Share the Wealth?

[LostInOhio]

The thing that missing in this analogy no one starves or gets sick and dies because of the lack of candy.

No one's candy is sent to Mexico, China, or India.

No one has to spend 12 hours a day trick or treating to have enough candy to get by while Paris Hilton has more candy then she'll ever eat.

The candy analogy only works when you're talking about candy. Therefore, it's not a good analogy.

Now, if we want to talk about giving money to people who are working the system so that they don't have to work.. I'm all ears.

 

[Zoom-boing]

The thing that missing in this analogy no one starves or gets sick and dies because of the lack of candy.

No one's candy is sent to Mexico, China, or India.

No one has to spend 12 hours a day trick or treating to have enough candy to get by while Paris Hilton has more candy then she'll ever eat.

The candy analogy only works when you're talking about candy. Therefore, it's not a good analogy.
Now, if we want to talk about giving money to people who are working the system so that they don't have to work.. I'm all ears.

True there are 700 billion other conditions that factor into the 'real world' application of this but . . . I used a simple example mostly to look at the principle of the idea. Both kids had opportunity, one chose to go out for a shorter period of time then kick back with the neighbors and the other chose to keep walking around, thus acquiring more candy. Aside from the 'niceness' factor, why should she have to share some of what she worked for with her brother?

 

[Luissa]

This almost sounds made up it's so easy. Your daughter put in the time, your son didn't. They are each entitled to yield related to their level of effort, it's that simple. The only argument here is what you define as fair: equal outcomes or equal opportunity. They both had the same opportunity.

I don't see the equal opportunity here! No one with special needs as same opportunities as one without! And like Pauli said your daughter does not need that much candy and neither does your son. Maybe you should donate some out of the kindness of your heart!

 

[LostInOhio]

True there are 700 billion other conditions that factor into the 'real world' application of this but . . . I used a simple example mostly to look at the principle of the idea. Both kids had opportunity, one chose to go out for a shorter period of time then kick back with the neighbors and the other chose to keep walking around, thus acquiring more candy. Aside from the 'niceness' factor, why should she have to share some of what she worked for with her brother?

You're assuming everyone with more candy did more work.
Maybe if we gave the girl with the most candy, more candy, somehow some of it would trickle down to the brother! I'm sure she wouldn't just keep it all for herself.
Sorry about that...

 

[Paulie]

What if I said she HAD to share? In other words, I made that the rule?

Well, you are the parent, and only you know what's best for your children.

My kids do it for the fun of it. They're lucky to keep ANY of the candy. I only like fruity, chewy candy, so unless it's that, or M&M's for my daughter, most of it goes to waste or is given away.

 

[PackMule]

Friday night my two youngest went trick or treating. My son went out for about 30-45 minutes and hit around 30 houses. He decided to call it a night because he wanted to hang at our neighbors (they had a bonfire going and friends/kids over). My daughter was out for about 1 1/2 - 2 hours and hit around 100-125 houses. So she has about three times as much candy as he does.

My son is 15 and special needs (autistic spectrum disorder) but has no physical limitations that would prevent him from going to more houses. I knew he'd only go to so many houses so I dumped many handfuls of the candy we were handing out into his bag after he got back so he'd have more than just what he collected.

Now my son is complaining that his sitter (she's 11) has so much more candy than he does and he thinks she should give him some of hers. She, of course, is bellyaching that she should not have to do this.

Explain to me why my daughter should - or shouldn't - have to share her candy with her brother (besides it being a 'nice' thing for her to do).[/QUOTE--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Well Since The Little Girl Took more chances, than the boy & He Was Satisfied with what he got safely ( Presumably). She should Keep & Invest so she can have something sweet to eat when she needs it. If it isn't contaminated. ( Remembering if she & He Got that candy by threatening others, there maybe repercussions.) You Are Responsible, if they get HARMED!!!

 

[Bern80]

because it is good to teach your children to share with their siblings, their family, and also to share with others....strangers.

they are at the age, where teaching them compassion and sharing and kindness to others sinks in best, an impressionable age.

you, are their guide....

if more people followed the gift of giving, we would NOT NEED government to be helping our neighbors when in need....imo.

care

It is good to encourage behavior. Forcing behavior doesn't foster good behavior, just resentment.

 

[Bern80]

Because no one needs 250,000 pieces of candy.

Besides, in my example, she'd only be giving him 3% more with Obama than with McCain.

Both Obama and McCain are capitalists - the Socialist Party's candidate for president even said so.

This socialist attack is just the latest piece of crap that monkey McCain has thrown at the American people in hopes that that poo will stick onto some people.

Oh yeah! I fit talk about poop into a political conversation!

So in short you would be fine with doing away with a free labor market and mandating what the maximum someone can make is?

 

[Care4all]

neither of your chikdren did any work...walking is not work, so they both just got handouts from your neighbors, so the question should be...

should you teach your children at such a young age, that handouts are ok? j/k

 

[Care4all]

It is good to encourage behavior. Forcing behavior doesn't foster good behavior, just resentment.

i guess you were just trying to get some point in on that bern....?

When you are a parent, YOU are in control of all situations and YOU have the responsibility as the parent to teach your children values....

i never said a thing about force....

but....i do feel if that is what it takes as the parent to make their child ''see the light'' so to say, on something that is very important, then it is your duty to be forceful....not saying this particular circumstance applies as one of the very important things, but none the less...you are in charge as the parent and should always remember that, imo....

Children learn morals and ethics and even common sense thru their parents, again, imo Bern.

 

[Paulie]

neither of your chikdren did any work...walking is not work, so they both just got handouts from your neighbors, so the question should be...

should you teach your children at such a young age, that handouts are ok? j/k

Not necessarily. In the case of trick or treating, the "work" required to obtain the profit (the candy) is to walk to each house, knock, and utter the phrase. Some good manners don't hurt, either.

The "handout" is if you choose not to participate in trick or treat, but expect your sibling to come home and fill you up with their candy.

Some people do nothing BUT walk at their jobs, and they earn a paycheck for doing so. Walking most certainly is work.

 

[Bern80]

i guess you were just trying to get some point in on that bern....?

When you are a parent, YOU are in control of all situations and YOU have the responsibility as the parent to teach your children values....

i never said a thing about force....

but....i do feel if that is what it takes as the parent to make their child ''see the light'' so to say, on something that is very important, then it is your duty to be forceful....not saying this particular circumstance applies as one of the very important things, but none the less...you are in charge as the parent and should always remember that, imo....

Children learn morals and ethics and even common sense thru their parents, again, imo Bern.

Don't play dumb Care. This is an analogy. Of course we need our children to do the 'right thing'. You just can't make a case for that here. Two people chose the level of effort they were going to put forth. Their outcomes reflect that effort. You aren't teaching any good behavior by even encouraging the daughter to give to the son.

You want to talk about good life lessons? Let's assume for arguments sake that some of the daughters candy is given to the son. What have you really taught each individual? You have taught the son that his effort is irrelevant and that someone will always make outcomes even for him. Lets say junior wants more candy. Since we have taken candy from daughter to give to son, if he has any brain at all, what will son do next year?

Meanwhile you have also reduced daughters incentive to put effort forth. Why would she if it's simply going to be taken away in the end?

 

[PackMule]

Friday night my two youngest went trick or treating. My son went out for about 30-45 minutes and hit around 30 houses. He decided to call it a night because he wanted to hang at our neighbors (they had a bonfire going and friends/kids over). My daughter was out for about 1 1/2 - 2 hours and hit around 100-125 houses. So she has about three times as much candy as he does.

My son is 15 and special needs (autistic spectrum disorder) but has no physical limitations that would prevent him from going to more houses. I knew he'd only go to so many houses so I dumped many handfuls of the candy we were handing out into his bag after he got back so he'd have more than just what he collected.

Now my son is complaining that his sitter (she's 11) has so much more candy than he does and he thinks she should give him some of hers. She, of course, is bellyaching that she should not have to do this.

Explain to me why my daughter should - or shouldn't - have to share her candy with her brother (besides it being a 'nice' thing for her to do).[/QUOTE--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Well Since The Little Girl Took more chances, than the boy & He Was Satisfied with what he got safely ( Presumably). She should Keep & Invest so she can have something sweet to eat when she needs it. If it isn't contaminated. ( Remembering if she & He Got that candy by threatening others, there maybe repercussions.) You Are Responsible, if they get HARMED!!!

IN CASE YOU DON'T SEE IT: BUSH IS RESPONSIBLE & Officers "in Iraq".

If you forgive your Children, They need Forgiveness From the ones they Threatened!

 

[Care4all]

Not necessarily. In the case of trick or treating, the "work" required to obtain the profit (the candy) is to walk to each house, knock, and utter the phrase. Some good manners don't hurt, either.

The "handout" is if you choose not to participate in trick or treat, but expect your sibling to come home and fill you up with their candy.

Some people do nothing BUT walk at their jobs, and they earn a paycheck for doing so. Walking most certainly is work.

i was just kidding paul....

no one goes to houses up where i live, no real neighborhood....many children go to the mall and the different stores distribute the candy...or parties.

i remember as a young child, when i lived in Brooklyn with my grandparents while my father was in Viet Nam, my sister and i would only have to walk one city block, and we would come home with enough candy for a year, of which my mother had my sister and i share with eachother for the night then took it all away from us....

 

[Bern80]

I don't see the equal opportunity here! No one with special needs as same opportunities as one without! And like Pauli said your daughter does not need that much candy and neither does your son. Maybe you should donate some out of the kindness of your heart!

So the parent is lieing about his child's ability to compete equally with his sister?

 

[Paulie]

Don't play dumb Care. This is an analogy. Of course we need our children to do the 'right thing'. You just can't make a case for that here. Two people chose the level of effort they were going to put forth. Their outcomes reflect that effort. You aren't teaching any good behavior by even encouraging the daughter to give to the son.

You want to talk about good life lessons? Let's assume for arguments sake that some of the daughters candy is given to the son. What have you really taught each individual? You have taught the son that his effort is irrelevant and that someone will always make outcomes even for him. Lets say junior wants more candy. Since we have taken candy from daughter to give to son, if he has any brain at all, what will son do next year?

Meanwhile you have also reduced daughters incentive to put effort forth. Why would she if it's simply going to be taken away in the end?

Bern makes a great point here, especially the part I bolded.

This is the biggest moral hazzard in regards to socialism, or in this case, candy hand-outs.

It reduces the incentive to work hard and achieve more, and increases the mentality that minimal work still pays maximal benefits.

So the hard workers will work less hard, and the lazy people will continue to be lazy, knowing that they will still be rewarded for it.

That's really a society you want to live in, Care?

 

[Care4all]

Bern makes a great point here, especially the part I bolded.

This is the biggest moral hazzard in regards to socialism, or in this case, candy hand-outs.

It reduces the incentive to work hard and achieve more, and increases the mentality that minimal work still pays maximal benefits.

So the hard workers will work less hard, and the lazy people will continue to be lazy, knowing that they will still be rewarded for it.

That's really a society you want to live in, Care?

i don't see any relation to working....and feel at a young age, it is important to teach your children about sharing with ones own family siblings and with others....there is a way to teach them about work ethics, of which Glockmail had a good example with how he pays his children an allowance based on work and work load....

this really isn't about work....halloween....it is a holiday that can be used to teach your children about sharing, (they always get excesses of candy that is not even good for them)....but by all means, you and bern can teach them about work ethics if that is what you feel is more important!!!

I did not note that her children were old, until now....i never even went trick or treating over the age of 12 or so....was more in to "mischief nite" at the age of her son...

 

[Bern80]

i don't see any relation to working....and feel at a young age, it is important to teach your children about sharing with ones own family siblings and with others....there is a way to teach them about work ethics, of which Glockmail had a good example with how he pays his children an allowance based on work and work load....

Then you need to seriously think about ALL of the lessons you are teaching your children in this analogy. How is the work one puts forth for candy different from the work put forth for an alloowance?

 

[Paulie]

i don't see any relation to working....and feel at a young age, it is important to teach your children about sharing with ones own family siblings and with others....there is a way to teach them about work ethics, of which Glockmail had a good example with how he pays his children an allowance based on work and work load....

this really isn't about work....halloween....it is a holiday that can be used to teach your children about sharing, (they always get excesses of candy that is not even good for them)....but by all means, you and bern can teach them about work ethics if that is what you feel is more important!!!

I did not note that her children were old, until now....i never even went trick or treating over the age of 12 or so....was more in to "mischief nite" at the age of her son...

Whether you are TRYING to teach your children work ethics or not, they very well may still be learning them regardless, by how you handle the situation.

The son who's being given an equal amount of candy even though he put less work in to get his, may very well be learning that he doesn't have to work as hard and will still get an equal share.

So now you may be faced with a child who is learning that less work still pays off, even if you didn't intend to teach him ANYTHING.

 

[Paulie]

Next Halloween, the son will be expecting an equal amount of candy, and probably won't feel like he has to spend as much time knocking on doors as the sister.

Eventually, he probably won't even want to trick or treat at all, and will just expect his candy ration to be given to him later on in the night when sister's done walking around for 2 hours in the chilly, late October night.