Reparations???

[NewsVine_Mariyam]

Can you explain to me how some foreigners come here, first generation, barely speaking the language, and do better than our blacks in America today? Who is more disadvantaged in your opinion, those foreigners who came here with twenty bucks in their pockets or our African Americans who's parents or grandparents were held back?

The beverage store I patron is owned by an Indian guy. He came here, worked night and day, opened up his own beverage store, and provided service no other competitor could. I never have to worry about him being out of the products I purchase. His personality, his attentiveness to customers needs, his hours all beat out his competition.

Because they still were not black. I don't know why this is so difficult for so many of you to understand.

Black people in America were, and in some cases still are DEMONIZED by white society. A poor white career criminal was still valued more than an educated, well spoken and cultured black person simply due to not being black. Still are in many cases.

And this wasn't just a case of social mores, or "that's just how we do things", this demonization was written into law which allowed people who had no lawful authority to carry out any actions against other private citizens to do so and get away with a variety of crimes against black people, with no concerns of punishment.

Our government sanctioned this. How would you feel if you were surrounded by a bunch of black people who it appeared only had one purpose in life and that was to regulate, aggravate and antagonize you to death and there wasn't a damn thing you could do about it. Does that sound like something that a civilized society should allow?

Maybe we should stop using the term racism and instead just refer to things as American apartheid as I recently saw one of my friends do.

 

[Slade3200]

No I can not. Because your life starts when you were born and many blacks have found success since then. It doesn't matter to me what my father or grandfather went through in life. I was born in a country where even foreigners come here with no money and with hard work, become successful.

If I'm a failure today, it has nothing to do with my father or mother being a failure......or my grandparents. We have a political party that constantly gives people excuses for their failures, and blame it on other entities. Eventually people believe them; a party that promoted single-parent families which are directly related to poverty and crime.

You don't have to believe me. Take it from a black man that grew up during that time and became a huge success, Dr Walter E Williams.

If we put ourselves into the shoes of racists who seek to sabotage black upward mobility, we couldn't develop a more effective agenda than that followed by civil rights organizations, black politicians, academics, liberals and the news media. Let's look at it.

First, weaken the black family, but don't blame it on individual choices. You have to preach that today's weak black family is a legacy of slavery, Jim Crow and racism. The truth is that black female-headed households were just 18 percent of households in 1950, as opposed to about 68 percent today. In fact, from 1890 to 1940, the black marriage rate was slightly higher than that of whites. Even during slavery, when marriage was forbidden for blacks, most black children lived in biological two-parent families. In New York City, in 1925, 85 percent of black households were two-parent households. A study of 1880 family structure in Philadelphia shows that three-quarters of black families were two-parent households.

During the 1960s, devastating nonsense emerged, exemplified by a Johns Hopkins University sociology professor who argued, "It has yet to be shown that the absence of a father was directly responsible for any of the supposed deficiencies of broken homes." The real issue, he went on to say, "is not the lack of male presence but the lack of male income." That suggests marriage and fatherhood can be replaced by a welfare check.

Walter Williams: Black Self-Sabotage

It's a short read with a lot of information. I suggest you spend a minute or two and read it for yourself.

Individual choice and opportunity are exactly what we should promote I agree with you there. I’m not arguing against that. I’m trying to get you to recognize that which is right in front of your face. You’ve already admitted that poor children have a tougher battle than wealthy children and by the numbers will not achieve the same levels of education and wealth. You’ve dodged answering but I think you know as we all do that systemic discrimination through law in this country has caused tremendous damage to the black community as it restricted generations from accumulating property, wealth, and education. It’s 2+2, just put it together. Recognition goes a long way. When you avoid acknowledging that reality and pretend that history didn’t happen then your audience goes deaf to the rest of the things you say.

Get on the same page and then we can talk about solutions. I actually agree that welfare is broken and causing damage and dependency in the impoverished communities. I also think the idea of entitlements has had damaging effects. So as we discuss solutions I think you will find we have more in common than you think. But these people got screwed by our country. We all know it. We should all acknowledge it and stop pretending like nothing happened and it’s all good now.

The point of the article is that slavery and Jim Crow are cheap excuses for failures of today. As I pointed out in the story of my father, he got handed nothing but more challenges from his parents. You will find that most white people are the same way. And again, if anything is handed down, our generation will probably be the first for most whites.

Black are not getting less of an education, however blacks take much less advantage of it, and that's not our fault. If you took a middle-class white student body, and put them in these same low-income schools, they will continue to do fine. The black student body that got their school? They will continue to fail.

The school is not the failure, the parent is. When people shove their children on the school bus and that ends their educational involvement, of course you're going to get poorer results.

I've told this story before on USMB before, so if you read it already, skip over.

My former next door neighbor bought a portable basketball hoop. Before you knew it, kids were coming here from everywhere. They played from the time they came home from school until well past dark; sometimes to 10:00 pm. They tried to play later, but I told them to cut it out or called the police.

This didn't happen in the white neighborhood I grew up in. We were in the house well before dark. Our parents made sure our homework was done, we had a shower, and in bed at a reasonable enough time for ample sleep for the next school day. They knew where we were every minute, and it wasn't several streets away.

In other words, place the blame where it rightly belongs.

What you aren’t understanding is the difference between your parents and grandparents and their challenges vs those of generation old blacks who’s challenges were a direct result of our laws and government. Generations of discrimination by our system that resulted in poverty, low education, broken families, high crime and many other factors that impact the black population today. How can you gloss over all that as insignificant?

You admitted earlier that a child from an uneducated low income family has worse odds of achieving success than a child from a high income family. Well millions of blacks were stuffed into that low income bracket because of generations of racist laws made by our country. Take a second to think about that before reacting.

I've thought about it over and over again because the left keeps regurgitating this topic and has been for years.

If my parents (for whatever reason) were restricted in income, unable to provide us with the extras, kept us in low income housing, that's mostly the responsibility of my parents. Nobody should be having children they can't afford, or bringing them into the world of poverty or low income areas. That's personal responsibility.

But even if that was the case, it's up to me as an adult to overcome and do better than my parents. It's up to me to learn from their mistakes.

Can you explain to me how some foreigners come here, first generation, barely speaking the language, and do better than our blacks in America today? Who is more disadvantaged in your opinion, those foreigners who came here with twenty bucks in their pockets or our African Americans who's parents or grandparents were held back?

The beverage store I patron is owned by an Indian guy. He came here, worked night and day, opened up his own beverage store, and provided service no other competitor could. I never have to worry about him being out of the products I purchase. His personality, his attentiveness to customers needs, his hours all beat out his competition.

After he started doing well, he took on buying rental property which he still manages. On top of that, he purchased a small hotel outside of town about 40 miles, and it's doing fantastic as well. He and his wife seldom see each other because she quit working the beverage store to run the hotel.

If he can do this, why can't any other American including a black one?

If you are told by those in the media, those in government, those in education, those in entertainment again and again and again how much you are disadvantaged, how much you are oppressed, how much you are mistreated disrespected, being held back, being denied opportunity, are started out on so unlevel a playing field that you are victimized on every side, and you should be angry, resentful, and retaliatory because of it, a whole bunch of people will believe it and won't even try. And they will look to the powers to be to rescue them which of course isn[t going to happen because those powers need them to believe they are victims to keep those powers in power and increasing their own prestige, influence, and personal wealth.

True, this can be a problem and needs to be considered. But there are also many people out there working really hard to help the disadvantaged and the black community, there are many out there that are still being belittled and marginalized. It’s not a game of absolutes. Not everybody is entitled and gaming the system. Theres good work being done and there are also abuses. Both can and do exist

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Our government sanctioned this. How would you feel if you were surrounded by a bunch of black people who it appeared only had one purpose in life and that was to regulate, aggravate and antagonize you to death and there wasn't a damn thing you could do about it. Does that sound like something that a civilized society should allow?

Do you still live in the 50's or something? Let me tell you some of our customers are replacing their mostly white crew with blacks. It's not reparations or laws, it's that blacks will work for less money. My handyman that I use is black, my exterminator is black. Why? Because I feel guilty? Because I'm afraid to hire whites? No, it's because they provide good work at a more than reasonable price.

 

[Lesh]

it's that blacks will work for less money. My handyman that I use is black, my exterminator is black. Why? Because I feel guilty? Because I'm afraid to hire whites? No, it's because they provide good work at a more than reasonable price.

You just ADMITTED that blacks are getting paid less...

Do you think they do that because they LIKE you?

They have no other CHOICE

 

[Damaged Eagle]

View attachment 247558

Perhaps it's time to rid ourselves of a few government funded programs. Programs such as Affirmative Action and other things meant to supposedly make reparations to specific minority groups are pretty vague in my humble opinion. The blacks site that it's reparations for slavery and things that happened to violate their civil rights since that time. However today is not then and since then there have been a large number of new immigrants who have no justification to claim such reparations just because they happen to be from Africa and elsewhere.

In what way do the American people owe "reparations" or Affirmative Action to people who immigrated here after the Civil War, much less after the Civil Rights Acts of the 50's and 60's, just because a person has dark skin?

If these programs are meant as reparations and such then the person applying for said programs should have to prove that their families were citizens of the United States during those times.

Additionally if there are immigrants who have used these programs then they should be required to return said money to the United States with interest.

*****SMILE*****

What is with this obsession with the political affiliation of others, particularly Democrats? One's political affiliation is not something a person is born with and cannot change, in fact a person can change party with little or minimal effort required. Hell your president has done so 5 different times

Trump registered as a Republican in Manhattan in 1987 and since that time has changed his party affiliation five times. In 1999, Trump changed his party affiliation to the Independence Party of New York. In August 2001, Trump changed his party affiliation to Democratic. In September 2009, Trump changed his party affiliation back to the Republican Party. In December 2011, Trump changed to "no party affiliation" (independent). In April 2012, Trump again returned to the Republican Party
Political positions of Donald Trump - Wikipedia​

1. Where did I mention any political affiliation or party in the OP?

2. In what way does your post deal with the OP topic content?

******SMILE*****

 

[Damaged Eagle]

The difference between your poor parents, the foreigners with 20 bucks in their pockets and the disadvanged Blacks is the fact that only one of those groups was oppressed for generations by our government which resulted in their challenging position. Do you understand that?

So what you're saying is that government funding of Affirmative Action and other programs, which immigrants who came here after the Civil Rights Acts who never experienced all oppression and the 'challenging position' of blacks who's families have been here for generations, was not needed and should be paid back.

*****SMILE*****

 

[iceberg]

Individual choice and opportunity are exactly what we should promote I agree with you there. I’m not arguing against that. I’m trying to get you to recognize that which is right in front of your face. You’ve already admitted that poor children have a tougher battle than wealthy children and by the numbers will not achieve the same levels of education and wealth. You’ve dodged answering but I think you know as we all do that systemic discrimination through law in this country has caused tremendous damage to the black community as it restricted generations from accumulating property, wealth, and education. It’s 2+2, just put it together. Recognition goes a long way. When you avoid acknowledging that reality and pretend that history didn’t happen then your audience goes deaf to the rest of the things you say.

Get on the same page and then we can talk about solutions. I actually agree that welfare is broken and causing damage and dependency in the impoverished communities. I also think the idea of entitlements has had damaging effects. So as we discuss solutions I think you will find we have more in common than you think. But these people got screwed by our country. We all know it. We should all acknowledge it and stop pretending like nothing happened and it’s all good now.

The point of the article is that slavery and Jim Crow are cheap excuses for failures of today. As I pointed out in the story of my father, he got handed nothing but more challenges from his parents. You will find that most white people are the same way. And again, if anything is handed down, our generation will probably be the first for most whites.

Black are not getting less of an education, however blacks take much less advantage of it, and that's not our fault. If you took a middle-class white student body, and put them in these same low-income schools, they will continue to do fine. The black student body that got their school? They will continue to fail.

The school is not the failure, the parent is. When people shove their children on the school bus and that ends their educational involvement, of course you're going to get poorer results.

I've told this story before on USMB before, so if you read it already, skip over.

My former next door neighbor bought a portable basketball hoop. Before you knew it, kids were coming here from everywhere. They played from the time they came home from school until well past dark; sometimes to 10:00 pm. They tried to play later, but I told them to cut it out or called the police.

This didn't happen in the white neighborhood I grew up in. We were in the house well before dark. Our parents made sure our homework was done, we had a shower, and in bed at a reasonable enough time for ample sleep for the next school day. They knew where we were every minute, and it wasn't several streets away.

In other words, place the blame where it rightly belongs.

What you aren’t understanding is the difference between your parents and grandparents and their challenges vs those of generation old blacks who’s challenges were a direct result of our laws and government. Generations of discrimination by our system that resulted in poverty, low education, broken families, high crime and many other factors that impact the black population today. How can you gloss over all that as insignificant?

You admitted earlier that a child from an uneducated low income family has worse odds of achieving success than a child from a high income family. Well millions of blacks were stuffed into that low income bracket because of generations of racist laws made by our country. Take a second to think about that before reacting.

I've thought about it over and over again because the left keeps regurgitating this topic and has been for years.

If my parents (for whatever reason) were restricted in income, unable to provide us with the extras, kept us in low income housing, that's mostly the responsibility of my parents. Nobody should be having children they can't afford, or bringing them into the world of poverty or low income areas. That's personal responsibility.

But even if that was the case, it's up to me as an adult to overcome and do better than my parents. It's up to me to learn from their mistakes.

Can you explain to me how some foreigners come here, first generation, barely speaking the language, and do better than our blacks in America today? Who is more disadvantaged in your opinion, those foreigners who came here with twenty bucks in their pockets or our African Americans who's parents or grandparents were held back?

The beverage store I patron is owned by an Indian guy. He came here, worked night and day, opened up his own beverage store, and provided service no other competitor could. I never have to worry about him being out of the products I purchase. His personality, his attentiveness to customers needs, his hours all beat out his competition.

After he started doing well, he took on buying rental property which he still manages. On top of that, he purchased a small hotel outside of town about 40 miles, and it's doing fantastic as well. He and his wife seldom see each other because she quit working the beverage store to run the hotel.

If he can do this, why can't any other American including a black one?

If you are told by those in the media, those in government, those in education, those in entertainment again and again and again how much you are disadvantaged, how much you are oppressed, how much you are mistreated disrespected, being held back, being denied opportunity, are started out on so unlevel a playing field that you are victimized on every side, and you should be angry, resentful, and retaliatory because of it, a whole bunch of people will believe it and won't even try. And they will look to the powers to be to rescue them which of course isn[t going to happen because those powers need them to believe they are victims to keep those powers in power and increasing their own prestige, influence, and personal wealth.

True, this can be a problem and needs to be considered. But there are also many people out there working really hard to help the disadvantaged and the black community, there are many out there that are still being belittled and marginalized. It’s not a game of absolutes. Not everybody is entitled and gaming the system. Theres good work being done and there are also abuses. Both can and do exist

the problem is you can't make all of that go away. are we so focused on when they occur that we "believe" they happen a lot more often than they do?

there are no guarantees life won't suck along the way. none. i agree we should stay vigilant and work towards a better future for us all but if we keep making just about EVERYTHING a huge social issue, how do we prioritize what is *really* going to make the biggest impact?

we agree both can and do exist. i just don't think we always need to "do something" every time something "bad" happens in the world.

 

[Slade3200]

The difference between your poor parents, the foreigners with 20 bucks in their pockets and the disadvanged Blacks is the fact that only one of those groups was oppressed for generations by our government which resulted in their challenging position. Do you understand that?

View attachment 247985

So what you're saying is that government funding of Affirmative Action and other programs, which immigrants who came here after the Civil Rights Acts who never experienced all oppression and the 'challenging position' of blacks who's families have been here for generations, was not needed and should be paid back.

*****SMILE*****

No that’s what YOU are saying not me, you often confuse the two and have a hard time understanding what I’m actually saying. A little advice, just read my words, they aren’t complicated. Save the interpretations, you are wrong more often than not.

And learn how to answer direct questions. You’ve dodged the majority of question I’ve asked you. Can’t respect that

 

[Damaged Eagle]

The difference between your poor parents, the foreigners with 20 bucks in their pockets and the disadvanged Blacks is the fact that only one of those groups was oppressed for generations by our government which resulted in their challenging position. Do you understand that?

View attachment 247985

So what you're saying is that government funding of Affirmative Action and other programs, which immigrants who came here after the Civil Rights Acts who never experienced all oppression and the 'challenging position' of blacks who's families have been here for generations, was not needed and should be paid back.

*****SMILE*****

No that’s what YOU are saying not me, you often confuse the two and have a hard time understanding what I’m actually saying. A little advice, just read my words, they aren’t complicated. Save the interpretations, you are wrong more often than not.

And learn how to answer direct questions. You’ve dodged the majority of question I’ve asked you. Can’t respect that

When did you answer the opening question in the OP?

*****CHUCKLE*****

 

[Slade3200]

The point of the article is that slavery and Jim Crow are cheap excuses for failures of today. As I pointed out in the story of my father, he got handed nothing but more challenges from his parents. You will find that most white people are the same way. And again, if anything is handed down, our generation will probably be the first for most whites.

Black are not getting less of an education, however blacks take much less advantage of it, and that's not our fault. If you took a middle-class white student body, and put them in these same low-income schools, they will continue to do fine. The black student body that got their school? They will continue to fail.

The school is not the failure, the parent is. When people shove their children on the school bus and that ends their educational involvement, of course you're going to get poorer results.

I've told this story before on USMB before, so if you read it already, skip over.

My former next door neighbor bought a portable basketball hoop. Before you knew it, kids were coming here from everywhere. They played from the time they came home from school until well past dark; sometimes to 10:00 pm. They tried to play later, but I told them to cut it out or called the police.

This didn't happen in the white neighborhood I grew up in. We were in the house well before dark. Our parents made sure our homework was done, we had a shower, and in bed at a reasonable enough time for ample sleep for the next school day. They knew where we were every minute, and it wasn't several streets away.

In other words, place the blame where it rightly belongs.

What you aren’t understanding is the difference between your parents and grandparents and their challenges vs those of generation old blacks who’s challenges were a direct result of our laws and government. Generations of discrimination by our system that resulted in poverty, low education, broken families, high crime and many other factors that impact the black population today. How can you gloss over all that as insignificant?

You admitted earlier that a child from an uneducated low income family has worse odds of achieving success than a child from a high income family. Well millions of blacks were stuffed into that low income bracket because of generations of racist laws made by our country. Take a second to think about that before reacting.

I've thought about it over and over again because the left keeps regurgitating this topic and has been for years.

If my parents (for whatever reason) were restricted in income, unable to provide us with the extras, kept us in low income housing, that's mostly the responsibility of my parents. Nobody should be having children they can't afford, or bringing them into the world of poverty or low income areas. That's personal responsibility.

But even if that was the case, it's up to me as an adult to overcome and do better than my parents. It's up to me to learn from their mistakes.

Can you explain to me how some foreigners come here, first generation, barely speaking the language, and do better than our blacks in America today? Who is more disadvantaged in your opinion, those foreigners who came here with twenty bucks in their pockets or our African Americans who's parents or grandparents were held back?

The beverage store I patron is owned by an Indian guy. He came here, worked night and day, opened up his own beverage store, and provided service no other competitor could. I never have to worry about him being out of the products I purchase. His personality, his attentiveness to customers needs, his hours all beat out his competition.

After he started doing well, he took on buying rental property which he still manages. On top of that, he purchased a small hotel outside of town about 40 miles, and it's doing fantastic as well. He and his wife seldom see each other because she quit working the beverage store to run the hotel.

If he can do this, why can't any other American including a black one?

If you are told by those in the media, those in government, those in education, those in entertainment again and again and again how much you are disadvantaged, how much you are oppressed, how much you are mistreated disrespected, being held back, being denied opportunity, are started out on so unlevel a playing field that you are victimized on every side, and you should be angry, resentful, and retaliatory because of it, a whole bunch of people will believe it and won't even try. And they will look to the powers to be to rescue them which of course isn[t going to happen because those powers need them to believe they are victims to keep those powers in power and increasing their own prestige, influence, and personal wealth.

True, this can be a problem and needs to be considered. But there are also many people out there working really hard to help the disadvantaged and the black community, there are many out there that are still being belittled and marginalized. It’s not a game of absolutes. Not everybody is entitled and gaming the system. Theres good work being done and there are also abuses. Both can and do exist

the problem is you can't make all of that go away. are we so focused on when they occur that we "believe" they happen a lot more often than they do?

there are no guarantees life won't suck along the way. none. i agree we should stay vigilant and work towards a better future for us all but if we keep making just about EVERYTHING a huge social issue, how do we prioritize what is *really* going to make the biggest impact?

we agree both can and do exist. i just don't think we always need to "do something" every time something "bad" happens in the world.

I agree, it would help a ton if we could have healthy and honest debate about issues. Without the soapbox, overdramatization and demonization that many do to try and advance their cause. Nobody’s listening to each other anymore and everybody is so focused on “winning” and campaigning. We are getting lost in a web of lies and distortion.

 

[Slade3200]

The difference between your poor parents, the foreigners with 20 bucks in their pockets and the disadvanged Blacks is the fact that only one of those groups was oppressed for generations by our government which resulted in their challenging position. Do you understand that?

View attachment 247985

So what you're saying is that government funding of Affirmative Action and other programs, which immigrants who came here after the Civil Rights Acts who never experienced all oppression and the 'challenging position' of blacks who's families have been here for generations, was not needed and should be paid back.

*****SMILE*****

No that’s what YOU are saying not me, you often confuse the two and have a hard time understanding what I’m actually saying. A little advice, just read my words, they aren’t complicated. Save the interpretations, you are wrong more often than not.

And learn how to answer direct questions. You’ve dodged the majority of question I’ve asked you. Can’t respect that

View attachment 247992

When did you answer the opening question in the OP?

*****CHUCKLE*****

Probably in my first post. I have no problem giving direct answers to direct questions. You should try it sometime.

 

[Foxfyre]

Individual choice and opportunity are exactly what we should promote I agree with you there. I’m not arguing against that. I’m trying to get you to recognize that which is right in front of your face. You’ve already admitted that poor children have a tougher battle than wealthy children and by the numbers will not achieve the same levels of education and wealth. You’ve dodged answering but I think you know as we all do that systemic discrimination through law in this country has caused tremendous damage to the black community as it restricted generations from accumulating property, wealth, and education. It’s 2+2, just put it together. Recognition goes a long way. When you avoid acknowledging that reality and pretend that history didn’t happen then your audience goes deaf to the rest of the things you say.

Get on the same page and then we can talk about solutions. I actually agree that welfare is broken and causing damage and dependency in the impoverished communities. I also think the idea of entitlements has had damaging effects. So as we discuss solutions I think you will find we have more in common than you think. But these people got screwed by our country. We all know it. We should all acknowledge it and stop pretending like nothing happened and it’s all good now.

The point of the article is that slavery and Jim Crow are cheap excuses for failures of today. As I pointed out in the story of my father, he got handed nothing but more challenges from his parents. You will find that most white people are the same way. And again, if anything is handed down, our generation will probably be the first for most whites.

Black are not getting less of an education, however blacks take much less advantage of it, and that's not our fault. If you took a middle-class white student body, and put them in these same low-income schools, they will continue to do fine. The black student body that got their school? They will continue to fail.

The school is not the failure, the parent is. When people shove their children on the school bus and that ends their educational involvement, of course you're going to get poorer results.

I've told this story before on USMB before, so if you read it already, skip over.

My former next door neighbor bought a portable basketball hoop. Before you knew it, kids were coming here from everywhere. They played from the time they came home from school until well past dark; sometimes to 10:00 pm. They tried to play later, but I told them to cut it out or called the police.

This didn't happen in the white neighborhood I grew up in. We were in the house well before dark. Our parents made sure our homework was done, we had a shower, and in bed at a reasonable enough time for ample sleep for the next school day. They knew where we were every minute, and it wasn't several streets away.

In other words, place the blame where it rightly belongs.

What you aren’t understanding is the difference between your parents and grandparents and their challenges vs those of generation old blacks who’s challenges were a direct result of our laws and government. Generations of discrimination by our system that resulted in poverty, low education, broken families, high crime and many other factors that impact the black population today. How can you gloss over all that as insignificant?

You admitted earlier that a child from an uneducated low income family has worse odds of achieving success than a child from a high income family. Well millions of blacks were stuffed into that low income bracket because of generations of racist laws made by our country. Take a second to think about that before reacting.

I've thought about it over and over again because the left keeps regurgitating this topic and has been for years.

If my parents (for whatever reason) were restricted in income, unable to provide us with the extras, kept us in low income housing, that's mostly the responsibility of my parents. Nobody should be having children they can't afford, or bringing them into the world of poverty or low income areas. That's personal responsibility.

But even if that was the case, it's up to me as an adult to overcome and do better than my parents. It's up to me to learn from their mistakes.

Can you explain to me how some foreigners come here, first generation, barely speaking the language, and do better than our blacks in America today? Who is more disadvantaged in your opinion, those foreigners who came here with twenty bucks in their pockets or our African Americans who's parents or grandparents were held back?

The beverage store I patron is owned by an Indian guy. He came here, worked night and day, opened up his own beverage store, and provided service no other competitor could. I never have to worry about him being out of the products I purchase. His personality, his attentiveness to customers needs, his hours all beat out his competition.

After he started doing well, he took on buying rental property which he still manages. On top of that, he purchased a small hotel outside of town about 40 miles, and it's doing fantastic as well. He and his wife seldom see each other because she quit working the beverage store to run the hotel.

If he can do this, why can't any other American including a black one?

If you are told by those in the media, those in government, those in education, those in entertainment again and again and again how much you are disadvantaged, how much you are oppressed, how much you are mistreated disrespected, being held back, being denied opportunity, are started out on so unlevel a playing field that you are victimized on every side, and you should be angry, resentful, and retaliatory because of it, a whole bunch of people will believe it and won't even try. And they will look to the powers to be to rescue them which of course isn[t going to happen because those powers need them to believe they are victims to keep those powers in power and increasing their own prestige, influence, and personal wealth.

True, this can be a problem and needs to be considered. But there are also many people out there working really hard to help the disadvantaged and the black community, there are many out there that are still being belittled and marginalized. It’s not a game of absolutes. Not everybody is entitled and gaming the system. Theres good work being done and there are also abuses. Both can and do exist

I don't take away from all the people out there trying to improve the lives of the disadvantaged, and I can assure you the the vast majority of those are not reinforcing a victim mentality in the people they are working with. I count myself as one of them. A few of us date back to the time that segregation of black people was condemned and stopped. I count myself as one of those too though I was very young at the time.

But nobody with any intellectual honesty is helping black people by telling them how victimized they are and how 'whitey' or the police or any other groups are keeping them down and make it impossible for them to reach for the American dream. Those who continue to convince black people how disadvantaged they are, especially those who do that to increase their own power, influence, and/or personal wealth, in my opinion are doing evil.

 

[Faun]

View attachment 247558

Perhaps it's time to rid ourselves of a few government funded programs. Programs such as Affirmative Action and other things meant to supposedly make reparations to specific minority groups are pretty vague in my humble opinion. The blacks site that it's reparations for slavery and things that happened to violate their civil rights since that time. However today is not then and since then there have been a large number of new immigrants who have no justification to claim such reparations just because they happen to be from Africa and elsewhere.

In what way do the American people owe "reparations" or Affirmative Action to people who immigrated here after the Civil War, much less after the Civil Rights Acts of the 50's and 60's, just because a person has dark skin?

If these programs are meant as reparations and such then the person applying for said programs should have to prove that their families were citizens of the United States during those times.

Additionally if there are immigrants who have used these programs then they should be required to return said money to the United States with interest.

*****SMILE*****

There’s a new round of reparations coming when the next Democrat president declares a national emergency over black poverty and hands blacks a couple of trillion dollars to split amongst them.

 

[Lesh]

View attachment 247558

Perhaps it's time to rid ourselves of a few government funded programs. Programs such as Affirmative Action and other things meant to supposedly make reparations to specific minority groups are pretty vague in my humble opinion. The blacks site that it's reparations for slavery and things that happened to violate their civil rights since that time. However today is not then and since then there have been a large number of new immigrants who have no justification to claim such reparations just because they happen to be from Africa and elsewhere.

In what way do the American people owe "reparations" or Affirmative Action to people who immigrated here after the Civil War, much less after the Civil Rights Acts of the 50's and 60's, just because a person has dark skin?

If these programs are meant as reparations and such then the person applying for said programs should have to prove that their families were citizens of the United States during those times.

Additionally if there are immigrants who have used these programs then they should be required to return said money to the United States with interest.

*****SMILE*****

There’s a new round of reparations coming when the next Democrat president declares a national emergency over black poverty and hands blacks a couple of trillion dollars to split amongst them.

Hyperbole that plays into the racists hands. Nothing like that is ever going to happen and the only candidate who has proposed anything like cash payments is Castro...and I absolutely do not support him or that

 

[Slade3200]

The point of the article is that slavery and Jim Crow are cheap excuses for failures of today. As I pointed out in the story of my father, he got handed nothing but more challenges from his parents. You will find that most white people are the same way. And again, if anything is handed down, our generation will probably be the first for most whites.

Black are not getting less of an education, however blacks take much less advantage of it, and that's not our fault. If you took a middle-class white student body, and put them in these same low-income schools, they will continue to do fine. The black student body that got their school? They will continue to fail.

The school is not the failure, the parent is. When people shove their children on the school bus and that ends their educational involvement, of course you're going to get poorer results.

I've told this story before on USMB before, so if you read it already, skip over.

My former next door neighbor bought a portable basketball hoop. Before you knew it, kids were coming here from everywhere. They played from the time they came home from school until well past dark; sometimes to 10:00 pm. They tried to play later, but I told them to cut it out or called the police.

This didn't happen in the white neighborhood I grew up in. We were in the house well before dark. Our parents made sure our homework was done, we had a shower, and in bed at a reasonable enough time for ample sleep for the next school day. They knew where we were every minute, and it wasn't several streets away.

In other words, place the blame where it rightly belongs.

What you aren’t understanding is the difference between your parents and grandparents and their challenges vs those of generation old blacks who’s challenges were a direct result of our laws and government. Generations of discrimination by our system that resulted in poverty, low education, broken families, high crime and many other factors that impact the black population today. How can you gloss over all that as insignificant?

You admitted earlier that a child from an uneducated low income family has worse odds of achieving success than a child from a high income family. Well millions of blacks were stuffed into that low income bracket because of generations of racist laws made by our country. Take a second to think about that before reacting.

I've thought about it over and over again because the left keeps regurgitating this topic and has been for years.

If my parents (for whatever reason) were restricted in income, unable to provide us with the extras, kept us in low income housing, that's mostly the responsibility of my parents. Nobody should be having children they can't afford, or bringing them into the world of poverty or low income areas. That's personal responsibility.

But even if that was the case, it's up to me as an adult to overcome and do better than my parents. It's up to me to learn from their mistakes.

Can you explain to me how some foreigners come here, first generation, barely speaking the language, and do better than our blacks in America today? Who is more disadvantaged in your opinion, those foreigners who came here with twenty bucks in their pockets or our African Americans who's parents or grandparents were held back?

The beverage store I patron is owned by an Indian guy. He came here, worked night and day, opened up his own beverage store, and provided service no other competitor could. I never have to worry about him being out of the products I purchase. His personality, his attentiveness to customers needs, his hours all beat out his competition.

After he started doing well, he took on buying rental property which he still manages. On top of that, he purchased a small hotel outside of town about 40 miles, and it's doing fantastic as well. He and his wife seldom see each other because she quit working the beverage store to run the hotel.

If he can do this, why can't any other American including a black one?

If you are told by those in the media, those in government, those in education, those in entertainment again and again and again how much you are disadvantaged, how much you are oppressed, how much you are mistreated disrespected, being held back, being denied opportunity, are started out on so unlevel a playing field that you are victimized on every side, and you should be angry, resentful, and retaliatory because of it, a whole bunch of people will believe it and won't even try. And they will look to the powers to be to rescue them which of course isn[t going to happen because those powers need them to believe they are victims to keep those powers in power and increasing their own prestige, influence, and personal wealth.

True, this can be a problem and needs to be considered. But there are also many people out there working really hard to help the disadvantaged and the black community, there are many out there that are still being belittled and marginalized. It’s not a game of absolutes. Not everybody is entitled and gaming the system. Theres good work being done and there are also abuses. Both can and do exist

I don't take away from all the people out there trying to improve the lives of the disadvantaged, and I can assure you the the vast majority of those are not reinforcing a victim mentality in the people they are working with. I count myself as one of them. A few of us date back to the time that segregation of black people was condemned and stopped. I count myself as one of those too though I was very young at the time.

But nobody with any intellectual honesty is helping black people by telling them how victimized they are and how 'whitey' or the police or any other groups are keeping them down and make it impossible for them to reach for the American dream. Those who continue to convince black people how disadvantaged they are, especially those who do that to increase their own power, influence, and/or personal wealth, in my opinion are doing evil.

I agree that the sort of rhetoric you’re talking about is taken overboard by some and used at the detriment of the goal of progress. But I also see no problem in having an honest discussion and acknowledging history. Blacks were screwed by our country for generations. That is true. Acknowledging it is a good thing to do. Denying it starts polarizing race debates that do nothing good for our society

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

it's that blacks will work for less money. My handyman that I use is black, my exterminator is black. Why? Because I feel guilty? Because I'm afraid to hire whites? No, it's because they provide good work at a more than reasonable price.

You just ADMITTED that blacks are getting paid less...

Do you think they do that because they LIKE you?

They have no other CHOICE

Wait a minute......why would they have no other choice? They have businesses and compete with like businesses just like whites or any group do.

As far as the ones that work for our customers, they don't specify what race of people they want to hire. They simply say we pay X per hour for X job and it's up to the applicants if they want the job or not. If white people feel the pay is unsatisfactory, but blacks believe it's a fair offer, the white declines and the black accepts.

 

[Lesh]

it's that blacks will work for less money. My handyman that I use is black, my exterminator is black. Why? Because I feel guilty? Because I'm afraid to hire whites? No, it's because they provide good work at a more than reasonable price.

You just ADMITTED that blacks are getting paid less...

Do you think they do that because they LIKE you?

They have no other CHOICE

Wait a minute......why would they have no other choice? They have businesses and compete with like businesses just like whites or any group do.

As far as the ones that work for our customers, they don't specify what race of people they want to hire. They simply say we pay X per hour for X job and it's up to the applicants if they want the job or not. If white people feel the pay is unsatisfactory, but blacks believe it's a fair offer, the white declines and the black accepts.

We’ll these black folks you prefer to hire because you pay them less are clearly not doing so because they like you dummy

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

it's that blacks will work for less money. My handyman that I use is black, my exterminator is black. Why? Because I feel guilty? Because I'm afraid to hire whites? No, it's because they provide good work at a more than reasonable price.

You just ADMITTED that blacks are getting paid less...

Do you think they do that because they LIKE you?

They have no other CHOICE

Wait a minute......why would they have no other choice? They have businesses and compete with like businesses just like whites or any group do.

As far as the ones that work for our customers, they don't specify what race of people they want to hire. They simply say we pay X per hour for X job and it's up to the applicants if they want the job or not. If white people feel the pay is unsatisfactory, but blacks believe it's a fair offer, the white declines and the black accepts.

We’ll these black folks you prefer to hire because you pay them less are clearly not doing so because they like you dummy

No, they are doing so to get your business dummy. The electrician I use is a white guy who does great work for cheap. Like the black people I hire, he's loaded with so much work he doesn't know what to do with it. That's the result of giving a fair price for good work. It really isn't a race factor, it's a business factor.

 

[Damaged Eagle]

The difference between your poor parents, the foreigners with 20 bucks in their pockets and the disadvanged Blacks is the fact that only one of those groups was oppressed for generations by our government which resulted in their challenging position. Do you understand that?

View attachment 247985

So what you're saying is that government funding of Affirmative Action and other programs, which immigrants who came here after the Civil Rights Acts who never experienced all oppression and the 'challenging position' of blacks who's families have been here for generations, was not needed and should be paid back.

*****SMILE*****

No that’s what YOU are saying not me, you often confuse the two and have a hard time understanding what I’m actually saying. A little advice, just read my words, they aren’t complicated. Save the interpretations, you are wrong more often than not.

And learn how to answer direct questions. You’ve dodged the majority of question I’ve asked you. Can’t respect that

View attachment 247992

When did you answer the opening question in the OP?

*****CHUCKLE*****

Probably in my first post. I have no problem giving direct answers to direct questions. You should try it sometime.

Perhaps since I'm just so slow and to quote you an 'idiot' in your mind you should point out said answer out for all of us.

*****CHUCKLE*****

 

[Hale]

My ancestors fought for the Union in the Civil War. When can I expect my check?