Republicans: Do you have a breaking point with Trump?

[Doc1]

Serious question: Back during the campaign, those of us who were not voting for Trump didn't believe that he'd be able to follow through on a pretty significant percentage of his promises. We were mocked, of course, but now that we know the ACA won't be repealed, that Mexico won't be paying for the wall, that Trump even backed out of requiring WE fund the wall, and that he's softening on NAFTA and NATO and other issues, I'd like to know:

Have you thought about how much leeway you'll give him on his promises before you'd stop supporting him?
.

You're sounding like the typical regressive. Trump is in his first hundred days, not his last. NATO partners have agreed to up their defense spending to the required levels in the treaty and agreed to do more on terrorism. Trumps trade rep just got confirmed and hasn't even had time to get acquainted with his office. ACA replacement may be voted on as early as this week. Your crap is as weak as nats.

He said he was going to REPEAL the ACA, have Mexico pay for the wall, and get out of NAFTA.

Are any of those going to happen?
.

Probably not. He can't just just change the ACA he has to fully repeal and Mexico isn't paying for any wall and he back tracked on NAFTA yesterday. Not to mention his daughter and son-in-law wants him to accept Syrian refugees.

Well, regarding the ACA, I suspect there's more going on there than we know. I think Trump was fed a bowl of crap about being able to repeal it, and was just let loose to run with it. Those on the inside had to know damn well they couldn't do a full repeal. So now he's left out there to dangle in the wind. But it looks like he'll be forgiven for it.
.

Ryan played him like a fiddle.

 

[debbiedowner]

More importantly for Repubs is the tax cuts that will drive up the deficit. That one alone should be a non-starter.

The massive tax INCREASES of petulant former President Barack Hussein Obama drove the DEBT FROM $10 TRILLION TO $20 TRILLION.

How could it be worse?

But you didn't bother to see where this debt came from, did you lum nuts? Oh pay attention to the tax cuts because with trumps proposal you're going to see the debt go up, up up. He added 800 billion for defense and Trump is asking for more?

How Much Did Obama Add to the Nation's Debt?

Depending on who you ask, President Obama added anywhere from $983 billion to $9 trillion to the national debt. Who's lying? None of them. That's because there are three ways to look at the debt added by any president.

The first, and most common, method is to subtract the debt level when he took office from the debt level when he left. The second, and more accurate, method is to add together his projected budget deficits.

The third method is the fairest but also the most complicated. It’s to add only the deficits created by the president's specific initiatives.

Review these three methods below. Then, you'll be able to win any argument made about how much President Obama added to the national debt.

Method 1. Debt Added Since Obama Took Office
The largest number comes from calculating how much the debt increased during Obama's two terms. On January 20, 2009, when he was sworn in, the debt was $10.626 trillion. On January 20, 2017, it was $19.947 trillion. That's why most people say Obama added $9 trillion to the debt, more than any other president. For more, see Why Is the U.S. Debt So Large?

Method 2. Obama's Budget Deficits
It's a little misleading to hold Obama (or any other president) accountable for the deficit incurred during his first year of office. That's because the previous administration already set the federal budget for that fiscal year.


Before Obama took office, President Bush's last budget (FY 2009) created a deficit of $1.16 trillion. That fiscal year began on October 1, 2008, and continued until September 30, 2009. That means most of that deficit occurred after Obama took office in January. It's not accurate to attribute it to him.

• FY 2009 - Even though the budget had been approved, Congress added emergency funding to stop the Great Recession. It added the first year's worth of spending from Obama's Economic Stimulus Act to the FY 2009 budget. That $253 billion accrues to Obama.
• FY 2010 - Obama's first budget created a $1.294 trillion deficit.
• FY 2011 - This budget contributed $1.3 trillion to the debt.
• FY 2012 - The deficit was $1.087 trillion.
• FY 2013 - This was the first Obama budget where the deficit, $679 billion, was less than $1 trillion. Thank sequestration, which forced a 10 percent cut in spending.
• FY 2014 - The deficit was $485 billion.
• FY 2015 - The deficit fell further, to $438 billion.
• FY 2016 - The deficit is expected to be $600 billion
• FY 2017 (Current Budget) - The deficit is projected to be $441 billion.

When the deficits from all these budgets are added together, President Obama increased the debt by $6.576 trillion.

Method 3. How Obama's Policies Increased the Debt
Is it fair to blame any president for events over which he had no control? During Obama's terms, there was less federal income than usual. That is because the recession and the Bush tax cuts reduced tax receipts. At the same time, the cost of Social Security, Medicare, and other mandatory programs continued to increase.

The War on Terror, although technically over, was still being fought in Afghanistan and Iraq.

The fairest method is to measure the debt incurred by Obama's specific policies. The Congressional Budget Office does this for every program. The CBO found that the largest contributor to the debt was the Obama tax cuts, which were an extension of the Bush tax cuts. They added $858 billion to the debt in 2011 and 2012.

The next largest was the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act. It added $787 billion between 2009 and 2012. It cut taxes, extended unemployment benefits, and funded job-creating public works projects. Like the Obama tax cuts, the ARRA was an attempt to stimulate the economy after the 2008 financial crisis

Obama increased military spending to an average of $800 billion a year. In fact, his security budget request of $895 billion in FY 2011 set a new record.

In FY 2013, he requested $851 billion. That happened even though he withdrew troops from Iraq in 2012 and eliminated the threat from Osama bin Laden in 2011. Obama spent $857 billion in contingency funds during his administration. That was more than the $850 billion Bush devoted to the War on Terror.

What about the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act? It didn't add anything to the debt in Obama's first term. That's because most of its costs began in 2014. That's when it set up health insurance exchanges and extended coverage to more low-income people. In fact, tax increases offset costs to the tune of $104 billion between 2010 and 2019. For more, see Obamacare Costs.

Congress and Obama also negotiated the sequestration budget cuts. They cut the deficit by a small percent. When all these are added up, Obama's debt contribution was $983 billion between 2009 and 2017. (Source: Ezra Klein, "Doing the Math on Obama's Deficits," The Wall Street Journal, January 31, 2014.)

 

[debbiedowner]

Serious question: Back during the campaign, those of us who were not voting for Trump didn't believe that he'd be able to follow through on a pretty significant percentage of his promises. We were mocked, of course, but now that we know the ACA won't be repealed, that Mexico won't be paying for the wall, that Trump even backed out of requiring WE fund the wall, and that he's softening on NAFTA and NATO and other issues, I'd like to know:

Have you thought about how much leeway you'll give him on his promises before you'd stop supporting him?
.

You're sounding like the typical regressive. Trump is in his first hundred days, not his last. NATO partners have agreed to up their defense spending to the required levels in the treaty and agreed to do more on terrorism. Trumps trade rep just got confirmed and hasn't even had time to get acquainted with his office. ACA replacement may be voted on as early as this week. Your crap is as weak as nats.

He said he was going to REPEAL the ACA, have Mexico pay for the wall, and get out of NAFTA.

Are any of those going to happen?
.

Probably not. He can't just just change the ACA he has to fully repeal and Mexico isn't paying for any wall and he back tracked on NAFTA yesterday. Not to mention his daughter and son-in-law wants him to accept Syrian refugees.

Well, regarding the ACA, I suspect there's more going on there than we know. I think Trump was fed a bowl of crap about being able to repeal it, and was just let loose to run with it. Those on the inside had to know damn well they couldn't do a full repeal. So now he's left out there to dangle in the wind. But it looks like he'll be forgiven for it.
.

Ryan played him like a fiddle.

I agree and it really doesn't look like the majority of the congress really want it repealed.

 

[Markle]

Obama inherited a contracting economy during the worst recession since 1935. Naturally, when those numbers are lumped in with 2014-2017 economic growth, the resulting "average" is skewed.

All you want to count is the last two years of the administration of petulant former President Barack Hussein Obama. Great! Then all we count for the President George Bush administration is the first SEVEN YEARS. Okay?

 

[debbiedowner]

Serious question: Back during the campaign, those of us who were not voting for Trump didn't believe that he'd be able to follow through on a pretty significant percentage of his promises. We were mocked, of course, but now that we know the ACA won't be repealed, that Mexico won't be paying for the wall, that Trump even backed out of requiring WE fund the wall, and that he's softening on NAFTA and NATO and other issues, I'd like to know:

Have you thought about how much leeway you'll give him on his promises before you'd stop supporting him?
.

You're sounding like the typical regressive. Trump is in his first hundred days, not his last. NATO partners have agreed to up their defense spending to the required levels in the treaty and agreed to do more on terrorism. Trumps trade rep just got confirmed and hasn't even had time to get acquainted with his office. ACA replacement may be voted on as early as this week. Your crap is as weak as nats.

He said he was going to REPEAL the ACA, have Mexico pay for the wall, and get out of NAFTA.

Are any of those going to happen?
.

Probably not. He can't just just change the ACA he has to fully repeal and Mexico isn't paying for any wall and he back tracked on NAFTA yesterday. Not to mention his daughter and son-in-law wants him to accept Syrian refugees.

Well, regarding the ACA, I suspect there's more going on there than we know. I think Trump was fed a bowl of crap about being able to repeal it, and was just let loose to run with it. Those on the inside had to know damn well they couldn't do a full repeal. So now he's left out there to dangle in the wind. But it looks like he'll be forgiven for it.
.

Well if you remember alot of the right in D.C. did not want him as Pres and came on late with their endorsements. He said things about them on the campaign trail and now payback is hell. Trump, like most American's didn't realize congress runs the country not the President.

That's what gets me for all the people that wanted a change, so they vote all congress and senate back in. You could have had Trump with a different congress.

 

[TyroneSlothrop]

George W Bush's ethics lawyer calls for Donald Trump's impeachment
Source: Independent


White House refuses to hand over documents relating to former National Security Advisor's foreign payments

Samuel Osborne Thursday 27 April 2017 12:22



George W Bush's chief ethics lawyer has called for Donald Trump to be impeached if he doesn't comply with Congress's demand to release documents relating to Michael Flynn.

"US House must subpoena the docs," Richard W Painter wrote on Twitter. "If no compliance, impeach."

"Zero tolerance for WH covering up foreign payoffs."

Mr Painter was commenting on the news Mr Trump's former National Security Advisor had likely broken the law by not disclosing payments from Russia and Turkey, according to the chairman of the House Oversight Committee.

“As a former military officer, you simply cannot take money from Russia, Turkey or anybody else. And it appears as if he did take that money. It was inappropriate. And there are repercussions for the violation of law,” Republican representative Jason Chaffetz told reporters after a classified meeting with the committee.
..........

Read more: George W Bush's ethics lawyer calls for Trump's impeachment

 

[Mac1958]

You're sounding like the typical regressive. Trump is in his first hundred days, not his last. NATO partners have agreed to up their defense spending to the required levels in the treaty and agreed to do more on terrorism. Trumps trade rep just got confirmed and hasn't even had time to get acquainted with his office. ACA replacement may be voted on as early as this week. Your crap is as weak as nats.

He said he was going to REPEAL the ACA, have Mexico pay for the wall, and get out of NAFTA.

Are any of those going to happen?
.

Probably not. He can't just just change the ACA he has to fully repeal and Mexico isn't paying for any wall and he back tracked on NAFTA yesterday. Not to mention his daughter and son-in-law wants him to accept Syrian refugees.

Well, regarding the ACA, I suspect there's more going on there than we know. I think Trump was fed a bowl of crap about being able to repeal it, and was just let loose to run with it. Those on the inside had to know damn well they couldn't do a full repeal. So now he's left out there to dangle in the wind. But it looks like he'll be forgiven for it.
.

Ryan played him like a fiddle.

I agree and it really doesn't look like the majority of the congress really want it repealed.

That's what happens you have eight years to come up with something, and can't.



It makes it tougher when there are good things you can do, but you're not "allowed" to by your base.
.

 

[OKTexas]

Serious question: Back during the campaign, those of us who were not voting for Trump didn't believe that he'd be able to follow through on a pretty significant percentage of his promises. We were mocked, of course, but now that we know the ACA won't be repealed, that Mexico won't be paying for the wall, that Trump even backed out of requiring WE fund the wall, and that he's softening on NAFTA and NATO and other issues, I'd like to know:

Have you thought about how much leeway you'll give him on his promises before you'd stop supporting him?
.

You're sounding like the typical regressive. Trump is in his first hundred days, not his last. NATO partners have agreed to up their defense spending to the required levels in the treaty and agreed to do more on terrorism. Trumps trade rep just got confirmed and hasn't even had time to get acquainted with his office. ACA replacement may be voted on as early as this week. Your crap is as weak as nats.

He said he was going to REPEAL the ACA, have Mexico pay for the wall, and get out of NAFTA.

Are any of those going to happen?
.

Probably not. He can't just just change the ACA he has to fully repeal and Mexico isn't paying for any wall and he back tracked on NAFTA yesterday. Not to mention his daughter and son-in-law wants him to accept Syrian refugees.

You're making assumptions, and what do Syrian refugees have have to do with anything, Trump has said all along they would be accepted after proper vetting.

 

[debbiedowner]

He said he was going to REPEAL the ACA, have Mexico pay for the wall, and get out of NAFTA.

Are any of those going to happen?
.

Probably not. He can't just just change the ACA he has to fully repeal and Mexico isn't paying for any wall and he back tracked on NAFTA yesterday. Not to mention his daughter and son-in-law wants him to accept Syrian refugees.

Well, regarding the ACA, I suspect there's more going on there than we know. I think Trump was fed a bowl of crap about being able to repeal it, and was just let loose to run with it. Those on the inside had to know damn well they couldn't do a full repeal. So now he's left out there to dangle in the wind. But it looks like he'll be forgiven for it.
.

Ryan played him like a fiddle.

I agree and it really doesn't look like the majority of the congress really want it repealed.

That's what happens you have eight years to come up with something, and can't.



It makes it tougher when there are good things you can do, but you're not "allowed" to by your base.
.

The base just didn't vote the right people in congress and senate to go along with Trump. If you want change you have to get rid of all of them not just one.

 

[debbiedowner]

Obama inherited a contracting economy during the worst recession since 1935. Naturally, when those numbers are lumped in with 2014-2017 economic growth, the resulting "average" is skewed.

All you want to count is the last two years of the administration of petulant former President Barack Hussein Obama. Great! Then all we count for the President George Bush administration is the first SEVEN YEARS. Okay?

And you sir, and I say that lightly, are part of the problem and I suppose you have always been, instead of a solution.

 

[debbiedowner]

Serious question: Back during the campaign, those of us who were not voting for Trump didn't believe that he'd be able to follow through on a pretty significant percentage of his promises. We were mocked, of course, but now that we know the ACA won't be repealed, that Mexico won't be paying for the wall, that Trump even backed out of requiring WE fund the wall, and that he's softening on NAFTA and NATO and other issues, I'd like to know:

Have you thought about how much leeway you'll give him on his promises before you'd stop supporting him?
.

You're sounding like the typical regressive. Trump is in his first hundred days, not his last. NATO partners have agreed to up their defense spending to the required levels in the treaty and agreed to do more on terrorism. Trumps trade rep just got confirmed and hasn't even had time to get acquainted with his office. ACA replacement may be voted on as early as this week. Your crap is as weak as nats.

He said he was going to REPEAL the ACA, have Mexico pay for the wall, and get out of NAFTA.

Are any of those going to happen?
.

Probably not. He can't just just change the ACA he has to fully repeal and Mexico isn't paying for any wall and he back tracked on NAFTA yesterday. Not to mention his daughter and son-in-law wants him to accept Syrian refugees.

You're making assumptions, and what do Syrian refugees have have to do with anything, Trump has said all along they would be accepted after proper vetting.

Hell you better go over to infowars and listen to Alex Jones, he went on a rant about the dem Kushner and independent Ivanka just about this same subject. Isn't that where all you righties hang out, infowars?

Alex can't be wrong, can he?

 

[Markle]

He promised he was going to repeal the ACA, make Mexico pay for a new wall, and get out of NAFTA.

Do those ring a bell?

And he still has seven and three-quarter years to finish too.

 

[OKTexas]

I voted for Trump because he pissed libs off the most.

Yes, that's a good example of the kind of depth I was expecting, thanks.
.

Out of context quotes, how regressive of you.

 

[Mac1958]

I voted for Trump because he pissed libs off the most.

Yes, that's a good example of the kind of depth I was expecting, thanks.
.

Out of context quotes, how regressive of you.

How is that out of context?
.

 

[Markle]

My words are right there on the screen: "Make Mexico pay for a new wall", not that it hasn't been built yet.

I can't make you understand clear English.

Really?

 

[Mac1958]

My words are right there on the screen: "Make Mexico pay for a new wall", not that it hasn't been built yet.

I can't make you understand clear English.

Really?

Yes.
.

 

[Indeependent]

Serious question: Back during the campaign, those of us who were not voting for Trump didn't believe that he'd be able to follow through on a pretty significant percentage of his promises. We were mocked, of course, but now that we know the ACA won't be repealed, that Mexico won't be paying for the wall, that Trump even backed out of requiring WE fund the wall, and that he's softening on NAFTA and NATO and other issues, I'd like to know:

Have you thought about how much leeway you'll give him on his promises before you'd stop supporting him?
.

You're sounding like the typical regressive. Trump is in his first hundred days, not his last. NATO partners have agreed to up their defense spending to the required levels in the treaty and agreed to do more on terrorism. Trumps trade rep just got confirmed and hasn't even had time to get acquainted with his office. ACA replacement may be voted on as early as this week. Your crap is as weak as nats.

He said he was going to REPEAL the ACA, have Mexico pay for the wall, and get out of NAFTA.

Are any of those going to happen?
.

Probably not. He can't just just change the ACA he has to fully repeal and Mexico isn't paying for any wall and he back tracked on NAFTA yesterday. Not to mention his daughter and son-in-law wants him to accept Syrian refugees.

It's obvious you cherry pick from InfoWars...InfoWars hates everyone.
You're making assumptions, and what do Syrian refugees have have to do with anything, Trump has said all along they would be accepted after proper vetting.

Hell you better go over to infowars and listen to Alex Jones, he went on a rant about the dem Kushner and independent Ivanka just about this same subject. Isn't that where all you righties hang out, infowars?

Alex can't be wrong, can he?

 

[OKTexas]

George W Bush's ethics lawyer calls for Donald Trump's impeachment
Source: Independent


White House refuses to hand over documents relating to former National Security Advisor's foreign payments

Samuel Osborne Thursday 27 April 2017 12:22



George W Bush's chief ethics lawyer has called for Donald Trump to be impeached if he doesn't comply with Congress's demand to release documents relating to Michael Flynn.

"US House must subpoena the docs," Richard W Painter wrote on Twitter. "If no compliance, impeach."

"Zero tolerance for WH covering up foreign payoffs."

Mr Painter was commenting on the news Mr Trump's former National Security Advisor had likely broken the law by not disclosing payments from Russia and Turkey, according to the chairman of the House Oversight Committee.

“As a former military officer, you simply cannot take money from Russia, Turkey or anybody else. And it appears as if he did take that money. It was inappropriate. And there are repercussions for the violation of law,” Republican representative Jason Chaffetz told reporters after a classified meeting with the committee.
..........

Read more: George W Bush's ethics lawyer calls for Trump's impeachment

I guess if you ignore reality you might have a point. The WH doesn't have the documents requested, they were processed by the prior administration. Also Flynn didn't take money form foreign governments.

 

[Doc1]

George W Bush's ethics lawyer calls for Donald Trump's impeachment
Source: Independent


White House refuses to hand over documents relating to former National Security Advisor's foreign payments

Samuel Osborne Thursday 27 April 2017 12:22



George W Bush's chief ethics lawyer has called for Donald Trump to be impeached if he doesn't comply with Congress's demand to release documents relating to Michael Flynn.

"US House must subpoena the docs," Richard W Painter wrote on Twitter. "If no compliance, impeach."

"Zero tolerance for WH covering up foreign payoffs."

Mr Painter was commenting on the news Mr Trump's former National Security Advisor had likely broken the law by not disclosing payments from Russia and Turkey, according to the chairman of the House Oversight Committee.

“As a former military officer, you simply cannot take money from Russia, Turkey or anybody else. And it appears as if he did take that money. It was inappropriate. And there are repercussions for the violation of law,” Republican representative Jason Chaffetz told reporters after a classified meeting with the committee.
..........

Read more: George W Bush's ethics lawyer calls for Trump's impeachment

I guess if you ignore reality you might have a point. The WH doesn't have the documents requested, they were processed by the prior administration. Also Flynn didn't take money form foreign governments.

Oh stop, Ty's leaders told them to cry about this new feaux scandal so he has to.

 

[imawhosure]

Serious question: Back during the campaign, those of us who were not voting for Trump didn't believe that he'd be able to follow through on a pretty significant percentage of his promises. We were mocked, of course, but now that we know the ACA won't be repealed, that Mexico won't be paying for the wall, that Trump even backed out of requiring WE fund the wall, and that he's softening on NAFTA and NATO and other issues, I'd like to know:

Have you thought about how much leeway you'll give him on his promises before you'd stop supporting him?
.

1. He wasn't elected out of policy platforms, Hillary was defeated, there is a difference.

2. The Republican/independent voters are tired of the promises the Republicans made to them, and never followed through. Trump was the best of the non-politicians running on the Repub side, and Hillary was the worst politician from either side. Ergo, Trump pulled a rabbit out of the proverbial hat.

3. Being a non politician, I give him leeway. He obviously didn't know what he can, and can not do. And, when he is told he can do something, the Democrats take him to court......a very lefty court, and stop him. That is not his fault, just like it was not Obama's fault the court stopped him from closing GITMO.

4. His ideas on foreign policy were likely to HAVE to change.

Why?

Because their isn't a regular citizen I know who is privy to the intel that Washington gets. Most all of those foreign policy positions were put forth, long before he got any briefs. Donald Trump had the same thought processes on the matter most of us have, because he had the same INFORMATION we had too. Now he doesn't, he knows what is really going on. We still don't know, although I see a lot of people on here try and pretend they do. If I have to defer to someone who now has all the facts, I would rather defer to someone who held MY position to start with, because if they changed their mind after seeing all the facts, they must have very good reason.

5. The wall.......which seems to be a big deal to most people! Do I think Trump has the same position on illegal immigration I do? Yes I do! Do we actually need a wall to stop illegal immigration, or at least bring it close to a standstill? I don't think so.

So when somebody says wall to me, I ask would I rather have a wall with Hillary as President and her views on illegal immigration, or no wall and Trump as President; for just the immigration issue alone!

A wall doesn't stop anyone if the people on this side of it make those bricks the only barrier. Obama proved that! So I am of the opinion that the wall is just a symbol; a very expensive symbol, but a symbol just the same.

I would ask both Democrats and Republicans a pertinent question, and they would give absolutely opposing answers, watch----------> What would you rather have in the next 24 months, and you MUST choose one, which means you will NOT get the other, but whichever you DO choose, the other doesn't happen--------->

QUESTION-----------> Choose 1 of the two, and the other does not happen, but you MUST choose 1----------> Wall starts being built, or...............criminal deportations down to and including DUI begin happening!

6. Repeal Obamacare. Excuse me, but that is NOT what he said, he said, "repeal and replace." Now I have another question-------> if he is to keep his word, what can he possibly replace it with that is cheaper, and better? What was the number 1 thing every conservative on this board insisted upon when Obamacare was winding its way through congress?

Let me refresh your memories Republicans-----------> (and I am paraphrasing here) THERE is NO way by the law of economics, that you can cover more people, for LESS money, and get better healthcare.

Do you Republicans REMEMBER saying that, yes or no!

Well Republicans, it was ECONOMICS, not President Obama that made your statements accurate. So now then, does Trump not go by the same law of economics? Do you actually believe that ANY politician (or businessperson/politician) is going to remove healthcare from even 5 million people who will now INSTANTLY vote against him/her, and their party?

So the reality is-----------> you can call it Obamacare, you can call it Trumpcare, or you can call it Martiancare, because it makes NO DIFFERENCE. We are STUCK with some form of this, and if we were just to repeal it, the House, Senate, and Presidency would turn quickly after all those pissed off people went to the polls, and the leftists would put it back in, and worse! You have got to face reality! I am not suggesting you have to like it, but face reality you must.

I knew this going in! Think I am wrong? Well then, give me a plan that saves money, (good luck with that alone) keeps most everyone insured, and the government isn't involved in a very heavy manner. Try it! Can't do it! As far as lower drug prices, how are you going to do that without government involvement?
So this repeal of Obamacare should be a non starter. Make it better, yes. More involvement from the private sector, yes. But, we allowed the Democrats to basically create a new entitlement, and now someone can just snap their fingers and take it away. Change it from Obamacare to Social Security or Medicare, and you will see exactly how absurd demanding this is. Of course Trump was full of it for making it seem as if he could do it, but then Bernie was telling everyone he was going to give them free college, and Hillary was going single payer, so I suppose non of them were very upfront, now were they.

So finally, let me answer your original question Mac!

Yes, I could easily turn and have enough of Trump. How? Easy! Each and every time he does something, I ask myself---------> What would Obama or Hillary do in the same situation! We have 8 years of Obama's choices, and Hillary was going to give us 4 more of that by her own campaign speeches.

And so--------->when he starts making choices that Hillary and Obama would make, then I have had enough because going back to my 1st paragraph---------->the only reason he was elected was to stop Hillary and a 3rd term of Obama. As another wise poster said--------->we would have elected Tiny Tim over Hillary, and that about sums it up. Everything positive Trump gives us over and above is just icing on the cake!

Good stuff, thanks. I had forgotten about #2, there was certainly a lot of anger from many in the party that their elected officials had let them down, and they wanted to give those people a wake up call.

And yes, when a conservative is comparing most of what Trump does to most of what Hillary or Bernie would have done, I can see where that would be a net positive, certainly.

There seems to be a separation between the individual issues taken as a whole, and the overall message Trump represents. The message (and I admit I still don't really get, when his behaviors are included) seems to be more important than the issues, so he's more likely to be forgiven for going back on his promises.

I don't know. I guess we'll know it if it happens, if it happens.
.

Mac, this is probably NOT the thread for it, but I would like you to consider a few things-------->

Remember GW, lol. He was suppose to have been a conservative, but think-------->besides his tax cuts, what did he do that was conservative? What did he change back? Was he actually pushing the country down a conservative road at all, or was he just a placeholder? (wait, he did put in John Roberts. Did he put in any others? I don't remember)

Now look at Trump. He is really NOT a conservative. I know this, and I am sure you know it too. What has he done!

1. Trashed thousands of regulations.

2. Turning back land the government seized to the states.

3. Got men out of the womens bathrooms.

4. Got a renegotiation of NAFTA.

5. Put a supposed conservative judge on SCOTUS.

6. Tried to stop possible terrorists from coming in with a temp ban.

7. Strengthened the border to try and stop illegals from crossing.

8. Has done everything in his power to put pressure on sanctuary cities.

9. Has put forth a simplified tax plan that no matter what the rates end up being, will help to finally get rid of lobbyists.

10. Has basically started negotiations with China.

No, he hasn't kept all his promises, but he sure is trying to do more than GW did. And what he is doing is far more conservative than GW ever thought of. I am intrigued that his policy, is more conservative than anyone since Reagan; and Trump isn't even a conservative.

Just think Mac, when he started rescinding all of those orders of Obama, and now wants to take a look at the antiquities acts since 96, it should tell you ONE TRUTH that all Democrats deny--------->how far LEFT the country has moved! If someone would have told you in 1970, that YOUR federal government was going to STEAL land larger than the state of Rhode Island from another state, what would you have said! How about if they told you they were going to let men go into the bathroom with your wife, even when she doesn't like it.......and in fact, not only let, but DEMAND that your wife let them in! Or how about all of those years we tried to become energy independent, and now they say it is better we aren't unless we pay through the nose for the governments choice of the type of energy they want!

Dude, we would have said reading that there was a mistake, and that was somewhere in Eastern Europe, not here in the USA! That is how far LEFT the Democratic party has gone, and the Republicans are moving LEFT with them, lol. Whenever some leftist on here says those infamous words about how far RIGHT the country has gone, I know 1 of 2 things-------->he/she is lying through their teeth to make political points.....or.........they are young and have absolutely no idea what America and the Democratic party was just 35 or 40 years ago. Hell, I was a Democrat, and happy to be one up until 1980! (still voted for BJC though the 2nd time around)

Anyway, point is--------->Trump is NOT rightwing, it is just these young people have lived in a time when the bar was moved so far left, they believe someone who is pretty close to the center, is a far, right, winger!