Shooting at outlet mall in Texas

[HeyNorm]

Now conservatives are going to play dumb about whether the guy was transgender or not transgender.

Prove he was either.

 

[Penelope]

but 84 million voted for Biden !

Biden doen't have anything to do with mass shootings and suicides.

Get rid of more than 10 bullets for mags.

 

[HeyNorm]

In Texas? Maybe post that policy implementation and change so I can learn about what you seem to know.

It probably would have spread nationwide, and stopped many killings, but we have to deal with the pansies on the left. So nothing can be done.

 

[citygator]

We have addressed it over and over again and given actual solutions....you leftists just want to take guns away from people who didn't use their guns for any crime or murder....

You guys are the vile ones, not us....

Dumbass statement. All shooters were guys who didn’t kill anyone… until they did. You have a Minority Report solution?

 

[surada]

You haven't done the math problem yet.....

Europe murdered 15 million innocent men, women and children in just 6 years, between 1939-1945......over 1 million children ....

Gun murder in the U.S. over our entire 246 year history...around 2,460,000....

How many hundreds of years will it take us to catch up to European murder?

Please show your work....

You're talking about nationalism giving rise to war.. use your brain.

 

[citygator]

It probably would have spread nationwide, and stopped many killings, but we have to deal with the pansies on the left. So nothing can be done.

 

[HeyNorm]

Dumbass statement. All shooters were guys who didn’t kill anyone… until they did. You have a Minority Report solution?

How do you know they didn’t kill anyone previously?

 

[HeyNorm]

View attachment 782976

What? I supported the policy. It was you that had a hissy fit about it.

 

[2aguy]

He don't have anything to do with Biden

Get rid of more than 10 bullets for mags.

What does that do?

Nothing.

magazine capacity has nothing to do with how many die.

What causes the death rate?

The amount of free time in the gun free zone the killer has until a good person with a gun stops him with a gun......

http://freakoutery.com/2019/08/doctors-are-wrong-about-firearm-effectiveness-in-mass-shootings/

If you’re treating one patient at a time, and you see two patients, one with a handgun wound and another with a rifle wound, you’re obviously going to think that rifles are worse, and they’re the obvious choice to commit a mass shooting, and such. But those doctors aren’t thinking about the engagement itself.

Actual Engagements​

The Sandy Hook shooter fired 154 shots in five minutes. The Parkland shooter fired 150 shots in seven minutes. Neither shooter engaged another armed opponent, where reload times would have mattered. Either shooting could have transpired just as easily with a 10 round magazine as a 30 round magazine. In fact, the Parkland shooter used a blend of both 10 and 30 round magazines. (see footnote) The limitation on both instances was not fire rate, nor reload time, nor in fact range. The limitation was how many rounds the shooter could fit in their school backpack.
If either shooter had chosen a standard police sidearm as their implement instead of the dreaded AR-15, they would have been able to fire over 100 extra rounds before the shooting ended, wounding and potentially killing many more people in the process.
Not only that, a handgun is concealable. Nobody would see the shooter coming. Nobody would know who the shooter even was, if he decided to stash his weapons back in his backpack. He could walk right past the police, goof off for a while at the periphery of the chaos, and go shoot someplace else up later.
Which is similar to what happened at Virginia Tech.
At 7:15 AM the shooter kills his RA and his RA’s girlfriend. Walks out.
At 8 AM, he relaxes, reloads, gets read for the next shooting.
At 9 AM the shooter goes to the post office, mails out Ye Olde Manifesto of Crazy Garbage.
At 9:45 AM the shooter chains the doors shut to Norris Hall, rampages for 9 minutes, shooting 47 people, killing 30, gets confronted by police, shoots himself.
The VT shooter carried 17 mags. He used a Walther P22 and a Glock 19. Splitting the mags up and back-figuring the number of rounds he carried, it’s quite likely he was up in the 250 round range, like my graph speculates above. And because his guns were concealable, he could have concealed them again, left the scene of that crime, and then done it a third time somewhere else. Maybe another building on campus. Maybe a different campus. Or the nearest Walmart.
Using pistols, the VT shooter killed almost twice as many people as at Parkland. He killed half again as many people as Sandy Hook, and the Sandy Hook victims were literally children. Little kids. This idea doctors have that AR-15s make mass shooting incidents magically more deadly than pistols is fundamentally, scientifically, and self-evidently wrong. It is a lie.
I understand why they think it. They think it because they see one patient on a gurney, and not a building full of wounded and dying people laying there for tens of minutes waiting for emergency response to arrive. They think it because the 30 dead ones at Virginia Tech didn’t even make it in to ER. They think it because they’ve never loaded up a backpack full of mags.

But You Can’t Write That​

I’ve been holding back on this topic for a while, because I have some fear that a mass shooter will read this article and get ideas about how to better kill people. That’s a real ethical conundrum as a writer. But in the end, not writing it is worse. Here’s why.
Presuming you could somehow magically evaporate all semiautomatic rifles in the country, which you can’t, you wouldn’t make mass shootings less deadly anyway. You’d literally be funneling mass shooters into more effective weapons for the horrible thing they’ve decided to do. Casualty rates for mass shootings would go up instead of down, if the gun control people got their way.
No mass shooter is sitting at home saying, “Boy, you know, I’d love to go shoot up a school today if I only had an AR-15 rifle, but unfortunately all I have access to is this crumby Glock 19 so I guess I’ll play X-Box instead.” The entire idea is asinine. Mass shooters aren’t choosing the AR-15 rifle because it’s better at mass shootings. They’re choosing it because they’re idiots. If they weren’t idiots, they wouldn’t be mass shooters.
The few mass shooters who choose AR-15s for intellectual reasons, are doing so purely because of the way the media will cover the shooting. This was the case in New Zealand. As an American, I’m allowed the freedom to read that nitwit’s manifesto, and he stated that explicitly.

 

[Penelope]

Yep........but the democrats and rino republicans want illegals in the country.......which is why so many voted for Trump.

Republicans want them.

 

[2aguy]

Biden doen't have anything to do with mass shootings and suicides.

Get rid of more than 10 bullets for mags.

Again.....magazine capacity is not relevant to mass public shootings.....

Magazine capacity does not determine how many are killed......

The amount of time the killer has in a gun free zone before someone shoots at and stops them determines how many get killed



http://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/1525107116674926

Large-Capacity Magazines and the Casualty Counts in Mass Shootings: The Plausibility of Linkages by Gary Kleck :: SSRN

I.

Do bans on large-capacity magazines (LCMs) for semiautomatic firearms have significant potential for reducing the number of deaths and injuries in mass shootings?
========
In sum, in nearly all LCM-involved mass shootings, the time it takes to reload a detachable magazine is no greater than the average time between shots that the shooter takes anyway when not reloading.

Consequently, there is no affirmative evidence that reloading detachable magazines slows mass shooters’ rates of fire, and thus no affirmative evidence that the number of victims who could escape the killers due to additional pauses in the shooting is increased by the shooter’s need to change magazines.
==========

The most common rationale for an effect of LCM use is that they allow mass killers to fire many rounds without reloading.


LCMs are used is less than 1/3 of 1% of mass shootings.

News accounts of 23 shootings in which more than six people were killed or wounded and LCMs were used, occurring in the U.S. in 1994-2013, were examined.

There was only one incident in which the shooter may have been stopped by bystander intervention when he tried to reload.

In all of these 23 incidents the shooter possessed either multiple guns or multiple magazines, meaning that the shooter, even if denied LCMs, could have continued firing without significant interruption by either switching loaded guns or by changing smaller loaded magazines with only a 2-4 second delay for each magazine change.


Finally, the data indicate that mass shooters maintain slow enough rates of fire such that the time needed to reload would not increase the time between shots and thus the time available for prospective victims to escape.

--------

We did not employ the oft-used definition of “mass murder” as a homicide in which four or more victims were killed, because most of these involve just four to six victims (Duwe 2007), which could therefore have involved as few as six rounds fired, a number that shooters using even ordinary revolvers are capable of firing without reloading.

LCMs obviously cannot help shooters who fire no more rounds than could be fired without LCMs, so the inclusion of “nonaffectable” cases with only four to six victims would dilute the sample, reducing the percent of sample incidents in which an LCM might have affected the number of casualties.

Further, had we studied only homicides with four or more dead victims, drawn from the FBI’s Supplementary Homicide Reports, we would have missed cases in which huge numbers of people were shot, and huge numbers of rounds were fired, but three or fewer of the victims died.


For example, in one widely publicized shooting carried out in Los Angeles on February 28, 1997, two bank robbers shot a total of 18 people - surely a mass shooting by any reasonable standard (Table 1).

Yet, because none of the people they shot died, this incident would not qualify as a mass murder (or even murder of any kind).

Exclusion of such incidents would bias the sample against the proposition that LCM use increases the number of victims by excluding incidents with large numbers of victims. We also excluded shootings in which more than six persons were shot over the entire course of the incident but shootings occurred in multiple locations with no more than six people shot in any one of the locations, and substantial periods of time intervened between episodes of shooting. An example is the series of killings committed by Rodrick Dantzler on July 7, 2011.

Once eligible incidents were identified, we searched through news accounts for details related to whether the use of LCMs could have influenced the casualty counts.

Specifically, we searched for

(1) the number of magazines in the shooter’s immediate possession,

(2) the capacity of the largest magazine,

(3) the number of guns in the shooter’s immediate possession during the incident,

(4) the types of guns possessed,

(5) whether the shooter reloaded during the incident,

(6) the number of rounds fired,

(7) the duration of the shooting from the first shot fired to the last, and (8) whether anyone intervened to stop the shooter.

Findings How Many Mass Shootings were Committed Using LCMs?

We identified 23 total incidents in which more than six people were shot at a single time and place in the U.S. from 1994 through 2013 and that were known to involve use of any magazines with capacities over ten rounds.


Table 1 summarizes key details of the LCMinvolved mass shootings relevant to the issues addressed in this paper.

(Table 1 about here) What fraction of all mass shootings involve LCMs?

There is no comprehensive listing of all mass shootings available for the entire 1994-2013 period, but the most extensive one currently available is at the Shootingtracker.com website, which only began its coverage in 2013.

-----



-----

The offenders in LCM-involved mass shootings were also known to have reloaded during 14 of the 23 (61%) incidents with magazine holding over 10 rounds.

The shooters were known to have not reloaded in another two of these 20 incidents and it could not be determined if they reloaded in the remaining seven incidents.

Thus, even if the shooters had been denied LCMs, we know that most of them definitely would have been able to reload smaller detachable magazines without interference from bystanders since they in fact did change magazines.

The fact that this percentage is less than 100% should not, however, be interpreted to mean that the shooters were unable to reload in the other nine incidents.

It is possible that the shooters could also have reloaded in many of these nine shootings, but chose not to do so, or did not need to do so in order to fire all the rounds they wanted to fire. This is consistent with the fact that there has been at most only one mass shootings in twenty years in which reloading a semiautomatic firearm might have been blocked by bystanders intervening and thereby stopping the shooter from doing all the shooting he wanted to do. All we know is that in two incidents the shooter did not reload, and news accounts of seven other incidents did not mention whether the offender reloaded.

----

For example, a story in the Hartford Courant about the Sandy Hook elementary school killings in 2012 was headlined “Shooter Paused, and Six Escaped,” the text asserting that as many as six children may have survived because the shooter paused to reload (December 23, 2012). ''

The author of the story, however, went on to concede that this was just a speculation by an unnamed source, and that it was also possible that some children simply escaped when the killer was shooting other children.

There was no reliable evidence that the pauses were due to the shooter reloading, rather than his guns jamming or the shooter simply choosing to pause his shooting while his gun was still loaded.

The plausibility of the “victims escape” rationale depends on the average rates of fire that shooters in mass shootings typically maintain.

If they fire very fast, the 2-4 seconds it takes to change box-type detachable magazines could produce a slowing of the rate of fire that the shooters otherwise would have maintained without the magazine changes, increasing the average time between rounds fired and potentially allowing more victims to escape during the betweenshot intervals.

On the other hand, if mass shooters fire their guns with the average interval between shots lasting more than 2-4 seconds, the pauses due to additional magazine changes would be no longer than the pauses the shooter typically took between shots even when not reloading.

In that case, there would be no more opportunity for potential victims to escape than there would have been without the additional magazine changes

-----


http://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/1525107116674926

 

[pyetro]

Gangs shootings.

Greg Abbott over the years:
Allen: "unspeakable tragedy"
Cleveland: "senseless act"
Uvalde: "senseless crime"
White Settlement: "evil act"
Midland-Odessa: "senseless & cowardly attack"
El Paso: "heinous & senseless act"
Santa Fe: "act of evil"
Sutherland Springs: "horrific act"

 

[bigrebnc1775]

Greg Abbott over the years:
Allen: "unspeakable tragedy"
Cleveland: "senseless act"
Uvalde: "senseless crime"
White Settlement: "evil act"
Midland-Odessa: "senseless & cowardly attack"
El Paso: "heinous & senseless act"
Santa Fe: "act of evil"
Sutherland Springs: "horrific act"

Carry a gun

 

[2aguy]

You're talking about nationalism giving rise to war.. use your brain.

No......these were not war dead, killed as collateral to the war.

These were people rounded up in pacified countries, marched into forests and camps and murdered......under the control of leftists....

 

[bigrebnc1775]

Biden doen't have anything to do with mass shootings and suicides.

Get rid of more than 10 bullets for mags.

Stupid you have multiple armed attackers do you have enough ammo with 10 rounds?

 

[citygator]

How do you know they didn’t kill anyone previously?

Are you asking me how I know someone didn’t kill BEFORE they killed? Think about it carefully.

 

[2aguy]

Republicans want them.

Democrats want them more......

 

[2aguy]

Greg Abbott over the years:
Allen: "unspeakable tragedy"
Cleveland: "senseless act"
Uvalde: "senseless crime"
White Settlement: "evil act"
Midland-Odessa: "senseless & cowardly attack"
El Paso: "heinous & senseless act"
Santa Fe: "act of evil"
Sutherland Springs: "horrific act"

Because idiots like you keep voting for democrats........

Total number of mass public shootings in 2022....

12

Total murdered 74

Gun murder in democrat party controlled cities where they have had total control for decades, and in some cases over 100 years.....

19,000

Democrats and their policies are the problem...not American gun owners.

 

[HeyNorm]

Are you asking me how I know someone didn’t kill BEFORE they killed? Think about it carefully.

The thread is about guns. You realize people kill without guns, right?

You are a special kind of stupid.

 

[easyt65]

Now conservatives are going to play dumb about whether the guy was transgender or not transgender.

Who cares if the sick bastard who shot and killed 9 people, including kids, is a heterosexual, homosexual, Metrosexual, transgender, LGBTQ, etc...Red city, Blue city...?!

Can we at least wait until the bodies are cold before trying to engage in political finger-pointing?!