See we told you.. Mcdonalds is ordering 7K touch screen to replace cashiers

[RKMBrown]

Businesses don't pay taxes regardless of rates or shelters. They pass the taxes on to their consumers in the guise of higher costs. Right there in Microeconomics 101.

So go ahead and demand high taxes for businesses. It'll feel good, but don't bitch about how much stuff costs when you do.

Tax breaks, no taxes and the CEOs making 500 times what their workers make. Yeah, things are doing great here in the good ole USA where the minimum wage has the lowest spending power history and the top 1% has increased their earnings by more than 200% while the middle class and poor has stagnated. Yep, lower taxes are going to help that because, well, we've lowered them so much already and look how much it's helped!

<ever feel like you're talking to morons?>

Three different issues. 1) executive pay against the will of the owners of a publicly traded company 2) Spending power of the US $. 3) Minimum wage salary and the people that think a job for kids should be a living wage for adults.

1) Neither party will break up the executive board room monopoly over executive pay decisions by passing a law that lets the owners of the company have a say in executive pay structure.

2) Spending power is down for all of us. You can thank a) our monetary policy, and b) foreign competition for the fall of the dollar. a) QE and unlimited bailouts... yeah that's the current to big to fail argument professed by both parties against the will of the voter. b) American consumers and corporate executives are profiting from the offshoring and of our jobs and illegal immigration workers that put downward pressure on wages. And neither party is willing to do a damn thing about it.

3) Minimum wage should be lower than it is. It should not be an option for adults to make a living on minimum wage jobs. Minimum wage is exactly what it says it is. If you are getting paid minimum it's because the job you are doing is barely necessary.

 

[BlackSand]

Typical lame argument cherry-pickin'. Two can play that game:
"The United States has the highest corporate tax rate in the world, at 35%. Add in state and local taxes and it averages 40%. No wonder America's most profitable, highest taxed companies will stop at nothing to keep their earnings overseas and out of the grasp of Uncle Sam. Here's a list of the 25 megacorps that pay megataxes..."

Which Corporate Giants Pay The Most In Taxes? - Forbes

Apple had to sell 10 million I Phones just to pay their tax bill to the US Treasury.
It is a sign of how government creates jobs when you have to manufacture, ship and sell 10 million phones just to pay your tax bill in the US alone.

.

 

[kaz]

Nope, I'm a moderate. I watch the republicans and democrats make fools of themselves. The two most corrupt parties in the history of our nation.

Liberals all think they're moderate. Liberals love to say that. So far I have only seen you argue with the left. It is what it is. And your post I was replying to included a ridiculous liberal stereotype of Republicans, a pure DNC talking point. If you're actually a moderate, why are you in bed with socialists?

So where were you when I was arguing against limiting or restricting gun rights? Where were you when I was arguing in favor of deporting ALL illegal aliens? Not there, right?

Where were you in the couple month discussion we've had on the subject? I checked the list and you didn't have a single post in it.

http://www.usmessageboard.com/polit...rom-criminals-liberals-what-is-your-plan.html

Guns and immigration are subjects where a small percent of liberals dissent. But they only mention that in other discussions on other topics like you did to demonstrate they are not liberal. They never actually debate liberals about those topics in actual discussions on the topic. Being a collectivist is still more important than the topic.

 

[BlackSand]

just my observation of how corporations and their apologists have seemly perverted Blackstone's Formulation,

"It is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer"

Where Blackstone felt the need to err on the side of the innocent, many now feel the need to err on the side of the guilty.

False Dichotomy ... Blackstone's formula does not change the fundamental party ... And a person is a person guilty or innocent.
If you were to say ... "It is better that 10 bad corporations be unpunished, than 1 innocent corporation suffer" ... Then that would be a better representation of Blackstone's Formula.
You seem to be the only one attempting to pervert the formula.

.

 

[Synthaholic]

More far left propaganda

Is that so, dope?


User fees: The alternative to tax hikes - David Rogers - POLITICO.com

Mitt Romney Used Fees To Close Budget Gap As Massachusetts Governor

SPIN METER: Romney used fees to close budget gap - Boston.com

Cut taxes? Raise them? GOP candidates' records examined | Politics | McClatchy DC

Romney, the governor of Massachusetts from 2003 until January, wouldn't sign a no-tax pledge in 2002 when he was seeking the state office. And he raised "user fees," closed corporate loopholes and increased business costs by hundreds of millions of dollars during his four-year term.
So fuck off.​

So when did anyone who doesn't buy into your silly socialist POV become a "dope?"
What the fuck happened to your brain?

I posted facts, backed up by 4 sources.

It's telling that you consider facts to be a POV. It shows that you disregard facts in favor of your own POV.

 

[Synthaholic]

Businesses don't pay taxes regardless of rates or shelters. They pass the taxes on to their consumers in the guise of higher costs. Right there in Microeconomics 101.

So go ahead and demand high taxes for businesses. It'll feel good, but don't bitch about how much stuff costs when you do.

If they raise the price too high, people won't buy it.

The American people are sick of being blackmailed by corporations.

 

[Impenitent]

just my observation of how corporations and their apologists have seemly perverted Blackstone's Formulation,

"It is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer"

Where Blackstone felt the need to err on the side of the innocent, many now feel the need to err on the side of the guilty.

False Dichotomy ... Blackstone's formula does not change the fundamental party ... And a person is a person guilty or innocent.
If you were to say ... "It is better that 10 bad corporations be unpunished, than 1 innocent corporation suffer" ... Then that would be a better representation of Blackstone's Formula.
You seem to be the only one attempting to pervert the formula.

.

Well, it is always easier to make the analogy than it is to sell it, particularly to an unwilling buyer.

 

[kaz]

Businesses don't pay taxes regardless of rates or shelters. They pass the taxes on to their consumers in the guise of higher costs. Right there in Microeconomics 101.

So go ahead and demand high taxes for businesses. It'll feel good, but don't bitch about how much stuff costs when you do.

If they raise the price too high, people won't buy it.

The American people are sick of being blackmailed by corporations.

An economics 101 course would change your life. You would learn about supply and demand curves. Companies won't produce a product with a negative NPV. Which is why higher taxes harm the economy, they have to pass along the cost. No one invests for pre-tax return, it's net return. Then demand drops and sales fall, it's government caused economic destruction.

Taxes are just a cost to businesses. Even liberals grasp that when the price of steel goes up, the price of refrigerators go up. But then taxes go up and you are like what do you mean? Why would prices go up?

 

[Synthaholic]

Suurreee she's not.....

Nope, I'm a moderate. I watch the republicans and democrats make fools of themselves. The two most corrupt parties in the history of our nation.

And Barry is most fiscally responsible president... ever.

He's pretty damn close. The facts bear that out.

 

[Synthaholic]

McDonald's orders 7,000 touchscreen kiosks to replace cashiers - Neowin


YOu wanna walk out on your job for more money. Guess what you now might lose your jobs all because of UNIONS who are greedy..

'Tis better that 10,000 workers be underpaid than one corporation suffer.

According to whom?

Sarcasm.

 

[BlackSand]

just my observation of how corporations and their apologists have seemly perverted Blackstone's Formulation,

"It is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer"

Where Blackstone felt the need to err on the side of the innocent, many now feel the need to err on the side of the guilty.

False Dichotomy ... Blackstone's formula does not change the fundamental party ... And a person is a person guilty or innocent.
If you were to say ... "It is better that 10 bad corporations be unpunished, than 1 innocent corporation suffer" ... Then that would be a better representation of Blackstone's Formula.
You seem to be the only one attempting to pervert the formula.

.

Well, it is always easier to make the analogy than it is to sell it, particularly to an unwilling buyer.

Well ...

If Blackstone's formula had been ... "It is better that 100 women be raped than 1 whore house prosper" ... Then your analogy might have been closer.

.

 

[Synthaholic]

Businesses don't pay taxes regardless of rates or shelters. They pass the taxes on to their consumers in the guise of higher costs. Right there in Microeconomics 101.

So go ahead and demand high taxes for businesses. It'll feel good, but don't bitch about how much stuff costs when you do.

If they raise the price too high, people won't buy it.

The American people are sick of being blackmailed by corporations.

An economics 101 course would change your life. You would learn about supply and demand curves. Companies won't produce a product with a negative NPV. Which is why higher taxes harm the economy, they have to pass along the cost. No one invests for pre-tax return, it's net return. Then demand drops and sales fall, it's government caused economic destruction.

Taxes are just a cost to businesses. Even liberals grasp that when the price of steel goes up, the price of refrigerators go up. But then taxes go up and you are like what do you mean? Why would prices go up?

Then another company will.

They don't have to pass along the cost. They could make cuts internally, within the company. They could pay their executives less. They could improve distribution. There are plenty of ways a company can absorb rather than pass on to consumers.

 

[Rshermr]

Seeing that these touch screens are growing fastest in Australia where the minimum wage is $15.00 an hour gave me a laugh.

Look at it this way, if the minimum wage workers want to make a high minimum wage, they will have to get up off their do nothing asses and learn to repair touch screens.

Yes, but I have noticed over the years that those afflicted with congenital idiocy do spend a lot of time laughing at nothing in particular. You may want to check that out.

 

[Foxfyre]

We have a saying around our house that we impose from time to time: "Don't make things harder than they have to be."

There is no such thing as an 'evil corporation.' Any evil exists emits from those who would use their corporation unethically or in an evil manner. Run a corporation badly and it will not survive. And the bad corporations can be controlled with a few simple rules and/or application of law:

1. Enforce existing RICO and fair trade laws.

2. Enforce NECESSARY environmental laws.

3. Enforce NECESSARY work safety laws; i.e. employees must be informed of and allowed or provided necesssary protection against known hazards.

4. Local communities can authorize and regulate a monopoly for say a utility company or cable company but make monopolies at the state and federal level illegal.

5. Make it illegal for any company to have any control over an employee's pension fund--keep that strictly within the control and ownership of the employee. Voila!! When a bad corporation like Enron folds up shop, the employee's pension fund remains safe and intact for each employee. Note: this would not prevent the employer from contributing to an employee's pension fund--they just wouldn't be able to take the money back once they contribute it.

6. Encourage insurance companies to develop and sell healthcare policies to individuals or families--policies that will be good wherever the person lives and are fully portable--instead of group policies owned by the employers. Note: this would not prevent the employer from contributing to the employee's healthcare premiums as part of their compensation package.

These simple steps are all that need to be in place and then the fedeal government should get out of the way and let the free market work. It wouldn't require a dime of taxpayer money other than a small amount to fund a very small bureaucracy to provide oversight and implementation of the NECESSARY laws and regulation. Any other needed laws can be handled much more efficiently and effectively at the state level.

Government regulation, excessive mandates and regulation, along with excessive taxation, has already destroyed most of our manufacturing base in this country, has driven out most of the service industry that can be done outside the country, and is forcing the hands on service industries that cannot relocate to go to more and more automation and downsizing work forces just to survive.

As a result we have more Americans out of work today than we have had at any time since the Great Depression. If you want to correct that, get the federal government out of it as much as possible and allow the free market to work. Do that and even with all those eeeeeeeevul corporations out there, we will quickly see such economic activity that all who want work can find work. And wages and benefits will naturally get better as companies compete for good people. And that would include McDonalds.

 

[Impenitent]

Businesses don't pay taxes regardless of rates or shelters. They pass the taxes on to their consumers in the guise of higher costs. Right there in Microeconomics 101.

So go ahead and demand high taxes for businesses. It'll feel good, but don't bitch about how much stuff costs when you do.

If they raise the price too high, people won't buy it.

The American people are sick of being blackmailed by corporations.

An economics 101 course would change your life. You would learn about supply and demand curves. Companies won't produce a product with a negative NPV. Which is why higher taxes harm the economy, they have to pass along the cost. No one invests for pre-tax return, it's net return. Then demand drops and sales fall, it's government caused economic destruction.

Taxes are just a cost to businesses. Even liberals grasp that when the price of steel goes up, the price of refrigerators go up. But then taxes go up and you are like what do you mean? Why would prices go up?

Fine. Yet I see no cost benefit analysis on this man vs machine question.

When monopoly becomes the norm, the greater good hinges on corporate decision.

I can see how it might benefit McDonalds, but show me how it is better for society that these jobs disappear.

 

[Impenitent]

False Dichotomy ... Blackstone's formula does not change the fundamental party ... And a person is a person guilty or innocent.
If you were to say ... "It is better that 10 bad corporations be unpunished, than 1 innocent corporation suffer" ... Then that would be a better representation of Blackstone's Formula.
You seem to be the only one attempting to pervert the formula.

.

Well, it is always easier to make the analogy than it is to sell it, particularly to an unwilling buyer.

Well ...

If Blackstone's formula had been ... "It is better that 100 women be raped than 1 whore house prosper" ... Then your analogy might have been closer.

.

It is not a dicotomy at all. Blackstone's formula plays no part in my argument.

 

[kaz]

If they raise the price too high, people won't buy it.

The American people are sick of being blackmailed by corporations.

An economics 101 course would change your life. You would learn about supply and demand curves. Companies won't produce a product with a negative NPV. Which is why higher taxes harm the economy, they have to pass along the cost. No one invests for pre-tax return, it's net return. Then demand drops and sales fall, it's government caused economic destruction.

Taxes are just a cost to businesses. Even liberals grasp that when the price of steel goes up, the price of refrigerators go up. But then taxes go up and you are like what do you mean? Why would prices go up?

Then another company will.

They don't have to pass along the cost. They could make cuts internally, within the company. They could pay their executives less. They could improve distribution. There are plenty of ways a company can absorb rather than pass on to consumers.

Don't forget laying off workers, particularly the ones who voted for government oppression.

And actually, other companies do pass along the costs. Econ101, stop fighting it. You'll look less clueless. At least a little. Probably not.

Also, companies are already doing those things, it's what happens in a competitive market. Econ101, all roads lead to you buying a clue...

 

[kaz]

An economics 101 course would change your life. You would learn about supply and demand curves. Companies won't produce a product with a negative NPV. Which is why higher taxes harm the economy, they have to pass along the cost. No one invests for pre-tax return, it's net return. Then demand drops and sales fall, it's government caused economic destruction.

Taxes are just a cost to businesses. Even liberals grasp that when the price of steel goes up, the price of refrigerators go up. But then taxes go up and you are like what do you mean? Why would prices go up?

Fine. Yet I see no cost benefit analysis on this man vs machine question.

There are a lot of costs and benefits, can you be more specific what you're looking for? My argument BTW is that government should not be incenting companies to go to machine by artificially driving up labor costs. That decision should be made by economic efficiency.

When monopoly becomes the norm, the greater good hinges on corporate decision.

The only true, sustainable monopoly is government and government enforced monopolies.

I can see how it might benefit McDonalds, but show me how it is better for society that these jobs disappear.

I've actually addressed that clearly if you go back in the thread, but the gist is that it provides consumers with cheaper prices, investors with more profits and helps US companies compete against international competitors.

Fear is not what's saving us, it's what's destroying us. Embrace the future, and encourage US companies to be efficient. That is what always has and always be the path to national wealth. And then there's more money to help the poor. All the left is doing now is making us all poor.

 

[WillReadmore]

This is just not correct. I could provide a long list of corporate officers who have gone to jail, beginning with Enron and Tyco. Madoff was a freaking corporation. Liability protections are afforded to a point but they are miles from absolute, not even close, any more than a will protects a person's heirs from probate. Why more corporate officers are not prosecuted has far more to do with the ability of the DA in any given situation to be confident in the case. And when it comes to crimes by corporate officers regarding insider trading, FINRA/SEC has a wide range of regulatory, access, enforcement and legal authority powers through the fed.

The primary instance that the protection a corporation provides matters to any significant degree is when a company is just getting off the ground and the owners (typically one or two) need the protections. When you get to the point where a company has any visibility at all and has gone public, you can bet that FINRA/SEC won't be terribly shy about watching every last freaking move being made, to the very best of their ability. A corporate officer can be a "greedy meany" all they want, until they make the wrong move, and if he tries to float some notion that working for a corporation gives him some kind of freaking immunity, holy crap, you'll quickly find the FINRA/SEC guys on the floor laughing hysterically.

The purpose of a corporation is to maximize shareholder value, and everything flows from that, including competition, innovation, consumer choice, value and efficiencies. While many here appear to simplistically think of a corporation as some monolithic beast worthy only of scorn, the fact remains that their lives have been dramatically improved by the value and innovation corporations bring, including the computer on which they are typing. And this is the sticking point that so many on the Left hate - they think that a corporation is supposed to somehow contribute to their romantic notion of "The Common Good", and the facts on the very existence of a corporation chafe them no end.

I learned this boring stuff when studying for my series 7, series 65, ChFC and CFP, and while practicing in the field for quite a while now.

.

It is a common logical fallacy to suggest that finding someone who was sent to jail means that they had no protection. All you've shown is that the corporate shield isn't total - it can be pierced.

The corporate shield certainly is not limited to start ups. Plus even major oil companies are considered to be in a perpetual start up stage for certain purposes.

Corporations can have various business practices and goals other than maximizing profit.

And, the reason we created corporations was for protection from liability. Other stuff followed, but we have corporations for protection against those who are harmed.

 

[BlackSand]

Well, it is always easier to make the analogy than it is to sell it, particularly to an unwilling buyer.

Well ...

If Blackstone's formula had been ... "It is better that 100 women be raped than 1 whore house prosper" ... Then your analogy might have been closer.

.

It is not a dicotomy at all. Blackstone's formula plays no part in my argument.

Hey ... You are the one that brought up Blackstone's Formula ... Not me.
You are the one the suggested a division between Blackstone's Formula and what you wanted to express in your analogy.
All I said is that your division was not valid in reference to Blackstone's Formula ... And it wasn't.

.