See we told you.. Mcdonalds is ordering 7K touch screen to replace cashiers

[beagle9]

So.....the starting salary is roughly $15/hour on a 40-hour week for a job that includes a tremendous amount of know how, discipline, and personal risk. So to compare that to what a kid has to know to flip that burger at McDonalds......and assume that kid needs $15/hour? Pretty hard to rationalize that.

In 5 years the cop will be making 53k..where the McDonald's will still be at 15.

Cops are always underpaid, but when push comes to shove its typically both parties that screw them..

Look at How the 911 responders were handled.

Well, if after 5 years you're still working in McD, something is definitely wrong with you. But at least, you're alive... Maybe a time to apply for cop position.

After 5 years in McD, you can't be much more valuable to the company then when you started. Unless you got promoted to shift or store manager, but then you're not on $15K anymore.

Now see, this is the kind of ignorance that kills me, because if a person is still in a position after 5 years so what, because it may be that the person is the best at what he does in that position after 5 years, and he or she has found a position that they love to work in.

So he or she is happy, and the company is also happy to have the position covered by a great employee, so what's wrong with having raises in that position if a person wants to stay in that position in life for a while ?

The position may come with less stress and less headache, so it could be that it is more of a desired position as based on some of that alone. Now it's tough to fill a position with someone that has a mindset to stay in a position or job doing the same thing for a long time, but it is a plus for the company not to have a high turnover in these job positions in which I and many have seen in times past. It also is a huge plus for the company, because it keeps them from having to go through the retraining process every time they turn around, and worse having to deal with the unknowns that comes along with trying to replace a superior worker in a position that the person would have strengthened the company up in that position. This situation allows the company to concentrate on other areas of need, as that hole in the dam has been plugged for a while.

If the US Military were to operate as McD's does in this respect, then unit cohesiveness would never exist in the military. How they've won the burger war up to this point amazes me, so it could be that there is a form of intimidation that possibly could be used by them when working people. That would be interesting to know, I mean if they prey upon the youthfulness of their employee's, and taking advantage of their ignorance at such a young age, then that should be known also in the debate. Nothing wrong with having a structured pay scale systems for any job title and company that exist out there, and usually where you won't find this to be the case, is where you most likely will find abusive situations that exist in one form or another. I guess the employee's who hope this strike or uprising works, have been experiencing these problems or there would be no problem.

McD's is actually to stupid to realize that if they are still not required to have a structuralized pay scale system for each position in the company, then they will still come out ahead by paying the flat rate of 15.00 dollars an hour for each labor position no matter how long the employee stays there in that position, so I ask is their greed blinding them to that little fact that would still benefit them in the matter ? Sheesh!

 

[Ame®icano]

If they raise the price too high, people won't buy it.

The American people are sick of being blackmailed by corporations.

An economics 101 course would change your life. You would learn about supply and demand curves. Companies won't produce a product with a negative NPV. Which is why higher taxes harm the economy, they have to pass along the cost. No one invests for pre-tax return, it's net return. Then demand drops and sales fall, it's government caused economic destruction.

Taxes are just a cost to businesses. Even liberals grasp that when the price of steel goes up, the price of refrigerators go up. But then taxes go up and you are like what do you mean? Why would prices go up?

Then another company will.

They don't have to pass along the cost. They could make cuts internally, within the company. They could pay their executives less. They could improve distribution. There are plenty of ways a company can absorb rather than pass on to consumers.

What if execs are already paid less and distribution improved and internal cuts made and no room to bread? Left would still call them evil fat cats and tax them more, with the same rhetoric as before. The problem with left is that they're not satisfied unless they have full control.

 

[Impenitent]

Well ...

If Blackstone's formula had been ... "It is better that 100 women be raped than 1 whore house prosper" ... Then your analogy might have been closer.

.

It is not a dicotomy at all. Blackstone's formula plays no part in my argument.

Hey ... You are the one that brought up Blackstone's Formula ... Not me.
You are the one the suggested a division between Blackstone's Formula and what you wanted to express in your analogy.
All I said is that your division was not valid in reference to Blackstone's Formula ... And it wasn't.

.

My points will not always be clear, but I'm always willing to clarify the foggy ones.

 

[SAYIT]

Typical lame argument cherry-pickin'. Two can play that game:
"The United States has the highest corporate tax rate in the world, at 35%. Add in state and local taxes and it averages 40%. No wonder America's most profitable, highest taxed companies will stop at nothing to keep their earnings overseas and out of the grasp of Uncle Sam. Here's a list of the 25 megacorps that pay megataxes..."

Which Corporate Giants Pay The Most In Taxes? - Forbes

Apple had to sell 10 million I Phones just to pay their tax bill to the US Treasury.
It is a sign of how government creates jobs when you have to manufacture, ship and sell 10 million phones just to pay your tax bill in the US alone.

That's quit a stretch. Gov't created nothing and Apple did not develop and market the IPhone just to pay their tax bill.

 

[SAYIT]

If they raise the price too high, people won't buy it.

The American people are sick of being blackmailed by corporations.

An economics 101 course would change your life. You would learn about supply and demand curves. Companies won't produce a product with a negative NPV. Which is why higher taxes harm the economy, they have to pass along the cost. No one invests for pre-tax return, it's net return. Then demand drops and sales fall, it's government caused economic destruction.

Taxes are just a cost to businesses. Even liberals grasp that when the price of steel goes up, the price of refrigerators go up. But then taxes go up and you are like what do you mean? Why would prices go up?

Fine. Yet I see no cost benefit analysis on this man vs machine question.

When monopoly becomes the norm, the greater good hinges on corporate decision.

I can see how it might benefit McDonalds, but show me how it is better for society that these jobs disappear.

McD has a price ceiling ... the price at which sales and profits suffer. Therefore they must operate efficiently which means constantly adapting. Sometimes jobs are lost. McD's mission is not to provide jobs for society but rather profits for it's shareholders or in the case of franchises, the owners.

 

[Ame®icano]

Now see, this is the kind of ignorance that kills me, because if a person is still in a position after 5 years so what, because it may be that the person is the best at what he does in that position after 5 years, and he or she has found a position that they love to work in.

In human nature is to improve, to be creative, to find better and easier ways, to save and conserve... Now, if you lets say flip burgers for 5 years because you love doing that, or maybe because you can't do anything else, and then demand that you get paid double for something that you didn't improve, you're probably nuts. If you love what you're doing, so what if you don't get paid what you want, but you get paid what you're worth.

So he or she is happy, and the company is also happy to have the position covered by a great employee, so what's wrong with having raises in that position if a person wants to stay in that position in life for a while ?

If you flip burgers for 5 years you may become very good at it. You may deserve raise and you might get it, but bottom line is, you're still flipping burgers. Regardless how happy you are, your work after five years is not worth much more then when you started and if you don't get that part, then who is ignorant here?

The position may come with less stress and less headache, so it could be that it is more of a desired position as based on some of that alone. Now it's tough to fill a position with someone that has a mindset to stay in a position or job doing the same thing for a long time, but it is a plus for the company not to have a high turnover in these job positions in which I and many have seen in times past. It also is a huge plus for the company, because it keeps them from having to go through the retraining process every time they turn around, and worse having to deal with the unknowns that comes along with trying to replace a superior worker in a position that the person would have strengthened the company up in that position. This situation allows the company to concentrate on other areas of need, as that hole in the dam has been plugged for a while.

Really? Fast food chains are counting on high turnaround for these jobs. They hire kids who need job experience and some pocket money. Soon enough, those kids who realize that's not what they wanna do in life and move on to better job. Those who don't, well, they got paid what they're worth. Tell me, in today's world of quotas, how much one burger flipper can be superior to the other? 10, 20, 50, 100%?

If the US Military were to operate as McD's does in this respect, then unit cohesiveness would never exist in the military. How they've won the burger war up to this point amazes me, so it could be that there is a form of intimidation that possibly could be used by them when working people. That would be interesting to know, I mean if they prey upon the youthfulness of their employee's, and taking advantage of their ignorance at such a young age, then that should be known also in the debate. Nothing wrong with having a structured pay scale systems for any job title and company that exist out there, and usually where you won't find this to be the case, is where you most likely will find abusive situations that exist in one form or another. I guess the employee's who hope this strike or uprising works, have been experiencing these problems or there would be no problem.

You're saying there is nothing wrong with structured pay scale. So lets take military pay grades. If you're private, this is what you get. You wanna stay private for 10 years, fine... this is what you gonna get. If you don't like your pay, get promoted to private 2, or first class or higher and this is what you gonna get. If you like what you're doing as private, this is what you gonna get.

McD's is actually to stupid to realize that if they are still not required to have a structuralized pay scale system for each position in the company, then they will still come out ahead by paying the flat rate of 15.00 dollars an hour for each labor position no matter how long the employee stays there in that position, so I ask is their greed blinding them to that little fact that would still benefit them in the matter ? Sheesh!

Now back to private sector, if you like flipping burgers... this is what you gonna get paid for it. If you don't like it, try doing something else, cashier, shift manager, whatever or go elsewhere. Every position got its pay grade. If you wanna make $15 or $50 an hour, you gotta be worth as much. Bitching may actually get you a raise although it doesn't necessary qualify you for one.

 

[RKMBrown]

Typical lame argument cherry-pickin'. Two can play that game:
"The United States has the highest corporate tax rate in the world, at 35%. Add in state and local taxes and it averages 40%. No wonder America's most profitable, highest taxed companies will stop at nothing to keep their earnings overseas and out of the grasp of Uncle Sam. Here's a list of the 25 megacorps that pay megataxes..."

Which Corporate Giants Pay The Most In Taxes? - Forbes

Apple had to sell 10 million I Phones just to pay their tax bill to the US Treasury.
It is a sign of how government creates jobs when you have to manufacture, ship and sell 10 million phones just to pay your tax bill in the US alone.

That's quit a stretch. Gov't created nothing and Apple did not develop and market the IPhone just to pay their tax bill.

Looks like you were out sick the day they taught how to use irony in high school.

 

[kaz]

Apple had to sell 10 million I Phones just to pay their tax bill to the US Treasury.
It is a sign of how government creates jobs when you have to manufacture, ship and sell 10 million phones just to pay your tax bill in the US alone.

That's quit a stretch. Gov't created nothing and Apple did not develop and market the IPhone just to pay their tax bill.

Looks like you were out sick the day they taught how to use irony in high school.

That's an ugly, a gun fight between people agreeing with each other. There be varmint liberals in them hills...

 

[RKMBrown]

Now see, this is the kind of ignorance that kills me, because if a person is still in a position after 5 years so what, because it may be that the person is the best at what he does in that position after 5 years, and he or she has found a position that they love to work in.

In human nature is to improve, to be creative, to find better and easier ways, to save and conserve... Now, if you lets say flip burgers for 5 years because you love doing that, or maybe because you can't do anything else, and then demand that you get paid double for something that you didn't improve, you're probably nuts. If you love what you're doing, so what if you don't get paid what you want, but you get paid what you're worth.

So he or she is happy, and the company is also happy to have the position covered by a great employee, so what's wrong with having raises in that position if a person wants to stay in that position in life for a while ?

If you flip burgers for 5 years you may become very good at it. You may deserve raise and you might get it, but bottom line is, you're still flipping burgers. Regardless how happy you are, your work after five years is not worth much more then when you started and if you don't get that part, then who is ignorant here?


Really? Fast food chains are counting on high turnaround for these jobs. They hire kids who need job experience and some pocket money. Soon enough, those kids who realize that's not what they wanna do in life and move on to better job. Those who don't, well, they got paid what they're worth. Tell me, in today's world of quotas, how much one burger flipper can be superior to the other? 10, 20, 50, 100%?

If the US Military were to operate as McD's does in this respect, then unit cohesiveness would never exist in the military. How they've won the burger war up to this point amazes me, so it could be that there is a form of intimidation that possibly could be used by them when working people. That would be interesting to know, I mean if they prey upon the youthfulness of their employee's, and taking advantage of their ignorance at such a young age, then that should be known also in the debate. Nothing wrong with having a structured pay scale systems for any job title and company that exist out there, and usually where you won't find this to be the case, is where you most likely will find abusive situations that exist in one form or another. I guess the employee's who hope this strike or uprising works, have been experiencing these problems or there would be no problem.

You're saying there is nothing wrong with structured pay scale. So lets take military pay grades. If you're private, this is what you get. You wanna stay private for 10 years, fine... this is what you gonna get. If you don't like your pay, get promoted to private 2, or first class or higher and this is what you gonna get. If you like what you're doing as private, this is what you gonna get.

McD's is actually to stupid to realize that if they are still not required to have a structuralized pay scale system for each position in the company, then they will still come out ahead by paying the flat rate of 15.00 dollars an hour for each labor position no matter how long the employee stays there in that position, so I ask is their greed blinding them to that little fact that would still benefit them in the matter ? Sheesh!

Now back to private sector, if you like flipping burgers... this is what you gonna get paid for it. If you don't like it, try doing something else, cashier, shift manager, whatever or go elsewhere. Every position got its pay grade. If you wanna make $15 or $50 an hour, you gotta be worth as much. Bitching may actually get you a raise although it doesn't necessary qualify you for one.

I won't buy a piece of frozen meat stuff burned to hell by a bad burger flipper, but I would pay good money for great burger cooked medium rare with fresh ground sirloin and seasoned just right...

So to the question "how much one burger flipper can be superior to the other? 10, 20, 50, 100%?" I would say no two burger flippers are alike, and one can be far superior than the other. It takes about 2$ of good meat and about 5min to prep and cook a great burger, for which I would gladly pay 10bucks. Do the math.

 

[Ame®icano]

I won't buy a piece of frozen meat stuff burned to hell by a bad burger flipper, but I would pay good money for great burger cooked medium rare with fresh ground sirloin and seasoned just right...

So to the question "how much one burger flipper can be superior to the other? 10, 20, 50, 100%?" I would say no two burger flippers are alike, and one can be far superior than the other. It takes about 2$ of good meat and about 5min to prep and cook a great burger, for which I would gladly pay 10bucks. Do the math.

I would too. But neither one of us will find it in McDonalds.

 

[RKMBrown]

I won't buy a piece of frozen meat stuff burned to hell by a bad burger flipper, but I would pay good money for great burger cooked medium rare with fresh ground sirloin and seasoned just right...

So to the question "how much one burger flipper can be superior to the other? 10, 20, 50, 100%?" I would say no two burger flippers are alike, and one can be far superior than the other. It takes about 2$ of good meat and about 5min to prep and cook a great burger, for which I would gladly pay 10bucks. Do the math.

I would too. But neither one of us will find it in McDonalds.

Thus the reason they have to employ minimum wage folk for the burger flipping. Price and convenience is the only chance they have of selling that crap.

I do like their fries though, the spicy chicken sandwich for a buck does go down easy, and depending on you location some of them know how to make tea ok... so it's not a total loss if it's your only chance for hot food on the highway.

 

[Impenitent]

An economics 101 course would change your life. You would learn about supply and demand curves. Companies won't produce a product with a negative NPV. Which is why higher taxes harm the economy, they have to pass along the cost. No one invests for pre-tax return, it's net return. Then demand drops and sales fall, it's government caused economic destruction.

Taxes are just a cost to businesses. Even liberals grasp that when the price of steel goes up, the price of refrigerators go up. But then taxes go up and you are like what do you mean? Why would prices go up?

Fine. Yet I see no cost benefit analysis on this man vs machine question.

When monopoly becomes the norm, the greater good hinges on corporate decision.

I can see how it might benefit McDonalds, but show me how it is better for society that these jobs disappear.

McD has a price ceiling ... the price at which sales and profits suffer. Therefore they must operate efficiently which means constantly adapting. Sometimes jobs are lost. McD's mission is not to provide jobs for society but rather profits for it's shareholders or in the case of franchises, the owners.

Then "job-creators" is quite a misnomer.

 

[kaz]

Fine. Yet I see no cost benefit analysis on this man vs machine question.

When monopoly becomes the norm, the greater good hinges on corporate decision.

I can see how it might benefit McDonalds, but show me how it is better for society that these jobs disappear.

McD has a price ceiling ... the price at which sales and profits suffer. Therefore they must operate efficiently which means constantly adapting. Sometimes jobs are lost. McD's mission is not to provide jobs for society but rather profits for it's shareholders or in the case of franchises, the owners.

Then "job-creators" is quite a misnomer.

No, it's not. They create jobs by doing what SAYIT said, pursuing profit.

Government creates no jobs ever because it creates no value. The people government hires are paid through money taken out of the economy and for every government job created, more than one private sector job is destroyed.

 

[Ame®icano]

I won't buy a piece of frozen meat stuff burned to hell by a bad burger flipper, but I would pay good money for great burger cooked medium rare with fresh ground sirloin and seasoned just right...

So to the question "how much one burger flipper can be superior to the other? 10, 20, 50, 100%?" I would say no two burger flippers are alike, and one can be far superior than the other. It takes about 2$ of good meat and about 5min to prep and cook a great burger, for which I would gladly pay 10bucks. Do the math.

I would too. But neither one of us will find it in McDonalds.

Thus the reason they have to employ minimum wage folk for the burger flipping. Price and convenience is the only chance they have of selling that crap.

I do like their fries though, the spicy chicken sandwich for a buck does go down easy, and depending on you location some of them know how to make tea ok... so it's not a total loss if it's your only chance for hot food on the highway.

There is reason why it's called "junk food". If you want some quality, you end up in place that has chef who prepare it way you want it and he's probably paid as good as his burger is.

 

[thereisnospoon]

Our corporations pay less in taxes than ever before in history. Many of them pay no taxes at all.

Silliness.
Our corporations include millions of small companies whose owners scraped together their life's savings, borrowed from friends and family and the bank and bought a piece of the rock hoping to turn it into better living than their parents could provide. The gov't dramatically changes the rules in midstream to satisfy those who neither bought nor risked ANYTHING. Peeps just like ... you.

What a load of bull.....

29 Companies That Paid Millions For Lobbying (And Didn't Pay Taxes) - Forbes

Largest US companies paying no taxes? « Hot Air

Large companies find ways to a zero tax rate

Corporate giants such as telecom firm Verizon, drugmaker Bristol-Myers Squibb and power management firm Eaton, all reported effective tax rates of 0% during the past 12 months. The findings underscore that while many companies bellyache about the top federal income tax rate of 35%, in reality, many pay much less than that, says Nick Yee of Gradient Analytics. "Investors hope company management is doing everything they can to generate profit, legally," he says. "But the tax code is gray, and there's often no set guidance."

You're not getting the whole story.
I don't have the time nor the inclination to explain it to you. You would not heed the information anyway.

 

[thereisnospoon]

Fine. Yet I see no cost benefit analysis on this man vs machine question.

When monopoly becomes the norm, the greater good hinges on corporate decision.

I can see how it might benefit McDonalds, but show me how it is better for society that these jobs disappear.

McD has a price ceiling ... the price at which sales and profits suffer. Therefore they must operate efficiently which means constantly adapting. Sometimes jobs are lost. McD's mission is not to provide jobs for society but rather profits for it's shareholders or in the case of franchises, the owners.

Then "job-creators" is quite a misnomer.

Employment is not an entitlement.

 

[Impenitent]

McD has a price ceiling ... the price at which sales and profits suffer. Therefore they must operate efficiently which means constantly adapting. Sometimes jobs are lost. McD's mission is not to provide jobs for society but rather profits for it's shareholders or in the case of franchises, the owners.

Then "job-creators" is quite a misnomer.

No, it's not. They create jobs by doing what SAYIT said, pursuing profit.

Government creates no jobs ever because it creates no value. The people government hires are paid through money taken out of the economy and for every government job created, more than one private sector job is destroyed.

Wasn't the British East India Company merely perusing profit at the time
Time of the Boston TeaParty?

There comes a time of recognition that the goals of a corporation, and the goals of the society it lives in, are not one and the same.

 

[kaz]

Then "job-creators" is quite a misnomer.

No, it's not. They create jobs by doing what SAYIT said, pursuing profit.

Government creates no jobs ever because it creates no value. The people government hires are paid through money taken out of the economy and for every government job created, more than one private sector job is destroyed.

Wasn't the British East India Company merely perusing profit at the time
Time of the Boston TeaParty?

There comes a time of recognition that the goals of a corporation, and the goals of the society it lives in, are not one and the same.

I am not getting your point on the east india company.

The goals of businesses and government are not the same, but you are equating government and society and I disagree totally with that. In fact the interests of the people are far more aligned with the interests of businesses than with politicians and bureaucrats.

In the end though, there is no conflict when it works well. Free markets drive profit which funds both companies and the government. In fact the conflict, that government wants power, not just money, is what is harming our economy and the interests of the people.

 

[BlackSand]

Wasn't the British East India Company merely perusing profit at the time
Time of the Boston TeaParty?

There comes a time of recognition that the goals of a corporation, and the goals of the society it lives in, are not one and the same.

Perhaps society should raid the Apple warehouse and start throwing I Phones in the harbor to protest taxes ... I am sure that would put a dent in the $6 billion in Federal Revenues Apple pays the US Treasury.

.

 

[thereisnospoon]

Businesses don't pay taxes regardless of rates or shelters. They pass the taxes on to their consumers in the guise of higher costs. Right there in Microeconomics 101.

So go ahead and demand high taxes for businesses. It'll feel good, but don't bitch about how much stuff costs when you do.

If they raise the price too high, people won't buy it.

The American people are sick of being blackmailed by corporations.

Right. And when the taxes vs price vs the ability of the marketplace to absorb the higher prices reaches a tipping point, business have a decision to make. Most likely, small business will close. Larger businesses will downsize and the result of that is less employment. The bigger picture would be the reduction of available products and services. The laws of supply and demand take care of the rest. The consumer ends up buying at the increased prices anyway.
So your anti corporate high tax agenda ends up limiting the marketplace which drives up prices.
This is what you get for misconceptualizing taxation. You people believe taxation is for punishment. WRONG.
The stumbling block for socialism and central planning is eventually government runs out of other people's money.
The frustrating aspect of this is you people run around pointing your finger saying "those people don't pay enough"...Ya know what? Neither do you.