Republican bill stops funding to states issuing DL's to illegals

[Ray From Cleveland]

We can't station troops at our border forever. And I never said they collect welfare, but their kids do. Trump can't stop that. Could you imagine even if he could, how the MSM would go nuts if some illegal immigrant kid would starve to death or not be treated at an emergency room? Look at all the grief the left gave him about kids dying at the border, and they did everything they could to save the kids.

A wall does the work of troops. But again, the Democrats are so hell bent against it because they would not be able to remove it once it's erected. Border walls and fences work everywhere they are tried. They will work here as well.

If you completed the entire wall, it would stop, maybe 10%. The other 90% would still be coming in through the legal entry points. I think the money would be better spent in getting the Courts to do a faster turn around in the Immigration courts. Put that money where it can be best spent. And get those Border Patrol off nanny duty and back on the border where they can do the most good. There is a reason Obama had a higher deportation rate. He had more boots on the ground and fewer boots baby sitting.

I seriously doubt the wall will only stop 10%. It will stop at least 90% of those who are crossing our border to get in. Again, Trump is working on the other entrance problems, particularly Visa's and green cards. If he can get the Democrats out of his way in November, it will improve that much more quickly.

It's already been covered in here. The Bulk of the Illegals entered through the ports of entry and either had fake papers or just overstayed their Visas. Sounds to me like the overstay of the Visa should be the easiest to fix.

There is no science on that. The only way to calculate how many people get in through the border is by the arrests made, but as we all know, that's only the arrests and there is no possible way to know how many made it through and got away with it.

With Visa's, it's easy to calculate how many didn't leave on expiration. They didn't turn their Visa's back in. It doesn't work that way on the border.

If the data doesn't jibe with your Orange Deities speeches then doubt the data. The Data is sound. Maybe not perfect but it's more perfect than just making up as you go and denying the data completely. Today, very few Mexican Nationals actually sneak into the US by way of illegal crossings outside the entry points. The majority of the crossings are from the countries south of mexico and most of those seek out the nearest Border Patrol and turn themselves in.

Of course, there are the Drug Smugglers. And even a 50 foot wall doesn't even slow them down. If they can't climb it, they just toss their packages over the wall and someone on the other side picks it up. Or they tunnel under the wall. '

Mexico has a shortage of workers right now in Central Mexico. Almost every qualified and able person coming up from the south are offered jobs. The Mexican National has very little reason to illegally cross these days. In the Industrial Areas, there aren't Drug Cartels since that would be very, very bad for business and the Uber Rich Mexicans will spend any amount of money to prevent that from happening. Don't judge all of Mexico by the Border regions. I have friends that live in central Mexico along the coast and there are no Drug Cartels or high crime in those areas. It's like condemning all of America for the high crime and drug neighborhoods in Chicago.

Most of the Mexican Nationals that re working illegally are repeat customers who get deported over and over again. Even the criminals are multi deported illegals. What draws them here? They have family here and can easily find work and have been doing it for nigh on 20 years or more. No wall is going to stop this type. Take away their ability to earn a living, make them hungry, cold, wet and Mexico will have jobs for them in a heart beat. But in order to deny them employment we have to bust the employers hard. No excuses, no exceptions unless the Employer is making an effort not to hire illegals.

Tunnels take months to construct. Is it better to just let them walk across the border, of make them dig month long tunnels to do the same.

Nobody ever claimed that walls will stop everybody. Our claim is that walls will stop most. As for estimates on how illegals get into this country, yes, most get in with Visa's. But again, the only calculation they otherwise have on border crossers are those who have been apprehending it while in the process. Look....I'll even use a very bias and pro-immigrant leftist source like NPR to prove my claim:

About 700,000 travelers to the United States overstayed their visas in fiscal 2017, the most recent year for which the Department of Homeland Security has published figures. DHS estimated that, as of Sept. 30, 2017, the end of that fiscal year, more than 600,000 of those travelers were still in the U.S.

During that same year, there were just 300,000 apprehensions along the Southern border, according to Customs and Border Protection — the lowest number since 1971.

Where Does Illegal Immigration Mostly Occur? Here's What The Data Tell Us

So according to NPR, the majority of people here do get in using Visa's. However, half of that number of people have been apprehended crossing the southern border--again, those are only the ones that got caught.

It's clear as day that a border wall would do a lot of good in the reduction of illegals entering the US. 300,000 is a lot of people even if we don't capture them all. So the wall would stop most of those 300,000, plus the ones that get into the country that were not apprehended or detected. I say the wall is well worth it even if we consider those 300,000 alone.

 

[JoeB131]

You pay 35% of a much lower amount as you make about 1/4th of what I do. In absolute dollars the rich do pay more. They also employ people so they pay that way as well. The problem is not the rich, the problem is people having kids they cannot afford and the Govt subsidizing that stupid practice.

First, nobody really believes you make that much.
Secondly, the rich aren't paying anywhere near their fair share.
Third, the rich don't create jobs. We had VASTLY greater prosperity when the rich paid their fair share prior to that idiot, Ronald Reagan.
Fourth, nobody is having "government subsidized kids". most people on assistance are only on it for a couple of years. Most people who get programs like Section 8, SNAP, Medicaid have jobs.

So while the rich are getting rich off their labor, the rest of us are subsidizing their cheap labor and wondering why people are voting for Bernie.

You didn't think this through at all, did you?

 

[AzogtheDefiler]

You pay 35% of a much lower amount as you make about 1/4th of what I do. In absolute dollars the rich do pay more. They also employ people so they pay that way as well. The problem is not the rich, the problem is people having kids they cannot afford and the Govt subsidizing that stupid practice.

First, nobody really believes you make that much.
Secondly, the rich aren't paying anywhere near their fair share.
Third, the rich don't create jobs. We had VASTLY greater prosperity when the rich paid their fair share prior to that idiot, Ronald Reagan.
Fourth, nobody is having "government subsidized kids". most people on assistance are only on it for a couple of years. Most people who get programs like Section 8, SNAP, Medicaid have jobs.

So while the rich are getting rich off their labor, the rest of us are subsidizing their cheap labor and wondering why people are voting for Bernie.

You didn't think this through at all, did you?

That much? It’s not that much. You just make that little. Google the average price of a house in Brookline MA. What is “fair share”? You throw that term out there constantly and never define it. I never said create but they pay more in RE, excise, income and sundry taxes as they buy more expensive goods. They also hire landscapers, plumbers, contractors, pool maintenance workers, etc. Rich pay more than their “fair share”. You’re not subsidizing anything. Again, 35% of what I make is a lot more than 35% of what you make.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

You pay 35% of a much lower amount as you make about 1/4th of what I do. In absolute dollars the rich do pay more. They also employ people so they pay that way as well. The problem is not the rich, the problem is people having kids they cannot afford and the Govt subsidizing that stupid practice.

First, nobody really believes you make that much.
Secondly, the rich aren't paying anywhere near their fair share.
Third, the rich don't create jobs. We had VASTLY greater prosperity when the rich paid their fair share prior to that idiot, Ronald Reagan.
Fourth, nobody is having "government subsidized kids". most people on assistance are only on it for a couple of years. Most people who get programs like Section 8, SNAP, Medicaid have jobs.

So while the rich are getting rich off their labor, the rest of us are subsidizing their cheap labor and wondering why people are voting for Bernie.

You didn't think this through at all, did you?

The top 20% of wage earners in this country pay over 80% of all collected income taxes. If that's not their fair share, then what is? Give me a percentage you think is fair. I always ask leftists this question, but never seem to get an answer.

If the rich don't create jobs, then tell me how many job offers are out there from poor people. My employer is not rich, but guess where he gets his business from? That's right, rich people that own the much bigger companies he deals with.

Yes, when you have children you can't afford, work part-time and get public assistance, taxpayers are subsidizing their bad decisions in life. Nobody has to have children. One of the reasons I never had kids is because of the expense. People have children while on welfare. If it were up to me, nobody would get welfare unless they were fixed first. Working people have to limit the size of their family. Non-working people don't. They have as many children as they desire because they don't have to pay for them. The more children they have, the larger HUD house in the suburb they get.

 

[Daryl Hunt]

And how can an Illegal do that if they have no right to employment? Yah, they are going to go into court in front of a judge and plea that case? ICE will be waiting in the hallway.

Not if they are in a sanctuary city or state. ICE has to be contacted which the Democrat strongholds refuse to do. In fact, they even warn illegals when ICE plans on raiding companies.

Court Rules Illegal Aliens Can Sue over “Discriminatory Employment Policy” Requiring Green Cards - Judicial Watch

You left out something. "Iawfully present aliens" is another way of saying DACA which is eligible for employment. DACA is not considered an Illegal Alien according to the Supreme Court. Try again, this time , find me something where a REAL Illegal Immigrant can sue if you don't hire them.

You mean you don't believe the Judicial Watch report? You didn't even read it. I can tell by how quickly you responded.

If YOU had read it, you would have read the "Lawful Present Aliens" in your own cite. YOU didn't read your own cite but I did. Now, how about coming up with a case of a real "Illegal Immigrant" that has successfully sued like that. DACA people are authorized to work in the US pending a resolve by Congress for the DACA.

Where did I state anybody successfully sued an employer? I only provided evidence that it is possible and supported by a court. While it may have never happened.....yet, it's something employers who are in a highly populated areas of immigrants have to take into consideration when they are deciding on hiring applicants they believe may not be legal in this country.

My point here is that it's wrong to place all the burden on the employer alone. They are in a bad situation.

They are in about the best situation they can be in. They can hire at a lower wage, fewer benefits, workers that are illegal with no repercussions what so ever. Again, just do a follow up with the Social Security Number. If a program is not in place to do so then we need one put in place to do so. Just having that little blue card should not be enough since there is just way too much fraud.

One of the things founds by interviewing the ex workers from Jaimaica, at Mara-a-Largo, during it's construction, the HR department was very aware that many were undocumented workers. They helped them fake the paperwork to scam the system. When the construction was done, they were sent back to the Island and forgotten about. They workers were paid well below what any US Worker would have been paid. Even knowing this, what does the Government do about it? Nothing. But if ICE caught wind of it, the workers would have been deported and still nothing would have been done about it. So don't tell me that the Employers are in a bad way.

Or how about that Chicken Processing Plant in GA. Ice raided the place and over 100 undocumented workers were arrested and deported. If ICE can figure it out, so can the employer. What happens? The current crew of undocumented workers are departed and the next batch of undocumented workers are brought in. This isn't an exception, it's the norm.

I worked as a Manager for a United Moving and Storage Company. We had a Lupi Sanchez working there. I knew him from long ago. He was born and raised in my home town. We also had 4 other Lupi Sanchez's working there as well who didn't speak english and had to work with Lupi on the crew. Their Birch Certificates were copies of the original Lupi's but they had different SS numbers. One would have to be a complete idiot not to believe that they were illegal aliens. And there are hundreds of thousands of employers that play that game.

Here are the penalties that an Employer MAY be leveled

Penalties

There is no mention of Prosecution at all. it's all put on the Employed, not the employer. Yes, it's illegal to hire them knowingly but there is no real penalty. And that is the problem. There is nothing to stop the Employer to continue doing it over and over outside of having ICE opening a choak and puke right outside the front entrance.

 

[Daryl Hunt]

If you completed the entire wall, it would stop, maybe 10%. The other 90% would still be coming in through the legal entry points. I think the money would be better spent in getting the Courts to do a faster turn around in the Immigration courts. Put that money where it can be best spent. And get those Border Patrol off nanny duty and back on the border where they can do the most good. There is a reason Obama had a higher deportation rate. He had more boots on the ground and fewer boots baby sitting.

I seriously doubt the wall will only stop 10%. It will stop at least 90% of those who are crossing our border to get in. Again, Trump is working on the other entrance problems, particularly Visa's and green cards. If he can get the Democrats out of his way in November, it will improve that much more quickly.

It's already been covered in here. The Bulk of the Illegals entered through the ports of entry and either had fake papers or just overstayed their Visas. Sounds to me like the overstay of the Visa should be the easiest to fix.

There is no science on that. The only way to calculate how many people get in through the border is by the arrests made, but as we all know, that's only the arrests and there is no possible way to know how many made it through and got away with it.

With Visa's, it's easy to calculate how many didn't leave on expiration. They didn't turn their Visa's back in. It doesn't work that way on the border.

If the data doesn't jibe with your Orange Deities speeches then doubt the data. The Data is sound. Maybe not perfect but it's more perfect than just making up as you go and denying the data completely. Today, very few Mexican Nationals actually sneak into the US by way of illegal crossings outside the entry points. The majority of the crossings are from the countries south of mexico and most of those seek out the nearest Border Patrol and turn themselves in.

Of course, there are the Drug Smugglers. And even a 50 foot wall doesn't even slow them down. If they can't climb it, they just toss their packages over the wall and someone on the other side picks it up. Or they tunnel under the wall. '

Mexico has a shortage of workers right now in Central Mexico. Almost every qualified and able person coming up from the south are offered jobs. The Mexican National has very little reason to illegally cross these days. In the Industrial Areas, there aren't Drug Cartels since that would be very, very bad for business and the Uber Rich Mexicans will spend any amount of money to prevent that from happening. Don't judge all of Mexico by the Border regions. I have friends that live in central Mexico along the coast and there are no Drug Cartels or high crime in those areas. It's like condemning all of America for the high crime and drug neighborhoods in Chicago.

Most of the Mexican Nationals that re working illegally are repeat customers who get deported over and over again. Even the criminals are multi deported illegals. What draws them here? They have family here and can easily find work and have been doing it for nigh on 20 years or more. No wall is going to stop this type. Take away their ability to earn a living, make them hungry, cold, wet and Mexico will have jobs for them in a heart beat. But in order to deny them employment we have to bust the employers hard. No excuses, no exceptions unless the Employer is making an effort not to hire illegals.

Tunnels take months to construct. Is it better to just let them walk across the border, of make them dig month long tunnels to do the same.

Nobody ever claimed that walls will stop everybody. Our claim is that walls will stop most. As for estimates on how illegals get into this country, yes, most get in with Visa's. But again, the only calculation they otherwise have on border crossers are those who have been apprehending it while in the process. Look....I'll even use a very bias and pro-immigrant leftist source like NPR to prove my claim:

About 700,000 travelers to the United States overstayed their visas in fiscal 2017, the most recent year for which the Department of Homeland Security has published figures. DHS estimated that, as of Sept. 30, 2017, the end of that fiscal year, more than 600,000 of those travelers were still in the U.S.

During that same year, there were just 300,000 apprehensions along the Southern border, according to Customs and Border Protection — the lowest number since 1971.

Where Does Illegal Immigration Mostly Occur? Here's What The Data Tell Us

So according to NPR, the majority of people here do get in using Visa's. However, half of that number of people have been apprehended crossing the southern border--again, those are only the ones that got caught.

It's clear as day that a border wall would do a lot of good in the reduction of illegals entering the US. 300,000 is a lot of people even if we don't capture them all. So the wall would stop most of those 300,000, plus the ones that get into the country that were not apprehended or detected. I say the wall is well worth it even if we consider those 300,000 alone.

You keep saying "Wall, Wall, Wall, Wall". The fact is the Wall only works in about 800 miles total of the entire almost 2000 mile border. And 733 of it has already been built. Yes, it needs repair and replacement in many areas. The "Wall" only lasts about 10 years before it needs to be repaired or replaced so it's an ongoing program. But when you try and build past that amount then you are wasting good money when far cheaper methods can be used that are even more effective. And we both know what those methods are so let's not play stupid here and discuss the. And let's not keep screaming "Wall, Wall, Wall, Wall" either because that's stupid as well.

 

[WEATHER53]

Fair share is another vague liberal feeling thing.

 

[WEATHER53]

Illegals fair share is they pay $10,000
Nationalization fee payable 1,000 per year for 10 years. Reduces defecit, no real income stress to them, all nice and fair share stuff

 

[Bootney Lee Farnsworth]

If you completed the entire wall, it would stop, maybe 10%. The other 90% would still be coming in through the legal entry points.

Let me show you these maps again:

That 300-mile stretch from the gulf to Laredo is pretty much wide open territory with no barrier and it is not hard terrain to walk across. 90% of illegal crossings happen right there and WE (Texans) are not allowed to do a goddamn thing about it but take it up the ass, thanks to our useless Federal Government.

Sorry. We need a HUGE FUCKING WALL from the Gulf to the bottom point of Big Bend.

.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

I seriously doubt the wall will only stop 10%. It will stop at least 90% of those who are crossing our border to get in. Again, Trump is working on the other entrance problems, particularly Visa's and green cards. If he can get the Democrats out of his way in November, it will improve that much more quickly.

It's already been covered in here. The Bulk of the Illegals entered through the ports of entry and either had fake papers or just overstayed their Visas. Sounds to me like the overstay of the Visa should be the easiest to fix.

There is no science on that. The only way to calculate how many people get in through the border is by the arrests made, but as we all know, that's only the arrests and there is no possible way to know how many made it through and got away with it.

With Visa's, it's easy to calculate how many didn't leave on expiration. They didn't turn their Visa's back in. It doesn't work that way on the border.

If the data doesn't jibe with your Orange Deities speeches then doubt the data. The Data is sound. Maybe not perfect but it's more perfect than just making up as you go and denying the data completely. Today, very few Mexican Nationals actually sneak into the US by way of illegal crossings outside the entry points. The majority of the crossings are from the countries south of mexico and most of those seek out the nearest Border Patrol and turn themselves in.

Of course, there are the Drug Smugglers. And even a 50 foot wall doesn't even slow them down. If they can't climb it, they just toss their packages over the wall and someone on the other side picks it up. Or they tunnel under the wall. '

Mexico has a shortage of workers right now in Central Mexico. Almost every qualified and able person coming up from the south are offered jobs. The Mexican National has very little reason to illegally cross these days. In the Industrial Areas, there aren't Drug Cartels since that would be very, very bad for business and the Uber Rich Mexicans will spend any amount of money to prevent that from happening. Don't judge all of Mexico by the Border regions. I have friends that live in central Mexico along the coast and there are no Drug Cartels or high crime in those areas. It's like condemning all of America for the high crime and drug neighborhoods in Chicago.

Most of the Mexican Nationals that re working illegally are repeat customers who get deported over and over again. Even the criminals are multi deported illegals. What draws them here? They have family here and can easily find work and have been doing it for nigh on 20 years or more. No wall is going to stop this type. Take away their ability to earn a living, make them hungry, cold, wet and Mexico will have jobs for them in a heart beat. But in order to deny them employment we have to bust the employers hard. No excuses, no exceptions unless the Employer is making an effort not to hire illegals.

Tunnels take months to construct. Is it better to just let them walk across the border, of make them dig month long tunnels to do the same.

Nobody ever claimed that walls will stop everybody. Our claim is that walls will stop most. As for estimates on how illegals get into this country, yes, most get in with Visa's. But again, the only calculation they otherwise have on border crossers are those who have been apprehending it while in the process. Look....I'll even use a very bias and pro-immigrant leftist source like NPR to prove my claim:

About 700,000 travelers to the United States overstayed their visas in fiscal 2017, the most recent year for which the Department of Homeland Security has published figures. DHS estimated that, as of Sept. 30, 2017, the end of that fiscal year, more than 600,000 of those travelers were still in the U.S.

During that same year, there were just 300,000 apprehensions along the Southern border, according to Customs and Border Protection — the lowest number since 1971.

Where Does Illegal Immigration Mostly Occur? Here's What The Data Tell Us

So according to NPR, the majority of people here do get in using Visa's. However, half of that number of people have been apprehended crossing the southern border--again, those are only the ones that got caught.

It's clear as day that a border wall would do a lot of good in the reduction of illegals entering the US. 300,000 is a lot of people even if we don't capture them all. So the wall would stop most of those 300,000, plus the ones that get into the country that were not apprehended or detected. I say the wall is well worth it even if we consider those 300,000 alone.

You keep saying "Wall, Wall, Wall, Wall". The fact is the Wall only works in about 800 miles total of the entire almost 2000 mile border. And 733 of it has already been built. Yes, it needs repair and replacement in many areas. The "Wall" only lasts about 10 years before it needs to be repaired or replaced so it's an ongoing program. But when you try and build past that amount then you are wasting good money when far cheaper methods can be used that are even more effective. And we both know what those methods are so let's not play stupid here and discuss the. And let's not keep screaming "Wall, Wall, Wall, Wall" either because that's stupid as well.

Did you ever see some of those so-called walls that need repair all the time? I could have climbed one of those when I was 10. They are just eight foot high sheet metal structures only for symbolism. They are virtually worthless. The new walls that Trump decided on by the suggestion of the border patrol are 30 foot high steel posts filled with concrete. They decided on that design so that border patrol can see somebody approaching the wall to make an attempt to get over. That gives them time to respond and stop them before they get over, or to delay them long enough to arrest them should they actually breach the wall.

I don't see much in the way of maintenance or repair since nobody is going to cut through cement filled steel. And no, I don't know of anyway cheaper to do it, or be more efficient. What the wall will cost us is about what we spend on food stamps for a little over half a month. Given the fact it's an investment that will payoff itself, it's well worth it to me.

Any other method used can be reversed by the Democrats if they ever gain power again. But a wall is there forever. They can't reverse that without making their intentions known, and risk losing power to Republicans again, not to mention the expense of removal. That's why they fill your head up with these lies that a wall is useless. If they really believed that, they would let Trump have his wall with their blessings. But they know how effective it will be, and that they would have no power to remove it once erected.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Not if they are in a sanctuary city or state. ICE has to be contacted which the Democrat strongholds refuse to do. In fact, they even warn illegals when ICE plans on raiding companies.

Court Rules Illegal Aliens Can Sue over “Discriminatory Employment Policy” Requiring Green Cards - Judicial Watch

You left out something. "Iawfully present aliens" is another way of saying DACA which is eligible for employment. DACA is not considered an Illegal Alien according to the Supreme Court. Try again, this time , find me something where a REAL Illegal Immigrant can sue if you don't hire them.

You mean you don't believe the Judicial Watch report? You didn't even read it. I can tell by how quickly you responded.

If YOU had read it, you would have read the "Lawful Present Aliens" in your own cite. YOU didn't read your own cite but I did. Now, how about coming up with a case of a real "Illegal Immigrant" that has successfully sued like that. DACA people are authorized to work in the US pending a resolve by Congress for the DACA.

Where did I state anybody successfully sued an employer? I only provided evidence that it is possible and supported by a court. While it may have never happened.....yet, it's something employers who are in a highly populated areas of immigrants have to take into consideration when they are deciding on hiring applicants they believe may not be legal in this country.

My point here is that it's wrong to place all the burden on the employer alone. They are in a bad situation.

They are in about the best situation they can be in. They can hire at a lower wage, fewer benefits, workers that are illegal with no repercussions what so ever. Again, just do a follow up with the Social Security Number. If a program is not in place to do so then we need one put in place to do so. Just having that little blue card should not be enough since there is just way too much fraud.

One of the things founds by interviewing the ex workers from Jaimaica, at Mara-a-Largo, during it's construction, the HR department was very aware that many were undocumented workers. They helped them fake the paperwork to scam the system. When the construction was done, they were sent back to the Island and forgotten about. They workers were paid well below what any US Worker would have been paid. Even knowing this, what does the Government do about it? Nothing. But if ICE caught wind of it, the workers would have been deported and still nothing would have been done about it. So don't tell me that the Employers are in a bad way.

Or how about that Chicken Processing Plant in GA. Ice raided the place and over 100 undocumented workers were arrested and deported. If ICE can figure it out, so can the employer. What happens? The current crew of undocumented workers are departed and the next batch of undocumented workers are brought in. This isn't an exception, it's the norm.

I worked as a Manager for a United Moving and Storage Company. We had a Lupi Sanchez working there. I knew him from long ago. He was born and raised in my home town. We also had 4 other Lupi Sanchez's working there as well who didn't speak english and had to work with Lupi on the crew. Their Birch Certificates were copies of the original Lupi's but they had different SS numbers. One would have to be a complete idiot not to believe that they were illegal aliens. And there are hundreds of thousands of employers that play that game.

Here are the penalties that an Employer MAY be leveled

Penalties

There is no mention of Prosecution at all. it's all put on the Employed, not the employer. Yes, it's illegal to hire them knowingly but there is no real penalty. And that is the problem. There is nothing to stop the Employer to continue doing it over and over outside of having ICE opening a choak and puke right outside the front entrance.

Web of illegal immigration, fake IDs unraveled for workers at Amish-area chicken plant in Ohio

Fake ID market bypasses anti-fraud measures | TechRadar

 

[Daryl Hunt]

It's already been covered in here. The Bulk of the Illegals entered through the ports of entry and either had fake papers or just overstayed their Visas. Sounds to me like the overstay of the Visa should be the easiest to fix.

There is no science on that. The only way to calculate how many people get in through the border is by the arrests made, but as we all know, that's only the arrests and there is no possible way to know how many made it through and got away with it.

With Visa's, it's easy to calculate how many didn't leave on expiration. They didn't turn their Visa's back in. It doesn't work that way on the border.

If the data doesn't jibe with your Orange Deities speeches then doubt the data. The Data is sound. Maybe not perfect but it's more perfect than just making up as you go and denying the data completely. Today, very few Mexican Nationals actually sneak into the US by way of illegal crossings outside the entry points. The majority of the crossings are from the countries south of mexico and most of those seek out the nearest Border Patrol and turn themselves in.

Of course, there are the Drug Smugglers. And even a 50 foot wall doesn't even slow them down. If they can't climb it, they just toss their packages over the wall and someone on the other side picks it up. Or they tunnel under the wall. '

Mexico has a shortage of workers right now in Central Mexico. Almost every qualified and able person coming up from the south are offered jobs. The Mexican National has very little reason to illegally cross these days. In the Industrial Areas, there aren't Drug Cartels since that would be very, very bad for business and the Uber Rich Mexicans will spend any amount of money to prevent that from happening. Don't judge all of Mexico by the Border regions. I have friends that live in central Mexico along the coast and there are no Drug Cartels or high crime in those areas. It's like condemning all of America for the high crime and drug neighborhoods in Chicago.

Most of the Mexican Nationals that re working illegally are repeat customers who get deported over and over again. Even the criminals are multi deported illegals. What draws them here? They have family here and can easily find work and have been doing it for nigh on 20 years or more. No wall is going to stop this type. Take away their ability to earn a living, make them hungry, cold, wet and Mexico will have jobs for them in a heart beat. But in order to deny them employment we have to bust the employers hard. No excuses, no exceptions unless the Employer is making an effort not to hire illegals.

Tunnels take months to construct. Is it better to just let them walk across the border, of make them dig month long tunnels to do the same.

Nobody ever claimed that walls will stop everybody. Our claim is that walls will stop most. As for estimates on how illegals get into this country, yes, most get in with Visa's. But again, the only calculation they otherwise have on border crossers are those who have been apprehending it while in the process. Look....I'll even use a very bias and pro-immigrant leftist source like NPR to prove my claim:

About 700,000 travelers to the United States overstayed their visas in fiscal 2017, the most recent year for which the Department of Homeland Security has published figures. DHS estimated that, as of Sept. 30, 2017, the end of that fiscal year, more than 600,000 of those travelers were still in the U.S.

During that same year, there were just 300,000 apprehensions along the Southern border, according to Customs and Border Protection — the lowest number since 1971.

Where Does Illegal Immigration Mostly Occur? Here's What The Data Tell Us

So according to NPR, the majority of people here do get in using Visa's. However, half of that number of people have been apprehended crossing the southern border--again, those are only the ones that got caught.

It's clear as day that a border wall would do a lot of good in the reduction of illegals entering the US. 300,000 is a lot of people even if we don't capture them all. So the wall would stop most of those 300,000, plus the ones that get into the country that were not apprehended or detected. I say the wall is well worth it even if we consider those 300,000 alone.

You keep saying "Wall, Wall, Wall, Wall". The fact is the Wall only works in about 800 miles total of the entire almost 2000 mile border. And 733 of it has already been built. Yes, it needs repair and replacement in many areas. The "Wall" only lasts about 10 years before it needs to be repaired or replaced so it's an ongoing program. But when you try and build past that amount then you are wasting good money when far cheaper methods can be used that are even more effective. And we both know what those methods are so let's not play stupid here and discuss the. And let's not keep screaming "Wall, Wall, Wall, Wall" either because that's stupid as well.

Did you ever see some of those so-called walls that need repair all the time? I could have climbed one of those when I was 10. They are just eight foot high sheet metal structures only for symbolism. They are virtually worthless. The new walls that Trump decided on by the suggestion of the border patrol are 30 foot high steel posts filled with concrete. They decided on that design so that border patrol can see somebody approaching the wall to make an attempt to get over. That gives them time to respond and stop them before they get over, or to delay them long enough to arrest them should they actually breach the wall.

I don't see much in the way of maintenance or repair since nobody is going to cut through cement filled steel. And no, I don't know of anyway cheaper to do it, or be more efficient. What the wall will cost us is about what we spend on food stamps for a little over half a month. Given the fact it's an investment that will payoff itself, it's well worth it to me.

Any other method used can be reversed by the Democrats if they ever gain power again. But a wall is there forever. They can't reverse that without making their intentions known, and risk losing power to Republicans again, not to mention the expense of removal. That's why they fill your head up with these lies that a wall is useless. If they really believed that, they would let Trump have his wall with their blessings. But they know how effective it will be, and that they would have no power to remove it once erected.

There you go again. "They" don't fill my head with anything. I've lived in the desert regions in the Southwest. I've lived in the Rocky Mountains. I've lived in the Canyon regions.

In the Rocky Mountain and Canyon Regions there will be NO WALLS ever. You think they are expensive to place around El Paso or Sand Diego? It would be hundreds of billions per mile to place them in the Rockies and Canyon areas. And the disruption for the environment would be out of sight. I know Rump doesn't care about environment impacts but danged, it would be devastating. And besides, that billion dollar wall per mile wouldn't make it past 10 years in many areas before mother nature does her thing.

In the Desert Areas, putting that wall up is a huge waste of money. You can see for 20 miles. There is a reason that illegals don't come up that way. They won't make it. Those that try and live only make it because some Border Patrol comes buy and rescues them before they expire from the elements. Mother Nature put her own version of the wall up already. Put the boots back onto the ground to save lives like it used to be. And yes, the Coyotes do take people that route only so far. They dump them. The traveler won't make it unless the Border Patrol can get to them in time. Pulling Border Patrol off to go baby sit somewhere else doesn't mean more will get through. It will only mean more will die trying to make it.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

There is no science on that. The only way to calculate how many people get in through the border is by the arrests made, but as we all know, that's only the arrests and there is no possible way to know how many made it through and got away with it.

With Visa's, it's easy to calculate how many didn't leave on expiration. They didn't turn their Visa's back in. It doesn't work that way on the border.

If the data doesn't jibe with your Orange Deities speeches then doubt the data. The Data is sound. Maybe not perfect but it's more perfect than just making up as you go and denying the data completely. Today, very few Mexican Nationals actually sneak into the US by way of illegal crossings outside the entry points. The majority of the crossings are from the countries south of mexico and most of those seek out the nearest Border Patrol and turn themselves in.

Of course, there are the Drug Smugglers. And even a 50 foot wall doesn't even slow them down. If they can't climb it, they just toss their packages over the wall and someone on the other side picks it up. Or they tunnel under the wall. '

Mexico has a shortage of workers right now in Central Mexico. Almost every qualified and able person coming up from the south are offered jobs. The Mexican National has very little reason to illegally cross these days. In the Industrial Areas, there aren't Drug Cartels since that would be very, very bad for business and the Uber Rich Mexicans will spend any amount of money to prevent that from happening. Don't judge all of Mexico by the Border regions. I have friends that live in central Mexico along the coast and there are no Drug Cartels or high crime in those areas. It's like condemning all of America for the high crime and drug neighborhoods in Chicago.

Most of the Mexican Nationals that re working illegally are repeat customers who get deported over and over again. Even the criminals are multi deported illegals. What draws them here? They have family here and can easily find work and have been doing it for nigh on 20 years or more. No wall is going to stop this type. Take away their ability to earn a living, make them hungry, cold, wet and Mexico will have jobs for them in a heart beat. But in order to deny them employment we have to bust the employers hard. No excuses, no exceptions unless the Employer is making an effort not to hire illegals.

Tunnels take months to construct. Is it better to just let them walk across the border, of make them dig month long tunnels to do the same.

Nobody ever claimed that walls will stop everybody. Our claim is that walls will stop most. As for estimates on how illegals get into this country, yes, most get in with Visa's. But again, the only calculation they otherwise have on border crossers are those who have been apprehending it while in the process. Look....I'll even use a very bias and pro-immigrant leftist source like NPR to prove my claim:

About 700,000 travelers to the United States overstayed their visas in fiscal 2017, the most recent year for which the Department of Homeland Security has published figures. DHS estimated that, as of Sept. 30, 2017, the end of that fiscal year, more than 600,000 of those travelers were still in the U.S.

During that same year, there were just 300,000 apprehensions along the Southern border, according to Customs and Border Protection — the lowest number since 1971.

Where Does Illegal Immigration Mostly Occur? Here's What The Data Tell Us

So according to NPR, the majority of people here do get in using Visa's. However, half of that number of people have been apprehended crossing the southern border--again, those are only the ones that got caught.

It's clear as day that a border wall would do a lot of good in the reduction of illegals entering the US. 300,000 is a lot of people even if we don't capture them all. So the wall would stop most of those 300,000, plus the ones that get into the country that were not apprehended or detected. I say the wall is well worth it even if we consider those 300,000 alone.

You keep saying "Wall, Wall, Wall, Wall". The fact is the Wall only works in about 800 miles total of the entire almost 2000 mile border. And 733 of it has already been built. Yes, it needs repair and replacement in many areas. The "Wall" only lasts about 10 years before it needs to be repaired or replaced so it's an ongoing program. But when you try and build past that amount then you are wasting good money when far cheaper methods can be used that are even more effective. And we both know what those methods are so let's not play stupid here and discuss the. And let's not keep screaming "Wall, Wall, Wall, Wall" either because that's stupid as well.

Did you ever see some of those so-called walls that need repair all the time? I could have climbed one of those when I was 10. They are just eight foot high sheet metal structures only for symbolism. They are virtually worthless. The new walls that Trump decided on by the suggestion of the border patrol are 30 foot high steel posts filled with concrete. They decided on that design so that border patrol can see somebody approaching the wall to make an attempt to get over. That gives them time to respond and stop them before they get over, or to delay them long enough to arrest them should they actually breach the wall.

I don't see much in the way of maintenance or repair since nobody is going to cut through cement filled steel. And no, I don't know of anyway cheaper to do it, or be more efficient. What the wall will cost us is about what we spend on food stamps for a little over half a month. Given the fact it's an investment that will payoff itself, it's well worth it to me.

Any other method used can be reversed by the Democrats if they ever gain power again. But a wall is there forever. They can't reverse that without making their intentions known, and risk losing power to Republicans again, not to mention the expense of removal. That's why they fill your head up with these lies that a wall is useless. If they really believed that, they would let Trump have his wall with their blessings. But they know how effective it will be, and that they would have no power to remove it once erected.

There you go again. "They" don't fill my head with anything. I've lived in the desert regions in the Southwest. I've lived in the Rocky Mountains. I've lived in the Canyon regions.

In the Rocky Mountain and Canyon Regions there will be NO WALLS ever. You think they are expensive to place around El Paso or Sand Diego? It would be hundreds of billions per mile to place them in the Rockies and Canyon areas. And the disruption for the environment would be out of sight. I know Rump doesn't care about environment impacts but danged, it would be devastating. And besides, that billion dollar wall per mile wouldn't make it past 10 years in many areas before mother nature does her thing.

In the Desert Areas, putting that wall up is a huge waste of money. You can see for 20 miles. There is a reason that illegals don't come up that way. They won't make it. Those that try and live only make it because some Border Patrol comes buy and rescues them before they expire from the elements. Mother Nature put her own version of the wall up already. Put the boots back onto the ground to save lives like it used to be. And yes, the Coyotes do take people that route only so far. They dump them. The traveler won't make it unless the Border Patrol can get to them in time. Pulling Border Patrol off to go baby sit somewhere else doesn't mean more will get through. It will only mean more will die trying to make it.

Trump stated that a wall is not practical everywhere. Some areas have natural barriers where walls would be fruitless. But I'll trust Trump and the border patrol to tell us how best to secure this country, not a bunch of Democrats scared to death of something that will actually work.

You get most of your talking points from Democrats. As for the environment:

Trump signed the largest U.S. wilderness protection bill in a decade, designates 375,000 new acres of protected land

Report: U.S. Led All Countries in Reducing CO2 Emissions in 2019

 

[Daryl Hunt]

You left out something. "Iawfully present aliens" is another way of saying DACA which is eligible for employment. DACA is not considered an Illegal Alien according to the Supreme Court. Try again, this time , find me something where a REAL Illegal Immigrant can sue if you don't hire them.

You mean you don't believe the Judicial Watch report? You didn't even read it. I can tell by how quickly you responded.

If YOU had read it, you would have read the "Lawful Present Aliens" in your own cite. YOU didn't read your own cite but I did. Now, how about coming up with a case of a real "Illegal Immigrant" that has successfully sued like that. DACA people are authorized to work in the US pending a resolve by Congress for the DACA.

Where did I state anybody successfully sued an employer? I only provided evidence that it is possible and supported by a court. While it may have never happened.....yet, it's something employers who are in a highly populated areas of immigrants have to take into consideration when they are deciding on hiring applicants they believe may not be legal in this country.

My point here is that it's wrong to place all the burden on the employer alone. They are in a bad situation.

They are in about the best situation they can be in. They can hire at a lower wage, fewer benefits, workers that are illegal with no repercussions what so ever. Again, just do a follow up with the Social Security Number. If a program is not in place to do so then we need one put in place to do so. Just having that little blue card should not be enough since there is just way too much fraud.

One of the things founds by interviewing the ex workers from Jaimaica, at Mara-a-Largo, during it's construction, the HR department was very aware that many were undocumented workers. They helped them fake the paperwork to scam the system. When the construction was done, they were sent back to the Island and forgotten about. They workers were paid well below what any US Worker would have been paid. Even knowing this, what does the Government do about it? Nothing. But if ICE caught wind of it, the workers would have been deported and still nothing would have been done about it. So don't tell me that the Employers are in a bad way.

Or how about that Chicken Processing Plant in GA. Ice raided the place and over 100 undocumented workers were arrested and deported. If ICE can figure it out, so can the employer. What happens? The current crew of undocumented workers are departed and the next batch of undocumented workers are brought in. This isn't an exception, it's the norm.

I worked as a Manager for a United Moving and Storage Company. We had a Lupi Sanchez working there. I knew him from long ago. He was born and raised in my home town. We also had 4 other Lupi Sanchez's working there as well who didn't speak english and had to work with Lupi on the crew. Their Birch Certificates were copies of the original Lupi's but they had different SS numbers. One would have to be a complete idiot not to believe that they were illegal aliens. And there are hundreds of thousands of employers that play that game.

Here are the penalties that an Employer MAY be leveled

Penalties

There is no mention of Prosecution at all. it's all put on the Employed, not the employer. Yes, it's illegal to hire them knowingly but there is no real penalty. And that is the problem. There is nothing to stop the Employer to continue doing it over and over outside of having ICE opening a choak and puke right outside the front entrance.

Web of illegal immigration, fake IDs unraveled for workers at Amish-area chicken plant in Ohio

Fake ID market bypasses anti-fraud measures | TechRadar

Once upon a time, a new IDentity cost about 300 bucks. It bought a Birth Certificate from a baby that died not long after birth of about the same age. Using that, it established a Social Security Number and the and then a Drivers License. Presto Chango, you get to be a new person. The problem is, the birth records aren't necessarily cross checked with the death records in many places even today. I imagine that the price has gone up. There are people and organizations that make good livings providing these services. And retrieving that original birth certificate is NOT illegal. It's public record. What's done with it IS illegal though.

You keep bringing up the exception to the norm. This person is a lifelong criminal who knows how to cheat the system and has cheated it over and over. The normal Illegal doesn't have the contacts now the knowledge to do this.

 

[Daryl Hunt]

If the data doesn't jibe with your Orange Deities speeches then doubt the data. The Data is sound. Maybe not perfect but it's more perfect than just making up as you go and denying the data completely. Today, very few Mexican Nationals actually sneak into the US by way of illegal crossings outside the entry points. The majority of the crossings are from the countries south of mexico and most of those seek out the nearest Border Patrol and turn themselves in.

Of course, there are the Drug Smugglers. And even a 50 foot wall doesn't even slow them down. If they can't climb it, they just toss their packages over the wall and someone on the other side picks it up. Or they tunnel under the wall. '

Mexico has a shortage of workers right now in Central Mexico. Almost every qualified and able person coming up from the south are offered jobs. The Mexican National has very little reason to illegally cross these days. In the Industrial Areas, there aren't Drug Cartels since that would be very, very bad for business and the Uber Rich Mexicans will spend any amount of money to prevent that from happening. Don't judge all of Mexico by the Border regions. I have friends that live in central Mexico along the coast and there are no Drug Cartels or high crime in those areas. It's like condemning all of America for the high crime and drug neighborhoods in Chicago.

Most of the Mexican Nationals that re working illegally are repeat customers who get deported over and over again. Even the criminals are multi deported illegals. What draws them here? They have family here and can easily find work and have been doing it for nigh on 20 years or more. No wall is going to stop this type. Take away their ability to earn a living, make them hungry, cold, wet and Mexico will have jobs for them in a heart beat. But in order to deny them employment we have to bust the employers hard. No excuses, no exceptions unless the Employer is making an effort not to hire illegals.

Tunnels take months to construct. Is it better to just let them walk across the border, of make them dig month long tunnels to do the same.

Nobody ever claimed that walls will stop everybody. Our claim is that walls will stop most. As for estimates on how illegals get into this country, yes, most get in with Visa's. But again, the only calculation they otherwise have on border crossers are those who have been apprehending it while in the process. Look....I'll even use a very bias and pro-immigrant leftist source like NPR to prove my claim:

About 700,000 travelers to the United States overstayed their visas in fiscal 2017, the most recent year for which the Department of Homeland Security has published figures. DHS estimated that, as of Sept. 30, 2017, the end of that fiscal year, more than 600,000 of those travelers were still in the U.S.

During that same year, there were just 300,000 apprehensions along the Southern border, according to Customs and Border Protection — the lowest number since 1971.

Where Does Illegal Immigration Mostly Occur? Here's What The Data Tell Us

So according to NPR, the majority of people here do get in using Visa's. However, half of that number of people have been apprehended crossing the southern border--again, those are only the ones that got caught.

It's clear as day that a border wall would do a lot of good in the reduction of illegals entering the US. 300,000 is a lot of people even if we don't capture them all. So the wall would stop most of those 300,000, plus the ones that get into the country that were not apprehended or detected. I say the wall is well worth it even if we consider those 300,000 alone.

You keep saying "Wall, Wall, Wall, Wall". The fact is the Wall only works in about 800 miles total of the entire almost 2000 mile border. And 733 of it has already been built. Yes, it needs repair and replacement in many areas. The "Wall" only lasts about 10 years before it needs to be repaired or replaced so it's an ongoing program. But when you try and build past that amount then you are wasting good money when far cheaper methods can be used that are even more effective. And we both know what those methods are so let's not play stupid here and discuss the. And let's not keep screaming "Wall, Wall, Wall, Wall" either because that's stupid as well.

Did you ever see some of those so-called walls that need repair all the time? I could have climbed one of those when I was 10. They are just eight foot high sheet metal structures only for symbolism. They are virtually worthless. The new walls that Trump decided on by the suggestion of the border patrol are 30 foot high steel posts filled with concrete. They decided on that design so that border patrol can see somebody approaching the wall to make an attempt to get over. That gives them time to respond and stop them before they get over, or to delay them long enough to arrest them should they actually breach the wall.

I don't see much in the way of maintenance or repair since nobody is going to cut through cement filled steel. And no, I don't know of anyway cheaper to do it, or be more efficient. What the wall will cost us is about what we spend on food stamps for a little over half a month. Given the fact it's an investment that will payoff itself, it's well worth it to me.

Any other method used can be reversed by the Democrats if they ever gain power again. But a wall is there forever. They can't reverse that without making their intentions known, and risk losing power to Republicans again, not to mention the expense of removal. That's why they fill your head up with these lies that a wall is useless. If they really believed that, they would let Trump have his wall with their blessings. But they know how effective it will be, and that they would have no power to remove it once erected.

There you go again. "They" don't fill my head with anything. I've lived in the desert regions in the Southwest. I've lived in the Rocky Mountains. I've lived in the Canyon regions.

In the Rocky Mountain and Canyon Regions there will be NO WALLS ever. You think they are expensive to place around El Paso or Sand Diego? It would be hundreds of billions per mile to place them in the Rockies and Canyon areas. And the disruption for the environment would be out of sight. I know Rump doesn't care about environment impacts but danged, it would be devastating. And besides, that billion dollar wall per mile wouldn't make it past 10 years in many areas before mother nature does her thing.

In the Desert Areas, putting that wall up is a huge waste of money. You can see for 20 miles. There is a reason that illegals don't come up that way. They won't make it. Those that try and live only make it because some Border Patrol comes buy and rescues them before they expire from the elements. Mother Nature put her own version of the wall up already. Put the boots back onto the ground to save lives like it used to be. And yes, the Coyotes do take people that route only so far. They dump them. The traveler won't make it unless the Border Patrol can get to them in time. Pulling Border Patrol off to go baby sit somewhere else doesn't mean more will get through. It will only mean more will die trying to make it.

Trump stated that a wall is not practical everywhere. Some areas have natural barriers where walls would be fruitless. But I'll trust Trump and the border patrol to tell us how best to secure this country, not a bunch of Democrats scared to death of something that will actually work.

You get most of your talking points from Democrats. As for the environment:

Trump signed the largest U.S. wilderness protection bill in a decade, designates 375,000 new acres of protected land

Report: U.S. Led All Countries in Reducing CO2 Emissions in 2019

I get most of my talking points by going outside. You should try it. Go outside and take a long hard sniff. Check out what's going all around you. Check out the rivers and steams. I spent the first 19 years of my life as a Rancher/Farmer and believe that we don't actually own the land. We are the stewards of the land. And you will find that many of us are old time Republicans. But we don't identify with your idea of Republicans these days. What you may believe as Liberal just might be conservative. And it's not a left of "Right" thing. It's just the right thing to do. I know I can never make you understand because of your cult. But we can make sure you don't kill off the real conservative way of life.

 

[beagle9]

Not if they are in a sanctuary city or state. ICE has to be contacted which the Democrat strongholds refuse to do. In fact, they even warn illegals when ICE plans on raiding companies.

Court Rules Illegal Aliens Can Sue over “Discriminatory Employment Policy” Requiring Green Cards - Judicial Watch

You left out something. "Iawfully present aliens" is another way of saying DACA which is eligible for employment. DACA is not considered an Illegal Alien according to the Supreme Court. Try again, this time , find me something where a REAL Illegal Immigrant can sue if you don't hire them.

You mean you don't believe the Judicial Watch report? You didn't even read it. I can tell by how quickly you responded.

If YOU had read it, you would have read the "Lawful Present Aliens" in your own cite. YOU didn't read your own cite but I did. Now, how about coming up with a case of a real "Illegal Immigrant" that has successfully sued like that. DACA people are authorized to work in the US pending a resolve by Congress for the DACA.

Where did I state anybody successfully sued an employer? I only provided evidence that it is possible and supported by a court. While it may have never happened.....yet, it's something employers who are in a highly populated areas of immigrants have to take into consideration when they are deciding on hiring applicants they believe may not be legal in this country.

My point here is that it's wrong to place all the burden on the employer alone. They are in a bad situation.

They are in about the best situation they can be in. They can hire at a lower wage, fewer benefits, workers that are illegal with no repercussions what so ever. Again, just do a follow up with the Social Security Number. If a program is not in place to do so then we need one put in place to do so. Just having that little blue card should not be enough since there is just way too much fraud.

One of the things founds by interviewing the ex workers from Jaimaica, at Mara-a-Largo, during it's construction, the HR department was very aware that many were undocumented workers. They helped them fake the paperwork to scam the system. When the construction was done, they were sent back to the Island and forgotten about. They workers were paid well below what any US Worker would have been paid. Even knowing this, what does the Government do about it? Nothing. But if ICE caught wind of it, the workers would have been deported and still nothing would have been done about it. So don't tell me that the Employers are in a bad way.

Or how about that Chicken Processing Plant in GA. Ice raided the place and over 100 undocumented workers were arrested and deported. If ICE can figure it out, so can the employer. What happens? The current crew of undocumented workers are departed and the next batch of undocumented workers are brought in. This isn't an exception, it's the norm.

I worked as a Manager for a United Moving and Storage Company. We had a Lupi Sanchez working there. I knew him from long ago. He was born and raised in my home town. We also had 4 other Lupi Sanchez's working there as well who didn't speak english and had to work with Lupi on the crew. Their Birch Certificates were copies of the original Lupi's but they had different SS numbers. One would have to be a complete idiot not to believe that they were illegal aliens. And there are hundreds of thousands of employers that play that game.

Here are the penalties that an Employer MAY be leveled

Penalties

There is no mention of Prosecution at all. it's all put on the Employed, not the employer. Yes, it's illegal to hire them knowingly but there is no real penalty. And that is the problem. There is nothing to stop the Employer to continue doing it over and over outside of having ICE opening a choak and puke right outside the front entrance.

Jobs that thousands of American's worked for years, until the game began to be played in this country.

 

[beagle9]

You mean you don't believe the Judicial Watch report? You didn't even read it. I can tell by how quickly you responded.

If YOU had read it, you would have read the "Lawful Present Aliens" in your own cite. YOU didn't read your own cite but I did. Now, how about coming up with a case of a real "Illegal Immigrant" that has successfully sued like that. DACA people are authorized to work in the US pending a resolve by Congress for the DACA.

Where did I state anybody successfully sued an employer? I only provided evidence that it is possible and supported by a court. While it may have never happened.....yet, it's something employers who are in a highly populated areas of immigrants have to take into consideration when they are deciding on hiring applicants they believe may not be legal in this country.

My point here is that it's wrong to place all the burden on the employer alone. They are in a bad situation.

They are in about the best situation they can be in. They can hire at a lower wage, fewer benefits, workers that are illegal with no repercussions what so ever. Again, just do a follow up with the Social Security Number. If a program is not in place to do so then we need one put in place to do so. Just having that little blue card should not be enough since there is just way too much fraud.

One of the things founds by interviewing the ex workers from Jaimaica, at Mara-a-Largo, during it's construction, the HR department was very aware that many were undocumented workers. They helped them fake the paperwork to scam the system. When the construction was done, they were sent back to the Island and forgotten about. They workers were paid well below what any US Worker would have been paid. Even knowing this, what does the Government do about it? Nothing. But if ICE caught wind of it, the workers would have been deported and still nothing would have been done about it. So don't tell me that the Employers are in a bad way.

Or how about that Chicken Processing Plant in GA. Ice raided the place and over 100 undocumented workers were arrested and deported. If ICE can figure it out, so can the employer. What happens? The current crew of undocumented workers are departed and the next batch of undocumented workers are brought in. This isn't an exception, it's the norm.

I worked as a Manager for a United Moving and Storage Company. We had a Lupi Sanchez working there. I knew him from long ago. He was born and raised in my home town. We also had 4 other Lupi Sanchez's working there as well who didn't speak english and had to work with Lupi on the crew. Their Birch Certificates were copies of the original Lupi's but they had different SS numbers. One would have to be a complete idiot not to believe that they were illegal aliens. And there are hundreds of thousands of employers that play that game.

Here are the penalties that an Employer MAY be leveled

Penalties

There is no mention of Prosecution at all. it's all put on the Employed, not the employer. Yes, it's illegal to hire them knowingly but there is no real penalty. And that is the problem. There is nothing to stop the Employer to continue doing it over and over outside of having ICE opening a choak and puke right outside the front entrance.

Web of illegal immigration, fake IDs unraveled for workers at Amish-area chicken plant in Ohio

Fake ID market bypasses anti-fraud measures | TechRadar

Once upon a time, a new IDentity cost about 300 bucks. It bought a Birth Certificate from a baby that died not long after birth of about the same age. Using that, it established a Social Security Number and the and then a Drivers License. Presto Chango, you get to be a new person. The problem is, the birth records aren't necessarily cross checked with the death records in many places even today. I imagine that the price has gone up. There are people and organizations that make good livings providing these services. And retrieving that original birth certificate is NOT illegal. It's public record. What's done with it IS illegal though.

You keep bringing up the exception to the norm. This person is a lifelong criminal who knows how to cheat the system and has cheated it over and over. The normal Illegal doesn't have the contacts now the knowledge to do this.

Who is this person you speak of that is a life long criminal ??

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Tunnels take months to construct. Is it better to just let them walk across the border, of make them dig month long tunnels to do the same.

Nobody ever claimed that walls will stop everybody. Our claim is that walls will stop most. As for estimates on how illegals get into this country, yes, most get in with Visa's. But again, the only calculation they otherwise have on border crossers are those who have been apprehending it while in the process. Look....I'll even use a very bias and pro-immigrant leftist source like NPR to prove my claim:

About 700,000 travelers to the United States overstayed their visas in fiscal 2017, the most recent year for which the Department of Homeland Security has published figures. DHS estimated that, as of Sept. 30, 2017, the end of that fiscal year, more than 600,000 of those travelers were still in the U.S.

During that same year, there were just 300,000 apprehensions along the Southern border, according to Customs and Border Protection — the lowest number since 1971.

Where Does Illegal Immigration Mostly Occur? Here's What The Data Tell Us

So according to NPR, the majority of people here do get in using Visa's. However, half of that number of people have been apprehended crossing the southern border--again, those are only the ones that got caught.

It's clear as day that a border wall would do a lot of good in the reduction of illegals entering the US. 300,000 is a lot of people even if we don't capture them all. So the wall would stop most of those 300,000, plus the ones that get into the country that were not apprehended or detected. I say the wall is well worth it even if we consider those 300,000 alone.

You keep saying "Wall, Wall, Wall, Wall". The fact is the Wall only works in about 800 miles total of the entire almost 2000 mile border. And 733 of it has already been built. Yes, it needs repair and replacement in many areas. The "Wall" only lasts about 10 years before it needs to be repaired or replaced so it's an ongoing program. But when you try and build past that amount then you are wasting good money when far cheaper methods can be used that are even more effective. And we both know what those methods are so let's not play stupid here and discuss the. And let's not keep screaming "Wall, Wall, Wall, Wall" either because that's stupid as well.

Did you ever see some of those so-called walls that need repair all the time? I could have climbed one of those when I was 10. They are just eight foot high sheet metal structures only for symbolism. They are virtually worthless. The new walls that Trump decided on by the suggestion of the border patrol are 30 foot high steel posts filled with concrete. They decided on that design so that border patrol can see somebody approaching the wall to make an attempt to get over. That gives them time to respond and stop them before they get over, or to delay them long enough to arrest them should they actually breach the wall.

I don't see much in the way of maintenance or repair since nobody is going to cut through cement filled steel. And no, I don't know of anyway cheaper to do it, or be more efficient. What the wall will cost us is about what we spend on food stamps for a little over half a month. Given the fact it's an investment that will payoff itself, it's well worth it to me.

Any other method used can be reversed by the Democrats if they ever gain power again. But a wall is there forever. They can't reverse that without making their intentions known, and risk losing power to Republicans again, not to mention the expense of removal. That's why they fill your head up with these lies that a wall is useless. If they really believed that, they would let Trump have his wall with their blessings. But they know how effective it will be, and that they would have no power to remove it once erected.

There you go again. "They" don't fill my head with anything. I've lived in the desert regions in the Southwest. I've lived in the Rocky Mountains. I've lived in the Canyon regions.

In the Rocky Mountain and Canyon Regions there will be NO WALLS ever. You think they are expensive to place around El Paso or Sand Diego? It would be hundreds of billions per mile to place them in the Rockies and Canyon areas. And the disruption for the environment would be out of sight. I know Rump doesn't care about environment impacts but danged, it would be devastating. And besides, that billion dollar wall per mile wouldn't make it past 10 years in many areas before mother nature does her thing.

In the Desert Areas, putting that wall up is a huge waste of money. You can see for 20 miles. There is a reason that illegals don't come up that way. They won't make it. Those that try and live only make it because some Border Patrol comes buy and rescues them before they expire from the elements. Mother Nature put her own version of the wall up already. Put the boots back onto the ground to save lives like it used to be. And yes, the Coyotes do take people that route only so far. They dump them. The traveler won't make it unless the Border Patrol can get to them in time. Pulling Border Patrol off to go baby sit somewhere else doesn't mean more will get through. It will only mean more will die trying to make it.

Trump stated that a wall is not practical everywhere. Some areas have natural barriers where walls would be fruitless. But I'll trust Trump and the border patrol to tell us how best to secure this country, not a bunch of Democrats scared to death of something that will actually work.

You get most of your talking points from Democrats. As for the environment:

Trump signed the largest U.S. wilderness protection bill in a decade, designates 375,000 new acres of protected land

Report: U.S. Led All Countries in Reducing CO2 Emissions in 2019

I get most of my talking points by going outside. You should try it. Go outside and take a long hard sniff. Check out what's going all around you. Check out the rivers and steams. I spent the first 19 years of my life as a Rancher/Farmer and believe that we don't actually own the land. We are the stewards of the land. And you will find that many of us are old time Republicans. But we don't identify with your idea of Republicans these days. What you may believe as Liberal just might be conservative. And it's not a left of "Right" thing. It's just the right thing to do. I know I can never make you understand because of your cult. But we can make sure you don't kill off the real conservative way of life.

You don't measure environment by going outside. You don't measure it by the Democrat party. You measure it by the fact that regardless how much we try to conquer climate change, it's impossible because we have very little to do with it. It's not in our control, it's in control of a far higher power--God.

My cult believes in more personal responsibility. My cult believes that a rising tide lifts all boats. My cult believes in the US Constitution and the intent of our founders. My cult believes in tradition that Americans have valued since the beginning of our time in this country. My cult believes that rewarding failure and penalizing success only gets you more of the same. My cult believes that you can't change your gender by the attire you embellish or how high you can make your voice. What does your cult believe?

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

You mean you don't believe the Judicial Watch report? You didn't even read it. I can tell by how quickly you responded.

If YOU had read it, you would have read the "Lawful Present Aliens" in your own cite. YOU didn't read your own cite but I did. Now, how about coming up with a case of a real "Illegal Immigrant" that has successfully sued like that. DACA people are authorized to work in the US pending a resolve by Congress for the DACA.

Where did I state anybody successfully sued an employer? I only provided evidence that it is possible and supported by a court. While it may have never happened.....yet, it's something employers who are in a highly populated areas of immigrants have to take into consideration when they are deciding on hiring applicants they believe may not be legal in this country.

My point here is that it's wrong to place all the burden on the employer alone. They are in a bad situation.

They are in about the best situation they can be in. They can hire at a lower wage, fewer benefits, workers that are illegal with no repercussions what so ever. Again, just do a follow up with the Social Security Number. If a program is not in place to do so then we need one put in place to do so. Just having that little blue card should not be enough since there is just way too much fraud.

One of the things founds by interviewing the ex workers from Jaimaica, at Mara-a-Largo, during it's construction, the HR department was very aware that many were undocumented workers. They helped them fake the paperwork to scam the system. When the construction was done, they were sent back to the Island and forgotten about. They workers were paid well below what any US Worker would have been paid. Even knowing this, what does the Government do about it? Nothing. But if ICE caught wind of it, the workers would have been deported and still nothing would have been done about it. So don't tell me that the Employers are in a bad way.

Or how about that Chicken Processing Plant in GA. Ice raided the place and over 100 undocumented workers were arrested and deported. If ICE can figure it out, so can the employer. What happens? The current crew of undocumented workers are departed and the next batch of undocumented workers are brought in. This isn't an exception, it's the norm.

I worked as a Manager for a United Moving and Storage Company. We had a Lupi Sanchez working there. I knew him from long ago. He was born and raised in my home town. We also had 4 other Lupi Sanchez's working there as well who didn't speak english and had to work with Lupi on the crew. Their Birch Certificates were copies of the original Lupi's but they had different SS numbers. One would have to be a complete idiot not to believe that they were illegal aliens. And there are hundreds of thousands of employers that play that game.

Here are the penalties that an Employer MAY be leveled

Penalties

There is no mention of Prosecution at all. it's all put on the Employed, not the employer. Yes, it's illegal to hire them knowingly but there is no real penalty. And that is the problem. There is nothing to stop the Employer to continue doing it over and over outside of having ICE opening a choak and puke right outside the front entrance.

Web of illegal immigration, fake IDs unraveled for workers at Amish-area chicken plant in Ohio

Fake ID market bypasses anti-fraud measures | TechRadar

Once upon a time, a new IDentity cost about 300 bucks. It bought a Birth Certificate from a baby that died not long after birth of about the same age. Using that, it established a Social Security Number and the and then a Drivers License. Presto Chango, you get to be a new person. The problem is, the birth records aren't necessarily cross checked with the death records in many places even today. I imagine that the price has gone up. There are people and organizations that make good livings providing these services. And retrieving that original birth certificate is NOT illegal. It's public record. What's done with it IS illegal though.

You keep bringing up the exception to the norm. This person is a lifelong criminal who knows how to cheat the system and has cheated it over and over. The normal Illegal doesn't have the contacts now the knowledge to do this.

Which is why the illegal pays people that do know how.

 

[WEATHER53]

You keep saying "Wall, Wall, Wall, Wall". The fact is the Wall only works in about 800 miles total of the entire almost 2000 mile border. And 733 of it has already been built. Yes, it needs repair and replacement in many areas. The "Wall" only lasts about 10 years before it needs to be repaired or replaced so it's an ongoing program. But when you try and build past that amount then you are wasting good money when far cheaper methods can be used that are even more effective. And we both know what those methods are so let's not play stupid here and discuss the. And let's not keep screaming "Wall, Wall, Wall, Wall" either because that's stupid as well.

Did you ever see some of those so-called walls that need repair all the time? I could have climbed one of those when I was 10. They are just eight foot high sheet metal structures only for symbolism. They are virtually worthless. The new walls that Trump decided on by the suggestion of the border patrol are 30 foot high steel posts filled with concrete. They decided on that design so that border patrol can see somebody approaching the wall to make an attempt to get over. That gives them time to respond and stop them before they get over, or to delay them long enough to arrest them should they actually breach the wall.

I don't see much in the way of maintenance or repair since nobody is going to cut through cement filled steel. And no, I don't know of anyway cheaper to do it, or be more efficient. What the wall will cost us is about what we spend on food stamps for a little over half a month. Given the fact it's an investment that will payoff itself, it's well worth it to me.

Any other method used can be reversed by the Democrats if they ever gain power again. But a wall is there forever. They can't reverse that without making their intentions known, and risk losing power to Republicans again, not to mention the expense of removal. That's why they fill your head up with these lies that a wall is useless. If they really believed that, they would let Trump have his wall with their blessings. But they know how effective it will be, and that they would have no power to remove it once erected.

There you go again. "They" don't fill my head with anything. I've lived in the desert regions in the Southwest. I've lived in the Rocky Mountains. I've lived in the Canyon regions.

In the Rocky Mountain and Canyon Regions there will be NO WALLS ever. You think they are expensive to place around El Paso or Sand Diego? It would be hundreds of billions per mile to place them in the Rockies and Canyon areas. And the disruption for the environment would be out of sight. I know Rump doesn't care about environment impacts but danged, it would be devastating. And besides, that billion dollar wall per mile wouldn't make it past 10 years in many areas before mother nature does her thing.

In the Desert Areas, putting that wall up is a huge waste of money. You can see for 20 miles. There is a reason that illegals don't come up that way. They won't make it. Those that try and live only make it because some Border Patrol comes buy and rescues them before they expire from the elements. Mother Nature put her own version of the wall up already. Put the boots back onto the ground to save lives like it used to be. And yes, the Coyotes do take people that route only so far. They dump them. The traveler won't make it unless the Border Patrol can get to them in time. Pulling Border Patrol off to go baby sit somewhere else doesn't mean more will get through. It will only mean more will die trying to make it.

Trump stated that a wall is not practical everywhere. Some areas have natural barriers where walls would be fruitless. But I'll trust Trump and the border patrol to tell us how best to secure this country, not a bunch of Democrats scared to death of something that will actually work.

You get most of your talking points from Democrats. As for the environment:

Trump signed the largest U.S. wilderness protection bill in a decade, designates 375,000 new acres of protected land

Report: U.S. Led All Countries in Reducing CO2 Emissions in 2019

I get most of my talking points by going outside. You should try it. Go outside and take a long hard sniff. Check out what's going all around you. Check out the rivers and steams. I spent the first 19 years of my life as a Rancher/Farmer and believe that we don't actually own the land. We are the stewards of the land. And you will find that many of us are old time Republicans. But we don't identify with your idea of Republicans these days. What you may believe as Liberal just might be conservative. And it's not a left of "Right" thing. It's just the right thing to do. I know I can never make you understand because of your cult. But we can make sure you don't kill off the real conservative way of life.

You don't measure environment by going outside. You don't measure it by the Democrat party. You measure it by the fact that regardless how much we try to conquer climate change, it's impossible because we have very little to do with it. It's not in our control, it's in control of a far higher power--God.

My cult believes in more personal responsibility. My cult believes that a rising tide lifts all boats. My cult believes in the US Constitution and the intent of our founders. My cult believes in tradition that Americans have valued since the beginning of our time in this country. My cult believes that rewarding failure and penalizing success only gets you more of the same. My cult believes that you can't change your gender by the attire you embellish or how high you can make your voice. What does your cult believe?

Their cult believes that if you can’t win then Wail you were cheated and if you can’t earn then take it from those who can.