Religious Tolerance: Church kicks whole family out for supporting their gay daughter

[Seawytch]

Again, what law or laws has this church broken?

They church made a choice and the people that attended made the choice.

The religion taught in that church, no longer fits the parishioners that went there and they agreed to separate.

No laws or rights on either side were infringed upon?

So why is this a big deal?

Nope, but that was never in contention. Their douchenozzlery is perfectly legal and should be. It's not illegal to call them out for their doucheness either.

 

[LittleNipper]

I do not think that homosexual adoption has been happening formally for very long . There is no way to gauge if a child has been harmed in one way or another unless one actually asks what the child believes as he/she matures and grows to become a parent. However, it is clear that what one thinks is okay another may see in a totally different light. Please see the following: LifeSiteNews Mobile | Model gay adoptive ?fathers? sexually abused 6-year-old for years: offered him to pedophile ring

Gays have been adopting for decades...and we've been having our own children much longer than that.

Do you really want to go there? Do you not think I can find HUNDREDS of articles about how horrible straight children have been and are to children, especially foster children?

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FSQQK2Vuf9Q"]Our Kids are fine[/ame]

A homosexual COUPLE cannot have their own children. The child is either of one homosexual and a surrogate or the other. The child cannot be the offspring of both. And I believe "married" couples (meaning a husband & wife) are not at the top of the list of child molesters. And the video is nice; however, again ------ did this young man's mother raise him to be a homosexual ? Or did indeed this man's mother want something better for her child than she had? We cannot play both sides. The young man has a biological father. He in fact is being raised by two women. Had there been no sperm, this young man would not exist. So, in fact this man is not the end product of two women, but a woman and a man. And he has been influenced to believe that homosexual couples are equal morally, spiritually, and biologically to a married husband and wife. The fact is that until he is married to a wife and raises his own family and remains undivorced, we don't know what else has been influenced.

 

[Seawytch]

I do not think that homosexual adoption has been happening formally for very long . There is no way to gauge if a child has been harmed in one way or another unless one actually asks what the child believes as he/she matures and grows to become a parent. However, it is clear that what one thinks is okay another may see in a totally different light. Please see the following: LifeSiteNews Mobile | Model gay adoptive ?fathers? sexually abused 6-year-old for years: offered him to pedophile ring

Gays have been adopting for decades...and we've been having our own children much longer than that.

Do you really want to go there? Do you not think I can find HUNDREDS of articles about how horrible straight children have been and are to children, especially foster children?

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FSQQK2Vuf9Q"]Our Kids are fine[/ame]

A homosexual COUPLE cannot have their own children. The child is either of one homosexual and a surrogate or the other. The child cannot be the offspring of both. And I believe "married" couples (meaning a husband & wife) are not at the top of the list of child molesters.

Lots of couples can't have "their own" children and yet manage, through adoption, AI or invitro to do just that. Our children are OUR children, emotionally and legally.

Most molestations happen to girls by male members of their families so fuck you.

 

[LittleNipper]

Ephesians 5:25 ►






Parallel Verses

New International Version
Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her

New Living Translation
For husbands, this means love your wives, just as Christ loved the church. He gave up his life for her

English Standard Version
Husbands, love your wives, as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her,

New American Standard Bible
Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ also loved the church and gave Himself up for her,

King James Bible
Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;

Holman Christian Standard Bible
Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave Himself for her

International Standard Version
Husbands, love your wives as the Messiah loved the church and gave himself for it,

NET Bible
Husbands, love your wives just as Christ loved the church and gave himself for her

Aramaic Bible in Plain English
Husbands, love your wives, as The Messiah also loves his church and gave himself up for her sake,

GOD'S WORD® Translation
Husbands, love your wives as Christ loved the church and gave his life for it.

Jubilee Bible 2000
Husbands, love your wives even as the Christ also loved the congregation {Gr. ekklesia � called out ones} and gave himself for her,

King James 2000 Bible
Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;

American King James Version
Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;

American Standard Version
Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself up for it;

Douay-Rheims Bible
Husbands, love your wives, as Christ also loved the church, and delivered himself up for it:

Darby Bible Translation
Husbands, love your own wives, even as the Christ also loved the assembly, and has delivered himself up for it,

English Revised Version
Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself up for it;

Webster's Bible Translation
Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;

Weymouth New Testament
Married men, love your wives, as Christ also loved the Church and gave Himself up to death for her;

World English Bible
Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the assembly, and gave himself up for it;

Young's Literal Translation
The husbands! love your own wives, as also the Christ did love the assembly, and did give himself for it,

Parallel Commentaries
Matthew Henry's Concise Commentary

5:22-33 The duty of wives is, submission to their husbands in the Lord, which includes honouring and obeying them, from a principle of love to them. The duty of husbands is to love their wives. The love of Christ to the church is an example, which is sincere, pure, and constant, notwithstanding her failures. Christ gave himself for the church, that he might sanctify it in this world, and glorify it in the next, that he might bestow on all his members a principle of holiness, and deliver them from the guilt, the pollution, and the dominion of sin, by those influences of the Holy Spirit, of which baptismal water was the outward sign. The church and believers will not be without spot or wrinkle till they come to glory. But those only who are sanctified now, shall be glorified hereafter. The words of Adam, mentioned by the apostle, are spoken literally of marriage; but they have also a hidden sense in them, relating to the union between Christ and his church. It was a kind of type, as having resemblance. There will be failures and defects on both sides, in the present state of human nature, yet this does not alter the relation. All the duties of marriage are included in unity and love. And while we adore and rejoice in the condescending love of Christ, let husbands and wives learn hence their duties to each other. Thus the worst evils would be prevented, and many painful effects would be avoided.

Pulpit Commentary

Verse 25. - Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the Church, and gave himself for her. The husband's duty to the wife is enforced by another parallel - it ought to correspond to Christ's love for the Church. This parallel restores the balance; if it should seem hard for the wife to be in subjection, the spirit of love, Christ-like love, on the part of the husband makes the duty easy. Christ did not merely pity the Church, or merely desire her good, but loved her; her image was stamped on his heart and her name graven on his hands; he desired to have her for his companion, longing for a return of her affection, for the establishment of sympathy between her and him. And he gave himself for her (comp. ver. 2), showing that her happiness and welfare were dearer to him than his own - the true test of deep, real love.

Gill's Exposition of the Entire Bible

Husbands, love your wives,.... Which consists in a strong and cordial affection for them; in a real delight and pleasure in them; in showing respect, and doing honour to them; in seeking their contentment, satisfaction, and pleasure; in a quiet, constant, and comfortable dwelling with them; in providing all things necessary for them; in protecting them from all injuries and abuses; in concealing their faults, and covering their infirmities; in entertaining the best opinion of their persons and actions; and in endeavouring to promote their spiritual good and welfare: this love ought to be hearty and sincere, and not feigned and selfish; it should be shown in private, as well as in public: it should be chaste and single, constant and perpetual; it should exceed that which is bore to neighbours, or even to parents, and should be equal to that a man bears to himself; though not so as to hinder, and break in upon love to God and Christ: many are the reasons why husbands should love their wives; they are given to be helps unto them; they are companions of them; they are wives of covenant; they are their own wives, yea, their own bodies, their own flesh, nay, as themselves; they are their image and their glory; and especially the example of Christ, in his love to his church and people, should engage to it:

even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it: See Gill on Ephesians 5:2; the Syriac and Ethiopic versions read, "his own church"; his bride and spouse, whom he betrothed to himself from all eternity, the Father having given her to him; and is no other than the church of the firstborn, whose names are written in heaven, even all the elect of God.

Jamieson-Fausset-Brown Bible Commentary

25. "Thou hast seen the measure of obedience; now hear also the measure of love. Do you wish your wife to obey you, as the Church is to obey Christ? Then have a solicitude for her as Christ had for the Church (Eph 5:23, "Himself the Saviour of the body"); and "if it be necessary to give thy life for her, or to be cut in ten thousand pieces, or to endure any other suffering whatever, do not refuse it; and if you suffer thus, not even so do you do what Christ has done; for you indeed do so being already united to her, but He did so for one that treated Him with aversion and hatred. As, therefore, He brought to His feet one that so treated Him, and that even wantonly spurned Him, by much tenderness of regard, not by threats, insults, and terror: so also do you act towards your wife, and though you see her disdainful and wantonly wayward, you will be able to bring her to your feet by much thoughtfulness for her, by love, by kindness. For no bound is more sovereign in binding than such bonds, especially in the case of husband and wife. For one may constrain a servant by fear, though not even he is so to be bound to you; for he may readily run away. But the companion of your life, the mother of your children, the basis of all your joy, you ought to bind to you, not by fear and threats, but by love and attachment" [Chrysostom].

gave himself—Greek, "gave Himself up."

for it—Translate, "for her." The relation of the Church to Christ is the ground of Christianity's having raised woman to her due place in the social scale, from which she was, and is, excluded in heathen lands.

Ephesians 5:25


Context

Wives and Husbands
…24But as the church is subject to Christ, so also the wives ought to be to their husbands in everything. 25Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ also loved the church and gave Himself up for her, 26so that He might sanctify her, having cleansed her by the washing of water with the word,…

None of that changes what the bible has been used to justify, but thanks for playing.

Evolution has been used to justify euthanasia and genocide ---- but that doesn't stop it from being taught in school or accepted by some as "fact."

 

[Quantum Windbag]

And yet your post shows an appalling lack of them.

Do you define an appalling lack as me shoving numerous examples down your throat and you pretending you didn't say what you said?

No, you have not provided a single case of a Christian being denied the right to practice his faith. You provided a couple that had to do with Public Accommodation...which the SCOTUS has upheld. They have also upheld the right to associate for groups like the BSA.

Churches won't be forced to marry the gays no matter how often you lie about it.

Telling a Christian that objects to attending a same sex marraige because it violates their faith that they have to go is not telling them that they cannot practice their faith. You would have fit right in with the Romans who told Christians that all they had to do was pretend to burn the incense to Caesar because they could pray to whoever they wanted while they were doing it.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

For thousands of years, the bible was used to justify slavery, wife-beating, condemning "witches" to death, denying women the vote, or even any position of power; it was used to justify wars, genocide, segregation, child abuse and the divine right of kings. I could go on and on.
The bible is also used to justify the bigotry against homosexuals.

Time moves on and but some folks will always use that book to deny rights to others.

Always was. Always will be. Eventually, enough people see how ridiculous it is, and things change.

The Bible doesn't condone wife beating. Fornicators and pimps do. Christian virture ended slavery and not liberalism nor atheism. And more Christians died at the hands of those who wanted to control Christianity then died for sorcery. Homosexuality is a sin. The same as murder, rape, stealing, fornication, adultery, hate, slander, gossip, idolatry, gluttony. And yet the real bigot would insist that his own indulgences are not as evil as those committed by others and even worthy of social approval....

And still the bible was used to justify slavery and more...

Defenders of slavery noted that in the Bible, Abraham had slaves. They point to the Ten Commandments, noting that "Thou shalt not covet thy neighbor's house, ... nor his manservant, nor his maidservant." In the New Testament, Paul returned a runaway slave, Philemon, to his master, and, although slavery was widespread throughout the Roman world, Jesus never spoke out against it.

The Southern Argument for Slavery

For example, in 1832 Thomas Dew of Virginia argued that many of the patriarchs of the Old Testament, God's chosen people, owned slaves. God's covenant with Abraham was an agreement with a slaveowner. God even rewarded him by giving him more slaves.

Among the many Bible passages cited by Dew was this one from Leviticus 25:44-46: "Both thy bondmen, and thy bondmaids, which thou shalt have, shall be of the heathen that are round about you; of them shall ye buy bondmen and bondmaids. Moreover of the children of the strangers that do sojourn among you, of them shall ye buy, and of their families that are with you, which they begat in your land: and they shall be your possession. And ye shall take them as an inheritance for your children after you, to inherit them for a possession; they shall be your bondmen for ever."

The Bible was once used to justify slavery, too

Jesus wants you to beat your wife? The dangers of ‘Christian Domestic Discipline’

From the Christian Domestic Discipline website...

When administering physical discipline, take caution not to deliver the lashes anywhere but the buttocks. The first attempt at this punishment should only be delivered by hand so you can get an idea of how many lashings are needed. The best position will be for you to sit at the end of a bed or on a chair (with no arms) and have her lay across your lap. She can also bend over a bed with arms tucked under her chest and your left hand on the small of her back. If a strap (belt) is to be implemented watch that each stoke falls directly on the buttocks and not higher. EDITOR'S NOTE: When using the hand, or a small, short implement, such as a switch or small "hairbrush"-type paddle, over-the-knee positioning can work quite well.

Opponents of slavery cited the Bible also, and did so much more effectively since the slavery that you are talking about in the Bible was temporary, not cradle to grave. But, by all means, keep ignoring half the truth if it makes it easier for you to hate.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Ephesians 5:25 ►






Parallel Verses

New International Version
Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her

New Living Translation
For husbands, this means love your wives, just as Christ loved the church. He gave up his life for her

English Standard Version
Husbands, love your wives, as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her,

New American Standard Bible
Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ also loved the church and gave Himself up for her,

King James Bible
Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;

Holman Christian Standard Bible
Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave Himself for her

International Standard Version
Husbands, love your wives as the Messiah loved the church and gave himself for it,

NET Bible
Husbands, love your wives just as Christ loved the church and gave himself for her

Aramaic Bible in Plain English
Husbands, love your wives, as The Messiah also loves his church and gave himself up for her sake,

GOD'S WORD® Translation
Husbands, love your wives as Christ loved the church and gave his life for it.

Jubilee Bible 2000
Husbands, love your wives even as the Christ also loved the congregation {Gr. ekklesia � called out ones} and gave himself for her,

King James 2000 Bible
Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;

American King James Version
Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;

American Standard Version
Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself up for it;

Douay-Rheims Bible
Husbands, love your wives, as Christ also loved the church, and delivered himself up for it:

Darby Bible Translation
Husbands, love your own wives, even as the Christ also loved the assembly, and has delivered himself up for it,

English Revised Version
Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself up for it;

Webster's Bible Translation
Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;

Weymouth New Testament
Married men, love your wives, as Christ also loved the Church and gave Himself up to death for her;

World English Bible
Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the assembly, and gave himself up for it;

Young's Literal Translation
The husbands! love your own wives, as also the Christ did love the assembly, and did give himself for it,

Parallel Commentaries
Matthew Henry's Concise Commentary

5:22-33 The duty of wives is, submission to their husbands in the Lord, which includes honouring and obeying them, from a principle of love to them. The duty of husbands is to love their wives. The love of Christ to the church is an example, which is sincere, pure, and constant, notwithstanding her failures. Christ gave himself for the church, that he might sanctify it in this world, and glorify it in the next, that he might bestow on all his members a principle of holiness, and deliver them from the guilt, the pollution, and the dominion of sin, by those influences of the Holy Spirit, of which baptismal water was the outward sign. The church and believers will not be without spot or wrinkle till they come to glory. But those only who are sanctified now, shall be glorified hereafter. The words of Adam, mentioned by the apostle, are spoken literally of marriage; but they have also a hidden sense in them, relating to the union between Christ and his church. It was a kind of type, as having resemblance. There will be failures and defects on both sides, in the present state of human nature, yet this does not alter the relation. All the duties of marriage are included in unity and love. And while we adore and rejoice in the condescending love of Christ, let husbands and wives learn hence their duties to each other. Thus the worst evils would be prevented, and many painful effects would be avoided.

Pulpit Commentary

Verse 25. - Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the Church, and gave himself for her. The husband's duty to the wife is enforced by another parallel - it ought to correspond to Christ's love for the Church. This parallel restores the balance; if it should seem hard for the wife to be in subjection, the spirit of love, Christ-like love, on the part of the husband makes the duty easy. Christ did not merely pity the Church, or merely desire her good, but loved her; her image was stamped on his heart and her name graven on his hands; he desired to have her for his companion, longing for a return of her affection, for the establishment of sympathy between her and him. And he gave himself for her (comp. ver. 2), showing that her happiness and welfare were dearer to him than his own - the true test of deep, real love.

Gill's Exposition of the Entire Bible

Husbands, love your wives,.... Which consists in a strong and cordial affection for them; in a real delight and pleasure in them; in showing respect, and doing honour to them; in seeking their contentment, satisfaction, and pleasure; in a quiet, constant, and comfortable dwelling with them; in providing all things necessary for them; in protecting them from all injuries and abuses; in concealing their faults, and covering their infirmities; in entertaining the best opinion of their persons and actions; and in endeavouring to promote their spiritual good and welfare: this love ought to be hearty and sincere, and not feigned and selfish; it should be shown in private, as well as in public: it should be chaste and single, constant and perpetual; it should exceed that which is bore to neighbours, or even to parents, and should be equal to that a man bears to himself; though not so as to hinder, and break in upon love to God and Christ: many are the reasons why husbands should love their wives; they are given to be helps unto them; they are companions of them; they are wives of covenant; they are their own wives, yea, their own bodies, their own flesh, nay, as themselves; they are their image and their glory; and especially the example of Christ, in his love to his church and people, should engage to it:

even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it: See Gill on Ephesians 5:2; the Syriac and Ethiopic versions read, "his own church"; his bride and spouse, whom he betrothed to himself from all eternity, the Father having given her to him; and is no other than the church of the firstborn, whose names are written in heaven, even all the elect of God.

Jamieson-Fausset-Brown Bible Commentary

25. "Thou hast seen the measure of obedience; now hear also the measure of love. Do you wish your wife to obey you, as the Church is to obey Christ? Then have a solicitude for her as Christ had for the Church (Eph 5:23, "Himself the Saviour of the body"); and "if it be necessary to give thy life for her, or to be cut in ten thousand pieces, or to endure any other suffering whatever, do not refuse it; and if you suffer thus, not even so do you do what Christ has done; for you indeed do so being already united to her, but He did so for one that treated Him with aversion and hatred. As, therefore, He brought to His feet one that so treated Him, and that even wantonly spurned Him, by much tenderness of regard, not by threats, insults, and terror: so also do you act towards your wife, and though you see her disdainful and wantonly wayward, you will be able to bring her to your feet by much thoughtfulness for her, by love, by kindness. For no bound is more sovereign in binding than such bonds, especially in the case of husband and wife. For one may constrain a servant by fear, though not even he is so to be bound to you; for he may readily run away. But the companion of your life, the mother of your children, the basis of all your joy, you ought to bind to you, not by fear and threats, but by love and attachment" [Chrysostom].

gave himself—Greek, "gave Himself up."

for it—Translate, "for her." The relation of the Church to Christ is the ground of Christianity's having raised woman to her due place in the social scale, from which she was, and is, excluded in heathen lands.

Ephesians 5:25


Context

Wives and Husbands
…24But as the church is subject to Christ, so also the wives ought to be to their husbands in everything. 25Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ also loved the church and gave Himself up for her, 26so that He might sanctify her, having cleansed her by the washing of water with the word,…

None of that changes what the bible has been used to justify, but thanks for playing.

Do yourself a favor, stop using the Bible to justify your hatred. I know it orders of magnitude better than you do, understand history a lot better, and can easily cause you to start saying something that is totally different than your original position as you are forced to clarify it. I already demonstrated that with your idiotic argument that churches cannot be sued.

 

[LittleNipper]

The Bible doesn't condone wife beating. Fornicators and pimps do. Christian virture ended slavery and not liberalism nor atheism. And more Christians died at the hands of those who wanted to control Christianity then died for sorcery. Homosexuality is a sin. The same as murder, rape, stealing, fornication, adultery, hate, slander, gossip, idolatry, gluttony. And yet the real bigot would insist that his own indulgences are not as evil as those committed by others and even worthy of social approval....

And still the bible was used to justify slavery and more...

Defenders of slavery noted that in the Bible, Abraham had slaves. They point to the Ten Commandments, noting that "Thou shalt not covet thy neighbor's house, ... nor his manservant, nor his maidservant." In the New Testament, Paul returned a runaway slave, Philemon, to his master, and, although slavery was widespread throughout the Roman world, Jesus never spoke out against it.

The Southern Argument for Slavery

For example, in 1832 Thomas Dew of Virginia argued that many of the patriarchs of the Old Testament, God's chosen people, owned slaves. God's covenant with Abraham was an agreement with a slaveowner. God even rewarded him by giving him more slaves.

Among the many Bible passages cited by Dew was this one from Leviticus 25:44-46: "Both thy bondmen, and thy bondmaids, which thou shalt have, shall be of the heathen that are round about you; of them shall ye buy bondmen and bondmaids. Moreover of the children of the strangers that do sojourn among you, of them shall ye buy, and of their families that are with you, which they begat in your land: and they shall be your possession. And ye shall take them as an inheritance for your children after you, to inherit them for a possession; they shall be your bondmen for ever."

The Bible was once used to justify slavery, too

Jesus wants you to beat your wife? The dangers of ‘Christian Domestic Discipline’

From the Christian Domestic Discipline website...

When administering physical discipline, take caution not to deliver the lashes anywhere but the buttocks. The first attempt at this punishment should only be delivered by hand so you can get an idea of how many lashings are needed. The best position will be for you to sit at the end of a bed or on a chair (with no arms) and have her lay across your lap. She can also bend over a bed with arms tucked under her chest and your left hand on the small of her back. If a strap (belt) is to be implemented watch that each stoke falls directly on the buttocks and not higher. EDITOR'S NOTE: When using the hand, or a small, short implement, such as a switch or small "hairbrush"-type paddle, over-the-knee positioning can work quite well.

Opponents of slavery cited the Bible also, and did so much more effectively since the slavery that you are talking about in the Bible was temporary, not cradle to grave. But, by all means, keep ignoring half the truth if it makes it easier for you to hate.

And oddly, it wasn't Africans who ended slavery. And it wasn't the preaching of atheists or agnostic who ended the business. It were Christians who ended slavery in both England and then the United States.

 

[bodecea]

Gays have been adopting for decades...and we've been having our own children much longer than that.

Do you really want to go there? Do you not think I can find HUNDREDS of articles about how horrible straight children have been and are to children, especially foster children?

Our Kids are fine

A homosexual COUPLE cannot have their own children. The child is either of one homosexual and a surrogate or the other. The child cannot be the offspring of both. And I believe "married" couples (meaning a husband & wife) are not at the top of the list of child molesters.

Lots of couples can't have "their own" children and yet manage, through adoption, AI or invitro to do just that. Our children are OUR children, emotionally and legally.

Most molestations happen to girls by male members of their families so fuck you.

LittleNipper wants to throw all those couples under the bus.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Christian animosity toward homosexuals is not Christian, and indeed a sin.

Hatred of homosexuals is a human failing, forbidden by Christian dogma, which teaches love for one’s fellow man.

In this many Christians clearly fail.

Sin is sin according to God's Word and not according to your values or opinions. Love the sinner but hate the sin is what Christianity is actually about. I hate my own sins as a Christian. I do not celebrate them.
NOW, the reality is that liberals hate the messenger, as well as the message. They hate those they disagree with. They do not say, "I disagree with your opinion." They say, "You are a hate monger. You should be dragged through the streets and peed on. Your values are as outdated as you are." Note the difference. One is critical of a deed or a way of thinking, while the other is critical of the person. This is because liberals actually seem to think that their smarter, wiser and more open. They fact is that they are proving themselves the total opposite.

I own 3 businesses, one for 34 years, played a lot of ball in my day, vote Republican almost all the time, strong fiscal conservative, raised 3 kids, active in the community in all areas and am a Christian.
Sin has nothing to do with the law. Those are your beliefs only.
Do you believe eating ham sandwiches is a sin? How many ham sandwich eaters do you insult with your grandstanding of your religious beliefs?
Keep your so called values, beliefs and insults to yourself. Will give you a pass as it is obvious no one taught you that if you do not have something good to say about someone then be quiet.
You are the sole reason why we keep getting our asses kicked every election. I am a born winner, crossed the lines many times and started 3 businesses from scratch. I hate losing.
All you care about is spreading your religious dogma to back one group of folks you despise into a corner to make you feel better about yourself.
We got over that school boy nonsense years ago.
Religion has no place in politics. Gay folks deserve equal respect.

Still pretending that forcing people to do what you think is best means that they are free?

 

[LittleNipper]

Ephesians 5:25 ►






Parallel Verses

New International Version
Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her

New Living Translation
For husbands, this means love your wives, just as Christ loved the church. He gave up his life for her

English Standard Version
Husbands, love your wives, as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her,

New American Standard Bible
Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ also loved the church and gave Himself up for her,

King James Bible
Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;

Holman Christian Standard Bible
Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave Himself for her

International Standard Version
Husbands, love your wives as the Messiah loved the church and gave himself for it,

NET Bible
Husbands, love your wives just as Christ loved the church and gave himself for her

Aramaic Bible in Plain English
Husbands, love your wives, as The Messiah also loves his church and gave himself up for her sake,

GOD'S WORD® Translation
Husbands, love your wives as Christ loved the church and gave his life for it.

Jubilee Bible 2000
Husbands, love your wives even as the Christ also loved the congregation {Gr. ekklesia � called out ones} and gave himself for her,

King James 2000 Bible
Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;

American King James Version
Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;

American Standard Version
Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself up for it;

Douay-Rheims Bible
Husbands, love your wives, as Christ also loved the church, and delivered himself up for it:

Darby Bible Translation
Husbands, love your own wives, even as the Christ also loved the assembly, and has delivered himself up for it,

English Revised Version
Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself up for it;

Webster's Bible Translation
Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;

Weymouth New Testament
Married men, love your wives, as Christ also loved the Church and gave Himself up to death for her;

World English Bible
Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the assembly, and gave himself up for it;

Young's Literal Translation
The husbands! love your own wives, as also the Christ did love the assembly, and did give himself for it,

Parallel Commentaries
Matthew Henry's Concise Commentary

5:22-33 The duty of wives is, submission to their husbands in the Lord, which includes honouring and obeying them, from a principle of love to them. The duty of husbands is to love their wives. The love of Christ to the church is an example, which is sincere, pure, and constant, notwithstanding her failures. Christ gave himself for the church, that he might sanctify it in this world, and glorify it in the next, that he might bestow on all his members a principle of holiness, and deliver them from the guilt, the pollution, and the dominion of sin, by those influences of the Holy Spirit, of which baptismal water was the outward sign. The church and believers will not be without spot or wrinkle till they come to glory. But those only who are sanctified now, shall be glorified hereafter. The words of Adam, mentioned by the apostle, are spoken literally of marriage; but they have also a hidden sense in them, relating to the union between Christ and his church. It was a kind of type, as having resemblance. There will be failures and defects on both sides, in the present state of human nature, yet this does not alter the relation. All the duties of marriage are included in unity and love. And while we adore and rejoice in the condescending love of Christ, let husbands and wives learn hence their duties to each other. Thus the worst evils would be prevented, and many painful effects would be avoided.

Pulpit Commentary

Verse 25. - Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the Church, and gave himself for her. The husband's duty to the wife is enforced by another parallel - it ought to correspond to Christ's love for the Church. This parallel restores the balance; if it should seem hard for the wife to be in subjection, the spirit of love, Christ-like love, on the part of the husband makes the duty easy. Christ did not merely pity the Church, or merely desire her good, but loved her; her image was stamped on his heart and her name graven on his hands; he desired to have her for his companion, longing for a return of her affection, for the establishment of sympathy between her and him. And he gave himself for her (comp. ver. 2), showing that her happiness and welfare were dearer to him than his own - the true test of deep, real love.

Gill's Exposition of the Entire Bible

Husbands, love your wives,.... Which consists in a strong and cordial affection for them; in a real delight and pleasure in them; in showing respect, and doing honour to them; in seeking their contentment, satisfaction, and pleasure; in a quiet, constant, and comfortable dwelling with them; in providing all things necessary for them; in protecting them from all injuries and abuses; in concealing their faults, and covering their infirmities; in entertaining the best opinion of their persons and actions; and in endeavouring to promote their spiritual good and welfare: this love ought to be hearty and sincere, and not feigned and selfish; it should be shown in private, as well as in public: it should be chaste and single, constant and perpetual; it should exceed that which is bore to neighbours, or even to parents, and should be equal to that a man bears to himself; though not so as to hinder, and break in upon love to God and Christ: many are the reasons why husbands should love their wives; they are given to be helps unto them; they are companions of them; they are wives of covenant; they are their own wives, yea, their own bodies, their own flesh, nay, as themselves; they are their image and their glory; and especially the example of Christ, in his love to his church and people, should engage to it:

even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it: See Gill on Ephesians 5:2; the Syriac and Ethiopic versions read, "his own church"; his bride and spouse, whom he betrothed to himself from all eternity, the Father having given her to him; and is no other than the church of the firstborn, whose names are written in heaven, even all the elect of God.

Jamieson-Fausset-Brown Bible Commentary

25. "Thou hast seen the measure of obedience; now hear also the measure of love. Do you wish your wife to obey you, as the Church is to obey Christ? Then have a solicitude for her as Christ had for the Church (Eph 5:23, "Himself the Saviour of the body"); and "if it be necessary to give thy life for her, or to be cut in ten thousand pieces, or to endure any other suffering whatever, do not refuse it; and if you suffer thus, not even so do you do what Christ has done; for you indeed do so being already united to her, but He did so for one that treated Him with aversion and hatred. As, therefore, He brought to His feet one that so treated Him, and that even wantonly spurned Him, by much tenderness of regard, not by threats, insults, and terror: so also do you act towards your wife, and though you see her disdainful and wantonly wayward, you will be able to bring her to your feet by much thoughtfulness for her, by love, by kindness. For no bound is more sovereign in binding than such bonds, especially in the case of husband and wife. For one may constrain a servant by fear, though not even he is so to be bound to you; for he may readily run away. But the companion of your life, the mother of your children, the basis of all your joy, you ought to bind to you, not by fear and threats, but by love and attachment" [Chrysostom].

gave himself—Greek, "gave Himself up."

for it—Translate, "for her." The relation of the Church to Christ is the ground of Christianity's having raised woman to her due place in the social scale, from which she was, and is, excluded in heathen lands.

Ephesians 5:25


Context

Wives and Husbands
…24But as the church is subject to Christ, so also the wives ought to be to their husbands in everything. 25Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ also loved the church and gave Himself up for her, 26so that He might sanctify her, having cleansed her by the washing of water with the word,…

None of that changes what the bible has been used to justify, but thanks for playing.

Do yourself a favor, stop using the Bible to justify your hatred. I know it orders of magnitude better than you do, understand history a lot better, and can easily cause you to start saying something that is totally different than your original position as you are forced to clarify it. I already demonstrated that with your idiotic argument that churches cannot be sued.

Never say never: Couple suing to force church to perform gay marriage - Illinois Review
http://www.ncregister.com/daily-news/same-sex-couple-to-sue-church-of-england-for-marriage-rights/

 

[Quantum Windbag]

So gays wanting to marry is the same as Jim Crow Laws.
Who is being abused by gays being allowed to marry?

I don't know how you jumped from public accommodation to gay marraige, but no one ever said your brain worked.

Wedding cakes for gays getting married is a stretch for you I am sure.
I know your brain does not think that fast.

My point was that it is an abuse of government power. The solution to government abuse, for example, Jim Crow laws that prohibit a business from serving someone, is not more government abuse. This would be self evident to a fiscally conservative libertarian, if only we could find one somewhere.


For some obscure reason, probably because you have a brain fart every time you see one of my posts, this causes you to assume I oppose same sex marraige because I, like you, hate freedom. Did you notice that I have not said one thing against same sex marraige in this entire thread? That all I have done is challenge the idiots, like you, that always defend the government?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Again, what law or laws has this church broken?

They church made a choice and the people that attended made the choice.

The religion taught in that church, no longer fits the parishioners that went there and they agreed to separate.

No laws or rights on either side were infringed upon?

So why is this a big deal?

Nope, but that was never in contention. Their douchenozzlery is perfectly legal and should be. It's not illegal to call them out for their doucheness either.

It is, however, illegal to lie about what they did with malicious intent. If you want to call the church out for what they did then call them out for what they did, not what they didn't do.

They did not kick anyone out, they did not issue an ultimatum. What they did was remind the people that wrote the rules of the church, that they had no problem imposing on others over the years, that they applied to them also. That, by the bylaws of the church, they had done something wrong, and that those same bylaws required a public act of confession.

The family got all self righteous, and refused, and then left the church.

 

[Seawytch]

Ephesians 5:25 ►






Parallel Verses

New International Version
Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her

New Living Translation
For husbands, this means love your wives, just as Christ loved the church. He gave up his life for her

English Standard Version
Husbands, love your wives, as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her,

New American Standard Bible
Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ also loved the church and gave Himself up for her,

King James Bible
Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;

Holman Christian Standard Bible
Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave Himself for her

International Standard Version
Husbands, love your wives as the Messiah loved the church and gave himself for it,

NET Bible
Husbands, love your wives just as Christ loved the church and gave himself for her

Aramaic Bible in Plain English
Husbands, love your wives, as The Messiah also loves his church and gave himself up for her sake,

GOD'S WORD® Translation
Husbands, love your wives as Christ loved the church and gave his life for it.

Jubilee Bible 2000
Husbands, love your wives even as the Christ also loved the congregation {Gr. ekklesia � called out ones} and gave himself for her,

King James 2000 Bible
Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;

American King James Version
Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;

American Standard Version
Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself up for it;

Douay-Rheims Bible
Husbands, love your wives, as Christ also loved the church, and delivered himself up for it:

Darby Bible Translation
Husbands, love your own wives, even as the Christ also loved the assembly, and has delivered himself up for it,

English Revised Version
Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself up for it;

Webster's Bible Translation
Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;

Weymouth New Testament
Married men, love your wives, as Christ also loved the Church and gave Himself up to death for her;

World English Bible
Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the assembly, and gave himself up for it;

Young's Literal Translation
The husbands! love your own wives, as also the Christ did love the assembly, and did give himself for it,

Parallel Commentaries
Matthew Henry's Concise Commentary

5:22-33 The duty of wives is, submission to their husbands in the Lord, which includes honouring and obeying them, from a principle of love to them. The duty of husbands is to love their wives. The love of Christ to the church is an example, which is sincere, pure, and constant, notwithstanding her failures. Christ gave himself for the church, that he might sanctify it in this world, and glorify it in the next, that he might bestow on all his members a principle of holiness, and deliver them from the guilt, the pollution, and the dominion of sin, by those influences of the Holy Spirit, of which baptismal water was the outward sign. The church and believers will not be without spot or wrinkle till they come to glory. But those only who are sanctified now, shall be glorified hereafter. The words of Adam, mentioned by the apostle, are spoken literally of marriage; but they have also a hidden sense in them, relating to the union between Christ and his church. It was a kind of type, as having resemblance. There will be failures and defects on both sides, in the present state of human nature, yet this does not alter the relation. All the duties of marriage are included in unity and love. And while we adore and rejoice in the condescending love of Christ, let husbands and wives learn hence their duties to each other. Thus the worst evils would be prevented, and many painful effects would be avoided.

Pulpit Commentary

Verse 25. - Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the Church, and gave himself for her. The husband's duty to the wife is enforced by another parallel - it ought to correspond to Christ's love for the Church. This parallel restores the balance; if it should seem hard for the wife to be in subjection, the spirit of love, Christ-like love, on the part of the husband makes the duty easy. Christ did not merely pity the Church, or merely desire her good, but loved her; her image was stamped on his heart and her name graven on his hands; he desired to have her for his companion, longing for a return of her affection, for the establishment of sympathy between her and him. And he gave himself for her (comp. ver. 2), showing that her happiness and welfare were dearer to him than his own - the true test of deep, real love.

Gill's Exposition of the Entire Bible

Husbands, love your wives,.... Which consists in a strong and cordial affection for them; in a real delight and pleasure in them; in showing respect, and doing honour to them; in seeking their contentment, satisfaction, and pleasure; in a quiet, constant, and comfortable dwelling with them; in providing all things necessary for them; in protecting them from all injuries and abuses; in concealing their faults, and covering their infirmities; in entertaining the best opinion of their persons and actions; and in endeavouring to promote their spiritual good and welfare: this love ought to be hearty and sincere, and not feigned and selfish; it should be shown in private, as well as in public: it should be chaste and single, constant and perpetual; it should exceed that which is bore to neighbours, or even to parents, and should be equal to that a man bears to himself; though not so as to hinder, and break in upon love to God and Christ: many are the reasons why husbands should love their wives; they are given to be helps unto them; they are companions of them; they are wives of covenant; they are their own wives, yea, their own bodies, their own flesh, nay, as themselves; they are their image and their glory; and especially the example of Christ, in his love to his church and people, should engage to it:

even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it: See Gill on Ephesians 5:2; the Syriac and Ethiopic versions read, "his own church"; his bride and spouse, whom he betrothed to himself from all eternity, the Father having given her to him; and is no other than the church of the firstborn, whose names are written in heaven, even all the elect of God.

Jamieson-Fausset-Brown Bible Commentary

25. "Thou hast seen the measure of obedience; now hear also the measure of love. Do you wish your wife to obey you, as the Church is to obey Christ? Then have a solicitude for her as Christ had for the Church (Eph 5:23, "Himself the Saviour of the body"); and "if it be necessary to give thy life for her, or to be cut in ten thousand pieces, or to endure any other suffering whatever, do not refuse it; and if you suffer thus, not even so do you do what Christ has done; for you indeed do so being already united to her, but He did so for one that treated Him with aversion and hatred. As, therefore, He brought to His feet one that so treated Him, and that even wantonly spurned Him, by much tenderness of regard, not by threats, insults, and terror: so also do you act towards your wife, and though you see her disdainful and wantonly wayward, you will be able to bring her to your feet by much thoughtfulness for her, by love, by kindness. For no bound is more sovereign in binding than such bonds, especially in the case of husband and wife. For one may constrain a servant by fear, though not even he is so to be bound to you; for he may readily run away. But the companion of your life, the mother of your children, the basis of all your joy, you ought to bind to you, not by fear and threats, but by love and attachment" [Chrysostom].

gave himself—Greek, "gave Himself up."

for it—Translate, "for her." The relation of the Church to Christ is the ground of Christianity's having raised woman to her due place in the social scale, from which she was, and is, excluded in heathen lands.

Ephesians 5:25


Context

Wives and Husbands
…24But as the church is subject to Christ, so also the wives ought to be to their husbands in everything. 25Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ also loved the church and gave Himself up for her, 26so that He might sanctify her, having cleansed her by the washing of water with the word,…

None of that changes what the bible has been used to justify, but thanks for playing.

Do yourself a favor, stop using the Bible to justify your hatred. I know it orders of magnitude better than you do, understand history a lot better, and can easily cause you to start saying something that is totally different than your original position as you are forced to clarify it. I already demonstrated that with your idiotic argument that churches cannot be sued.

I clarified my first quick statement. Churches have never nor will they ever be sued into performing religious ceremonies for couples they object to, period.

I'm not the one "using" the bible to justify hate, the bigots have and still do.

 

[Seawytch]

Again, what law or laws has this church broken?

They church made a choice and the people that attended made the choice.

The religion taught in that church, no longer fits the parishioners that went there and they agreed to separate.

No laws or rights on either side were infringed upon?

So why is this a big deal?

Nope, but that was never in contention. Their douchenozzlery is perfectly legal and should be. It's not illegal to call them out for their doucheness either.

It is, however, illegal to lie about what they did with malicious intent. If you want to call the church out for what they did then call them out for what they did, not what they didn't do.

They did not kick anyone out, they did not issue an ultimatum. What they did was remind the people that wrote the rules of the church, that they had no problem imposing on others over the years, that they applied to them also. That, by the bylaws of the church, they had done something wrong, and that those same bylaws required a public act of confession.

The family got all self righteous, and refused, and then left the church.

They forced 'em out for supporting their gay daughter no matter how its spun.

 

[Seawytch]

None of that changes what the bible has been used to justify, but thanks for playing.

Do yourself a favor, stop using the Bible to justify your hatred. I know it orders of magnitude better than you do, understand history a lot better, and can easily cause you to start saying something that is totally different than your original position as you are forced to clarify it. I already demonstrated that with your idiotic argument that churches cannot be sued.

Never say never: Couple suing to force church to perform gay marriage - Illinois Review
http://www.ncregister.com/daily-news/same-sex-couple-to-sue-church-of-england-for-marriage-rights/

That's England, not the US.

 

[Papageorgio]

Again, what law or laws has this church broken?

They church made a choice and the people that attended made the choice.

The religion taught in that church, no longer fits the parishioners that went there and they agreed to separate.

No laws or rights on either side were infringed upon?

So why is this a big deal?

Nope, but that was never in contention. Their douchenozzlery is perfectly legal and should be. It's not illegal to call them out for their doucheness either.

Okay, that makes sense. Like I always have said, everyone has a right to an opinion and you have a right to call them on it.

 

[LittleNipper]

I clarified my first quick statement. Churches have never nor will they ever be sued into performing religious ceremonies for couples they object to, period.

I'm not the one "using" the bible to justify hate, the bigots have and still do.

Saturday, August 03, 2013


Couple suing to force church to perform gay marriage


Wealthy gay activist, Barrie Drewitt-Barlow, says he and his civil partner Tony will go to court to force churches to host gay weddings.

He told the Essex Chronicle that he will take legal action because “I am still not getting what I want. The only way forward for us now is to make a challenge in the courts against the church. It is a shame that we are forced to take Christians into a court to get them to recognise us. As much as people are saying this is a good thing I am still not getting what I want.”

A bill legalizing gay marriage passed the British Parliament recently. Like Illinois' gay marriage legislation, it included measures to protect churches from being forced to perform same-sex weddings.

However, legal experts cautioned that the British bill left the Church of England open to legal challenge. In June 2012 a Justice Minister admitted that the government’s plans could lead to legal issues. He said the government is “seeking to protect, indeed, proscribe religious organisations from offering gay marriage”, but he continued: “That may be problematic legally”.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

None of that changes what the bible has been used to justify, but thanks for playing.

Do yourself a favor, stop using the Bible to justify your hatred. I know it orders of magnitude better than you do, understand history a lot better, and can easily cause you to start saying something that is totally different than your original position as you are forced to clarify it. I already demonstrated that with your idiotic argument that churches cannot be sued.

I clarified my first quick statement. Churches have never nor will they ever be sued into performing religious ceremonies for couples they object to, period.

I'm not the one "using" the bible to justify hate, the bigots have and still do.

How do you explain the fact that they have been sued over it?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Nope, but that was never in contention. Their douchenozzlery is perfectly legal and should be. It's not illegal to call them out for their doucheness either.

It is, however, illegal to lie about what they did with malicious intent. If you want to call the church out for what they did then call them out for what they did, not what they didn't do.

They did not kick anyone out, they did not issue an ultimatum. What they did was remind the people that wrote the rules of the church, that they had no problem imposing on others over the years, that they applied to them also. That, by the bylaws of the church, they had done something wrong, and that those same bylaws required a public act of confession.

The family got all self righteous, and refused, and then left the church.

They forced 'em out for supporting their gay daughter no matter how its spun.

Asking people to follow rules they write is forcing them out. Nice.