Real Racism: A History of the Democratic Party

[NYcarbineer]

Like Jake said, and with whom I agree with partially, is that you must inherit your history, racism and all.

How does that work? If, hypothetically, your grandfather happened to be a bank robber, and your father happened to be a wife beater,

how exactly would your inheritance of that manifest itself?

What part of that would you be to blame for?

None of it. But you would still be attributed to them because they are related to you. .

Let's be clear on this. Are you saying that I could be rightfully blamed for the sins of my father and grandfather?

 

[NYcarbineer]

A Democrat is a Democrat, buddy. Sorry to break that to ya!

So my OP was a success. All you can do is call me stupid, idiotic, and tedious. You lack a coherent argument, because as I just read, buckeye just kicked your ass, badly.

The Dixiecrat Myth | Black & Right

My work here is done.

To quote YOUR link:

Goldwater’s heir, Ronald Reagan, sealed this deal for the GOP. The new ”Solid South” was solid GOP.

So in your opinion, the heir to the idiocy of Goldwater was the idiot Reagan,

along with the apparently idiotic new solid south, for whom the idiot Goldwater's heir became their new superhero.

Goldwater was far from what Reagan aspired to be.

]

Oh really? And right off the top of your head, name the most important significant contrasts between the Goldwater agenda and the Reagan agenda.

 

[JoeB131]

Goldwater was far from what Reagan aspired to be.

So why did Reagan whip Carter and Mondale in those elections? Because he won 44 states in 1980, and 48 states in 1984, almost a third of Democrats voted for Reagan in 1980, and 1984.

]

Reagan won 49 states in 1984, but you were too young to have been there. So I'll give you a pass on your ignorance.

1980 was a different issue. Anderson split the liberal base, and Carter looked ineffective after he insisted he could resolve the Iran crisis and couldn't.

Here was the thing. The Democrats in 1984 had exactly the same problem Republicans had in 2012. The party was so enslaved to the Whims of the base that it could not reach out to the middle. Mondale spent so much time appeasing Jesse Jackson and the AFL-CIO that they simply could not appeal to the "Reagan Democrats" who were socially conservative.

Also, Mondale made the mistake of being honest. He said he'd have to raise taxes. Reagan promised he wouldn't.. and then went ahead and did it anyway.

NOw, the GOP has the same problem today. They are so enslaved to the anti-Choice whacks, the gun whacks, the Christian whacks and the 1%ers that they don't connect with the working class at this point.

Incidently, the way Democrats broke back in was when Bill Clinton had a "Sister Souljah" moment- when he finally called Jesse Jackson out on his bullshit.

Romney couldn't stand up to a nobody like Bryan Fischer.

So what does have to do with any of my thread? I will not give any of it a response other than it is irrelevant to the subject matter.

Did you need someone to explain the big words to you, Cleetus?

 

[TemplarKormac]

How does that work? If, hypothetically, your grandfather happened to be a bank robber, and your father happened to be a wife beater,

how exactly would your inheritance of that manifest itself?

What part of that would you be to blame for?

None of it. But you would still be attributed to them because they are related to you. .

Let's be clear on this. Are you saying that I could be rightfully blamed for the sins of my father and grandfather?

If you advocated and defended them, you may as well be. You may very well be just as susceptible to committing those same sins. But this is also irrelevant. You cannot acknowledge your own history, carbine. Just give it up. How does any of this apply to my OP?

No more responses will be given forthwith. You can argue with someone else on philosophy.

 

[TemplarKormac]

Reagan won 49 states in 1984, but you were too young to have been there. So I'll give you a pass on your ignorance.

1980 was a different issue. Anderson split the liberal base, and Carter looked ineffective after he insisted he could resolve the Iran crisis and couldn't.

Here was the thing. The Democrats in 1984 had exactly the same problem Republicans had in 2012. The party was so enslaved to the Whims of the base that it could not reach out to the middle. Mondale spent so much time appeasing Jesse Jackson and the AFL-CIO that they simply could not appeal to the "Reagan Democrats" who were socially conservative.

Also, Mondale made the mistake of being honest. He said he'd have to raise taxes. Reagan promised he wouldn't.. and then went ahead and did it anyway.

NOw, the GOP has the same problem today. They are so enslaved to the anti-Choice whacks, the gun whacks, the Christian whacks and the 1%ers that they don't connect with the working class at this point.

Incidently, the way Democrats broke back in was when Bill Clinton had a "Sister Souljah" moment- when he finally called Jesse Jackson out on his bullshit.

Romney couldn't stand up to a nobody like Bryan Fischer.

So what does have to do with any of my thread? I will not give any of it a response other than it is irrelevant to the subject matter.

Did you need someone to explain the big words to you, Cleetus?

One word. Ir-rel-e-vant. Do I need to teach you some English, Jose?

 

[NYcarbineer]

Like Jake said, and with whom I agree with partially, is that you must inherit your history, racism and all.

How does that work? If, hypothetically, your grandfather happened to be a bank robber, and your father happened to be a wife beater,

how exactly would your inheritance of that manifest itself?

What part of that would you be to blame for?

None of it. But you would still be attributed to them because they are related to you. That's how families work. If you supported their behavior, you may as well get blamed for it, and may very well be a bank robber yourself. If you didn't, though, your past would still haunt you.

And believe it or not, you just busted up Jake's argument about inheritance, not mine.

You can't handle it. Racism is more attributed to Democrats than Republicans, history bears that out, no matter how much you try to spin it.

You can divert, deflect, reorient the goalposts, or spin this as much as you like; my argument is infallible, and I will continue to argue it until you leave the thread or log off. Many people in the last forum I left referred to me as a bulldog, because I always stuck to my guns. You on the other hand, cannot stick to one point long enough to mount effective argument.

Just face it, those were Democrats back then, and when you say you are, the first thing that comes to mind is their obstructionism to racial equality. Had the Republican party been racist, none of them would have touched the Civil Rights act. None. Reality.

96% of Northern Democrats voted FOR the Civil Rights act.

Only 85% of Northern Republicans voted for it.

So in both the North and the South, on this very regional issue, Democrats supported the Civil Rights Act in higher percentages than did Republicans,

and yet you wish to translate that into meaning that the Democrats are the party of racism.

 

[JoeB131]

So what does have to do with any of my thread? I will not give any of it a response other than it is irrelevant to the subject matter.

Did you need someone to explain the big words to you, Cleetus?

One word. Ir-rel-e-vant. Do I need to teach you some English, Jose?

Again Cleetus. YOu needs someones to explain the big words you didn't learn in Home-Skule?

I explained to you exactly why Reagan won where Goldwater couldn't. I could explain it further, but you still wouldn't understand it.

 

[NYcarbineer]

None of it. But you would still be attributed to them because they are related to you. .

Let's be clear on this. Are you saying that I could be rightfully blamed for the sins of my father and grandfather?

If you advocated and defended them, you may as well be. You may very well be just as susceptible to committing those same sins. But this is also irrelevant. You cannot acknowledge your own history, carbine. Just give it up. How does any of this apply to my OP?

No more responses will be given forthwith. You can argue with someone else on philosophy.

Just for the record I'm a registered Independent.

Can you name the modern day Democrats who defend, support, or in any way praise the Southern conservative wing of the Democratic Party as it existed in days of yore?

Can you list those people?

 

[JoeB131]

Let's be clear on this. Are you saying that I could be rightfully blamed for the sins of my father and grandfather?

If you advocated and defended them, you may as well be. You may very well be just as susceptible to committing those same sins. But this is also irrelevant. You cannot acknowledge your own history, carbine. Just give it up. How does any of this apply to my OP?

No more responses will be given forthwith. You can argue with someone else on philosophy.

Just for the record I'm a registered Independent.

Can you name the modern day Democrats who defend, support, or in any way praise the Southern conservative wing of the Democratic Party as it existed in days of yore?

Can you list those people?

Trent Lott?

Oh, wait, no, he was a Republican.

 

[TemplarKormac]

To quote YOUR link:

Goldwater’s heir, Ronald Reagan, sealed this deal for the GOP. The new ”Solid South” was solid GOP.

So in your opinion, the heir to the idiocy of Goldwater was the idiot Reagan,

along with the apparently idiotic new solid south, for whom the idiot Goldwater's heir became their new superhero.

Goldwater was far from what Reagan aspired to be.

]

Oh really? And right off the top of your head, name the most important significant contrasts between the Goldwater agenda and the Reagan agenda.

Their views on abortion, religion and foreign policy (which is well noted). He was a protege at one point, but soon after became a staunch hard line Democrat for some time before defecting to the Republican party. It was at that time he departed with the ways of Goldwater altogether. Consequentially he never endorsed Reagan for president in either of those elections.

Goldwater was a Libertarian, and Reagan was a Conservative Republican. So you see, big differences.

 

[TemplarKormac]

If you advocated and defended them, you may as well be. You may very well be just as susceptible to committing those same sins. But this is also irrelevant. You cannot acknowledge your own history, carbine. Just give it up. How does any of this apply to my OP?

No more responses will be given forthwith. You can argue with someone else on philosophy.

Just for the record I'm a registered Independent.

Can you name the modern day Democrats who defend, support, or in any way praise the Southern conservative wing of the Democratic Party as it existed in days of yore?

Can you list those people?

Trent Lott?

Was a Democrat before 1972.

 

[poet]

Can you name segregationist democrats that switched, preferably those that held office

So your answer is "None". Then what is the point of this thread?

No, strom did, I dont have to demagogue an issue. The point of this thread, altough I'm not the OP......and if Im wrong, the OP can correct me, was to show that the democrat party was and still is the party of racism...

Now it's a very complicated and nuance view of modern racism.
Obviously overt racism is pretty much dead, and I think we all agree that's a good thing.

But when people say the southern strategy, it's an attempt by the left to nullify the republican ascendancy in the south.

Like many liberals in this thread I believed in it.....but then I moved to Tennessee in 1992 and didnt see any racists in the republican clubs, primaries and more recently tea party events.

But I did see a democrat governor, Well fed Ned, who started TennCare
I did see 2 democrat senators James Sasser and Harlan Mathews

For state offices, they were dominated by democrats... and the narrative was that republicans dominated tennesse and they didnt, not until the mid 90s did they consistantly elect statewide officers and 2000s until they got state reps.

Republicans attained an elected majority in the Senate in the 104th General Assembly for the first time since Reconstruction;

Williams was elected as speaker of the Tennessee House on January 13, 2009, in a surprising divergence from the Republican party's accepted plan for succession. Democrats, who had lost the majority in the House for the first time since 1969


The point is democrats dominated the southern states, the racist didnt switch parties, because they were

a) very few leaders switch, Stom is the biggest name, and noone will give any others
b)the racists kept voting for democrats....or the republicans would have swept everything...
c) the only tool they can use is presidential elections, but again the republicans won in huge landslids in 72, 80, 84, and 88
The democrats won the south in 68, 76 and split in 92 and 96
So the republican didnt really win a contested race in the south until 2000..

Now why did the south go republican....well look at the black vote, I was shocked to learn Nixon in 60 only got 39%, this is WITH RACISTS in the democrat party, so why would vote for that......it's the same reason they vote now for it.....government programs, which democrats make synonymous with minorities.....so it wasnt to scare off blacks....

the south went republican for two main reasons:
1) the south was getting better educated and wealthier
2) republicans were leaving the midwest and east because of taxes and unions...so both are intertwined.
My dad was a professor for Ohio State and became one for U. of Tenn. for those very reasons (and a nice pay increase!)

Ok now how are the democrat still racist, right?
Because they expect blacks to vote democrat or they are marginalized by being unauthentic, white, oreo, uncle tom, ect ect
Also becsaue they looke at black folks as needing training wheels like govt programs and affirmative action...
they put them in ghettos, you dont see many whites in ghettos, some in shitty trailer parks, but not really ghettos..herded like cattle.

TRy working for a black republican for congress, you get letters from the klan, other white democrats, and liberal blacks. These include death threats, words that would probably offend you, as well as other stuff.

bs. And a distorted view of reality. Dems didn't put blacks in ghettos. In the years after WWII, cities across the US saw an influx of African Americans into homogeneous white neighborhoods, which produced the phenomenon of "white flight"......whites fleeing to the suburbs. And, apparently, according to Amanda I. Seligman, in her book, "Block by Block- A study of Chicago's West Side Neighborhoods and Policies", the deterioration of the neighborhoods happened long before African Americans arrived, meaning they were already what could be construed as "white ghettos". After blacks moved in, they became "black ghettos". And, I have first hand knowledge of growing up on Chicago's West Side, and recollect, at the age of 5, that our landlord was a Jew, and that the relationship with him was "strained". And, perhaps, while working for black Republicans, if you chose your words more carefully, and didn't refer to blacks as "the n-word", you wouldn't get death threats.

 

[JoeB131]

[

Their views on abortion, religion and foreign policy (which is well noted). He was a protege at one point, but soon after became a staunch hard line Democrat for some time before defecting to the Republican party. It was at that time he departed with the ways of Goldwater altogether. Consequentially he never endorsed Reagan for president in either of those elections.

Goldwater was a Libertarian, and Reagan was a Conservative Republican. So you see, big differences.

Again, had a lot more to do with who they were running against.

Goldwater was running against a popular president in a time of unprecendented prosperity (before Republicans fucked it all up with their union-busting), one who had taken on the mantle of a martyred president. Goldwater advocated an aggressive foreign policy that people thought would get us killed. The Daisy Ad only had to run once, and everyone got it.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Id_r6pNsus]"Daisy Girl" Rare 1964 Lyndon Johnson Political Ad -aired only once- 9/7/64 - YouTube[/ame]

Now, you cite their view on religion... which I always find interesting. Jimmy Carter was a solid Christian, a guy who went to church regularly. Reagan paid lip service to religion, but the religous rubes voted for him anyway.

Because they're rubes. Hey, I'm sure they are going to get around to banning abortion any minute now.

Goldwater, to his credit, realized that the unholy alliance between the Religious Rubes and the GOP would be disasterous in the long run.

 

[JoeB131]

Just for the record I'm a registered Independent.

Can you name the modern day Democrats who defend, support, or in any way praise the Southern conservative wing of the Democratic Party as it existed in days of yore?

Can you list those people?

Trent Lott?

Was a Democrat before 1972.

Yes, he was. Until like most of the Racists, he figured out he was persona non-grata in the post-McGovern Democratic Party.

This is the point you seem to miss. A question was asked in the 1960's, and the Democrats got it right, the Republicans seem to still be struggling with it.

 

[TemplarKormac]

Let's be clear on this. Are you saying that I could be rightfully blamed for the sins of my father and grandfather?

If you advocated and defended them, you may as well be. You may very well be just as susceptible to committing those same sins. But this is also irrelevant. You cannot acknowledge your own history, carbine. Just give it up. How does any of this apply to my OP?

No more responses will be given forthwith. You can argue with someone else on philosophy.

Just for the record I'm a registered Independent.

Can you name the modern day Democrats who defend, support, or in any way praise the Southern conservative wing of the Democratic Party as it existed in days of yore?

Can you list those people?

The Democrats of Cuyahoga County in Ohio.

Cuyahoga County Democrats have quietly returned the party to its racist roots | Cleveland Challenger

Guess where the concept of "white guilt" came from?

Now instead of being racist (allegedly not to be) against black people, here they are being racist to white people.

If you aren't familiar with the studies done by Paul Sniderman, you may wish to familiarize yourself.

This argument is over.

 

[TemplarKormac]

Trent Lott?

Was a Democrat before 1972.

Yes, he was. Until like most of the Racists, he figured out he was persona non-grata in the post-McGovern Democratic Party.

This is the point you seem to miss. A question was asked in the 1960's, and the Democrats got it right, the Republicans seem to still be struggling with it.

What? Where do you get your history from? What question are you referring to? If I recall the question of race was answered most affirmatively by Republicans!

 

[JoeB131]

[

What? Where do you get your history from? What question are you referring to? If I recall the question of race was answered most affirmatively by Republicans!

Yes. Yes it has.

Their answer has been, "Let's get angry white people to vote for us by playing on their racial fears!"

 

[poet]

Being Gay is not the same as being Black....Most black people are against Gay marriage

That's a fucking lie and you with your "white privilege" on overload. How fucking dare you speak for any black person, let alone "most black people". Fuck you. You have no idea what you're talking about. And if you check the polls, most Americans support gay marriage: For First Time, Majority of Americans Favor Legal Gay Marriage

69 % of Democrats and 78 % of liberals and 65 % of moderates...the groups to which most blacks belong. Try talking about things which you know about and can back up.

You happen to be right about blacks, but the turn around is very recent. African-Americans, blue-collar workers do an about-face on gay marriage: poll ? MSNBC

You have not a cluse about most of the other stuff, including your own racism, Poet.

You still haven't identified who I'm racist against, JS. It couldn't be white people, as racists don't "hang out" with the objects of their hate. Do you see rednecks throwing back beers with blacks, while calling them the n-word, laughing and cajoling????? Of course not. Do you see blacks going to KKK rallies? Of course not. What you suggest is that either I'm such an Academy Award-winning actor, and have all my white friends "fooled" about my racism, or that they are all so incredibly "stupid and naive" not to realize it. Which is it, because it's "telling", on both accounts? And you can best bet that I talk about the racism and bigotry, here at USMB, to them, on Facebook, all the time, and they are most sympathetic and appalled, frankly. As I always say, not all white people are like you and your "ilk".

 

[poet]

Unimportant and deflective. The conservative segregationist racists in the white South through their Deep South electoral state votes 54 to 1 in five of six elections from 1968 to 1988.

Who were they, buckeye? Why, people like you. And black racists like Poet were happily digging into the Democratic Party.

I really don't know what to say about white people like you, J.S. . White racism is far more egregious and harmful than any black racism could ever be. Me, calling your asses out on your racism hardly constitutes any racism, on my part. You're just not used to being publicly embarrassed, and at the hands of a gay black liberal Democrat.

First racism is racism....its more serious than uttering a single word

Is this your sad attempt at defending your use of the n-word? Serious for whom? It would be very serious for you, saying it in the wrong place, to the wrong person......everyone knows that you are all talk and no balls. You would never say it "openly", in a crowd of black people, coward that you are.

 

[Lonestar_logic]

So your answer is "None". Then what is the point of this thread?

No, strom did, I dont have to demagogue an issue. The point of this thread, altough I'm not the OP......and if Im wrong, the OP can correct me, was to show that the democrat party was and still is the party of racism...

Now it's a very complicated and nuance view of modern racism.
Obviously overt racism is pretty much dead, and I think we all agree that's a good thing.

But when people say the southern strategy, it's an attempt by the left to nullify the republican ascendancy in the south.

Like many liberals in this thread I believed in it.....but then I moved to Tennessee in 1992 and didnt see any racists in the republican clubs, primaries and more recently tea party events.

But I did see a democrat governor, Well fed Ned, who started TennCare
I did see 2 democrat senators James Sasser and Harlan Mathews

For state offices, they were dominated by democrats... and the narrative was that republicans dominated tennesse and they didnt, not until the mid 90s did they consistantly elect statewide officers and 2000s until they got state reps.

Republicans attained an elected majority in the Senate in the 104th General Assembly for the first time since Reconstruction;

Williams was elected as speaker of the Tennessee House on January 13, 2009, in a surprising divergence from the Republican party's accepted plan for succession. Democrats, who had lost the majority in the House for the first time since 1969


The point is democrats dominated the southern states, the racist didnt switch parties, because they were

a) very few leaders switch, Stom is the biggest name, and noone will give any others
b)the racists kept voting for democrats....or the republicans would have swept everything...
c) the only tool they can use is presidential elections, but again the republicans won in huge landslids in 72, 80, 84, and 88
The democrats won the south in 68, 76 and split in 92 and 96
So the republican didnt really win a contested race in the south until 2000..

Now why did the south go republican....well look at the black vote, I was shocked to learn Nixon in 60 only got 39%, this is WITH RACISTS in the democrat party, so why would vote for that......it's the same reason they vote now for it.....government programs, which democrats make synonymous with minorities.....so it wasnt to scare off blacks....

the south went republican for two main reasons:
1) the south was getting better educated and wealthier
2) republicans were leaving the midwest and east because of taxes and unions...so both are intertwined.
My dad was a professor for Ohio State and became one for U. of Tenn. for those very reasons (and a nice pay increase!)

Ok now how are the democrat still racist, right?
Because they expect blacks to vote democrat or they are marginalized by being unauthentic, white, oreo, uncle tom, ect ect
Also becsaue they looke at black folks as needing training wheels like govt programs and affirmative action...
they put them in ghettos, you dont see many whites in ghettos, some in shitty trailer parks, but not really ghettos..herded like cattle.

TRy working for a black republican for congress, you get letters from the klan, other white democrats, and liberal blacks. These include death threats, words that would probably offend you, as well as other stuff.

bs. And a distorted view of reality. Dems didn't put blacks in ghettos. In the years after WWII, cities across the US saw an influx of African Americans into homogeneous white neighborhoods, which produced the phenomenon of "white flight"......whites fleeing to the suburbs. And, apparently, according to Amanda I. Seligman, in her book, "Block by Block- A study of Chicago's West Side Neighborhoods and Policies", the deterioration of the neighborhoods happened long before African Americans arrived, meaning they were already what could be construed as "white ghettos". After blacks moved in, they became "black ghettos". And, I have first hand knowledge of growing up on Chicago's West Side, and recollect, at the age of 5, that our landlord was a Jew, and that the relationship with him was "strained". And, perhaps, while working for black Republicans, if you chose your words more carefully, and didn't refer to blacks as "the n-word", you wouldn't get death threats.

Bull Conner....ever hear of him? He was a democrat. Educate yourself and look him up.