead to, but he was blamed.

Obama's approval rating has often been higher than Reagan's after they had been in office an equal number of months, but Reagan did carry forty nine out of fifty states in 1984. That stays in the mind, and contributes to the Reagan myth.

During the election of 1980 most reactionary voters remembered the disappointment of the election of 1964. They had hoped that Goldwater as president would repeal the reforms of the New Deal. Instead Lyndon Johnson won 61 percent of the vote. The Democrats won two to one majorities in both houses of Congress. The country began to move in exactly the opposite distance the reactionaries wanted. When a mass movement arose in opposition to Johnson it was to the left of Johnson.

After the election of 1964 reactionaries thought the United States, or at least their vision of the United States, was doomed. When Reagan won in 1980 with essentially the same program that Barry Goldwater promoted in 1964, reactionaries thought history had ended happily ever after.

 

[Friends]

I do think Reagan has to get some credit for buying into neoliberalism, Thatcherism, and the Kemp Roth tax cuts. The problem for me was simply that he didn't PAY FOR THE TAX CUTS. In short, he failed his own vision to make govt smaller. That' s his central ideological inconsistency: his small govt belief inherently conflicted with miltary confrontion with the Godless Bolsheviks.

When Ronald Reagan ran in 1980 he said he could cut taxes, raise defense spending, and balance the budget by 1983, by cutting "waste, fraud, and abuse." He never said anything about cutting popular domestic spending programs. Most whites thought that all he needed to do was to tell "the welfare queen of Chicago," and "strapping young bucks buying t bone steak with food stamps," to get jobs.

The enduring legacy of Ronald Reagan was to convince most Republican voters that they can have the government they want without paying for it. His economic policies, and GOP policies since him, have been essentially fraudulent.