religion is just brainwashing

[zaangalewa]

Science is an opposite of religion". I corrected this mistake

And you were 100% wrong.

Beg your pardon, but ¿wrong?. If I would be wrong then the consequence would be that only people with a special spiritual belief - for example atheists - would be able to be scientists or philosophers.

Being desperate to somehow place your magical nonsense

You read nothing what I said here - you are just simple a black knight fighting in your own black night against another black knight: both knights exist only in your own dark thoughts. But how came this denial of reality into your brain? Do we call such processes normally not "brainwash"? You are the third or forth atheist here, who gives me the strong impression it are brainwashed brainwashers of atheism, who try to call Christians brainwashed, because they are not able to think on their own.

on the same shelf as actual knowledge, and being completely unable to elevate your magical nonsense above the status of magical nonsense, you are left with no choice but to attempt to drag evidence-based, empirical methods and knowledge down into the muck where your magical nonsense resides.

You said here nothing. The empirical method is only one method to see the world - to say this should be the only allowed method is also far from any reality. No one is for example able to think without intuition. Even physics itself is in a situation to have to try to find new ways how to prove theories without experiments. And although I never spoke about magic things here: What means "magic"? Do you remember the three holy kings of wisdom, the three magi (=wise men)? "Magic" is only another word for science and wisdom. But I agree that I'm sometimes with my own wisdom not far from the magic of my good old friend Catweazle and his magic toad Touchwood. But I am for example able to make light by pressing a button - that's a good magic too. We call it "the electric trick".

It won't work. It has never worked and will never work. So stop wasting your time.

I have the feeling to call Christian "idiots" or "magi" (=wise men=scientists) will not help you to step forward in direction ... what do you say is your direction?

 

[social philosopher]

It is a cult that is accepted by the masses.

This is why critical thinking is far more important then being an religious sheep.

Critical thinking is perhaps one of the most beneficial and efficacious tools we have to determine what is and what is not "real".

 

[zaangalewa]

All throughout history, people have been trying to appease the gods (or nature as I believe). Anything from sacrificial offerings to burning people who they thought were "possessed" by devils. All kinds of crazy things.

Yea - but it is as crazy what others did. I think in this context now about the so call "culture fight" of the Prussian state against all Catholics. A part of this antichristian political propaganda is for example still known under the expression "burning of witches". Still today the whole world believes Catholics had murdered millions of witches during the middle ages - what's totally wrong. In the middle ages for example the belief in witches was just simple called a superstition.

It's by the way possible to be "possessed" = to do things a person on its own normally never would do. A brain can be manipulated in many ways. Here lots of people try to manipulate brains or minds with their words. That's the theme here: "brainwash" vs "free mind". We can imagine also other forms of manipulations - with radiations for example - or drugs and alcohol or scents and so on. Also sins like greed for example or narcissus manipulate the brain or the free mind. Fjotolf Hansen, before June 2017 called Anders Behring-Breivik, was a mass-murderer on reason of narcissus. Or take the rabies virus as an example: It manipulates human beings to behave in a way which is perfect for the preservation of this virus. In case of a virus for example it makes even a big sense to burn a person - specially if this virus is very toxic and a society has not many ways to react. In Hamburg for example died once 97% of the population because of pestilence. The problem pestilence was by the way solved before the modern medicine was able to find the reasons and methods against pestilence. We are not always able to wait until we know everything about a problem.

 

[zaangalewa]

....all the Catholics I know, including my father's family, grew up Catholic
since they were babies, their parents took them to church and school where they were taught, from their earliest childhood--about Catholicism
...this is like brainwashing kids to believe in ''something''
..sure, they ask them if they want to ''renounce satan, follow jesus, etc--later!--but even this is ''forced'' on them
isn't this the way most religions are?

if I were born in Indonesia, chances are very, very great I would not be Catholic--but Islamic---

My mom was an avowed atheist and made no bones about it.

I'm a Southern Baptist.

So no, it's not brainwashing.

when you force your kids to learn a religion--that's brainwashing

No. Not to teach children is neglect. We "force" children always to learn a lot of essentials - and religions are a constant factor in all human societies since civilizations of human beings are existing. Yesterday for example I heard in TV the speech of a high clerics of Buddhism. Everything what he said was true, as far as I am able to know on my own. To help the nature is the most important task of all human beings of our time worldwide. But we are in a local responsibility. Others don't hear what we say. Nevertheless we are not able to wait. We have to take care for all life and to start now to go the right steps. No one should think he's not able to do something.
Sure some people do not like to hear what this man says. And others do not like to hear the idea to do something without the help of the leaders of economies or of Trumperica.
I decided by the way to accept that New York is the capital of the USA. But I doubt about whether Mr. president Trump was ever in his life the king of NY. Anyway we accept only one king of the world. And this king is not very big, although he is the greatest. Exist perhaps a distraction tactic of Mr. president Trump in context "Jerusalem"? What about the national parks of the USA? Is this now not a public theme any longer?

 

[zaangalewa]

... Wrong. If that were the case, then the same would be true of Christians 5p0 years ago, as they carried aroind the same book of bronze age fairy tales. Your morals arise chiefly from when and where you were born. In your case, it was after your religion experienced reformation by the secular ideas of scientific enlightenment amd classical liberalism.

Catholic Renaissance started in the 13th/14th century - core time 15th-16th century. Same with humanism.
Reformation was in the 14th -16th century (Wyclif, Hus, Luther)
The enlightenment was about 1650-1800.
Secularism started in England since 1535, in the holy empire after the reformation, in France with the revolution and was realized from Napoleon Bonaparte in whole Europe.

All this streams are part of the Christian identity of Europe and have not a lot to do with atheism. Sure existed atheists in this times of history too. Napoleon for example was an atheist. An important atheist was for example Voltaire too. But the values of the Christian religion are in all this streams present.

Typical for a state religion "Atheism" is on the other side communism - with a very strong enmity against all other beliefs. And the main philosopher of the Nazis was for example Nietzsche, "the atheist" par excellence. I'm sure the Nazis misunderstood Nietzsche - nevertheless they needed his atheism.

So I guess the merits of atheism are not so high as you prefer to think. The early Christians were by the way called "atheists" too, same with many Greek philosophers and lots of this Greek philosophers are also famous teachers of Christians (they were not really atheists, they were monotheists and not polytheists). The catholic church with Aristotle and Averroes (=Ibn Rush, a Muslim) are for example the root of all European, Anglo-American and African universities.

 

[harmonica]

....all the Catholics I know, including my father's family, grew up Catholic
since they were babies, their parents took them to church and school where they were taught, from their earliest childhood--about Catholicism
...this is like brainwashing kids to believe in ''something''
..sure, they ask them if they want to ''renounce satan, follow jesus, etc--later!--but even this is ''forced'' on them
isn't this the way most religions are?

if I were born in Indonesia, chances are very, very great I would not be Catholic--but Islamic---

My mom was an avowed atheist and made no bones about it.

I'm a Southern Baptist.

So no, it's not brainwashing.

when you force your kids to learn a religion--that's brainwashing

No. Not to teach children is neglect. We "force" children always to learn a lot of essentials - and religions are a constant factor in all human societies since civilizations of human beings are existing. Yesterday for example I heard in TV the speech of a high clerics of Buddhism. Everything what he said was true, as far as I am able to know on my own. To help the nature is the most important task of all human beings of our time worldwide. But we are in a local responsibility. Others don't hear what we say. Nevertheless we are not able to wait. We have to take care for all life and to start now to go the right steps. No one should think he's not able to do something.
Sure some people do not like to hear what this man says. And others do not like to hear the idea to do something without the help of the leaders of economies or of Trumperica.
I decided by the way to accept that New York is the capital of the USA. But I doubt about whether Mr. president Trump was ever in his life the king of NY. Anyway we accept only one king of the world. And this king is not very big, although he is the greatest. Exist perhaps a distraction tactic of Mr. president Trump in context "Jerusalem"? What about the national parks of the USA? Is this now not a public theme any longer?

thanks for the polite reply..some of these are haywire
religion is not an essential ....god came to earth, Mary a virgin, you will go to hell if you don't obey, you will go to heaven if you do, jesus performed miracles, --all these are not real and definitely not essential

if you teach them not to steal, not to kill, etc that is essential but not a religion

 

[harmonica]

... Wrong. If that were the case, then the same would be true of Christians 5p0 years ago, as they carried aroind the same book of bronze age fairy tales. Your morals arise chiefly from when and where you were born. In your case, it was after your religion experienced reformation by the secular ideas of scientific enlightenment amd classical liberalism.

Catholic Renaissance started in the 13th/14th century - core time 15th-16th century. Same with humanism.
Reformation was in the 14th -16th century (Wyclif, Hus, Luther)
The enlightenment was about 1650-1800.
Secularism started in England since 1535, in the holy empire after the reformation, in France with the revolution and was realized from Napoleon Bonaparte in whole Europe.

All this streams are part of the Christian identity of Europe and have not a lot to do with atheism. Sure existed atheists in this times of history too. Napoleon for example was an atheist. An important atheist was for example Voltaire too. But the values of the Christian religion are in all this streams present.

Typical for a state religion "Atheism" is on the other side communism - with a very strong enmity against all other beliefs. And the main philosopher of the Nazis was for example Nietzsche, "the atheist" par excellence. I'm sure the Nazis misunderstood Nietzsche - nevertheless they needed his atheism.

So I guess the merits of atheism are not so high as you prefer to think. The early Christians were by the way called "atheists" too, same with many Greek philosophers and lots of this Greek philosophers are also famous teachers of Christians (they were not really atheists, they were monotheists and not polytheists). The catholic church with Aristotle and Averroes (=Ibn Rush, a Muslim) are for example the root of all European, Anglo-American and African universities.

thanks for the reply
where do you get I think there are merits in anything?
atheist can be good, moral people also--and ''go to heaven''

 

[zaangalewa]

All religion must fucking die!!!

I want to crush the Catholic Church like a toad!
Adolf Hitler

 

[harmonica]

All religion must fucking die!!!

I want to crush the Catholic Church like a toad!
Adolf Hitler

there were and are a lot of people like hitler--they just don't have the opportunity to get the same power
Pol Pot, Idi Amin, Jim Jones, David Koresh, etc

 

[koshergrl]

....all the Catholics I know, including my father's family, grew up Catholic
since they were babies, their parents took them to church and school where they were taught, from their earliest childhood--about Catholicism
...this is like brainwashing kids to believe in ''something''
..sure, they ask them if they want to ''renounce satan, follow jesus, etc--later!--but even this is ''forced'' on them
isn't this the way most religions are?

if I were born in Indonesia, chances are very, very great I would not be Catholic--but Islamic---

My mom was an avowed atheist and made no bones about it.

I'm a Southern Baptist.

So no, it's not brainwashing.

when you force your kids to learn a religion--that's brainwashing

No. Not to teach children is neglect. We "force" children always to learn a lot of essentials - and religions are a constant factor in all human societies since civilizations of human beings are existing. Yesterday for example I heard in TV the speech of a high clerics of Buddhism. Everything what he said was true, as far as I am able to know on my own. To help the nature is the most important task of all human beings of our time worldwide. But we are in a local responsibility. Others don't hear what we say. Nevertheless we are not able to wait. We have to take care for all life and to start now to go the right steps. No one should think he's not able to do something.
Sure some people do not like to hear what this man says. And others do not like to hear the idea to do something without the help of the leaders of economies or of Trumperica.
I decided by the way to accept that New York is the capital of the USA. But I doubt about whether Mr. president Trump was ever in his life the king of NY. Anyway we accept only one king of the world. And this king is not very big, although he is the greatest. Exist perhaps a distraction tactic of Mr. president Trump in context "Jerusalem"? What about the national parks of the USA? Is this now not a public theme any longer?

thanks for the polite reply..some of these are haywire
religion is not an essential ....god came to earth, Mary a virgin, you will go to hell if you don't obey, you will go to heaven if you do, jesus performed miracles, --all these are not real and definitely not essential

if you teach them not to steal, not to kill, etc that is essential but not a religion

Thank you for repeating the viewpoint SATAN wants you to promote.

Of course, Satan himself recognizes the existence of a holy and miraculous God. And is highly motivated to trick people into rejecting Him. That's where you come in, dupe!

Meanwhile, those of us who are saved savor our religion and the company of likewise enlightened people.

But for people like you..here you go:

Official Church of Satan Website | churchofsatan.com

 

[koshergrl]

All religion must fucking die!!!

I want to crush the Catholic Church like a toad!
Adolf Hitler

there were and are a lot of people like hitler--they just don't have the opportunity to get the same power
Pol Pot, Idi Amin, Jim Jones, David Koresh, etc

Well the two who killed the most people didn't believe in God and also shared the viewpoint that religion was *brainwashing*.

Also, religion establishes right and wrong and anybody who follows God recognizes the fact that homicidal despots should not be kowtowed to.

 

[Votto]

....all the Catholics I know, including my father's family, grew up Catholic
since they were babies, their parents took them to church and school where they were taught, from their earliest childhood--about Catholicism
...this is like brainwashing kids to believe in ''something''
..sure, they ask them if they want to ''renounce satan, follow jesus, etc--later!--but even this is ''forced'' on them
isn't this the way most religions are?

if I were born in Indonesia, chances are very, very great I would not be Catholic--but Islamic---

This is an outrage. Forced to renounce Satan?

They should be taught in school that they can worship him instead.

 

[koshergrl]

Satan’s Ten Strategies Against You | Desiring God

 

[koshergrl]

"10. Satan accuses Christians before God.
Revelation 12:10 says, “I heard a loud voice in heaven saying, ‘Now the salvation and the power and the kingdom of our God and the authority of his Christ have come, for the accuser of our brothers has been thrown down, who accuses them day and night before our God.’” Satan’s defeat is sure. But his accusations haven’t ceased.

It is the same with us as it was with Job. Satan says to God about us, They don’t really love you; they love your benefits. “Stretch out your hand and touch all that [they have], and [they] will curse you to your face” (Job 1:11). Their faith isn’t real. Satan accuses us before God, as he did Job. But it is a glorious thing that followers of Jesus have an advocate who “always lives to make intercession for them” (Hebrews 7:25)."
Satan’s Ten Strategies Against You | Desiring God

 

[harmonica]

....all the Catholics I know, including my father's family, grew up Catholic
since they were babies, their parents took them to church and school where they were taught, from their earliest childhood--about Catholicism
...this is like brainwashing kids to believe in ''something''
..sure, they ask them if they want to ''renounce satan, follow jesus, etc--later!--but even this is ''forced'' on them
isn't this the way most religions are?

if I were born in Indonesia, chances are very, very great I would not be Catholic--but Islamic---

This is an outrage. Forced to renounce Satan?

They should be taught in school that they can worship him instead.

that's just it..satan is make believe
you better do what we tell you==or you go to hell

 

[RWNJ]

....all the Catholics I know, including my father's family, grew up Catholic
since they were babies, their parents took them to church and school where they were taught, from their earliest childhood--about Catholicism
...this is like brainwashing kids to believe in ''something''
..sure, they ask them if they want to ''renounce satan, follow jesus, etc--later!--but even this is ''forced'' on them
isn't this the way most religions are?

if I were born in Indonesia, chances are very, very great I would not be Catholic--but Islamic---

This is an outrage. Forced to renounce Satan?

They should be taught in school that they can worship him instead.

that's just it..satan is make believe
you better do what we tell you==or you go to hell

You're in for a rude awakening. Your unbelief does not change reality.

 

[koshergrl]

....all the Catholics I know, including my father's family, grew up Catholic
since they were babies, their parents took them to church and school where they were taught, from their earliest childhood--about Catholicism
...this is like brainwashing kids to believe in ''something''
..sure, they ask them if they want to ''renounce satan, follow jesus, etc--later!--but even this is ''forced'' on them
isn't this the way most religions are?

if I were born in Indonesia, chances are very, very great I would not be Catholic--but Islamic---

This is an outrage. Forced to renounce Satan?

They should be taught in school that they can worship him instead.

that's just it..satan is make believe
you better do what we tell you==or you go to hell

That's exactly what the Satanists say.

Of course they're lying. Just as you are.

"1. Satan lies, and is the father of lies.
“When he lies, he speaks according to his own nature, for he is a liar and the father of lies” (John 8:44). The first time Satan appears in the Bible in Genesis 3, the first words on his lips are suspicious of the truth (“Did God say, You shall not eat of any tree in the garden?”). And the second words on his lips were a subtle falsehood (“You will not die”). John says that Satan “has nothing to do with the truth, because there is no truth in him” (John 8:44). We are dealing with the essence of falsehood and deception."

"5. Satan tempts people to sin.
"This is what he did unsuccessfully to Jesus in the wilderness — he wanted him to abandon the path of suffering and obedience (Matthew 4:1–11). This is what he did successfully to Judas in the last hours of Jesus’s life (Luke 22:3–6). And in 2 Corinthians 11:3, Paul warns against this for all the believers: “I am afraid that as the serpent deceived Eve by his cunning, your thoughts will be led astray from a sincere and pure devotion to Christ.”

"You either triumph “by the blood of the Lamb and the word of your testimony,” or you will be enslaved by Satan."

Satan’s Ten Strategies Against You | Desiring God

 

[harmonica]

....all the Catholics I know, including my father's family, grew up Catholic
since they were babies, their parents took them to church and school where they were taught, from their earliest childhood--about Catholicism
...this is like brainwashing kids to believe in ''something''
..sure, they ask them if they want to ''renounce satan, follow jesus, etc--later!--but even this is ''forced'' on them
isn't this the way most religions are?

if I were born in Indonesia, chances are very, very great I would not be Catholic--but Islamic---

This is an outrage. Forced to renounce Satan?

They should be taught in school that they can worship him instead.

that's just it..satan is make believe
you better do what we tell you==or you go to hell

You're in for a rude awakening. Your unbelief does not change reality.

sure--what awakening would that be?
reality is there is no sky fairy
a virgin cannot give birth to a god
man/jesus did not rise from the dead

 

[Meriweather]

sure--what awakening would that be?
reality is there is no sky fairy
a virgin cannot give birth to a god
man/jesus did not rise from the dead

What is with the euphemisms? Why not say directly:

Reality is there is no God.
A virgin cannot give birth to a child.
Jesus did not rise from the dead.

Degenerating into immaturity has to be frustrating.

 

[harmonica]

sure--what awakening would that be?
reality is there is no sky fairy
a virgin cannot give birth to a god
man/jesus did not rise from the dead

What is with the euphemisms? Why not say directly:

Reality is there is no God.
A virgin cannot give birth to a child.
Jesus did not rise from the dead.

Degenerating into immaturity has to be frustrating.

hahahhahahahha--good one
bible says jesus born without male involvement = falsehood/fake/myth
holy ghost!! there are no ghosts