Remembering Robert E. Lee: American Patriot and Southern Hero

[saintmichaeldefendthem]

The pro-CSA loons are hysterical and hilarious.

No state had the right to secede.

SC had no legal right to interfere with the US transactions with its people in its own property (no, the property was not SC, it gave that right up).

The South rebelled and was executed rightfully by the North.

The shit you sycophants say is just deplorable. Not that it is shocking. Especially from a progressive authoritarian like you, Fake.

I've not seen such a sound thrashing on this board in a while.

It would be generous to describe slavery apologists in this thread as being on their heels.

Slavery was the reason the southern states militarily seized, and attacked, sovereign US territory.

They got what they deserved when Sherman made Georgia howl, and crushed their will to fight.

Now the descendants of slavers are Tea Partiers, Fox News Republicans, Stormfront members, and socially Conservative Evangelicals, who have revised their own history, and in many cases educational curriculum to suit their denial of reality.

The New Deal and the 60's revolution turned these intellectually filthy confederates into Pariahs, but if Fox News and the GOP have their way, they'll unfortunately feel good enough about themselves to do something stupid again, and create some neo-lost cause that will damage the United States

Who's advocating slavery? Did you just tell a lie?

Stop lying, Leftists!

An apologist usually apologizes for something his side, or someone on his/her side, has done, or thinks.

In this case...many of the righties on this site try to minimize slavery, and the southern justifications for secession, which cited the North's opposition to slavery as the main reason for secession.

Basically justifying secession and contemporary racial discrimination towards blacks.

Who's minimizing slavery? Did you just tell another lie?

Stop lying, Leftists!

 

[bripat9643]

Your belief that the South could have only exported manufactured goods to the Union is laughable, to say the least. Furthermore, slavery would have ended rapidly in the South if they had been allowed to secede because slaves could easily have escaped to the Union. It's hard to keep slaves when they get away so easily. Your belief that everything would have been the same until 1980 is almost comical. If there wasn't a Civil War, then the U.S. would never have entered WW I, it if ever occurred, and there probably wouldn't have been a WW II. The world would be so different today that it's hard to imagine.

In short, your theory is groundless caca.

If you think I'm saying things would have stayed the same up until the 1980s, then you don't understand the argument, which isn't surprising.

Tariffs on manufactured goods around the world averaged 40% up until WWII, and began to decline thereafter. However, they were roughly 20%-25% c1960. Those tariffs would have been applied to the Confederacy. Therefore, the cost structure of manufacturing would have made it prohibitive for manufacturers to move South in the 1960s and 1970s. But because the tariff was 0% as part of the union, they could move south. Also, there would have been no migration from the north to the south, which means the internal market of the South would have been smaller.

that would pretty much have ruled out the growth of industry in the Northern states, wouldn't it? Yet, somehow they manages to thrive. In fact, there was a large inflow of capital to the United States up until the Great Depression. Your theory doesn't seem to hold water.

The idea that slavery would have ended rapidly had the Civil War not taken place because "they could have escaped to the union" is one of the most retarded arguments ever. That would have been true regardless if the South stayed in the Union or not.

Hmmm, no it wouldn't because the fugitive slave act was in force. That's why slaves trying to escape from bondage had to go all the way to Canada.

You really don't know jack shit about American history, do you? Most of Lincoln's worshippers don't.

 

[bodecea]

Funny to watch those holding up the loser South of the 1860s as if it were something honorable...instead of a pack of slave supporting traitors.

 

[bripat9643]

How could tariffs be increased if they couldn't pass through the Senate?

Wrong question. You're claiming that the South had no legitimate gripe and just decided to secede for no reason. Since that idiocy came from you, it's up to you to defend it.

Are we still talking about those traitors? They were lucky they weren't lined up against a wall and shot. The leaders at the least.

Wanting to leave is treason? That's all they did was leave. Treason was Herr Lincoln Über Alles drawing up 75,000 troops and invading those states. He should have been shot.

Oh wait....he was!

They didn't have the authority to "leave" if that meant seizing American territory and calling it their own.

Horseshit. In the first place it wasn't American territory. It may have been federal property, but South Carolina still had legal jurisdiction over the territory. That fact has already been documented in this forum with historical documents.

Second, you're theory about who has authority to leave is pure hokum.

If they wanted to leave, they should have gone to Mexico or Canada, but wait! they didn't allow slavery either.

Aside from being an ignominious poltroon, you're just plain stupid, aren't you? I wont' bother explaining what's wrong with the above idiocy. There aren't enough hours in the day for that.

 

[bripat9643]

Funny to watch those holding up the loser South of the 1860s as if it were something honorable...instead of a pack of slave supporting traitors.

Another liberal turd who has given up any pretence of using facts or logic to support her case.

 

[bripat9643]

Nothing in the Constitution says a state can't secede.

The Supreme Court disagrees with you.


Let's see....United States Supreme Court, or some bitter, weak-minded imbecile on the internet...which has more credibility? Hmmmm........

Anyone who puts stock in what the Supreme Court rules is a weak minded imbecile. ...

What a shame you flunked out before getting to Civics.

They don't teach the truth about the SC in civics.

You really are some gullible boot-licking toady, aren't you?

 

[saintmichaeldefendthem]

You keep applying static thinking instead of dynamic adaptation. You assume that the South was incapable of developing it's own industrial base because of it's economic schematic prior to the war. A sovereign nation moves very quickly to attain self sufficiency and the Confederate States would have too. If you were a better student of history, you'd know that Great Britain made those same exact prognostications about the United States after it won its independence, and just like so many that root against the underdog, you included, they were spectacularly wrong.

Dynamic. Not static.

Static thinking is that the economic outcomes from the South wouldn't have been much different had the South left peacefully.

Why do you necessarily assume that your "dynamic" thinking would have resulted in a more positive outcome for the South rather than a more negative one than I have postulated? Why couldn't it have been worse?

If you were a better student of economic history, you would realize that countries most definitely do NOT attain anything near self-sufficiency. Instead, the trajectory of the world economy is for more integration and specialization, resulting in increased trade, as first articulated by David Ricardo and the Theory of Comparative Advantage. It means that as an independent country, the Confederacy would have been less likely to have grown it's industrial capacity, not more.

If you were a better student of economic history, you would also understand that there is no first world country today that had an economic base which relied upon slavery for its output. Europe didn't. Japan didn't. Canada didn't. Australia didn't. Even the United States didn't. But the South did. Economies which relied upon slave labor were generally economically stunted, and did not grow as fast as the first world did. That's not surprising, given that slave economies discouraged urbanization and development.

The United States didn't but the South did? Do you hear yourself? Who do you think built the ships and operated the slave trade. I'll give you a hint since you're history illiterate...it was Northern states. The entire country's economy was predicated on slavery and its perpetuation.

Secondly, you've said nothing to prove your static thinking correct that the South would have continued along the same trajectory, unable to establish its own industrial base and international trading partners. In fact, though we both agree that slavery was intrinsically wrong, for you it seems such a blinding force that you can't see your way around it or understand that slavery wasn't the only thing going on in the South. Your viewpoint is queered by an invincible bias that cripples your ability to apply critical thought to this subject, that's why for you, there is only one possible outcome for Southern Independence.

And you people call US closed minded!

 

[hortysir]

Funny to watch those holding up the loser South of the 1860s as if it were something honorable...instead of a pack of slave supporting traitors.

Funny to watch Toro talk about how slaveholding economies are stunted then to hear PPV AND Recon talk about how abundantly wealthy the south was.
Y'all should get together and get your talking points gathered better.

 

[JakeStarkey]

The secessionists were acting outside of the law and were put down like mad dogs.

 

[saintmichaeldefendthem]

You're not going to win this argument. Fort Sumter was no longer in the United States. For this reason they were asked peacefully to surrender but refused to do so. You can argue until you're blue in the fact that South Carolina had no right to secede, but in fact the right of secession was established even before the Constitution was ratified, Virginia asserting it's right to do so as a condition of ratification. New York and Rhode Island did this too. So South Carolina was not part of the United States, and short of a treaty, the United States had no right to erect military bases in a foreign country. Logic defies you, as usual.

Fort Sumter was a federal installation...we have military bases around here and they are NOT state property, they are federal property. You obviously know nothing about federal property and military installations.

I'll wager I've served on more military installations than you have. South Carolina wasn't a state, it was a sovereign nation. I can't dumb it down any further for you.

Too bad the reality of the Civil War fucked that all over for you. eh?

You sure are celebratory over 600K people dead due to a tyrant, aren't you?

The lust expressed by these "compassionate" liberals to see Southern blood spilled is really quite remarkable, don't you think? These people who claim to believe in the Bill of Rights, peace, non violence and tolerance chuck it all out the window the minute secession is mentioned.

That's really it. They just want to kill people who disagree with them and I wish that were hyperbole. None of them considered that there were peaceful ways to preserve the union without any bloodshed, mostly by enticing the seceding states to rejoin by getting rid of the stupid tariff laws and working out differences. But Lincoln's lust for blood, not dissimilar to that of most Leftists, steered this country on a path of war and death. Being a Leftist himself, (which is why he was supported by the radical German nationalist immigrant groups the '48ers) he had no conscience about killing people, or the destruction that war would bring to the country. Like Leftists of today, if there were peaceful options he didn't even consider them because he just wanted to kill people.

The funny thing is, Leftists celebrate the death of Southerners because they think they were racist, but Herr Lincoln, Über Alles was himself quite the racist.

 

[bripat9643]

The secessionists were acting outside of the law and were put down like mad dogs.

Wrong.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Please place these types of threads in the conspiracy forum from now on.

 

[saintmichaeldefendthem]

Funny to watch those holding up the loser South of the 1860s as if it were something honorable...instead of a pack of slave supporting traitors.

The best shot in the whole war.

 

[JakeStarkey]

stmike is pathologically very ill.

 

[bripat9643]

Funny to watch those holding up the loser South of the 1860s as if it were something honorable...instead of a pack of slave supporting traitors.

The best shot in the whole war.

It was 4 years too late.

 

[bripat9643]

Funny to watch those holding up the loser South of the 1860s as if it were something honorable...instead of a pack of slave supporting traitors.

The best shot in the whole war.

 

[Agit8r]

American traitor and worthless piece of shit.

 

[Camp]

American traitor and worthless piece of shit.

That isn't how the United States of America looks at it. We confiscated Lee's home and estate and turned it into a cemetery for Union troops. It was meant to be an insult to him that would continue forever. We bury our fallen patriots there to this day. To reinforce the insult a Memorial to Lincoln was built directly across the river from the Mansion and the cemetery.

 

[Unkotare]

Nothing in the Constitution says a state can't secede.

The Supreme Court disagrees with you.


Let's see....United States Supreme Court, or some bitter, weak-minded imbecile on the internet...which has more credibility? Hmmmm........

Anyone who puts stock in what the Supreme Court rules is a weak minded imbecile. ...

What a shame you flunked out before getting to Civics.

They don't teach the truth about the SC in civics.

You really are some gullible boot-licking toady, aren't you?

You must be popular on the Conspiracy Forum with the anal-probe tourists and the Haliburton Hurricane Machine mental cases.

Enjoy your Jell-O.

 

[Agit8r]

American traitor and worthless piece of shit.

That isn't how the United States of America looks at it. We confiscated Lee's home and estate and turned it into a cemetery for Union troops. It was meant to be an insult to him that would continue forever. We bury our fallen patriots there to this day. To reinforce the insult a Memorial to Lincoln was built directly across the river from the Mansion and the cemetery.

Right, right... I was talking about Lee