Should Churches be forced to accomodate for homosexual weddings?

[mdk]

Despite realizing that is way beyond your abilities to do so, care to explain what I'm wrong about?

What is it you find to be a "debunked talking point"?

Wondering that myself. I'm not sure how it can be a talking point, as this issue rarely comes up.

Marriage should be handled as any other contract, and infer no special rights to participants.

Though I do admire and support the spirit of getting the government out of the marriage business altogether it really isn't going to happen any time soon. In fact, the most socially conservatives are not even pushing seriously for that to come to pass. Until the government is removed from marriage; which I don't see ever happening, then marriage access and the rights entailed with it should be granted to same sex couples.

Agreed. But I think it's important to recognize that it's a "hack" to cover up otherwise bad government. We do that far too often - legislating ever more bad law to cover up the ill effects of earlier missteps.

I am willing to bet the vast and overwhelming majority of people still support all the perks, rights, and goodies the government bestows on married couples. The rub is that they still want these perks for themselves while denying them to other married couples they deem unworthy.

I am not sure how one can reconcile the postion of wanting the government out of marriage all the while accepting the same perks, rights, and benefits that the government bestows on THEIR marriage. If these people truly wanted the government out of marriage they wouldn't accept these perks and tax breaks in the first place.

Most of them don't. I don't often here this point made by conservatives. Conservatives like their government interference as much as liberals. They just want it to 'interfere different'.

And that is the crux of the problem when it comes to an intrusive and bloated government. Each side supports a bloated government when it fits their agenda and than rails aganist it when it doesn't. It is maddening. I really do not see the government ever getting out marriage.

 

[Syriusly]

Saying marriage is between one man and one woman is legally incorrect. It's not wrong since the basics of right and wrong still apply. A legal edict cannot change wrong to right.

The basics of right and wrong....according to who?

(Appeal to Authority in 3....2.....1.....)

According to normal people. What happens when people can decide for themselves what right and wrong are. Then decide that burning gays alive is the right thing to do? Would that make it right? In Iran the law is that gays should be hanged. Is that right because it's lawful? Of course not. Legalizing same sex marriage is lawful. Not right.

And of course that is your opinion.

In my opinion- the opinion of a man married to his wife for over 20 years- it is right for same gender couples to be treated just like my wife and I.

Treating people equally- that is right.

Equal protection is a requirement of the Constitution. But the violation of equality here happens before 'gay' marriage comes into the picture. The reason gays want government to recognize their marriages is because of the special privileges we grant to married people - and that's the problem. If married people were treated the same as unmarried people, it wouldn't matter whether their marriages was "ordained" by the state or not. Indeed, we could simply keep government out of the marriage business altogether. Let people decide for themselves what "marriage" means.

The reason homosexuals want government to recognize their marriage is for the same reason as my wife and I wanted the government to recognize our marriage- because that is how we become legally married.

My wife and I didn't marry for some nebulous 'government perks'- we married to legally commit to be each others partners for the rest of our lives- and in our society- that is how couples make that legal commitment.

I kind of laugh about this whole concept of 'legal perks'- since there have been at least 2 years we have paid more income taxes since we are married. Yes- if I get hit by a bus, marriage means my wife automatically has the authority to make medical decisions on my behalf and visit me in the hospital. And if I die, she gets social security survivor benefits, and inherits our mutual estate without any inheritance tax- but to tell you the truth- we didn't get married just so we have less inheritance tax when one of us dies.

 

[Syriusly]

Saying marriage is between one man and one woman is legally incorrect. It's not wrong since the basics of right and wrong still apply. A legal edict cannot change wrong to right.

The basics of right and wrong....according to who?

(Appeal to Authority in 3....2.....1.....)

According to normal people. What happens when people can decide for themselves what right and wrong are. Then decide that burning gays alive is the right thing to do? Would that make it right? In Iran the law is that gays should be hanged. Is that right because it's lawful? Of course not. Legalizing same sex marriage is lawful. Not right.

And of course that is your opinion.

In my opinion- the opinion of a man married to his wife for over 20 years- it is right for same gender couples to be treated just like my wife and I.

Treating people equally- that is right.

Another far left talking point based on propaganda and not in reality.

Troll.

 

[Kosh]

Saying marriage is between one man and one woman is legally incorrect. It's not wrong since the basics of right and wrong still apply. A legal edict cannot change wrong to right.

The basics of right and wrong....according to who?

(Appeal to Authority in 3....2.....1.....)

According to normal people. What happens when people can decide for themselves what right and wrong are. Then decide that burning gays alive is the right thing to do? Would that make it right? In Iran the law is that gays should be hanged. Is that right because it's lawful? Of course not. Legalizing same sex marriage is lawful. Not right.

And of course that is your opinion.

In my opinion- the opinion of a man married to his wife for over 20 years- it is right for same gender couples to be treated just like my wife and I.

Treating people equally- that is right.

Another far left talking point based on propaganda and not in reality.

Troll.

Yes you are! A far left one at that!

 

[Syriusly]

The basics of right and wrong....according to who?

(Appeal to Authority in 3....2.....1.....)

According to normal people. What happens when people can decide for themselves what right and wrong are. Then decide that burning gays alive is the right thing to do? Would that make it right? In Iran the law is that gays should be hanged. Is that right because it's lawful? Of course not. Legalizing same sex marriage is lawful. Not right.

And of course that is your opinion.

In my opinion- the opinion of a man married to his wife for over 20 years- it is right for same gender couples to be treated just like my wife and I.

Treating people equally- that is right.

Another far left talking point based on propaganda and not in reality.

Troll.

Yes you are! A far left one at that!

Troll.

 

[Kosh]

According to normal people. What happens when people can decide for themselves what right and wrong are. Then decide that burning gays alive is the right thing to do? Would that make it right? In Iran the law is that gays should be hanged. Is that right because it's lawful? Of course not. Legalizing same sex marriage is lawful. Not right.

And of course that is your opinion.

In my opinion- the opinion of a man married to his wife for over 20 years- it is right for same gender couples to be treated just like my wife and I.

Treating people equally- that is right.

Another far left talking point based on propaganda and not in reality.

Troll.

Yes you are! A far left one at that!

Troll.

Yes commonly used by the far left when they get called out on posting their far left propaganda!

 

[Syriusly]

And of course that is your opinion.

In my opinion- the opinion of a man married to his wife for over 20 years- it is right for same gender couples to be treated just like my wife and I.

Treating people equally- that is right.

Another far left talking point based on propaganda and not in reality.

Troll.

Yes you are! A far left one at that!

Troll.

Yes commonly used by the far left when they get called out on posting their far left propaganda!

Troll.

 

[Kosh]

Another far left talking point based on propaganda and not in reality.

Troll.

Yes you are! A far left one at that!

Troll.

Yes commonly used by the far left when they get called out on posting their far left propaganda!

Troll.

Yes I know when you called out for pushing an agenda..

Yes punish those churches it will make you feel so much better, go for that revenge..

 

[Silhouette]

The reason homosexuals want government to recognize their marriage is for the same reason as my wife and I wanted the government to recognize our marriage- because that is how we become legally married.

My wife and I didn't marry for some nebulous 'government perks'- we married to legally commit to be each others partners for the rest of our lives- and in our society- that is how couples make that legal commitment....And if I die, she gets social security survivor benefits, and inherits our mutual estate without any inheritance tax- but to tell you the truth- we didn't get married just so we have less inheritance tax when one of us dies.

So sign a contract with your female friend (not wife, never can be) where she is on a trust with you and has power of attorney and visitation rights. But don't call what you do marriage. I know why y'all want to be "married"...so adoption agencies can't turn you down. You already have all the legal tools you need in order to achieve all your goals without trying to force the state to incentivize homes where one blood parent is missing 100% of the time, or where the complimentary gender is missing 100% of the time so children in those homes grow up stunted socially and otherwise. You just want child-raising rights from adoption agencies. And that isn't in the best interest of children. So you cannot be married. Children trump gays.

 

[bendog]

The reason homosexuals want government to recognize their marriage is for the same reason as my wife and I wanted the government to recognize our marriage- because that is how we become legally married.

My wife and I didn't marry for some nebulous 'government perks'- we married to legally commit to be each others partners for the rest of our lives- and in our society- that is how couples make that legal commitment....And if I die, she gets social security survivor benefits, and inherits our mutual estate without any inheritance tax- but to tell you the truth- we didn't get married just so we have less inheritance tax when one of us dies.

So sign a contract with your female friend (not wife, never can be) where she is on a trust with you and has power of attorney and visitation rights. But don't call what you do marriage. I know why y'all want to be "married"...so adoption agencies can't turn you down. You already have all the legal tools you need in order to achieve all your goals without trying to force the state to incentivize homes where one blood parent is missing 100% of the time, or where the complimentary gender is missing 100% of the time so children in those homes grow up stunted socially and otherwise. You just want child-raising rights from adoption agencies. And that isn't in the best interest of children. So you cannot be married. Children trump gays.

bullshite

 

[Syriusly]

The reason homosexuals want government to recognize their marriage is for the same reason as my wife and I wanted the government to recognize our marriage- because that is how we become legally married.

My wife and I didn't marry for some nebulous 'government perks'- we married to legally commit to be each others partners for the rest of our lives- and in our society- that is how couples make that legal commitment....And if I die, she gets social security survivor benefits, and inherits our mutual estate without any inheritance tax- but to tell you the truth- we didn't get married just so we have less inheritance tax when one of us dies.

So sign a contract with your female friend (not wife, never can be) where she is on a trust with you and has power of attorney and visitation rights. But don't call what you do marriage. I know why y'all want to be "married"...so adoption agencies can't turn you down. You already have all the legal tools you need in order to achieve all your goals without trying to force the state to incentivize homes where one blood parent is missing 100% of the time, or where the complimentary gender is missing 100% of the time so children in those homes grow up stunted socially and otherwise. You just want child-raising rights from adoption agencies. And that isn't in the best interest of children. So you cannot be married. Children trump gays.

What are you babbling about now?

My wife and I have been married- legally- for over 20 years. I don't need to enter any trust with her(though I could for some purposes) because as a married couple we have automatic legal guardianship for each other.

Why wouldn't we call our marriage marriage? The minister who married us, and our families and friends who witnessed it, and the license we filed with city hall all would say you are just full of BS.

And I am not brave enough for adoption- we are lucky enough to have had a wonderful child the biological way together- but I have tremendous admiration for any person- or couple who have the courage and love necessary to adopt children into their families- regardless of their sexual orientation.

Oh and in my state- homosexuals same gender couples have been adopting children for over 20 years. Preventing same gender marriage just ensures that those adopted children won't have married parents.

Which of course is what you want.

 

[Syriusly]

Troll.

Yes you are! A far left one at that!

Troll.

Yes commonly used by the far left when they get called out on posting their far left propaganda!

Troll.

Yes I know when you called out for pushing an agenda..

Yes punish those churches it will make you feel so much better, go for that revenge..

Troll.

 

[Silhouette]

So sign a contract with your female friend (not wife, never can be) where she is on a trust with you and has power of attorney and visitation rights. But don't call what you do marriage. I know why y'all want to be "married"...so adoption agencies can't turn you down. You already have all the legal tools you need in order to achieve all your goals without trying to force the state to incentivize homes where one blood parent is missing 100% of the time, or where the complimentary gender is missing 100% of the time so children in those homes grow up stunted socially and otherwise. You just want child-raising rights from adoption agencies. And that isn't in the best interest of children. So you cannot be married. Children trump gays.

What are you babbling about now?

My wife and I have been married- legally- for over 20 years. I don't need to enter any trust with her(though I could for some purposes) because as a married couple we have automatic legal guardianship for each other.

Just because something wrong and illegal was forced upon the governed, does not mean they should accept it one day further or promote it into the future...

And speaking of futures with respect to two genders playing at "mom and dad" to untold future generations...here's a glimpse into that future as insitutionalized (not a random occurance denounced by the general culture, but instead a sanctioned occurance embraced by the LGBT culture)

The lesbian parents of an 11-year-old boy who is undergoing the process of becoming a girl last night defended the decision, claiming it was better for a child to have a sex change when young....Thomas Lobel, who now calls himself Tammy, is undergoing controversial hormone blocking treatment in Berkeley, California to stop him going through puberty as a boy...At age seven, after threatening genital mutilation on himself, psychiatrists diagnosed Thomas with gender identity disorder. By the age of eight, he began transitioning. ...The hormone-suppressant, implanted in his upper left arm, will postpone the 11-year-old developing broad shoulders, deep voice and facial hair. The California boy 11 who is undergoing hormone blocking treatment Daily Mail Online

Just after his first 6 formative years, this boy raised by two lesbians suddenly wants to femalize himself by genital mutilation. "Gender identity disorder" could also be called "my gender doesn't matter disorder"...

 

[Syriusly]

So sign a contract with your female friend (not wife, never can be) where she is on a trust with you and has power of attorney and visitation rights. But don't call what you do marriage. I know why y'all want to be "married"...so adoption agencies can't turn you down. You already have all the legal tools you need in order to achieve all your goals without trying to force the state to incentivize homes where one blood parent is missing 100% of the time, or where the complimentary gender is missing 100% of the time so children in those homes grow up stunted socially and otherwise. You just want child-raising rights from adoption agencies. And that isn't in the best interest of children. So you cannot be married. Children trump gays.

What are you babbling about now?

My wife and I have been married- legally- for over 20 years. I don't need to enter any trust with her(though I could for some purposes) because as a married couple we have automatic legal guardianship for each other.

Just because something wrong and illegal was forced upon the governed, does not mean they should accept it one day further or promote it into the future.....

You are babbling more and more. What you posted has nothing to do with my post.

Just pure babble.

 

[Kosh]

Yes you are! A far left one at that!

Troll.

Yes commonly used by the far left when they get called out on posting their far left propaganda!

Troll.

Yes I know when you called out for pushing an agenda..

Yes punish those churches it will make you feel so much better, go for that revenge..

Troll.

Yes punish those churches!

 

[Where_r_my_Keys]

And what possible relevance does NAMBLA have with [homosexuals] ... ?

That would be: The Homosexuals...

So the legal institution of gay marriage is....

Marriage is the joining of One Man and One Woman!

Maybe of you say it a dozen more times it will become reality.

Only if he clicks his heels three times...

Oh now THAT is a lovely way to concede!

Noted and accepted.

 

[Where_r_my_Keys]

Saying marriage is between one man and one woman is legally incorrect. It's not wrong since the basics of right and wrong still apply. A legal edict cannot change wrong to right.

The basics of right and wrong....according to who?

(Appeal to Authority in 3....2.....1.....)

According to normal people. What happens when people can decide for themselves what right and wrong are. Then decide that burning gays alive is the right thing to do? Would that make it right? In Iran the law is that gays should be hanged. Is that right because it's lawful? Of course not. Legalizing same sex marriage is lawful. Not right.

'Normal people' according to who? See, defining a subjective term with another subjective term is just a delaying tactic. You'll eventually have to cite a source that isn't purely speculative.

And given that a strong majority of the nation supports gay marriage by margins of between 12 and 19 points, you may want to be careful how you subjectively define 'normal people'.

There is nothing subjective about normality... as that is established by no less an authority than Nature itself; who designed the human species, providing very specific and clearly defined genders, for very specifc and clearly defined purposes... those who comport themselves within that STANDARD, are: NORMAL.

Those who do NOT comport themselves within that STANDARD, thus who DEVIATE from that STANDARD, are: DEVIANTS, OKA: ABNORMAL.

There could be nothing neither LESS SUBJECTIVE, nor MORE OBJECTIVE than that.

But how cool is it that the Relativist claims that up and down, right is wrong and light is darkness?

It's as if they have absolutely NO CONTROL over their own minds. This is what science has come to understand as: DELUSION. It is a perversion of the human intellect... which the ancients referred to as EVIL.

For the sake of the Intellectually Less Fortune, I should simply note that THAT: IS BAD!

 

[Syriusly]

Troll.

Yes commonly used by the far left when they get called out on posting their far left propaganda!

Troll.

Yes I know when you called out for pushing an agenda..

Yes punish those churches it will make you feel so much better, go for that revenge..

Troll.

Yes punish those churches!

Troll.

 

[Kosh]

Yes commonly used by the far left when they get called out on posting their far left propaganda!

Troll.

Yes I know when you called out for pushing an agenda..

Yes punish those churches it will make you feel so much better, go for that revenge..

Troll.

Yes punish those churches!

Troll.

Yes we know you far left posters are trolls.

 

[Syriusly]

Saying marriage is between one man and one woman is legally incorrect. It's not wrong since the basics of right and wrong still apply. A legal edict cannot change wrong to right.

The basics of right and wrong....according to who?

(Appeal to Authority in 3....2.....1.....)

According to normal people. What happens when people can decide for themselves what right and wrong are. Then decide that burning gays alive is the right thing to do? Would that make it right? In Iran the law is that gays should be hanged. Is that right because it's lawful? Of course not. Legalizing same sex marriage is lawful. Not right.

'Normal people' according to who? See, defining a subjective term with another subjective term is just a delaying tactic. You'll eventually have to cite a source that isn't purely speculative.

And given that a strong majority of the nation supports gay marriage by margins of between 12 and 19 points, you may want to be careful how you subjectively define 'normal people'.

There is nothing subjective about normality... as that is established by no less an authority than Nature itself; !

There is something subjective about how humans treat 'normality'- and how they treat those who they view as 'not normal'.

You would prefer that those you consider 'not normal' be treated as second class citizens.

I would prefer we treat humans equally.