Republican tax cut will not trickle down

[Boss]

You are the dummy. Businesses are not people. Companies will ether save the cash, make acquisitions which will lead to fewer jobs or use it for stock buybacks. None of these activities help the middle class. Salaries will only go up and businesses will only expand only if it makes business sense. This is not true tax reform. very few business tax breaks are done away with and in certain cases none are being touched.

You know nothing about me. The Reagan tax cuts in the early 80s raised taxes on no one. This tax reform bill is a hodge podge of tax increases on middle class people to pay for tax cuts for the wealthy. Middle class deductions like SALT and interest on student loans are being done away with. Graduate students will see tax increases. Yet there are plenty of tax breaks the wealthy can use are being kept intact. The real estate industry is unscathed. A new loophole is being created for the wealthy to shelter their income at a lower rate. Even carried interest which Trump denounced is being kept.

Again, no matter what businesses do, it results in stimulating the economy. If they save the cash it goes into banks where it is then made available for loans to people who need money, thus stimulating the economy. If they use it to make acquisitions, someone gets paid money and then they stimulate the economy. If they buy back stocks, again, someone gets money and the economy is stimulated. But the truth of the matter is, many businesses will use the new tax windfall to expand their businesses and create new jobs. We know this for a fact because they do it every time their taxes are lowered.

I know everything I need to know about you. You're a left wing radical punk who is carrying the water for the Socialist trash you support wholeheartedly. You'll lie and mislead, distort and propagandize as much as you can until the tax reform passes. Once it's passed, you'll keep denigrating those who passed it and lying about the effects. You have no integrity or honesty about you, whatever you need to do or say to promote your Marxist agenda, you'll happily do. And you'll continue to do this until you drive this great nation into the shit hole so you can usher in Utopian Socialism.

That's who you are and we all know who you are. No need to argue with you or "debate" these things with you. The idea that you can be objective or honest is laughable. The best thing any of us can do is ignore you and move on.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

The fact is that businesses will do what is in their best interests. If it makes business sense they will expand or raise employee pay. However there is one thing that will prevent them from doing it. At 1 time making a profit was enough. Now analysts tell us how much money they need to make. Those analysts will be raising their estimates on the basis of a tax cut. They will have to keep most if not all of the extra money to meet their estimates and keep their stock prices up.

This is really simple, even for a dummy like yourself. Tax cuts mean more money in the pockets of tax payers. More money in the pockets of tax payers means more money in the economy, one way or another. There are only three possibilities when tax payers have more money... they spend it, they invest it or they consume it. Nothing else is possible in the realm of physics. If they spend it, then it goes directly into economic stimulation. If they invest or save it, then it becomes available capital for loans which also grow the economy. Finally, if they burn the money in the fireplace or eat it (consume it), then it simply makes the remaining money worth more. So no matter what happens, it will have a positive effect on the economy.

Look... we're not as stupid as you think.... we understand why you left-wingers are opposed to the tax cuts. You want MORE taxes! You would like to tax everyone as much as you possibly can and let the Almighty Government be our nanny and provide for our needs. That's your whole deal as lefties! The idea of letting us keep more of what we earn is antithetical to everything you stand for. So, of course you are opposed to this!

You are the dummy. Businesses are not people. Companies will ether save the cash, make acquisitions which will lead to fewer jobs or use it for stock buybacks. None of these activities help the middle class. Salaries will only go up and businesses will only expand only if it makes business sense. This is not true tax reform. very few business tax breaks are done away with and in certain cases none are being touched.

You know nothing about me. The Reagan tax cuts in the early 80s raised taxes on no one. This tax reform bill is a hodge podge of tax increases on middle class people to pay for tax cuts for the wealthy. Middle class deductions like SALT and interest on student loans are being done away with. Graduate students will see tax increases. Yet there are plenty of tax breaks the wealthy can use are being kept intact. The real estate industry is unscathed. A new loophole is being created for the wealthy to shelter their income at a lower rate. Even carried interest which Trump denounced is being kept.

Companies will ether save the cash, make acquisitions which will lead to fewer jobs or use it for stock buybacks. None of these activities help the middle class.

The middle class doesn't benefit from higher stock prices?

 

[busybee01]

Mitch McConnell admits that some in the middle class will see their taxes rise. Rubio and Lee admit that the tax bill will not help working class Americans. You are the moron.

Nobody "admitted" any such thing... You and your fake news propagandists like to take things out of context and distort what people say, then LIE YOUR ASS OFF to the American people.

You are the LYING ASSJOLE. McConnell said he misspoke when he said no one in the middle class would see a tax increase. There are no distortions and you are fake news.

I really don't care what marble mouth said, he is an incompetent Republican who needs to retire. The tax reforms involve elimination of what you used to call "loopholes for the rich" and complained vigorously about. Now, they are suddenly being exploited to show where SOME people may not see a decrease in taxes with the tax cuts. Yeah, if you are a "middle class" (you've not defined that) tax payer in a hyper-blue state with massive taxes, then the elimination of the SALT deduction will probably increase their tax burden. But these are people who itemize deductions, which means they are on the upper end of the "middle class" scale. The overwhelming majority of "middle class" taxpayers are going to see a huge decrease in taxes, starting in January on their first paychecks.

But hey... I thought you people LIKED higher taxes?

McConnell is the one who is putting the plan together so he should know. Mike Lee and Marco Rubio admit this does nothing for working parents with children. The fact is that a middle class person can vary from state to state. $100,000 may have you living very well in Mississippi but living on the edge if you live in a state with a higher per capita income. Even in red states, there can be a huge difference. $100,000 goes much farther in rural Georgia that it does in Atlanta.

If some middle class people see a tax increase then that is okay with you? The fact is that loopholes that rich people use are kept intact. The pass through rates will leave a massive loophole that will be exploited to allow the rich to shield some of their income. There are other ways that the rich benefit. Families will be allowed to take money out of 529 accounts for K-12 which will mostly benefit wealthier taxpayers. The carried interest deduction will be retained which benefits mostly hedge fund managers. Trump promised to get rid of this. All of these deductions that help the rich lower their taxes should have been on the table and no new loopholes should have been created. This is what tax reform is.

 

[busybee01]

Companies will ether save the cash, make acquisitions which will lead to fewer jobs or use it for stock buybacks. None of these activities help the middle class.

The middle class doesn't benefit from higher stock prices?[/QUOTE]

The rich get the lion's share of the benefits from higher stock prices.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Companies will ether save the cash, make acquisitions which will lead to fewer jobs or use it for stock buybacks. None of these activities help the middle class.

The middle class doesn't benefit from higher stock prices?

The rich get the lion's share of the benefits from higher stock prices.

The middle class doesn't benefit from higher stock prices?

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Mitch McConnell admits that some in the middle class will see their taxes rise. Rubio and Lee admit that the tax bill will not help working class Americans. You are the moron.

Nobody "admitted" any such thing... You and your fake news propagandists like to take things out of context and distort what people say, then LIE YOUR ASS OFF to the American people.

You are the LYING ASSJOLE. McConnell said he misspoke when he said no one in the middle class would see a tax increase. There are no distortions and you are fake news.

I really don't care what marble mouth said, he is an incompetent Republican who needs to retire. The tax reforms involve elimination of what you used to call "loopholes for the rich" and complained vigorously about. Now, they are suddenly being exploited to show where SOME people may not see a decrease in taxes with the tax cuts. Yeah, if you are a "middle class" (you've not defined that) tax payer in a hyper-blue state with massive taxes, then the elimination of the SALT deduction will probably increase their tax burden. But these are people who itemize deductions, which means they are on the upper end of the "middle class" scale. The overwhelming majority of "middle class" taxpayers are going to see a huge decrease in taxes, starting in January on their first paychecks.

But hey... I thought you people LIKED higher taxes?

McConnell is the one who is putting the plan together so he should know. Mike Lee and Marco Rubio admit this does nothing for working parents with children. The fact is that a middle class person can vary from state to state. $100,000 may have you living very well in Mississippi but living on the edge if you live in a state with a higher per capita income. Even in red states, there can be a huge difference. $100,000 goes much farther in rural Georgia that it does in Atlanta.

If some middle class people see a tax increase then that is okay with you? The fact is that loopholes that rich people use are kept intact. The pass through rates will leave a massive loophole that will be exploited to allow the rich to shield some of their income. There are other ways that the rich benefit. Families will be allowed to take money out of 529 accounts for K-12 which will mostly benefit wealthier taxpayers. The carried interest deduction will be retained which benefits mostly hedge fund managers. Trump promised to get rid of this. All of these deductions that help the rich lower their taxes should have been on the table and no new loopholes should have been created. This is what tax reform is.

All of these deductions that help the rich lower their taxes should have been on the table

Exactly!
Like state and local taxes.

 

[busybee01]

Mitch McConnell admits that some in the middle class will see their taxes rise. Rubio and Lee admit that the tax bill will not help working class Americans. You are the moron.

Nobody "admitted" any such thing... You and your fake news propagandists like to take things out of context and distort what people say, then LIE YOUR ASS OFF to the American people.

You are the LYING ASSJOLE. McConnell said he misspoke when he said no one in the middle class would see a tax increase. There are no distortions and you are fake news.

I really don't care what marble mouth said, he is an incompetent Republican who needs to retire. The tax reforms involve elimination of what you used to call "loopholes for the rich" and complained vigorously about. Now, they are suddenly being exploited to show where SOME people may not see a decrease in taxes with the tax cuts. Yeah, if you are a "middle class" (you've not defined that) tax payer in a hyper-blue state with massive taxes, then the elimination of the SALT deduction will probably increase their tax burden. But these are people who itemize deductions, which means they are on the upper end of the "middle class" scale. The overwhelming majority of "middle class" taxpayers are going to see a huge decrease in taxes, starting in January on their first paychecks.

But hey... I thought you people LIKED higher taxes?

McConnell is the one who is putting the plan together so he should know. Mike Lee and Marco Rubio admit this does nothing for working parents with children. The fact is that a middle class person can vary from state to state. $100,000 may have you living very well in Mississippi but living on the edge if you live in a state with a higher per capita income. Even in red states, there can be a huge difference. $100,000 goes much farther in rural Georgia that it does in Atlanta.

If some middle class people see a tax increase then that is okay with you? The fact is that loopholes that rich people use are kept intact. The pass through rates will leave a massive loophole that will be exploited to allow the rich to shield some of their income. There are other ways that the rich benefit. Families will be allowed to take money out of 529 accounts for K-12 which will mostly benefit wealthier taxpayers. The carried interest deduction will be retained which benefits mostly hedge fund managers. Trump promised to get rid of this. All of these deductions that help the rich lower their taxes should have been on the table and no new loopholes should have been created. This is what tax reform is.

All of these deductions that help the rich lower their taxes should have been on the table

Exactly!
Like state and local taxes.

Again the middle class also make use of state and local tax deductions. There are plenty of places they are not touching. The pass through provision will be a boon for the rich as they will restructure their income to take advantage of it. Carried interest is another way for the rich to lower their taxes. That survives. The loopholes used by real estate trusts are left intact. The middle class should not be paying more in taxes.

Interesting analysis by the NY Times of the Senate bill.

Percentage of people paying higher taxes under the Senate bill
$100,000-200,000 36%
$200,000-500,000 33%
$75,000-100,000 21%
>$500,000 18%

$75,000-500,000 30%
>$500,000 18%

Doesn't look like the rich suffer too much. The better choice would have been across the board tax cuts ala Ronald Reagan.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Nobody "admitted" any such thing... You and your fake news propagandists like to take things out of context and distort what people say, then LIE YOUR ASS OFF to the American people.

You are the LYING ASSJOLE. McConnell said he misspoke when he said no one in the middle class would see a tax increase. There are no distortions and you are fake news.

I really don't care what marble mouth said, he is an incompetent Republican who needs to retire. The tax reforms involve elimination of what you used to call "loopholes for the rich" and complained vigorously about. Now, they are suddenly being exploited to show where SOME people may not see a decrease in taxes with the tax cuts. Yeah, if you are a "middle class" (you've not defined that) tax payer in a hyper-blue state with massive taxes, then the elimination of the SALT deduction will probably increase their tax burden. But these are people who itemize deductions, which means they are on the upper end of the "middle class" scale. The overwhelming majority of "middle class" taxpayers are going to see a huge decrease in taxes, starting in January on their first paychecks.

But hey... I thought you people LIKED higher taxes?

McConnell is the one who is putting the plan together so he should know. Mike Lee and Marco Rubio admit this does nothing for working parents with children. The fact is that a middle class person can vary from state to state. $100,000 may have you living very well in Mississippi but living on the edge if you live in a state with a higher per capita income. Even in red states, there can be a huge difference. $100,000 goes much farther in rural Georgia that it does in Atlanta.

If some middle class people see a tax increase then that is okay with you? The fact is that loopholes that rich people use are kept intact. The pass through rates will leave a massive loophole that will be exploited to allow the rich to shield some of their income. There are other ways that the rich benefit. Families will be allowed to take money out of 529 accounts for K-12 which will mostly benefit wealthier taxpayers. The carried interest deduction will be retained which benefits mostly hedge fund managers. Trump promised to get rid of this. All of these deductions that help the rich lower their taxes should have been on the table and no new loopholes should have been created. This is what tax reform is.

All of these deductions that help the rich lower their taxes should have been on the table

Exactly!
Like state and local taxes.

Again the middle class also make use of state and local tax deductions. There are plenty of places they are not touching. The pass through provision will be a boon for the rich as they will restructure their income to take advantage of it. Carried interest is another way for the rich to lower their taxes. That survives. The loopholes used by real estate trusts are left intact. The middle class should not be paying more in taxes.

Interesting analysis by the NY Times of the Senate bill.

Percentage of people paying higher taxes under the Senate bill
$100,000-200,000 36%
$200,000-500,000 33%
$75,000-100,000 21%
>$500,000 18%

$75,000-500,000 30%
>$500,000 18%

Doesn't look like the rich suffer too much. The better choice would have been across the board tax cuts ala Ronald Reagan.

Again the middle class also make use of state and local tax deductions.

Define middle class. Tell us what percentage of that middle class itemizes.

Doesn't look like the rich suffer too much. The better choice would have been across the board tax cuts ala Ronald Reagan.

28% top rate sounds good to me.

 

[Boss]

McConnell is the one who is putting the plan together so he should know. Mike Lee and Marco Rubio admit this does nothing for working parents with children. The fact is that a middle class person can vary from state to state. $100,000 may have you living very well in Mississippi but living on the edge if you live in a state with a higher per capita income. Even in red states, there can be a huge difference. $100,000 goes much farther in rural Georgia that it does in Atlanta.

If some middle class people see a tax increase then that is okay with you? The fact is that loopholes that rich people use are kept intact. The pass through rates will leave a massive loophole that will be exploited to allow the rich to shield some of their income. There are other ways that the rich benefit. Families will be allowed to take money out of 529 accounts for K-12 which will mostly benefit wealthier taxpayers. The carried interest deduction will be retained which benefits mostly hedge fund managers. Trump promised to get rid of this. All of these deductions that help the rich lower their taxes should have been on the table and no new loopholes should have been created. This is what tax reform is.

All of this is absolute bullshit, which we've come to expect from the left and fake news. Mitch McConnell isn't putting anything together. He is the Senate Majority Leader. There are two tax reform bills which are currently in reconciliation, and several people worked on them. If you think Rubio and Lee said middle class taxpayers with children aren't getting a tax cut, that's your problem... you're believing an outright LIE!

YES... "middle class" can vary, it's a highly subjective term and it can be manipulated to include or not include large swaths of individual taxpayers, depending on your agenda and what propaganda you want to push. And it can be changed on the fly to apply in some cases and not apply in others, so that you can piece together a tapestry of lies and distortions in order to prop up your nonsense and promote your left-wing narrative.

I'm not 100% okay with everything in this tax proposal! But if ANYTHING, it doesn't lower top marginal rates as Trump promised when campaigning. Top marginals are supposed to be dropped to 33% and that's in neither bill. And I am sorry buddy, but your party doesn't want to come to the table and work with Republicans so you have no representation on this. You should be angry with your Democrat leadership, not Republicans. If anything, the GOP has been far too weak on this bill in order to get it passed by Republican moderates. But hey, I'll take this... any time we can get back more of our own money and keep it out of the Swamp, it's a great thing for America!

 

[Boss]

The pass through provision will be a boon for the rich as they will restructure their income to take advantage of it.

The pass through provision is to help small business owners.

And we do not tax WEALTH! We tax INCOME!

 

[danielpalos]

Every analysis that I have seen of the proposed tax cuts has my family paying several thouand dollars less in filthy Federal government taxes.

What analysis? Link, please. Because Trump's team never put an analysis forth, despite promising they would.

I have posted links to the calculations in other threads. I am not going to bother to do it now since we don't know if it will be the Senate version or the House version or a combination that will go to Trump for signature. Every time I did one of these calculations it shows me saving several thousand.

There is a lot of fake news put out about how it will effect tax payers so I discount the lies from the anti Trump assholes.

For my middle class retirement income where I don't itemize any more because I paid off my house and live in a state without high taxation the greater deduction and lower tax brackets should save me a few thousand.

I am glad of the corporate tax decrease because that will greatly stimulate the economy and fatten my 401K.

I would much rather spend the money that I have earned for my retirement than to give it to some filthy ass government asshole to be redistributed to welfare queens and illegals, wouldn't you?

I am also very glad the proposed tax plan does away with that stupid Obamacare mandate. The last thing we need is for the filthy oppressive government to be forcing people that neither want or need insurance to buy it, wouln't you agree? That is anti liberty, isn't it? Hope it stays in and not negotiated away.

Increasing the debt is merely income redistribution.

 

[Flash]

[

Increasing the debt is merely income redistribution.

LOL! In a convoluted way you are correct. We borrow money to fund the filthy greedy welfare state and then somebody else has to earn the money at a later date to pay it back.

Since productive people are the ones that pay most of the taxes then it does become a redistribution of income.

Of course you can say that about all government spending whether it is paid for out of revenue or debt.

That is why real tax reform is cutting back on spending and returning the money to the taxpayers. If you keep spending money anything sold as tax reform is usually nothing more than reshuffling the mix of winners and losers.

 

[danielpalos]

Lowering taxes for the rich that adds to the debt has to be paid back by the People not just the rich.

 

[Papageorgio]

Companies will ether save the cash, make acquisitions which will lead to fewer jobs or use it for stock buybacks. None of these activities help the middle class.

The middle class doesn't benefit from higher stock prices?

The rich get the lion's share of the benefits from higher stock prices.

The middle class doesn't benefit from higher stock prices?

My investments do better with the higher stock prices and I’m not rich.

 

[Papageorgio]

The pass through provision will be a boon for the rich as they will restructure their income to take advantage of it.

The pass through provision is to help small business owners.

And we do not tax WEALTH! We tax INCOME!

BINGO!!! That is why Buffett is spouting nothing but hey the Dems fall all over themselves for that idiot.

 

[danielpalos]

Companies will ether save the cash, make acquisitions which will lead to fewer jobs or use it for stock buybacks. None of these activities help the middle class.

The middle class doesn't benefit from higher stock prices?

The rich get the lion's share of the benefits from higher stock prices.

The middle class doesn't benefit from higher stock prices?

My investments do better with the higher stock prices and I’m not rich.

Better capital management can do the same, and you provide input to the economy.

 

[Papageorgio]

Companies will ether save the cash, make acquisitions which will lead to fewer jobs or use it for stock buybacks. None of these activities help the middle class.

The middle class doesn't benefit from higher stock prices?

The rich get the lion's share of the benefits from higher stock prices.

The middle class doesn't benefit from higher stock prices?

My investments do better with the higher stock prices and I’m not rich.

Better capital management can do the same, and you provide input to the economy.

That wasn’t the question. The answer is the middle DOES benefit from higher stock prices. Do you have proof it doesn’t?

 

[ScienceRocks]

The money will go off shore and we will be poorer for it.

Dumb fucking republicans.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

The money will go off shore and we will be poorer for it.

Dumb fucking republicans.

Cut taxes, less incentive to hold money off shore.
Stupid fucking twat.

 

[Boss]

The money will go off shore and we will be poorer for it.

Dumb fucking republicans.

So it's your contention that taxpayers who earn high incomes would rather send their tax refunds offshore where they can't possibly benefit from it financially here, just to spite the rest of us?