Remember Whining About Cops Taking A Crazy Vet's Guns?

[AmyNation]

A doctor can start the process, only a court, under our Constitution, can complete it. Even for competency you have a right to face your accusers, have access to the evidence used against you, cross examine witnesses and present defense.

And I have already pointed out to you in the past, the vets don't lose any of the bolded.

A doctor alters the VA that a vet is mentally unstable
The VA alerts the vet of the doctors findings
The vet has 30 days to either agree with the findings or challenge
If the vet challenges he presents his evidence to an arbitrator and the VA presents theirs
If arbitrator finds against the vet, he can appeal and go before a judge to have the case heard.

So we’re all in agreement: authorities taking possession of a firearm from a person suspected of being mentally ill does not constitute ‘confiscation.’ The owner of the firearm has the right to due process, where he’s allowed to challenge the merits of the pending taking.

I don't think there's any confiscation even involved. They don't come and take the guns you have, they simply blacklist you from buying more.

 

[whitehall]

A doctor can start the process, only a court, under our Constitution, can complete it. Even for competency you have a right to face your accusers, have access to the evidence used against you, cross examine witnesses and present defense.

And I have already pointed out to you in the past, the vets don't lose any of the bolded.

A doctor alters the VA that a vet is mentally unstable
The VA alerts the vet of the doctors findings
The vet has 30 days to either agree with the findings or challenge
If the vet challenges he presents his evidence to an arbitrator and the VA presents theirs
If arbitrator finds against the vet, he can appeal and go before a judge to have the case heard.

So we’re all in agreement: authorities taking possession of a firearm from a person suspected of being mentally ill does not constitute ‘confiscation.’ The owner of the firearm has the right to due process, where he’s allowed to challenge the merits of the pending taking.

When a person agrees that a diagnosis of mental instability is so acute that it requires a federal disability check every month there is no need for a doctor's alert. If the statutes require a patient who suffers from PTSS to surrender his/her firearms it's OK but certainly we should protect the public and prevent a person who is on a mental related disability pension from "legally" purchasing a firearm.

 

[Wacky Quacky]

Crazy? That "Crazy" vet defended your freedom! You childish liberal prick. Show some freaking respect.

I'm a retired vet, retard.

First of all, let me thank you for your service, g5. No matter how unsightly your opinions might be-- you fought for the right to make them. But at any rate

My father is a Gulf War vet. Multiple generations of my family have served in any of the wars dating back to WWII up to the War on Terror. So your point would be, exactly? But where do you get off calling one of your own crazy? What should it matter if you are? So much for camaraderie. Did your superiors ever brand the warrior ethos into that head of yours?

You have an unrealistic view of the military.

It's because I was in the military that I know there are vets who shouldn't own a gun. It's because I was in the military that I know there are people who warrant being called crazy. Camaraderie? That only extends until you have something that other soldiers want (ie. possessions or wives/girlfriends), then camaraderie goes out the window. And my "superiors" were dumb asses who were given their rank because they would have gotten kicked out otherwise.

Being a vet doesn't absolve you from anything. We're still subject to mental illness just like everyone else. We're still capable of commiting crimes. We're humans just like everyone else.

 

[OKTexas]

You clearly have no clue what the words "due process" even mean. If the medical authorities and the police are following THE LAW, then due process is being observed. If THE LAW directs them to confiscate the weapons of a person who they consider an imminent threat to themselves or others, then due process has been observed.

A doctor can start the process, only a court, under our Constitution, can complete it. Even for competency you have a right to face your accusers, have access to the evidence used against you, cross examine witnesses and present defense.

And I have already pointed out to you in the past, the vets don't lose any of the bolded.

A doctor alters the VA that a vet is mentally unstable
The VA alerts the vet of the doctors findings
The vet has 30 days to either agree with the findings or challenge
If the vet challenges he presents his evidence to an arbitrator and the VA presents theirs
If arbitrator finds against the vet, he can appeal and go before a judge to have the case heard.

There are many cases where the Vet is unaware of anything before his home is raided by the BATFE and his guns are seized. VA puts individuals name on the ineligible list before the process is completed and many times before the Vet is notified of the determination. The burden of proof is placed on the Vet and not the VA, then imagine trying to get your guns back and your name off the list should an appeal succeed, do you really think the bureaucrats will expedite that process? No the system as is is screwed, VA should have to go to civil court before their name is added to the list. I have no problem with the temporary confiscation of their firearms, but it should be done by local authorities just like any civilian.

 

[whitehall]

You are crazy if you say you are crazy. If the federal government is convinced that you are crazy to the point that they are willing to compensate you for their responsibility for your craziness it's a done deal. You are officially diagnosed as crazy. Should crazy people be allowed to purchase firearms?

 

[OKTexas]

You are crazy if you say you are crazy. If the federal government is convinced that you are crazy to the point that they are willing to compensate you for their responsibility for your craziness it's a done deal. You are officially diagnosed as crazy. Should crazy people be allowed to purchase firearms?

You just continue to prove your ignorance. Do you know a person could recieve a 10% disability for PTSD and not even get a freaking check. A simple diagnosis of PTSD is no more a determination of carzy than a mild case of depression.

 

[whitehall]

You are crazy if you say you are crazy. If the federal government is convinced that you are crazy to the point that they are willing to compensate you for their responsibility for your craziness it's a done deal. You are officially diagnosed as crazy. Should crazy people be allowed to purchase firearms?

You just continue to prove your ignorance. Do you know a person could recieve a 10% disability for PTSD and not even get a freaking check. A simple diagnosis of PTSD is no more a determination of carzy than a mild case of depression.

Don't tell me a Veteran would agree to a mental disability discharge and not even get a check? Maybe it's a quick discharge agreement to get out of harms way. It's one more reason to prevent a PTSS patients from purchasing a firearm until they can convince the V.A. that they are no longer suicidal/clinically depressed.

 

[9thIDdoc]

However..............if someone has been diagnosed with PTSD (meaning that it is possible for them to snap at almost any time), and it had been done by an actual physician and psychologist, they should not be allowed to own guns.

PTSD means no such thing. PTSD does NOT indicate that a person is a threat to themselves or others.

 

[AmyNation]

It's not merely about PTSD. Not all vets with PTSD are listed as mentally unstable by the VA. And not all vets who are on the mentally unstable list have PTSD.

This is about a special listing where the VA finds you too mentally unstable to be trusted with your own funds. If you are on that list, you are also blacklisted from buying a firearm.

 

[whitehall]

Who would agree to a PTSS discharge of mental incompetence that would haunt them for the rest of their lives with no government compensation? Nut cases who committed an incoherent crime or just want to get out of their year in harms way? The system really needs to be investigated.

 

[whitehall]

It's not merely about PTSD. Not all vets with PTSD are listed as mentally unstable by the VA. And not all vets who are on the mentally unstable list have PTSD.

This is about a special listing where the VA finds you too mentally unstable to be trusted with your own funds. If you are on that list, you are also blacklisted from buying a firearm.

All Vets with PTSD are mentally unstable. That's the freaking point of the diagnosis. Maybe they think they think the diagnosis will lead to some government compensation but somebody should inform them that a diagnosis of PTSD will haunt them for the rest of their lives.

 

[9thIDdoc]

All Vets with PTSD are mentally unstable. That's the freaking point of the diagnosis. Maybe they think they think the diagnosis will lead to some government compensation but somebody should inform them that a diagnosis of PTSD will haunt them for the rest of their lives.

What part of "wrong" do you have a problem understanding? At least it's good to see you finally learned to spell PTSD. Abused and/or raped women and children may also get PTSD. Should they also lose their rights?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Marine killed in Texas shootings suspected in his wife's slaying

North Carolina police are investigating whether a Marine who was killed after going on a shooting rampage in Texas is also connected to the fatal stabbing of his wife, a police spokeswoman said on Tuesday.

Esteban Smith is suspected in a West Texas shooting rampage that left one woman dead and five others, including Concho County Sheriff Richard Doane, wounded, according to the Texas Department of Public Safety.

After the shooting, police recovered an assault rifle, a handgun and hundreds of rounds of ammunition from Smith's car, according to Texas officials.

Smith served two combat tours in Afghanistan, returning most recently in November 2012, Marine Corps spokeswoman Capt. Maureen Krebs told the Associated Press.

There's a reason why cops take guns away from crazy people, idiots. Using these mad fucks as some kind of "evidence" that Obamazz cummin fer yer gunz is actually proof of mental retardation on your part.

Yes, there is a reason cops take away people's guns without due process, they are part of a system that systematically denies people their legal rights. The fact that you can come up with examples of situations where it might have helped doesn't make it right, anymore than the fact that there were Japanese spies justified locking everyone who was Japanese up during WWII. Only a fascist would even attempt to make an argument that justified government abuse under any circumstance.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Only a court of law should have the ability to take someone's rights, period, end of story. Ever heard of due process?

So.....................you're cool with a person being diagnosed by a bona fide psychologist, but we've gotta wait until they go off and kill someone and get convicted as a felon before they aren't allowed to have guns?

Why are you in support of crazy people being allowed to have weapons, especially when they do stuff like this?

Pretty sure he did not say that. The real question is, would you give up your right to vote just because some cop said you shouldn't be able to vote?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Only a court of law should have the ability to take someone's rights, period, end of story. Ever heard of due process?

Ever hear of back ground checks? That way crazies cant get them in the first place. Period, end of story.

Ever hear of common sense?

You do understand that in order to fail a background check you have to have been in front of a judge, don't you?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Has it become disrespectful to point out that Veterans sometimes commit criminal acts? One of the perps in the infamous Truman Capote account of the horrendous murders in Kansas "In Cold Blood" was awarded a Bronze Star in Korea. Tim McVeigh was a Bronze Star Soldier in Iraq. Shit happens and Veterans are sometimes in the middle of it just like draft dodgers.

Cops sometimes commit horrendous crimes also, should we take away guns from cops? If not, what the fuck is your point?

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Marine killed in Texas shootings suspected in his wife's slaying

North Carolina police are investigating whether a Marine who was killed after going on a shooting rampage in Texas is also connected to the fatal stabbing of his wife, a police spokeswoman said on Tuesday.

Esteban Smith is suspected in a West Texas shooting rampage that left one woman dead and five others, including Concho County Sheriff Richard Doane, wounded, according to the Texas Department of Public Safety.

After the shooting, police recovered an assault rifle, a handgun and hundreds of rounds of ammunition from Smith's car, according to Texas officials.

Smith served two combat tours in Afghanistan, returning most recently in November 2012, Marine Corps spokeswoman Capt. Maureen Krebs told the Associated Press.

There's a reason why cops take guns away from crazy people, idiots. Using these mad fucks as some kind of "evidence" that Obamazz cummin fer yer gunz is actually proof of mental retardation on your part.

The law requires specific things to occur before one may be denied their right to be armed. In this case it would have required a doctor to have ask for him to be committed and then for a Judge to rule that he was not mentally fit.

But then I guess knee jerk emotion should rule us all right? You don't like our second amendment? Work to change it.

People have problems and act out and you would deny MILLIONS their rights cause a couple people acted out. Get a GRIP.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Only a court of law should have the ability to take someone's rights, period, end of story. Ever heard of due process?

So.....................you're cool with a person being diagnosed by a bona fide psychologist, but we've gotta wait until they go off and kill someone and get convicted as a felon before they aren't allowed to have guns?

Why are you in support of crazy people being allowed to have weapons, especially when they do stuff like this?

Not how the law works at all, the doctor or therapist report him to the cops per the law and if required he is involuntarily committed where he goes before a Judge and that Judge rules on his mental capacity.

You on the other hand would just let anybody accuse anyone of something and take away their rights.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Has it become disrespectful to point out that Veterans sometimes commit criminal acts? One of the perps in the infamous Truman Capote account of the horrendous murders in Kansas "In Cold Blood" was awarded a Bronze Star in Korea. Tim McVeigh was a Bronze Star Soldier in Iraq. Shit happens and Veterans are sometimes in the middle of it just like draft dodgers.

Don't forget about the dude who shot all those people from a tower in Austin back in the 50's, and the dude who shot Kennedy were both Marines.

However..............if someone has been diagnosed with PTSD (meaning that it is possible for them to snap at almost any time), and it had been done by an actual physician and psychologist, they should not be allowed to own guns.

And.................it IS possible to recover from PTSD, and when they can show significant progress towards recovery, their gun rights should be given back.

People with PTSD are not anymore prone to "snapping" than people with idiotic opinions.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

However, it does vindicate removing weapons from people who DO have a history or who make threats against themselves or others. And the people who whine about such instances are mentally retarded.

If you seriously think this vindicates anything you're the retarded one. You got a guy that went nuts with no apparent previous history of problems. It was a law enforcement matter with no political bearing at all. And trying to politicize a tragedy is a very poor reflection on YOU.

Got anything that says he was mentally stable?

One is not required to prove they are competent unless involuntarily committed. Perhaps we should restrict your rights cause, golly you seem threatening.