Zone1 Religion is not needed if a "golden rule" is valued

[ViewFromAbove]

But I do. In fact you are the one arguing against scientific claims based upon evidence. What do you think red shift and CMB are if not evidence?

There is NO scientific claim, hypothesis, or theory that can research religious validity related to a "God". Get real !!

 

[ViewFromAbove]

It takes more faith to believe that everything came from nothing for no reason, in violation of the laws of physics man has carefully, over centuries, developed.

Like Ding, you obviously do not understand Physics research methods, nor the philosophy of Physics itself.

 

[ding]

"Predestined" is your loaded word. It's as useful to say that BILLIONS of galaxies & BILLIONS of their stars & planets were "predestined".
Means nothing that is intelligent.

The structure of matter itself says otherwise. There are an infinite number of combinations of subatomic particle size, distance and charge which could have created a universe in the exact same way yet they would be devoid of life. There is only one combination of size, distance and charge that can produce life, and it's this one. It's this improbability - along with a few other ones - that prove the existence of life and intelligence wasn't an accident. That this universe was created intentionally for the express purpose of producing beings that know and create. And thus the universe became self aware. The potential for which existed before space and time itself.

 

[ding]

There is NO scientific claim, hypothesis, or theory that can research religious validity related to a "God". Get real !!

God can be inferred through his creation in much the same way that I could infer things about you from one of your own creations. Therefore everything which exists can be studied using scientific principles. We can examine everything up to the point of creation. From there we can infer and deduce conditions which must have existed using logic and reason. So if you are trying to argue that we have no means available to understand the first cause, you would be wrong. We have tons of tools and evidence at our disposal.

 

[ding]

Like Ding, you obviously do not understand Physics research methods, nor the philosophy of Physics itself.

Really? Can you explain how the universe began using your own words from off the top of your head? I can. So what makes you believe you know more about physics, research methods and philosophy than I do? Of course I'm not really sure why you think research methods are relevant to this discussion.

 

[BreezeWood]

Objectively, that is horseshit. You want me to give up the secret of my success? Why would I? What have you accomplished that would make me want to join you?

* christianity is a secret - how they, christians are so amazing for knowing all the hardships in life to then find salvation as the christian bible ... and their now successful life. and just happen too, to be the pillars of society.

... who would deny them their success.

 

[Woodznutz]

My point is that one does not need religious folklore to understand and practice "the Golden Rule" or similar variations.

Actually, some formal knowledge is necessary.

 

[toobfreak]

Religious folklore

Ah yes, China was a myth until we actually went there, just as those who have never been inspired by nor had a spiritual insight nor experience always try to rationalize their own shortcomings as someone's else's "folklore."

 

[Blues Man]

Really, all one can do is speak for oneself, so here I go:

I once meditated, albeit not long, on what kind of person I would be if I had not had the Catholic influence in my early life (and later studied Catholicism rather in depth and read many books about it...).

I am being totally honest when I say this:

I didn't like the way that person looked to me. That person would likely be very lawless, selfish, materialistic. Noi, scratch the "very likely." I WOULD be all those things and probably worse.

I am some of those things today, sporadically... in bad moments of my life, but for the most part, I am not those things

Too bad you fell for the bullshit that you are incapable of being a rational human being and controlling your own actions without the threat of divine punishment.

Why would you think you would turn into a serial killer, rapist, pedophile and a thief if you didn't belong to the Catholic Church?

 

[Blues Man]

Actually, some formal knowledge is necessary.

Not really since the Golden Rule was not invented by any religion and was based in humanistic thought

 

[Blues Man]

Ah yes, China was a myth until we actually went there, just as those who have never been inspired by nor had a spiritual insight nor experience always try to rationalize their own shortcomings as someone's else's "folklore."

Why do you equate spiritual insight with a religion?

And we have left most of that Iron Age morality of the Bible behind.

We don't stone people to death, we don't condone slavery we don't sell our daughters off into marriage as soon as they enter puberty.

 

[hadit]

Like Ding, you obviously do not understand Physics research methods, nor the philosophy of Physics itself.

Okay, so you tell us how everything spontaneously came from nothing, and where we can see this phenomenon happening today. Science is all about repeatability, after all.

 

[hadit]

Why do you equate spiritual insight with a religion?

And we have left most of that Iron Age morality of the Bible behind.

We don't stone people to death, we don't condone slavery we don't sell our daughters off into marriage as soon as they enter puberty.

Yeah, we pretty much left that behind after Yeshua came on the scene and brought a new Covenant.

 

[hadit]

My point is that one does not need religious folklore to understand and practice "the Golden Rule" or similar variations.

Yet, without such there is no incentive to be anything but pathologically selfish, NOT selfless.

 

[Blues Man]

Yeah, we pretty much left that behind after Yeshua came on the scene and brought a new Covenant.

It ain't new anymore is it?

And have you ever wondered why the god of the Old Testament so radically changed his tune?

 

[hadit]

It ain't new anymore is it?

And have you ever wondered why the god of the Old Testament so radically changed his tune?

He didn't.

 

[Woodznutz]

Not really since the Golden Rule was not invented by any religion and was based in humanistic thought

It's nothing more than a platitude these days. Also, an irony. "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you." I prefer to be left alone, therefore I leave others alone. Of course, religionists climb all over this in the belief that you must always be meddling in your neighbor's business.

The other, more accurate, iteration is "you shall love your neighbor as yourself". Sadly, and ironically as well, few demonstrate love for themselves, making loving others nearly impossible.

 

[Blues Man]

He didn't.

Of course he did he went from killing everyone to all love and forgiveness

 

[Blues Man]

It's nothing more than a platitude these days. Also, an irony. "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you." I prefer to be left alone, therefore I leave others alone. Of course, religionists climb all over this in the belief that you must always be meddling in your neighbor's business.

The other, more accurate, iteration is "you shall love your neighbor as yourself". Sadly, and ironically as well, few demonstrate love for themselves, making loving others nearly impossible.

Any god that needs to command people to love it or threaten them with destruction if they don't isn't a god that I want to be affiliated with

 

[hadit]

Of course he did he went from killing everyone to all love and forgiveness

The love and forgiveness was always there, along with nearly infinite patience. Only when man became seriously mired in sin did He bring judgement, and He'll do it again. And, of course, there will be the usual suspects whining and wailing that it isn't fair, despite ignoring a life time of warnings.