Russia Looking to Annex Ukraine. SO WHAT ?

[Delta4Embassy]

Some need to go look an old map of the USSR and quit acting like Ukraine is Spain or something. Who responded to the Chernobyl nuclear accident? Moscow. Where is Chernobyl? Ukraine - get over it.

The problem is that Ukrainians will become second rate citizens in Russia *if* Putin takes over Ukraine. The way he has been building up anti-Ukrainian propaganda within Russia is not a good contribution to Ukraine/Russia people relationship.

Same situation as "Mexico should just suck it up and become part of US already - they are kind of close to each other and their cultures mix *cough*Arizona*cough*" - except minus the murderous propaganda from ether side, annexed territories, shot down planes, run-away presidents, military forces on borders, and military agreements with China, etc...

Let the East have it's independence and be done with it.

Or, alternate idea, if they want independence so badly, let them do as everyone else in the world has done and fight for it. Britain didn't just let us have our's, but Russia didn't come over here and start trying to dictate to either of us. So let's show the same respect and humility and butt out of other people's business.

 

[Vorskla]

Some need to go look an old map of the USSR and quit acting like Ukraine is Spain or something. Who responded to the Chernobyl nuclear accident? Moscow. Where is Chernobyl? Ukraine - get over it.

The problem is that Ukrainians will become second rate citizens in Russia *if* Putin takes over Ukraine. The way he has been building up anti-Ukrainian propaganda within Russia is not a good contribution to Ukraine/Russia people relationship.

Same situation as "Mexico should just suck it up and become part of US already - they are kind of close to each other and their cultures mix *cough*Arizona*cough*" - except minus the murderous propaganda from ether side, annexed territories, shot down planes, run-away presidents, military forces on borders, and military agreements with China, etc...

Minor difference being Mexico didn't become Mexico by being part of the US (reverse is true actually.) But Ukraine did become Ukraine by being part of Russia.

Not true. Ukraine was never part of Russia (two different, but culturally similar, countries). Russia was part of USSR and then Ukraine was part of USSR. So, in summary, there used to be a bunch of countries - then they united into USSR. Then, USSR fell apart and now Putin is trying to bring it back(???).

 

[dilloduck]

The problem is that Ukrainians will become second rate citizens in Russia *if* Putin takes over Ukraine. The way he has been building up anti-Ukrainian propaganda within Russia is not a good contribution to Ukraine/Russia people relationship.

Same situation as "Mexico should just suck it up and become part of US already - they are kind of close to each other and their cultures mix *cough*Arizona*cough*" - except minus the murderous propaganda from ether side, annexed territories, shot down planes, run-away presidents, military forces on borders, and military agreements with China, etc...

Let the East have it's independence and be done with it.

Or, alternate idea, if they want independence so badly, let them do as everyone else in the world has done and fight for it. Britain didn't just let us have our's, but Russia didn't come over here and start trying to dictate to either of us. So let's show the same respect and humility and butt out of other people's business.

They are fighting for it and France helped the US get our independence.

 

[Delta4Embassy]

The problem is that Ukrainians will become second rate citizens in Russia *if* Putin takes over Ukraine. The way he has been building up anti-Ukrainian propaganda within Russia is not a good contribution to Ukraine/Russia people relationship.

Same situation as "Mexico should just suck it up and become part of US already - they are kind of close to each other and their cultures mix *cough*Arizona*cough*" - except minus the murderous propaganda from ether side, annexed territories, shot down planes, run-away presidents, military forces on borders, and military agreements with China, etc...

Minor difference being Mexico didn't become Mexico by being part of the US (reverse is true actually.) But Ukraine did become Ukraine by being part of Russia.

Not true. Ukraine was never part of Russia (two different, but culturally similar, countries). Russia was part of USSR and then Ukraine was part of USSR. So, in summary, there used to be a bunch of countries - then they united into USSR. Then, USSR fell apart and now Putin is trying to bring it back(???).

Thanks. Isn't often people fall for obvious traps like that and clear up a semantic distinction, while proving their opposition's point and shooting themselves in the foot.

Ukraine was part of the USSR.

A relationship which is analogous to Puerto Rico being under US jurisdiction but not actually being a US state.

 

[Delta4Embassy]

Let the East have it's independence and be done with it.

Or, alternate idea, if they want independence so badly, let them do as everyone else in the world has done and fight for it. Britain didn't just let us have our's, but Russia didn't come over here and start trying to dictate to either of us. So let's show the same respect and humility and butt out of other people's business.

They are fighting for it and France helped the US get our independence.

Ya, France...Russia...Basicly the same thing.

 

[Delta4Embassy]

Using Puerto Rico again, Ukraine and Russia are exactly like the US and Puerto Rico if PR tried going over to Spain and becomming part of the EU. US isn't going to say "ok, best of luck! bon voyage!" any more than Russia is going to let Ukraine go over to the EU. So the question people need to ask is this: Are you willing to fight for Ukraine, or conceed you don't really give a...mmm CDZ ok let's see...poop enough about it to go to war with Russia for it?

 

[Vorskla]

Minor difference being Mexico didn't become Mexico by being part of the US (reverse is true actually.) But Ukraine did become Ukraine by being part of Russia.

Not true. Ukraine was never part of Russia (two different, but culturally similar, countries). Russia was part of USSR and then Ukraine was part of USSR. So, in summary, there used to be a bunch of countries - then they united into USSR. Then, USSR fell apart and now Putin is trying to bring it back(???).

Thanks. Isn't often people fall for obvious traps like that and clear up a semantic distinction, while proving their opposition's point and shooting themselves in the foot.

Ukraine was part of the USSR.

A relationship which is analogous to Puerto Rico being under US jurisdiction but not actually being a US state.

What exactly are you trying to argue again? "Ukraine should just give up and become part of Russia" (and you are trying to add "again" to the end of that and I am trying to point out that it wasn't JUST Russia running the USSR. USSR was a UNION of countries. Stalin was from Georgia, other politicians running USSR were also from a number of different countries).
Russia is NOT Ukraine friendly at this point in the game, is what my point is. So, even when in the past there was a friendly union of countries - that is the story of the past. Anything else you would like to add? Oh, and my foot is fine - thank you for asking

 

[Vorskla]

Using Puerto Rico again, Ukraine and Russia are exactly like the US and Puerto Rico if PR tried going over to Spain and becomming part of the EU. US isn't going to say "ok, best of luck! bon voyage!" any more than Russia is going to let Ukraine go over to the EU. So the question people need to ask is this: Are you willing to fight for Ukraine, or conceed you don't really give a...mmm CDZ ok let's see...poop enough about it to go to war with Russia for it?

You are absolutely right, with a few minor (from the "big picture" point of view, minor) details.
Add US building up hatred against Puerto Rico, while they were going to prevent them from joining Spain, to the point where most of the citizens of the US considered Puerto Ricans to be Nazi terrorists(!).

And this would mirror Russia/Ukraine situation if Puerto Rico was it's own independent country with access to a big chunk of US border and a strategically placed port, etc...

There is nothing anyone can do. The situation is not looking good in this for anyone (well, maybe for Putin).

 

[dilloduck]

Not true. Ukraine was never part of Russia (two different, but culturally similar, countries). Russia was part of USSR and then Ukraine was part of USSR. So, in summary, there used to be a bunch of countries - then they united into USSR. Then, USSR fell apart and now Putin is trying to bring it back(???).

Thanks. Isn't often people fall for obvious traps like that and clear up a semantic distinction, while proving their opposition's point and shooting themselves in the foot.

Ukraine was part of the USSR.

A relationship which is analogous to Puerto Rico being under US jurisdiction but not actually being a US state.

What exactly are you trying to argue again? "Ukraine should just give up and become part of Russia" (and you are trying to add "again" to the end of that and I am trying to point out that it wasn't JUST Russia running the USSR. USSR was a UNION of countries. Stalin was from Georgia, other politicians running USSR were also from a number of different countries).
Russia is NOT Ukraine friendly at this point in the game, is what my point is. So, even when in the past there was a friendly union of countries - that is the story of the past. Anything else you would like to add? Oh, and my foot is fine - thank you for asking

But there ARE Russians in the Ukraine that would very much like to independent of Ukrainian rule. The government installed by the coup that the west helped orchestrate wasn't exactly friendly to the Russian speakers.

 

[Vorskla]

Thanks. Isn't often people fall for obvious traps like that and clear up a semantic distinction, while proving their opposition's point and shooting themselves in the foot.

Ukraine was part of the USSR.

A relationship which is analogous to Puerto Rico being under US jurisdiction but not actually being a US state.

What exactly are you trying to argue again? "Ukraine should just give up and become part of Russia" (and you are trying to add "again" to the end of that and I am trying to point out that it wasn't JUST Russia running the USSR. USSR was a UNION of countries. Stalin was from Georgia, other politicians running USSR were also from a number of different countries).
Russia is NOT Ukraine friendly at this point in the game, is what my point is. So, even when in the past there was a friendly union of countries - that is the story of the past. Anything else you would like to add? Oh, and my foot is fine - thank you for asking

But there ARE Russians in the Ukraine that would very much like to independent of Ukrainian rule. The government installed by the coup that the west helped orchestrate wasn't exactly friendly to the Russian speakers.

That's where the "freedom" part is supposed to come in. Majority wants Ukraine to be Ukraine and Russia to be Russia. Individuals can do and want to their hearts content and then bring up their opinions through voting process. There is also the possibility of immigration from Ukraine to Russia and vice verse, if so desired - that has always been a valid option.

 

[Peach]

The problem is that Ukrainians will become second rate citizens in Russia *if* Putin takes over Ukraine. The way he has been building up anti-Ukrainian propaganda within Russia is not a good contribution to Ukraine/Russia people relationship.

Same situation as "Mexico should just suck it up and become part of US already - they are kind of close to each other and their cultures mix *cough*Arizona*cough*" - except minus the murderous propaganda from ether side, annexed territories, shot down planes, run-away presidents, military forces on borders, and military agreements with China, etc...

Minor difference being Mexico didn't become Mexico by being part of the US (reverse is true actually.) But Ukraine did become Ukraine by being part of Russia.

Not true. Ukraine was never part of Russia (two different, but culturally similar, countries). Russia was part of USSR and then Ukraine was part of USSR. So, in summary, there used to be a bunch of countries - then they united into USSR. Then, USSR fell apart and now Putin is trying to bring it back(???).

Yes, that is why the Russian sympathizers are REBELS.

 

[dilloduck]

What exactly are you trying to argue again? "Ukraine should just give up and become part of Russia" (and you are trying to add "again" to the end of that and I am trying to point out that it wasn't JUST Russia running the USSR. USSR was a UNION of countries. Stalin was from Georgia, other politicians running USSR were also from a number of different countries).
Russia is NOT Ukraine friendly at this point in the game, is what my point is. So, even when in the past there was a friendly union of countries - that is the story of the past. Anything else you would like to add? Oh, and my foot is fine - thank you for asking

But there ARE Russians in the Ukraine that would very much like to independent of Ukrainian rule. The government installed by the coup that the west helped orchestrate wasn't exactly friendly to the Russian speakers.

That's where the "freedom" part is supposed to come in. Majority wants Ukraine to be Ukraine and Russia to be Russia. Individuals can do and want to their hearts content and then bring up their opinions through voting process. There is also the possibility of immigration from Ukraine to Russia and vice verse, if so desired - that has always been a valid option.

The United States had a civil war to settle that issue. Looks like you're having one too.

 

[Vorskla]

But there ARE Russians in the Ukraine that would very much like to independent of Ukrainian rule. The government installed by the coup that the west helped orchestrate wasn't exactly friendly to the Russian speakers.

That's where the "freedom" part is supposed to come in. Majority wants Ukraine to be Ukraine and Russia to be Russia. Individuals can do and want to their hearts content and then bring up their opinions through voting process. There is also the possibility of immigration from Ukraine to Russia and vice verse, if so desired - that has always been a valid option.

The United States had a civil war to settle that issue. Looks like you're having one too.

There were issues in Ukraine to begin with. The lying, thieving, corrupt piece of crap president ran away when people were getting fed up with the situation. I'm sure there was outside involvement from all sides, in the original situation, but the fundamental problems already existed. Things had to change. But then everyone got involved even more (mostly Russia and especially Russia) and things morphed, escalated and morphed some more and now here were are...

This is not about Ukraine anymore...

 

[dilloduck]

That's where the "freedom" part is supposed to come in. Majority wants Ukraine to be Ukraine and Russia to be Russia. Individuals can do and want to their hearts content and then bring up their opinions through voting process. There is also the possibility of immigration from Ukraine to Russia and vice verse, if so desired - that has always been a valid option.

The United States had a civil war to settle that issue. Looks like you're having one too.

There were issues in Ukraine to begin with. The lying, thieving, corrupt piece of crap president ran away when people were getting fed up with the situation. I'm sure there was outside involvement from all sides, in the original situation, but the fundamental problems already existed. Things had to change. But then everyone got involved even more (mostly Russia and especially Russia) and things morphed, escalated and morphed some more and now here were are...

This is not about Ukraine anymore...

It was always about the money.

 

[Camp]

That's where the "freedom" part is supposed to come in. Majority wants Ukraine to be Ukraine and Russia to be Russia. Individuals can do and want to their hearts content and then bring up their opinions through voting process. There is also the possibility of immigration from Ukraine to Russia and vice verse, if so desired - that has always been a valid option.

The United States had a civil war to settle that issue. Looks like you're having one too.

There were issues in Ukraine to begin with. The lying, thieving, corrupt piece of crap president ran away when people were getting fed up with the situation. I'm sure there was outside involvement from all sides, in the original situation, but the fundamental problems already existed. Things had to change. But then everyone got involved even more (mostly Russia and especially Russia) and things morphed, escalated and morphed some more and now here were are...

This is not about Ukraine anymore...

Russian people feel threatened. Even those who have not liked Putin or supported him are supporting him now. They are thankful he is there to stand up for them. They believe if Putin were not in power the west would harm Russia in whatever ways they could. Only Putin stands between them and war, poverty and doom.

 

[dilloduck]

Minor difference being Mexico didn't become Mexico by being part of the US (reverse is true actually.) But Ukraine did become Ukraine by being part of Russia.

Not true. Ukraine was never part of Russia (two different, but culturally similar, countries). Russia was part of USSR and then Ukraine was part of USSR. So, in summary, there used to be a bunch of countries - then they united into USSR. Then, USSR fell apart and now Putin is trying to bring it back(???).

Yes, that is why the Russian sympathizers are REBELS.

Of course and so were those who fought against the British.

 

[Vorskla]

The United States had a civil war to settle that issue. Looks like you're having one too.

There were issues in Ukraine to begin with. The lying, thieving, corrupt piece of crap president ran away when people were getting fed up with the situation. I'm sure there was outside involvement from all sides, in the original situation, but the fundamental problems already existed. Things had to change. But then everyone got involved even more (mostly Russia and especially Russia) and things morphed, escalated and morphed some more and now here were are...

This is not about Ukraine anymore...

Russian people feel threatened. Even those who have not liked Putin or supported him are supporting him now. They are thankful he is there to stand up for them. They believe if Putin were not in power the west would harm Russia in whatever ways they could. Only Putin stands between them and war, poverty and doom.

That is the OTHER side of the story and it is also understandable and to be expected.

And Putin cultivates the support through artfully wielded combinations of propaganda, laws and elimination of opposition (political or otherwise). Media channels that were not showing what Putin wanted are closed, ISP providers filtered and strictly controlled while people who did not conform were fired or imprisoned.

But Russia is 100% behind Putin at this point, regardless of the causes and there is no other choice here for Russian people as well.

 

[Vorskla]

Not true. Ukraine was never part of Russia (two different, but culturally similar, countries). Russia was part of USSR and then Ukraine was part of USSR. So, in summary, there used to be a bunch of countries - then they united into USSR. Then, USSR fell apart and now Putin is trying to bring it back(???).

Yes, that is why the Russian sympathizers are REBELS.

Of course and so were those who fought against the British.

Difference is in the majority. Majority of population was against Britain and majority of population is against Russia.

 

[Delta4Embassy]

Bottom line is are you willing to kill and possibly be killed for Ukraine? If not, siddown.

 

[Vorskla]

Bottom line is are you willing to kill and possibly be killed for Ukraine? If not, siddown.

My answer is - I AM - But that's because I'm from there.

Everyone else should have a very different answer from mine (unless they are similarly affiliated or have a very unique world view).

Good times