Resurrection!

[anwin]

Hi everyone,

Christians believe that Jesus died and then resurrected and went to heaven in his body.

God is spirit. Adam, Noah, Abraham, Moses, David, Solomon, Daniel and all saints and prophets who have died presumably now live in spirit in heaven. All other subsequent Christian saints, popes and other good people also live in spirit in heaven. Why is only Jesus living in his body in heaven?

Jews do not believe in any heaven or hell or in a soul. They believe that only God lives in spirit. All humans die and then regain their body at the time of the coming of the Messiah. When the Messiah comes...all saints and good people resurrect...rise from their graves...regain their bodies and then live on forever in the kingdom of God on earth. This is their belief.

Christians on the other hand believe that all humans have souls which leaves the body at the time of death. They believe that all good souls go to heaven and all bad souls go to hell....for all eternity.

It is possible that in the case of Jesus....people took the idea of the Jewish resurrection and the Christian idea of heaven ...and combined them both such that Jesus is believed to live in heaven in his body!

What do you think?

anwin

 

[Hawkins]

Hi everyone,

Christians believe that Jesus died and then resurrected and went to heaven in his body.

God is spirit. Adam, Noah, Abraham, Moses, David, Solomon, Daniel and all saints and prophets who have died presumably now live in spirit in heaven. All other subsequent Christian saints, popes and other good people also live in spirit in heaven. Why is only Jesus living in his body in heaven?

Jews do not believe in any heaven or hell or in a soul. They believe that only God lives in spirit. All humans die and then regain their body at the time of the coming of the Messiah. When the Messiah comes...all saints and good people resurrect...rise from their graves...regain their bodies and then live on forever in the kingdom of God on earth. This is their belief.

Christians on the other hand believe that all humans have souls which leaves the body at the time of death. They believe that all good souls go to heaven and all bad souls go to hell....for all eternity.

It is possible that in the case of Jesus....people took the idea of the Jewish resurrection and the Christian idea of heaven ...and combined them both such that Jesus is believed to live in heaven in his body!

What do you think?

anwin

Your claim here is false. Read Josephus' work to get a clue about the Jewish sects.

Jews in majority believe souls and hell and stuff like that as this is s Pharisaic concept. And Pharisaic concept dominates the Jews till AD 70. After AD 70, most elite Pharisees were supposed to be killed. Their school of thoughts faded out anyway.

Modern Judaism was revived by a group of rabbis (likely from Egypt) who don't seem to follow the Pharisaic concept. They adapt more of the Sadducee concept in this regard. That's why today's Jews seem no longer pursue the Pharisaic concept about souls and hell.

 

[easyt65]

1. Be careful saying 'Christians', as it seems you are saying ALL Christians, which is not the case...especially in regards to your question. You say numerous times 'they believe', this is 'their belief', etc. I am here to tell you, No, it is NOT all of their belief.

2. I believe Jesus Christ died on the cross. I do not believe Christ's spirit was in His body when they wrapped his body and laid it in the tomb. When Christ arose 3 days later it was because his spirit returned into His body so that he could fulfill the prophecy that on the 3rd day he would arise. He, in his body, was then seen numerous times after that until he made his final ascention.

Many people believe diffrent things.
- Some say they see a bright light when you die while others do not.

My brother was dying of a terminal illness when he had an experience - I believe God may have shown his this to put him at peace in knowing he would be going to heaven. My brother woke up grasing for breath as we came in the room one morning. He says he was suddenly standing in the country and in front of him was our deceased grandmother - who had been bed-ridden in the last days before her death - working in her own garden. She turned and asked him what he was doing there, that he shouldn't be there yet. He asked her where out dad was and was told that he would be coming along soon, that not everyone goes straight there (where she was). They talked for a few minutes until she told him he had to go back ... but that he would be coming back soon. He then woke up gasping for air. Within a week he passed away. I can not explain what he experienced or why it was different for him than others have descrived it.

Many of these things have been scientifically proven. Many things in the Bible have and continue to be proven. I also believe there are things we will NEVER know until we pass away.

 

[defcon4]

Hi everyone,

Christians believe that Jesus died and then resurrected and went to heaven in his body.

God is spirit. Adam, Noah, Abraham, Moses, David, Solomon, Daniel and all saints and prophets who have died presumably now live in spirit in heaven. All other subsequent Christian saints, popes and other good people also live in spirit in heaven. Why is only Jesus living in his body in heaven?

Jews do not believe in any heaven or hell or in a soul. They believe that only God lives in spirit. All humans die and then regain their body at the time of the coming of the Messiah. When the Messiah comes...all saints and good people resurrect...rise from their graves...regain their bodies and then live on forever in the kingdom of God on earth. This is their belief.

Christians on the other hand believe that all humans have souls which leaves the body at the time of death. They believe that all good souls go to heaven and all bad souls go to hell....for all eternity.

It is possible that in the case of Jesus....people took the idea of the Jewish resurrection and the Christian idea of heaven ...and combined them both such that Jesus is believed to live in heaven in his body!

What do you think?

anwin

I think that you have no idea what you are talking about. Superficial thinking gives erroneous results.

 

[The Irish Ram]

Hi everyone,

Christians believe that Jesus died and then resurrected and went to heaven in his body.

God is spirit. Adam, Noah, Abraham, Moses, David, Solomon, Daniel and all saints and prophets who have died presumably now live in spirit in heaven. All other subsequent Christian saints, popes and other good people also live in spirit in heaven. Why is only Jesus living in his body in heaven?

Jews do not believe in any heaven or hell or in a soul. They believe that only God lives in spirit. All humans die and then regain their body at the time of the coming of the Messiah. When the Messiah comes...all saints and good people resurrect...rise from their graves...regain their bodies and then live on forever in the kingdom of God on earth. This is their belief.

Christians on the other hand believe that all humans have souls which leaves the body at the time of death. They believe that all good souls go to heaven and all bad souls go to hell....for all eternity.

It is possible that in the case of Jesus....people took the idea of the Jewish resurrection and the Christian idea of heaven ...and combined them both such that Jesus is believed to live in heaven in his body!

What do you think?

anwin

I think you understand things a little better than most. There were two views in the Jewish Temple. The Pharisee and the Sadducees. The latter didn't believe in a resurrection or afterlife.

Christ returned in his "glorified" albeit it scarred body, the terrestrial part being made immortal. Same body, different attributes. For one, a glorified body is not bound by 4 dimensions, and can appear and disappear in any dimension at will just like Christ did. When we see him, (rapture) we will be like him.

When we step out of our terrestrial shell upon it's demise, we function in our spirit form until we are reunited with our former, but transformed bodies prior to returning to earth with Christ.
The exact thing happened when Christ returned with the spirits that had been waiting for Him in Abraham's Bosom. The stones in front of their graves were moved by the earthquake that occurred while Christ was being crucified. They were also reunited with their glorified clay exterior.

Bravo on doing homework, anwin.

 

[The Irish Ram]

1. Be careful saying 'Christians', as it seems you are saying ALL Christians, which is not the case...especially in regards to your question. You say numerous times 'they believe', this is 'their belief', etc. I am here to tell you, No, it is NOT all of their belief.

2. I believe Jesus Christ died on the cross. I do not believe Christ's spirit was in His body when they wrapped his body and laid it in the tomb. When Christ arose 3 days later it was because his spirit returned into His body so that he could fulfill the prophecy that on the 3rd day he would arise. He, in his body, was then seen numerous times after that until he made his final ascention.

Many people believe diffrent things.
- Some say they see a bright light when you die while others do not.

My brother was dying of a terminal illness when he had an experience - I believe God may have shown his this to put him at peace in knowing he would be going to heaven. My brother woke up grasing for breath as we came in the room one morning. He says he was suddenly standing in the country and in front of him was our deceased grandmother - who had been bed-ridden in the last days before her death - working in her own garden. She turned and asked him what he was doing there, that he shouldn't be there yet. He asked her where out dad was and was told that he would be coming along soon, that not everyone goes straight there (where she was). They talked for a few minutes until she told him he had to go back ... but that he would be coming back soon. He then woke up gasping for air. Within a week he passed away. I can not explain what he experienced or why it was different for him than others have descrived it.

Many of these things have been scientifically proven. Many things in the Bible have and continue to be proven. I also believe there are things we will NEVER know until we pass away.

Easy, I'm so sorry for your loss. I've lost my brother too. It's hard to see them go.

My mom wasn't feeling well one evening. I was sitting on the bed talking to her and all of a sudden she looked right over my right shoulder, and said, "Grandma!" So I called the ambulance because I knew why Grandma was there. Mom died in the ambulance.

When my Dad was dying of cancer, he just rested comfortably, waiting for the end in a semi comatose state. Then all of a sudden with his last breath here on earth, in a clear strong voice, he asked whomever came for him, "Am I dead?".
I know he asked my brother that question. I knew Mike would be the one to walk Dad across. Before I could ask Dad who he was seeing, daddy was gone. I think that question is the #1 question asked, when our spirit leaves it's shell.

What a wonderful Father we have to keep our loved ones in His loving care until we can be reunited with them all.

 

[HaShev]

1) the NT said he descended to hades 1 peter 3:19,
Acts 2:27, Apostles Creed.
But he told Mary to lie for him and say he ascened to his father-John 20:1-17
2)the Roman formed one world religion teaches both ressurection back to life and Egyptian underworld/greek death cultism because they are converging all cultures faiths appeasing everyone.
3) They borrowed and plsgiarized the Judaic concept of Resurrection from the predated OT Rabbi with similar name Yohoshua ben Chananiah(?spell?).
4) Yeshu son of Mary of 190 bc, used for a portion of the converged figure Jesus, had learned Egyptian underworld teachings when fleeing the King Jannaeus persecution of Pharisee during the Pharisee revolt.

So on one hand Rome is appeasing the greek death cultist and the other trying to appeal to the transhumanists and naturalists.
They require keeping their paradise in death beliefs as a means to get people to defend and die for their kingdom.
Also as a way to explaining their failed dying god.-oops.

 

[The Irish Ram]

Christ went to Abraham's Bosom and spoke to those in Hades. There was a great chasm between the two. Those in Abraham's bosom were those who belonged to God, but couldn't go to Heaven until their sins had been paid for by the blood of God's Lamb. Abraham and David and the others returned to earth with Christ and remained for 40 days and then accompanied Christ when He ascended to the Father in Heaven. Those in Hades remain there and will be brought forth at the White Throne Judgment to plead their case.

 

[HaShev]

There's so many things wrong with that statement, where do I start?
1- it contradicts the bible saying innocent blood can't wash away our sins.
2- the blood of the lamb shtick proves to be problematic because the passover lamb was made a mockery of the Egyptian lamb idol god , so you'd be admiting Jesus represented idol god of the Egyptians which by teachings and borrowed mythology is actually true.
3- Jesus claimed to have the keys to the gates of hell, in Rev it says that's the devil.
4-perdition means descending to hades, therefore everything in Ezekiel 28 about Lucifer matches exactly to Jesus & only Jesus being that son of perdition, no other prophet was called anointed (christ)
cherub(guardian/nazarene) and perfect (sinless) -Ezekiel 28:14-15.

 

[anwin]

I don't think anyone has addressed the point I was trying to make.

1. Jesus is believed to have resurrected in his body after death. Fine. In this case...he should be living on earth as the Jews believe. The very point of resurrection into the physical body is only to live eternally on earth.

2. Heaven is a place for the spirit/soul... not for the physical body. All other people like Moses, Abraham etc....besides God himself and his angels...live in heaven in spirit. During the transfiguration Moses is said to have appeared along with Jesus to the devotees. Moses was obviously in spirit. Everyone who dies ...lies on in spirit.

Only Jesus (no one else absolutely) lives in the physical body in heaven...which must be....rather inconvenient.

3. Since the idea of resurrection into the physical body.... and the idea of spiritual living in heaven ....are two very different (incompatible) concepts...it is obvious that both the ideas have been combined in the case of Jesus....to believe that Jesus lives in his physical body in heaven.

Any views on that?

anwin

 

[HaShev]

I have addressed this,
1) the stories are borrowed mythologies
2) everything has a process the 2 beliefs means
Pagans cultures who belived in life in death in the sky means they would reside in another planet. The Judaic they return to life on earth, so another time line. And both these can be a process of holding the memory, thus nature if the being in nano tech computer or similar storage (limbo) till time placed back at either.

People never dwell in the hows and whats nor process , nor look at all angles. However we are told not to choose paradise in death or sky because that is a troublesome teaching as we see by the influence the death cultism has has on society including fueling todays radicals who have the same beliefs as Christians in afterlife paradise through death.
That teaching allowed kings and kingdoms to supress the masses & send it's pawns to die for them by promising them rewards in death.

 

[zaangalewa]

Hi everyone,

Christians believe that Jesus died and then resurrected and went to heaven in his body.

God is spirit.

Yes and no. I would say the gift of spirit comes from god - but not every spirit is godly.

Adam, Noah, Abraham, Moses, David, Solomon, Daniel and all saints and prophets who have died presumably now live in spirit in heaven.

No. Now in our time they are only dead. But they will not be dead forever. Love is more mighty than death and time.

All other subsequent Christian saints, popes and other good people also live in spirit in heaven. Why is only Jesus living in his body in heaven?

Jesus prepares a place for us in heaven. In heaven we will live with our body too. It's said our body here is a body made of water and in heaven we will live in a body made of fire.

Jews do not believe in any heaven or hell or in a soul.

Everyone who buries his people believes in a transcendent reality.

They believe that only God lives in spirit. All humans die and then regain their body at the time of the coming of the Messiah. When the Messiah comes...all saints and good people resurrect...rise from their graves...regain their bodies and then live on forever in the kingdom of God on earth. This is their belief.

That's exactly what Christians believe too. We call this Earth "heaven" or sometimes only "kingdom of god". I prefer the german expressions "dieseits" = (this side here) for the world here and "jenseits" for the other world there. Between "here" and "there" is a kind of door. We are passing this door in our death.

Christians on the other hand believe that all humans have souls which leaves the body at the time of death. They believe that all good souls go to heaven and all bad souls go to hell....for all eternity.

To be seperated from god is to live in hell. Not everyone is good (indeed no one is good). So hell is existing. But the most Christians I know personally don't believe in an everlasting hell. Most believe in a kind of cleaning process called purgatory: a last chance even after death. Some Christians believe even in rebirth - as a kind of second chance here on Earth. Whatever will really happen after our death - I'm sure everyone will need the grace, the help, of god.

It is possible that in the case of Jesus....people took the idea of the Jewish resurrection and the Christian idea of heaven ...and combined them both such that Jesus is believed to live in heaven in his body!

What do you think?

anwin

He comes back. This is why he is in heaven: He prepares a home for you there.

 

[zaangalewa]

... I think that you have no idea what you are talking about. Superficial thinking gives erroneous results.

And I think you disqualified yourselve without any need to do so. Tell us your deep wisdom. An antistatement is normally worthless. If something is not an idea it can be for example a desk, or icecream or a supernova or ... or ... or ... or ... . An antistatement - like yours here - is in general much more superficial than any constructive question, thought or idea.

 

[defcon4]

And I think you disqualified yourselve without any need to do so. Tell us your deep wisdom.

Thank you so much for disqualifying me. Very superficial thinking again. My deep wisdom? Unfortunately, I am not wise by any standards. My wisdom extends only to that far that I do not meddle with things I do not have deep understanding about. I do not ridicule people for their belief and I let them be in peace as long as they do not encroach on my freedom to believe what I believe. That's my wisdom.

 

[zaangalewa]

And I think you disqualified yourselve without any need to do so. Tell us your deep wisdom.

Thank you so much for disqualifying me.

You disqualified yourselve.

Very superficial thinking again. My deep wisdom? Unfortunately, I am not wise by any standards.

So why do you speak nonsense?

My wisdom extends only to that far that I do not meddle with things I do not have deep understanding about. I do not ridicule people for their belief and I let them be in peace as long as they do not encroach on my freedom to believe what I believe. That's my wisdom.

You attacked the OP with the words "I think that you have no idea what you are talking about. Superficial thinking gives erroneous results." And now you try to tell me "I let them be in peace as long as they do not encroach on my freedom to believe what I believe". Do you like to win the nobel price for anticommunication?

 

[defcon4]

You attacked the OP

If you perceive it as an attack, be my guest. You bent out of shape for nothing.

 

[zaangalewa]

You attacked the OP

If you perceive it as an attack, be my guest. You bent out of shape for nothing.

You must unlearn what you have learned.
Yoda

It makes absolutelly no sense to call others "ignorant idiot" in polite words on no reason to do so.

 

[HaShev]

Defcon : You are finding out why I put him on iggy.
THANKS FOR YOUR 10:46 POST in this thread

 

[onefour1]

It is the purpose of God that all mankind resurrect both the just and the unjust.

John 5:28-29
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

Acts 24:15
15 And have hope toward God, which they themselves also allow, that there shall be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and unjust.

Christ was the first fruits of the resurrection. In other words, he is the first to resurrect, and through him all others who have received a body on this earth will resurrect. Although some have resurrected since Christ's resurrection, there are basically two Great Resurrections:

The first resurrection will occur at the time of Christ's second coming when he ushers in his millennial reign:

Revelation 20:4-6
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

The second resurrection or the resurrection of the unjust will occur after the thousand year millennial reign ends:

Doctrine and Covenants 76:17
17 And shall come forth; they who have done good, in the resurrection of the just; and they who have done evil, in the resurrection of the unjust.
John 5:29
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
Revelation 20:5
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. ...

Resurrection is a state of being that will last forever. Once we are resurrected we will never die again.

Luke 24:36
36 Neither can they die any more: for they are equal unto the angels; and are the children of God, being the children of the resurrection.

The truth is that God the Father, Jesus Christ, and all men who have received a mortal body will live eternally with a resurrected body.

Doctrine and Covenants 130:22-23
22 The Father has a body of flesh and bones as tangible as man’s; the Son also; but the Holy Ghost has not a body of flesh and bones, but is a personage of Spirit. Were it not so, the Holy Ghost could not dwell in us.
23 A man may receive the Holy Ghost, and it may descend upon him and not tarry with him.

 

[HaShev]

Well enjoy your planet casper takes you to. Don't know what we'll do with all those empty jails though. *shaking my head*