Send Fighter Jets To The Ukraine.

[zaangalewa]

What language are you using? Versteht doch kein normaler Mensch

Idiot.

 

[JWBooth]

Why no. Don't like the tit for tat thing? They say that what goes around comes around.

The strategic thinking of a retarded three year old.

 

[toomuchtime_]

And you should study and understand the relationship and function between the EU and the independent government of it's members.

The EU's primary task is to establish a unified format and concerted actions of the different EU members governments actions and laws. (that was one of the reasons for UK's Brexit)

The EU does not decide which MBT or if any MBT is supplied by e.g. Germany. The individual member states government decides that by himself. Nor does the EU decide when weapons are
supplied or as as to how they are supplied - that is every countries individual decision - centralized and coordinated by NATO.

That does not hinder or forbid an EU parliamentarian to talk to e.g. a member of Norway's government, any of Noways political party members, or to Mr. Aleksander Aamodt Kilde sitting
in an Oslo bar in regards to e.g. weapon supplies.

If you read my link, you understand the EU is trying to organize member states to supply Ukraine with ammunition, and it is soliciting funds from states that are not in the EU to help. There has been no such action by NATO. So when you say that NATO is helping to arm Ukraine, it is just more Putin trash talk.

 

[Kruska]

If you read my link, you understand the EU is trying to organize member states to supply Ukraine with ammunition, and it is soliciting funds from states that are not in the EU to help. There has been no such action by NATO. So when you say that NATO is helping to arm Ukraine, it is just more Putin trash talk.

You obviously don't understand as to what is going on.

The EU is supporting the individual members towards weapon/ammo supplies - since it has a greater weight then the individual member country - at least the EU hopes so.
The German government has been negotiating with numerous countries in regards to weapons and ammo - e.g. Qatar, Brazil, and Switzerland in regards to ammo for the Gepard it
decided to give to Ukraine. So far without success.

Again - THE EU DOES NOT DECIDE ANYTHING IN REGARDS TO WEAPONS OR AMMO

 

[GLASNOST]

Is it really possible that you do not see the double standard or are you only shucking & jiving with me in order to generate a good old fashioned (but friendly) debate by playing the devils' advocate?

Which or what double standard are you refering to, that I haven't pointed out already?

I suspect you've decided to dodge a VERY OBVIOUS question. That's too bad because I really (seriously) thought we were going to have an open and honest discussion. But it's not the first brick wall I've encountered and I'll survive this one too.

 

[toomuchtime_]

You obviously don't understand as to what is going on.

The EU is supporting the individual members towards weapon/ammo supplies - since it has a greater weight then the individual member country - at least the EU hopes so.
The German government has been negotiating with numerous countries in regards to weapons and ammo - e.g. Qatar, Brazil, and Switzerland in regards to ammo for the Gepard it
decided to give to Ukraine. So far without success.

Again - THE EU DOES NOT DECIDE ANYTHING IN REGARDS TO WEAPONS OR AMMO

You keep running from the facts. The EU and NATO both need unanimous votes to take any action but the EU is playing an active role in providing weapons to Ukraine.

The EU is seeking countries outside the bloc to join its efforts to collectively buy ammunition, with at least Norway already expressing interest, according to one EU official and two diplomats.

The push is part of an EU plan to help provide larger quantities of lower-cost ammunition for Ukraine, while also boosting Europe’s capacity to produce and resupply its own dwindling stocks. Canada could also be included in the scheme, added a second EU official, who, like the other officials and diplomats, spoke on the condition of anonymity.

The first step, as POLITICO first reported this week, is to dedicate at least €1 billion specifically to buy 155mm artillery shells — a much-needed munition in Ukraine’s fight against Russia. In theory, the more countries that participate, whether they’re in or out of the EU, the easier it will be to find the money and negotiate bigger contracts.

“It makes a lot of sense,” said Kusti Salm, the permanent secretary for Estonia’s Defense Ministry. “We see that these nations are very eager to support Ukraine and join all these types of initiatives.”

Estonia was key in initiating the joint-procurement plan in recent weeks and has been advocating for it since. “Russia shoots more howitzer rounds per day than Europe as a whole can manufacture in a month,” Salm stressed.

The proposal on the table would have countries place their contributions into a collective fund, known as the European Peace Facility. The EU would then negotiate a joint ammunition contract.

The scheme is a novel use of the fund, which since the war began has been used to reimburse countries for their weapons donations to Ukraine. So far, the EU has paid countries €3.6 billion to partially cover the costs of their military aid to Kyiv.

The possibility of looping in non-EU countries to help boost the fund was first floated vaguely this past week in the EU’s blueprint for its joint purchasing plan. The document, seen by POLITICO, raised the possibility that “like-minded partners could be invited to support this effort through voluntary financial contributions.”

EU woos outside countries for joint ammo-buying scheme

Norway has expressed interest, according to one EU official and two diplomats.

www.politico.eu

If you are still unable to understand the article, perhaps you can find someone to explain it to you.

 

[Dagosa]

And - for example - you placed hand grenades in the vagina of Vietnamese women and let them explode there. But that's okay for you because "right or wrong my country".

Trolling ?

 

[Dagosa]

NATO is not involved in facilitating the transfer of weapons to Ukraine, the EU is. NATO clearly condemns Russia's attempt to colonize Ukraine and is urging member states to strengthen their defenses to prepare for a possible direct confrontation with Russia but NATO has not taken any direct action to aid Ukraine. Stop repeating Putin's lies.

There is abundant evidence that Russia is running low on ammunition and has sustained enormous casualties in its attempt to take Bakhmut, so there is no possibility Russia can win this war in any sense or even control he Donbass.

If NATO were to enter this war, it would not be with "boots on the ground" but with planes in the air and it would quickly establish air superiority and use it to destroy the Russian forces in Ukraine.
Based on bad intelligence and inferior military leadership, Putin blundered into a war it was not prepared to fight, and unrealistic expectations like yours will insure the war will result in a badly broken Russia.

Exactly.
If Russia were a democratic nation and Putin worried about his next election he wouldn’t be conducting the invasion the way he has. Unpopular wars have always had a way of grinding up and spitting out elected presidents in democracies.

 

[para bellum]

that is every countries individual decision - centralized and coordinated by NATO.

No, it is not centralized and coordinated by NATO. It is centralized and coordinated by the Ukraine Defense Contact Group- the so-called "Ramstein Group".

The UDCG is not under NATO or US Command- it's an ad-hoc group of defense officials and industry representatives from 50 countries. It was proposed and facilitated by the Pentagon, but it is not subordinate to any US or NATO command.

Ukraine tells them what's needed, and they try to figure out a way to get it done. The amount of assistance any country offers is their own decision, it's not up to NATO or someone else.

There is intelligence sharing from NATO member states, non-NATO states, commercial companies, OSINT, and wherever else Ukraine can get it. The decisions wrt Ukraine's conduct of the war are made by Zelensky and the GSUA.

 

[para bellum]

Back to the topic for a moment, this is a good read on the subject of F-16's and Ukraine.

This Is How Long It Would Really Take Ukraine's Pilots To Convert To F-16s

Just learning to fly an F-16 is a small aspect of what it would take for a Ukrainian fighter pilot to be combat ready in the type.

www.thedrive.com

 

[dimensional]

It’s you who’s talking about ”commies”. Where do you see these ”commies” that you keep talking about? Are they hidden beneath all of the WMDs you didn’t find in the Iraki desert?

Where do you get the idea that there was a North Vietnam and a South Vietnam in the first place?

You really, seriously don't know anything at all about France in Indo-China and what took place during WW II and imminently after it. Why you think you have something relevant to say about it is a complete mystery.

Wrong. Completely wrong. This proves that you do not know what the colonization of Indo-China was all about.

Obviously.

Wrong again. Do you know what an "Agreement” is, what it means, and who takes part in it?

It’s good to see you’ve understood that part of it. Now, all you need to do is apply it to the facts of the Minsk Agreement.

You are too stupid to talk to.

 

[dimensional]

Huh ? Are you saying we should now invade Russia ? What are you saying ? You really don’t seem to know the goals. The goals were not to conquer nations. North Vietnam had little industrial complex and there was literally, no place to occupy. I don’t know what your point is . Bases and occupations in every war put more American troops at risk, big time. That’s why we have no need to put troops in Ukraine. The nation would stand for it the same way they revolted vs the Vietnam war.

No. I'm not saying we should invade Russia.

 

[dimensional]

Do you have a permission of the EU to do so? Exists any UNO-declaration which makes legal such an attack? Howelse do you justify US-pilots in fight with Russian pilots with ¿or without (¿how?)? nuclear equipment?

Sending jets to the Ukraine. That is the topic of this thread.

 

[Dagosa]

No. I'm not saying we should invade Russia.

Right, we don’t invade countries that invade countries we have no security treaty with like the NATO nations. Nor should we provide anything but some limited defensive weapons and neither should we occupy them with American troops.

 

[dimensional]

Right, we don’t invade countries that invade countries we have no security treaty with like the NATO nations. Nor should we provide anything but some limited defensive weapons and neither should we occupy them with American troops.

Defensive weapons? The best defensive weapon is an offensive weapon.

 

[tahuyaman]

If the EU wants to support Ukraine, that’s fine. After all, this war is in their back yard. It’s not in our back yard and not within US national interests.

 

[Dagosa]

Defensive weapons? The best defensive weapon is an offensive weapon.

Range, in case you need help. We have not sent artillery, drones or other munitions capable of destroying missile launching frigates in the surrounding seas. What makes you think we should supplying fighters we don’t even supply to all our NATO nations, capable of attacking well into Russia and well out to sea ? The only thing that makes sense, is to replace the same planes used by Urkrain as needed that were made in Russia that are also used by some of our NATO allies. You do know that Ukraine has 50 fighters and only uses them in a limited way. Ever ask why ?

 

[Dagosa]

Defensive weapons? The best defensive weapon is an offensive weapon.

The best weapons are their pilots. It doesn’t matter what is sent, it matters only who can use the equipment.
They may not even have enough pilots. They have plenty of aircraft.

Ukraine Has Lots Of MiG-29s, But It Might Not Have Enough Pilots

The MiG-29 is the Ukrainian air force’s most numerous fighter—even after a drunken officer accidentally rammed one of the twin-engine jets in his car last year, destroying it.

www.forbes.com

 

[GLASNOST]

It’s you who’s talking about ”commies”. Where do you see these ”commies” that you keep talking about? Are they hidden beneath all of the WMDs you didn’t find in the Iraki desert?

Where do you get the idea that there was a North Vietnam and a South Vietnam in the first place?

You really, seriously don't know anything at all about France in Indo-China and what took place during WW II and imminently after it. Why you think you have something relevant to say about it is a complete mystery.

Wrong. Completely wrong. This proves that you do not know what the colonization of Indo-China was all about.

Obviously.

Wrong again. Do you know what an "Agreement” is, what it means, and who takes part in it?

It’s good to see you’ve understood that part of it. Now, all you need to do is apply it to the facts of the Minsk Agreement.

You are too stupid to talk to.

Gosh! What an in-depth rebuttal to a full page page of logic and documented fact!

 

[Kruska]

No, it is not centralized and coordinated by NATO.

It is, all trainings regarding e.g. combat, maintenance, etc. and transports are conducted via NATO and it's respective national armed forces. So is intel information. Collected,
gathered and analyzed by the various NATO intel communities and then centralized at NATO/NIFC/JIS and from there relayed to the Ukrainian MoD/intel branches.
This does not exclude e.g. the CIA giving such information to Ukraine without needing NATO consent or NATO even knowing about it.

GPS collected data need to be relayed via satellites and AWACS systems to e.g. HIMARS to hit a moving target - Ukraine does not have own satellites and AWACS , Google
does not provide an up-link to a HIMARS guidance control ground system or to its inertial navigation system within the individual missile. So it's guided via NATO or US
satellites - don't try to bring in e.g. Elon Musk into this.

It is centralized and coordinated by the Ukraine Defense Contact Group- the so-called "Ramstein Group".

The UDCG was instituted and is chaired solely by the USA, it's the primary tool for the USA in regards to gather and coordinate Ukraine support. - it's presiding members are
the respective defense ministers, chief of staffs, of all NATO countries and some non-NATO countries. It has no decision making ability without NATO or the respective members national governments consent. Why do you think e.g. Chancellor Scholz talks to Biden? or other heads of states? before a national parliamentary decision is done. And then relayed to NATO.
NATO doesn't just work for Ukraine alone - that is why the Ramstein-Contact Group was initiated. It's nothing else but a centralization of numerous sub-department/commissions of NATO (JWGDR, JWGDTC, NUC, CAP, etc. etc. (solely chaired and run by the USA). Unlike the e.g. NATO Kosovo or NATO Libya Contact Group.

Stating the Ramstein-Contact Group is independent from NATO, or isn't NATO is a totally false statement, trying to distort reality via word games.